[Hondaracer]

Hey, cause we're all like minded when it comes to politics eh?

:troll:

Yourrrrrrr contenderssssssssss:

The always abrasive, socially inept leader of the NDPPPPPPPP

JOHHNNNNNN HORGANNNNNN!

https://i.cbc.ca/1.3471994.1458351185!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_620/john-horgan.jpg

And in this corner... she'll sell your kids out for a barrel of oil, it's CHRISTYYYYYY CLARKKKKKK!

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1090489/images/o-CHRISTY-CLARK-facebook.jpg

Dont see the NDP taking over unless people actually vote on the issues they've been complaining about for the past 10 years. IE. Housing affordability, School funding, Jobs, the 'LNG' pipe dream etc.

With some similarities to the American election the opposition in the NDP was finally in a position to make a move and with a solid platform should have easily been able to sway the opinion of the BC voter into getting rid of the liberal party. However, i think, once again, they've put an abrasive, unperson-able, leader in place and have produced little substance in terms of a plan to combat the Lib's heavy last minute vote buying in the forms of MSP cuts, Balanced budgets, housing action plans, Ride sharing initiatives, etc. etc.

In so many recent interviews I've heard the members of the opposition simply twist words into nothing of substance for come-backs when asked how their plan would differ in the policies in place by the libs. When asked about their budget they simply put it off until the liberals release their own then restructure their plan as to look stronger based on the already public liberal plan.

Dont see Crusty losing this one.

[murd0c]

John who?

ya its going to be bad this year, I hate that crusty bitch but at least we know what we get from her unlike the NDP which is beyond fucking up Alberta since they were elected.

[Bender Unit]

We hate Crusty, get no choice but to vote for her party....again.

[MarkyMark]

The NDP should just go crazy with the lies if they want any chance of winning. Tell everyone they get a free house if they vote for them, people are that dumb. Shit, most people forget about the housing crisis when Uber is dangled in front of their face.

[donk.]

http://www.ufunk.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/banksy-lies-politics.jpg

[Armind]

What's that? Uber?

[RRxtar]

Liberals by a landslide this time. Not because they are the good choice, but because there isnt any other choice. The only people voting NDP are going to be public union workers.

And social media will be blowing up with anti Liberal nonsense like the anti Conservative and anti Trump campaigns from the ADD clickbait millenials

[CRS]

Bring Campbell back!!!

[Teriyaki]

All i gotta say is. NDP got triggered. First trap, and boom, wasn't even a contest.

[nah]

Clark, Horgan face political showdown over $15 minimum wage | The Province (http://theprovince.com/news/politics/clark-horgan-face-political-showdown-over-15-minimum-wage)

$15 minimum wage? Fuck that...things are expensive as is.

[Jmac]

John who?

ya its going to be bad this year, I hate that crusty bitch but at least we know what we get from her unlike the NDP which is beyond fucking up Alberta since they were elected.
Please explain how they're fucking up Alberta. No one seems to have an explanation beyond carbon taxes and RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE on my Facebook feed.

[unit]

i'm not voting for either. hearing the parties do nothing but attack each other just disgusts me as a voter

[6o4__boi]

Libs pretty much guaranteed to win this one

No idea what the fuck NDP is doing

[carisear]

liberals have been in power too long, but the ndp is simply not a viable alternative.

when even a union (ironworkers) support the liberals, you know the ndp is a joke.

[Durrann]

uber uber uber!!

[Bouncing Bettys]

There are far too many people, myself included, who remember the NDP of the 90's and will never give them a chance. Their nearsightedness in siding with a certain NIMBY/Environmentalist group, in a dirty attempt to protect a park, actually caused its rapid degradation, which in turn harmed a community of properties, my family's included. For this, I will never vote for them.

They should just dissolve the party. Maybe the moderates of the party can join with defectors of the Liberals and form a new party while the far lefties can join the Greens.

[noclue]

I think if the NDP went all out trump style populist and declare war on foreigners they will have a chance. Raising foreign tax to 30%+ or ban real estate all together. I suspect there are a lot of closet anti-foreigners in BC.

[Liquid_o2]

Can't vote for Clark again... don't know what to do.

Horgan is a terrible choice as leader. NDP should have ran David Eby, the guy would have won in a landslide. Why can't the NDP ever have a personable and well liked leader? Adrian Dix? You can hear that British Columbian's want change, but as usual, there is nothing on offer.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Never voting for liberals again even if I know my vote is wasted.

[godwin]

Because NDP has 2 factions.. 1 progressive / environmental, the other old labour, ie nurses, school workers, taxis etc. Both factions keep fighting (while the world moves on).. Take a look at the policy difference between Vancouver and Burnaby especially in housing. One marginally care, the other just razes all the low cost rental stock.

Oh then you have a sub section that just like fighting loosing battles eg the Vision school board.

You want Eby on board? Why not sign up for a NDP membership and vote him in? You even get a tax write off.

You don't get to pick unicorn if the menu only has beef and fish and you gave up your right to craft the menu.

Can't vote for Clark again... don't know what to do.

Horgan is a terrible choice as leader. NDP should have ran David Eby, the guy would have won in a landslide. Why can't the NDP ever have a personable and well liked leader? Adrian Dix? You can hear that British Columbian's want change, but as usual, there is nothing on offer.

[Hondaracer]

Eby? ewwww...

Can't stand the guy, Horgan is abrasive but at least has leadership qualities

[N.V.M.]

Boobs!

[Hondaracer]

My offer of a 3-some to Christy Clark and Dianne Watts still stands

[CRS]

My offer of a 3-some to Christy Clark and Dianne Watts still stands

https://media.giphy.com/media/yidUzEyhlYTT1oxEME/giphy.gif

[Bouncing Bettys]

I've never understood Christy's Good Guy Chucky Doll haircut.

[DragonChi]

green party!

[iwantaskyline]

Donors to Christy Clark's Liberals got $758 million in B.C. contracts | National Observer (http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/03/07/news/new-revelations-about-christy-clarks-donors)

Donors to Christy Clark's Liberals got $758 million in B.C. contracts

[carisear]

^^ National Observer ... Dogwood Initiative ...


Even vanshittybuzz/daily hive isn't as bad as them, and that's saying something.

[Mr.HappySilp]

https://youtu.be/1jH-8mybdMg

There is a level one video as well

[tiger_handheld]

why is there no conservative like the feds.

what happens if majority of of spoil the ballot?

[Tapioca]

The BC Liberal party is already a centre-right party that has stayed away from social conservatism.

The BC Liberals have brought in low personal and corporate taxes, privatization, and user fees. I don't know how much more conservative you could get, really.

[Liquid_o2]

Yah the BC Liberals are Conservative and the NDP is Liberal.

[european]

Hey hey! This is sweet that there is a provincial elections thread going already.

My lady friend is trying to run for the Surrey-Guildford riding for the Green Party. She's going against the "there's no real choice" and "they're all the same" attitudes.

She needs to collect 100 nomination signatures so that her name can be on the ballot and I'm trying to help her as much as I can. If anyone in the Surrey-Guildford riding would like to provide a signature, PM me and we can come to your place, takes like 30 seconds to fill a name and address. It's just a nomination, this doesn't mean you are voting for her or the party.

She was also recently in the Surrey Leader newspaper. Pretty cool!

[Jmac]

It's primarily a Victoria audience, so Green/NDP hotbed, but was a little surprised at CHEK's poll today showing 38% would vote Green, 41% NDP, 21% Liberal, 0% Conservative.

[RRxtar]

There technically is a BC Conservative party. Its occasionally built a small amount of momentum but has been fairly irrelevant for the last couple of elections. I don't even think they have a leader right now.

The lineage of the center right leaning party in BC leads right to the liberals tho. The Conservative party was strong in the first half of the 1900s, and was in a coalition with the Liberals for a while. WAC Bennett was a strong Conservative in the 40s, and switched to the Social Credit in the 50s, changed the platform to a conservative one, and the Social Credit rand the province pretty well all the way up until the late 80s when party infighting made a bunch of members move over to the Liberals. The party coming unglued is essentially the reason the NDP snuck into power in the 90s. The Liberals have assumed the conservative center right platform since.

[yray]

john should dress up as hulk hogan.... he might win the election

[mikemhg]

NDP are apparently leading the polls. But polls are just that, polls. I was reading about the idea of the NDP/Green merger for this election, might not be a bad idea, but it'll never happen.

How can anyone support Christy Clark? The RCMP are literally investigating her party for corruption for god sakes, it's time for these clowns to go, it's been 3 decades now. I don't care if NDP win and are out in 4 years, we need a change.

[godwin]

Vote just for the sake of change has worked swimmingly for the Americans this election cycle *sarcasm* I haven't seen any NDP position on transit timeline etc in light of the recent budget. All their rhetoric is against what Liberal does but do they offer any solutions? Not much. Useful ones? Nada.

Liberal only have been in power for 2 decades not 3.

NDP are apparently leading the polls. But polls are just that, polls. I was reading about the idea of the NDP/Green merger for this election, might not be a bad idea, but it'll never happen.

How can anyone support Christy Clark? The RCMP are literally investigating her party for corruption for god sakes, it's time for these clowns to go, it's been 3 decades now. I don't care if NDP win and are out in 4 years, we need a change.

[Ch28]

https://www.pressprogress.ca/here_are_41_of_the_sketchiest_things_that_happened _during_christy_clark_time_as_premier_of_bc

Does BC Premier Christy Clark have a sketchy reputation?

The Victoria Times-Colonist's editorial board recently suggested Clark's "ethical standards" do not reflect "the values British Columbians should expect from political parties."

Meanwhile, the Globe and Mail's editorial board said Clark's BC Liberal government is "addicted to money" and added that "the perception that corporate money is influencing government decisions is impossible to avoid."
From sketchy donations to dodgy expenses to unethical conduct to straight-up scandals, here are 41 times Clark's BC Liberal government showed that after all these years in power, they might not have a lot of integrity:

1) Alleging her rivals hacked her party's website with no evidence
2) Making tens of thousands with disabilities pay $579 more for bus passes
3) Picking an ex-Fraser Institute director to implement BC's climate change plan
4) Getting her climate change plan ripped apart by her own experts
5) Getting lobbied more than 10,000 times by her own oil and gas donors
6) Skipping an important vote on transgender rights to attend a partisan fundraiser
7) All the donations from other provinces
8) All the donations from other countries
9) All the donors getting public sector contracts
10) Selling public land to BC Liberal donors for a cheap price
11) Spending millions on partisan ads
12) Hiring a staffer facing criminal charges
13) Rehiring the same staffer facing criminal charges
14) Spending more than $500,000 on private flights
15) Billing taxpayers for a private flight to a fundraising dinner
16) Triple-deleting all those emails
17) Billing taxpayers $3,000 for dinner
18) Leaking a "secret strategy document"
19) Taking salary top ups from the BC Liberal Party
20) Yogagate
21) Spending nearly $1 million on government photos
22) That time a Liberal MLA claimed the LGBT community is 'dominating' Christians
23) Sending a staffer to spy on an NDP meeting with youth
24) Insulting whistle-blowers
25) Spending $1 million to upgrade the church Clark goes to
26) Promoting a company Clark once chaired
27) Allegedly interfering in a local election to help her brother
28) Not telling the truth about BC's job creation numbers
29) Getting investigated by Elections BC over donations from lobbyists
30) Getting investigated by the RCMP for those same reimbursements
31) Giving a $39 million mortgage to a condo developer
32) Releasing a jobs ad full of false claims
33) Declaring victory after losing a Supreme Court battle to avoid investing in schools
34) Apologizing to "ethnic" voters
35) Mysteriously firing health researchers
36) Making stuff up about the government's record
37) Getting sued because of partisan advertising
38) Universities hiring Liberal lobbyists to lobby the BC Liberal government
39) Approving a polluted-soil dump upstream from 12,000 people
40) Taking millions from developers
41) All those cash-for-access scandals

As the Globe and Mail's editorial board recently described this "world-class conflict-of-interest":
It's "a situation where companies seeking government contracts, approvals or tax breaks can give unlimited sums of money to the governing party. Lobbyists in the province have told The Globe and Mail they feel they need to donate, or their entreaties on behalf of their clients will be ignored."
Mind you, most of this stuff wouldn't fly in virtually any other Canadian province - only in Christy Clark's British Columbia.

Details in the link

[mikemhg]

Vote just for the sake of change has worked swimmingly for the Americans this election cycle *sarcasm* I haven't seen any NDP position on transit timeline etc in light of the recent budget. All their rhetoric is against what Liberal does but do they offer any solutions? Not much. Useful ones? Nada.

Liberal only have been in power for 2 decades not 3.

No you're right, not sure why I said 3 decades when Campbell won back in '01.

Are you really comparing voting out the Liberals for change, to Donald Trump in the US? Come on, that's a false equivalency if I've ever seen one. I would compare this more to the 2008 election, if anything else.

[Jmac]

3) Picking an ex-Fraser Institute director to implement BC's climate change plan
A big part of BC's climate change plan was taking public funds out of the public sector and giving it to private companies. All PSOs in BC are required to pay $30/tCO2eq which went into the Pacific Carbon Trust, which then awarded those public funds to private companies for carbon reduction projects.

They've since changed it so public sector organizations can apply to the trust for funding those projects, but most money still goes to the private sector.

[MrPhreak]

Yah the BC Liberals are Conservative and the NDP is Liberal.

The NDP is the same NDP no matter where they go.... they are actually the only party that is fully provincially and federally integrated.

Basically they appeal to the entitled, eventually get in, then utterly ruin the province. Then people remember for about 15~20 years, and once the new entitled generation rises, rinse and repeat.

Alberta is about to learn the hard way how much damage they can do... the projected debt by the next election is 71 Billion dollars. More than BC! Pretty bad considering AB had essentially no debt before they got in less than a year ago, lol.

I figure BC has at least one or two more elections to hold them off... but a lot of self righteous people live here that refuse to work for a living want you and I to be as miserable as they are.


NDP are apparently leading the polls. But polls are just that, polls. I was reading about the idea of the NDP/Green merger for this election, might not be a bad idea, but it'll never happen.

How can anyone support Christy Clark? The RCMP are literally investigating her party for corruption for god sakes, it's time for these clowns to go, it's been 3 decades now. I don't care if NDP win and are out in 4 years, we need a change.

Meh, the stuff against Clark is pretty weak sauce... oh noes, somebody donated money and then was later reimbursed completely independently of any knowledge of the party. How about when Glen Clark (NDP) was caught running an underground casino? Or when Mike Harcourt (NDP) was secretly funneling money that should have been going to charity from Bingo revenues. Now those were scandals worth talking about!

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. Back in the late 90's the economy was in shambles here after several terms of NDP leadership, I was personally just getting into the work force and the competition for even the shitty jobs was brutal. The Liberals got in, and now BC has one of the strongest economies in Canada.

Even if we take your assumption at facae value that Clark is morally corrupt... so what? They are providing decent economic leadership for the province; don't rock the boat with the justification that capsizing it is somehow better.

[Jmac]

Well crap... I haven't been a BC resident for 6 months yet so that makes me intelligible to vote



The NDP is the same NDP no matter where they go.... they are actually the only party that is fully provincially and federally integrated.

Basically they appeal to the entitled, eventually get in, then utterly ruin the province. Then people remember for about 15~20 years, and once the new entitled generation rises, rinse and repeat.

Alberta is about to learn the hard way how much damage they can do... the projected debt by the next election is 71 Billion dollars. More than BC! Pretty bad considering AB had essentially no debt before they got in less than a year ago, lol.

I figure BC has at least one or two more elections to hold them off... but a lot of self righteous people live here that refuse to work for a living want you and I to be as miserable as they are.
Clearly has nothing to do with global economics :pokerface:

[DragonChi]

Liberals using taxpayer money to pay for their campaigning getting sued.

B.C. government sued over use of taxpayer-funded advertising - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-government-sued-over-use-of-taxpayer-funded-advertising-1.4032946)

[RRxtar]

Clearly has nothing to do with global economics :pokerface:
the same people who will say the Liberals success is only due to global economics will also be the first ones to shout about how bad the canadian economy was during the conservative era and disregard global economics in that argument.

[godwin]

Having started tech businesses in BC (NDP) then in Ontario (Conservatives) in the 90s. Honestly I won't vote for BC NDP in the spring just because I don't think the party has changed much since then. After 20 years, NDP is still too focused on resource based labour movement. However the main drivers in BC is no longer a resource economy, guess why we have to ship raw logs to China? Because if we don't, someone else would (Finland via rail too). I once had a NDP minister suggested to me that programmers should unionize. Granted Indian companies like Infosys have been exploiting the US H1B program since its inception, there has got to be another solution other than the ol' "let's unionize" hammer. What I don't like about NDP, if you are not in their clique or interest area, dont expect any help.

Some people say C. Clark made a bad bet on LNG. I thought at least she made a bet, instead of twiddling her thumbs. I still see it as a good long term play instead of shipping syncrude.

As for "It is time for a change" guess who has famously made "What do you have to lose (https://goo.gl/NpTjh8)?" a meme?

So far I haven't seen any policy from NDP that would make me say hey they have some good ideas, other than protecting their own dwindling base.

Green Party + NDP. Think about it, we have 1 side of the party that say no logging, no resource extraction (green side).. then you have the logger, truckers, pipers etc all types of union saying their members' jobs are gone. That's just a non starter.

As for the ad thing, successive governments both provincial and federal had done it.. First it was Chretian's Quebec thing, then Steve Harper, heck even NDP did it in the 90s, Christie Clarke complained when NDP was in power.

No you're right, not sure why I said 3 decades when Campbell won back in '01.

Are you really comparing voting out the Liberals for change, to Donald Trump in the US? Come on, that's a false equivalency if I've ever seen one. I would compare this more to the 2008 election, if anything else.

[Jmac]

China wants to use natural gas as a stepping stone to renewable. Massive market if we can start shipping LNG there.

[carisear]

I have an honest, not troll question for you guys.

Do people know that radical 'news' (and i use that term very generously) sites have almost zero journalistic value, and only serve to rile up their alt-left and alt-right audiences?

Sites like pressprogress, therebel, huffpost, breitbart ... and so many more ... their articles should be read simply as op ed's, and nothing more?

I cringe everytime i see a linked article on fb, with one word click-bait descriptions.

"Yep"
"Sad!"
"Owned"
"Boom"
"Lol!"

[Tapioca]

Narrow casting vs broadcasting.

There's no money left in balanced journalism. Postmedia just laid off another 50 staff today. The money is now in creating content that appeals to people's own biases and perspectives.

[godwin]

Debt is a nuanced subject. It really depends where the money is for, where it goes to / invested in. Honestly I rather all government borrow a crap ton of money now when the interest rate is at record low and pay off the all the existing debt which have higher interest rate and repair our infrastructure. So in that sense I can understand NDP's stance.

Rather than wait till everything is truly gridlocked to try to solve the problem.. Same for housing. Build social housing along the new LRT corridor. You automatically have guaranteed ridership and cost recovery for the LRT project.

Oh as for getting jealous about sitting government's ability to make ads.. note BC Liberals' and even Conservatives logos are neutral colored Red White and Blue.. it blends easily. Not a "Hey Look at me Orange.. we are not the Netherlands.



Alberta is about to learn the hard way how much damage they can do... the projected debt by the next election is 71 Billion dollars. More than BC! Pretty bad considering AB had essentially no debt before they got in less than a year ago, lol.

[godwin]

It is not just China.. China + Korea + Japan and now maybe India has formed a block to buy LNG contracts.

Geographically we have an advantage with LNG over the US because it is so cold up north we use much less energy to liquefy the gas, so potentially it can be cheaper.

It is a long term play.. most likely more than a life time of a politician.

China wants to use natural gas as a stepping stone to renewable. Massive market if we can start shipping LNG there.

[Ch28]

BC Liberals to return $93,000 in ?prohibited? indirect donations - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-liberals-to-return-93000-in-prohibited-indirect-donations/article34424319/)

Well, looks like the problem is solved.

[Hondaracer]

BC Liberals promise commuter discounts - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/04/09/bc-liberals-promise-commuter-discounts/)

Liberals to cap port Mann and golden ears tolls at $500 per year potentially saving daily users up to $1000 a year. That's huge.

Probably not enough for the The dummies who take patullo etc though since it's the single
Time fee of $3 they don't like lol :/

[Traum]

BC Liberals promise commuter discounts - NEWS 1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2017/04/09/bc-liberals-promise-commuter-discounts/)

Liberals to cap port Mann and golden ears tolls at $500 per year potentially saving daily users up to $1000 a year. That's huge.
/
As the NW councillor (or whatever his job is) said in the news, this is such a non-sensible policy though. The point of imposing bridge tolls is to introduce the user pays concept. Those who use the infrastructure a lot pays for their usage, and those who don't, well, don't! By setting an annual maximum, it just means that the shortfall of the operating (and construction) costs are going to fall back on the taxpayers, and that just completely goes against the user pays concept.

It is such a cheap trick in attempt to buy votes. Unfortunately, I think enough idiots will like it and support it.

[Ch28]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV-N9vlURuU

[Blueboy222]

Dark

https://youtu.be/TYmZeiLzQYE

[6o4__boi]

lol are election results up on playnow or betting sites?

[Armind]

NDP with $400 rebate for all renters... :considered:

[Traum]

lol are election results up on playnow or betting sites?
Nope. Still only showing just a bunch of Trump stuff and UK politics on Playnow.com.

I'm disappointed. Maybe they know the Libs are just going to cruise to another win?

[CRS]

Nope. Still only showing just a bunch of Trump stuff and UK politics on Playnow.com.

I'm disappointed. Maybe they know the Libs are just going to cruise to another win?

I don't think we can actually wager on our own elections.

I vaguely remember trying to bet on the federal election and BCLC couldn't do it because it's against some law.

[DragonChi]

Housing platforms of each party

https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/04/14/Easing-BC-Housing-Crunch/?PageSpeed=noscript

[Manic!]

NDP with $400 rebate for all renters... :considered:

Great now I can raise future rents by $33 a month. Also if parents charge there children rend will they get $400 a year?

[Teriyaki]

Great now I can raise future rents by $33 a month. Also if parents charge there children rend will they get $400 a year?

In before parents start charging their new borns "rent" and collecting the $400.

[Speed2K]

Yah the BC Liberals are Conservative and the NDP is Liberal.

Haha, no, the provincial NDP are not Liberal. SwiftRage

[DragonChi]

Election time is 3 weeks away. Driving around today I was thinking about each parties platforms.

Things that matter to me: Housing, reducing rush hour congestion, site c dam, a stance on monetary donations to political parties.

2017 British Columbia (http://www.icanparty.ca/en/bc-may-9th-2017/)

[Traum]

Came across these 2 Crusty attack ads just today, even though they've apparently been around for a while. I personally wouldn't try to interpret too much out of them, but at least I think they could be serve as a good joke:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l98jJrRR0ZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jH-8mybdMg

[Traum]

And if anyone cares, this is the News 1130 Leadership debate:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SYavgIdUDY

[european]

I watched that last night. I thought Dr. Andrew Weaver did a great job. It would have been nice to actually hear some of the things Horgan and Clark had to say but they kept on speaking over each other, it was a big turn off.

[Ch28]

It would have been nice to actually hear some of the things Horgan and Clark had to say but they kept on speaking over each other, it was a big turn off.

This is why you need a debate facilitator that is willing to step in and tell the other to shut up.

[adambomb]

NDP vows to immediately replace the Patullo Bridge, Build LRT in Surrey and Skytrain extension along Broadway, while removing all bridge tolls.

NDP vows to make student loans interest free, give a $1000 "congrats, you got a degree!" payment to students and the $400 renters gift.

Let's not forget $10/day daycare, $15 min wage, Double the budget of BC Arts Council. Along with the obvious increases to Teachers and Health Care workers.

I'll let anyone pick and choose which promises they agree with. My question is where does the money come from? Speculation tax and increases taxes on the wealthy? Possible increased BC Hydro and ICBC fees?

I get it that people feel Christy Clark and the BC Liberals are for sale to foreigners and corporations, but for the NDP to make promises and their plan to pay for these promises is just to increase taxes doesn't sit well with me.

Corporations are always looking for taxes breaks as incentives to do business in a particular city. Increasing their taxes will help drive them away. Remember the whole #savebcfilm movement a few years ago? What happened to that? Oh yeah, the gov't gave the film industry a tax break, BC film is now booming again. Except it recently lost the production of the series "Lucifer" to Los Angeles. Why? Because LA gave the series a tax break.

I wish Christy Clark and the BC Liberals weren't the better choice. But unfortunately it seems like they are. again.

:rant

[adambomb]

I think if the NDP went all out trump style populist and declare war on foreigners they will have a chance. Raising foreign tax to 30%+ or ban real estate all together. I suspect there are a lot of closet anti-foreigners in BC.


THIS! It worked for Trump. :fullofwin:

The NDP would have a fair shot at winning but its supporters would be branded as ignorant racists and anti-establishment goons, much like they are in the USA. I'm not sure how some life-long NDPers would feel about that, but there are lots of "anti-foreigner" citizens amongst the wealthy and middle class in BC. Following this mantra would for sure increase the amount of NDP supporters. FeelsGoodMan

[Traum]

NDP vows to immediately replace the Patullo Bridge, Build LRT in Surrey and Skytrain extension along Broadway, while removing all bridge tolls.

NDP vows to make student loans interest free, give a $1000 "congrats, you got a degree!" payment to students and the $400 renters gift.

Let's not forget $10/day daycare, $15 min wage, Double the budget of BC Arts Council. Along with the obvious increases to Teachers and Health Care workers.

I'll let anyone pick and choose which promises they agree with. My question is where does the money come from? Speculation tax and increases taxes on the wealthy? Possible increased BC Hydro and ICBC fees?

I get it that people feel Christy Clark and the BC Liberals are for sale to foreigners and corporations, but for the NDP to make promises and their plan to pay for these promises is just to increase taxes doesn't sit well with me.

Corporations are always looking for taxes breaks as incentives to do business in a particular city. Increasing their taxes will help drive them away. Remember the whole #savebcfilm movement a few years ago? What happened to that? Oh yeah, the gov't gave the film industry a tax break, BC film is now booming again. Except it recently lost the production of the series "Lucifer" to Los Angeles. Why? Because LA gave the series a tax break.

I wish Christy Clark and the BC Liberals weren't the better choice. But unfortunately it seems like they are. again.

:rant
I completely agree with you on all of your points -- except that Crusty and the Libs are the better choice here.

There is no doubt the NDP platform is unsustainably expensive. But is that necessary an unacceptable thing? As a province, we can take on a certain amount of debt. In this election's case, I think the more appropriate question to ask ourselves is -- is BC sustaining 4 year's worth of NDP deficit budget better or worse than having Crusty and the Libs to continue to pillage the lower and middle class' wealth and transferring them to the foreign "investors" and big corps? The beautiful numbers presented by the Libs are factual, but what lies beneath those facts are how the money came about -- it came from raiding crown corps' balance sheets, reducing some much needed social services, selling our province out to speculators and profiteers, etc. In the end, these aspects come back to bite our a$$es one way or another. The crown corp raiding means we are seeing massive Hydro and ICBC rate hikes. The social services reductions means our child poverty is serious, mental health patients not supported, and these in turn manifest themselves as troubled youth, drug abuse / OD crisis. Selling the province out can pad our short term balance sheets with nice, "comfortable" surpluses, but then they come back to haunt us as house affordability crisis and shxt tiny 400 sq ft "living spaces".

So I am going to urge you -- don't just look at the short term balance sheet. Look at something bigger, with a wider and longer term perspective.

I am normally right of center on the political spectrum, and that means I should be more of a Liberals supporter. But after 16 years of their shxt, I'd say the province has swung too far off to one side now.

[Hondaracer]

The problem with the NDP is that a lot of people still have the taste of 90's NDP in their mouth, much of which Horgan was involved in.

With the provincial liberals, and hell, even the federal liberals, I don't agree with a lot of what they do. I'm also more right wing and with the lack of a true Conservative party in BC the liberals are about as conservative as it gets here.

Didn't like truedeu and the libs getting into power, but let's face face, little to nothing has changed in the way my daily life goes. Things are pretty damn good imo.

That's the way I see the liberals as well. The cold hearted me only really cares about issues thay directly effect me. I don't have a big problem with tax increases to fight the drug problems, money going to social and mental health, hospitals, ER waits, infrastructure, etc. I do have a problem however with my tax dollars going into affordable child care, "affordable" housing in Vancouver, their student loan policy, etc.

Giving people money simple to pull a shroud over their eyes that they are doing "ok" or getting by isn't what any government should be doing. Vancouver is expensive, insanely expensive, and with a zero vacancy rate people are finding ways to be here because they want to. Empty homes and airBNB do not make up a large enough percentage to desimate the market, it's the people who have no business living in Vancouver being block heads thinking that they could not ever possibly live in cloverdale or Langley. When in reality, that change in scenery would probably increase their quality of living substantially.

With the liberals in power almost everyone I know has done quite well during their reign and continue to do well. Everyone has work, has money, many have homes and enjoy their current situation.

A lot of those same people lost jobs, lost companies, lost a hell of a lot of money and equity in their lives through the NDP in the 90's. Many of their current policies sound like they could have the same effect.

[adambomb]

I think the more appropriate question to ask ourselves is -- is BC sustaining 4 year's worth of NDP deficit budget better or worse than having Crusty and the Libs to continue to pillage the lower and middle class' wealth and transferring them to the foreign "investors" and big corps?

So I am going to urge you -- don't just look at the short term balance sheet. Look at something bigger, with a wider and longer term perspective.So you're suggesting we elect a gov't that will spend a massive amount of taxpayer dollars on services for all citizens while not concerning themselves of how they will recoup the money they've spent?

Isn't that like maxing out a credit card on car parts and ignoring how you will pay back the credit card company but atleast you have a nice looking car that makes you feel good emotionally, makes you feel like you've increased your social status and makes you feel like you are at par with other car enthusiasts on the road?

:considered:

[DragonChi]

Wow that Horgan guy is rude as hell. That debate reflected horribly for NDP.

I think what they NDP needs is a real economic plan. That's their biggest weakness. It comes off as wreckless spending.

[donk.]

The provincial election is a trick question.

[RRxtar]

The NDP loves telling everyone at every chance about the things they're going to spend money on, but continue to refuse to even broadly discuss where the money is coming from. Typical NDP.




Are they seriously leading the polls by a good margin or is that just the media running super inaccurate numbers?

[Traum]

So you're suggesting we elect a gov't that will spend a massive amount of taxpayer dollars on services for all citizens while not concerning themselves of how they will recoup the money they've spent?

Isn't that like maxing out a credit card on car parts and ignoring how you will pay back the credit card company but atleast you have a nice looking car that makes you feel good emotionally, makes you feel like you've increased your social status and makes you feel like you are at par with other car enthusiasts on the road?

:considered:
It is of course extremely important to have a way to fund the government services. At an initial level, that monetary source will be tax dollars. After that, it will be increased fees / taxes. And if that is still not enough, then it'll be debt financing.

I am not an expert on the provincial economy, so my best guess is just exactly that -- a guess. However, 2 things in particular strike me especially hard. BC has a very poor track record of child poverty, and the Ministry of Children and Family Development (MCFD) seems like a ministry that is completely messed up. Our province has been supporting the poorest children very poorly, and I can't shake the impression off that a good chunk of our homeless, drug / OD problem is a result of the poor child and family support. The province's poor mental health support also follows along the same vein.

It isn't like I am one of your bleeding heart social media SJW. It's just that as a pragmatic person, I think the province spending more on this kind of social services can result in both a better outcome for those in need of the service, as well as saving the taxpayers a few bucks in the long run. I know for a fact that the drug and OD crisis we are seeing is extremely taxing on our healthcare system, both in terms of financial and human resources required. If we can tackle the problem earlier and closer to the source, I'd expect to see some savings on the outcome side.

The other issue I have a beef with is education funding. I see education (esp for our children) as hugely important, and I think our current Liberals government has been a very poor steward on that front. It pisses me off every time when Crusty comes out to say they have pump $XXXX million dollars into some education program, how the overall education budget is growing (in absolute dollar terms) or how we can't sell out our children's future because to me, they are all lies. I don't see how the Libs have K-12 education in mind when they knowingly break their own education laws, loses at the Supreme Court, and still provoke our teachers to go on strike. I don't see how the Libs have higher ed in mind when the per capita funding for post secondary students have dropped by 20% since the Libs took office.

As a personal anecdote that I have mentioned quite a few times on various occassions, I was a beneficiary of the former NDP's tuition freeze scheme. I was paying $77 per credit hour for my ugrad degree in 2000, which in today's dollars is ~$105. And yet tuition today starts at $180 per credit hour, with 2nd - 4th year courses, or certain programs being even more expensive than that. I see post secondary students working far more PT hours during the post secondary career, often delaying their diplomas or degrees, but still winding up with higher tuition debts. I see post secondary institutions coming up with a myriad of creative (and sometimes not so desirable) solutions to keep the show running, often at the expense of local / Canadian students. These are not things I want to see! With the higher student debt situation, in particular, their stunted financial growth is indirectly hurting me as a taxpayer!

I have probably allowed this rant to go on for too long, but it really is how I feel. So to quickly answer your analogy, no, I don't think I am asking the province to max out the credit card so that we can have a nice looking Porsche to make me feel better emotionally. At the end of the day, I am still a selfish prick. It's just that I think we can all get to a better place if the province is willing to spend some money on certain much needed areas. Afterall, there has been a draught for 16 years. A little watering for 4 years might not be a bad thing.

[adambomb]

Wouldn't more progressive thinking be something like ensuring that families do not require social services. That families are able to provide themselves without the help of gov't funding? I'm not saying to completely abolish social services but ensure that men and women have gainful employment so they are able to provide for their families. The solution to that in my opinion is a healthy economy.

There will always be parents who are more concerned with their own well being instead of their own children's well being, regardless if they are wealthy or not. The ones who do need services the most are those children without adult guidance, who I feel are the most vulnerable. I feel services should be directed to those children first. I understand when a child turns 18, they are considered an adult and must look out for themselves. It may seem like a young age to cut services for a child but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. It is a never ending cycle that some members of a generation will have less benefits that others. It will never be avoided no matter how much money is invested in the issue. The mental health support may be poor, but it is improving. I feel this way because I work directly with those living with mental illness.

If feel there is a larger percentage of population in BC that look forward to having employment so they can take care of themselves instead waiting for the gov't to solve their problems for them. Those are the people the gov't should be concerned with helping first and the Liberal platform addresses that. With more employment for families, this theoretically should allow services to be directed at the poor children I mentioned.

Our education system, while it may seem lacking is still one of the best in the world. Some aspects of the education system I feel do not benefit young families and are often counter productive. The scheduling of school hours and the amount of time off given to young students is detrimental on parents who do not work in the education system as they must take time off to ensure their children are properly supervised. This results in lost wages on their end whether it be from time off or money spent on additional supervision (babysitting). More funding for schooling should not only be directed at teacher salaries and educational tools. But also increasing the amount of time a student spends on school grounds. Unfortunately, work hours beyond 8am-3pm receives a large push back from teachers, regardless of their wage increases. That is not the Liberals fault. That solely is on the teachers themselves.

We could spend hours going back and forth on these two topics and each of us would have very valid points. In the end, my main concern is reckless spending the NDP plans on doing. This does not ensure my support for their platform. While you may feel there is a drought, there is atleast some growth in this province and I think that should be recognized instead of exponential growth which you seek through the NDP's spending promises.

[Jmac]

NDP vows to immediately replace the Patullo Bridge, Build LRT in Surrey and Skytrain extension along Broadway, while removing all bridge tolls.

NDP vows to make student loans interest free, give a $1000 "congrats, you got a degree!" payment to students and the $400 renters gift.

Let's not forget $10/day daycare, $15 min wage, Double the budget of BC Arts Council. Along with the obvious increases to Teachers and Health Care workers.

I'll let anyone pick and choose which promises they agree with. My question is where does the money come from? Speculation tax and increases taxes on the wealthy? Possible increased BC Hydro and ICBC fees?

I get it that people feel Christy Clark and the BC Liberals are for sale to foreigners and corporations, but for the NDP to make promises and their plan to pay for these promises is just to increase taxes doesn't sit well with me.

Corporations are always looking for taxes breaks as incentives to do business in a particular city. Increasing their taxes will help drive them away. Remember the whole #savebcfilm movement a few years ago? What happened to that? Oh yeah, the gov't gave the film industry a tax break, BC film is now booming again. Except it recently lost the production of the series "Lucifer" to Los Angeles. Why? Because LA gave the series a tax break.

I wish Christy Clark and the BC Liberals weren't the better choice. But unfortunately it seems like they are. again.

:rant
The interest on student loans is absolutely ludicrous. 2.5% + Prime on floating, 5% + Prime on fixed (currently 5.2% or 7.7%). 6-month "grace" period still accumulates interest while you attempt to find a job.

It's a complete cash grab on a group that already has the deck stacked against them.

So your idea of a well-running province is handing out tax breaks to the wealthy and corporations while young, skilled individuals are gouged at every turn?

[adambomb]

Would you rather have loan debt with no interest but no employment opportunities to pay it back when you graduate. Or loan debt with interest and an abundant number employment opportunities in your chosen field of study when you graduate?
:considered:

[Jmac]

Would you rather have loan debt with no interest but no employment opportunities to pay it back when you graduate. Or loan debt with interest and an abundant number employment opportunities in your chosen field of study when you graduate?
:considered:
The two are mutually-exclusive? Interesting ... Tell me more

[Traum]

To frame it like that as 2 mutually exclusive situations is inappropriate though. Besides, it couldn't be further from the truth.

Ideologically, I don't agree with interest-free student loan. There needs to be a cost to education, if only for the sake of drilling the idea of responsibility into a student's head. What I'd prefer to see is lower tuition fees which results in a smaller overall tuition debt amount.

Additionally, I really disagree with people's fear mongering of mass NDP unemployment, or overplay how the economy is booming under the Liberal leadership. There are elements of truth to both situations, but I do not agree that the reality is as extreme as people purport them to be.

Lastly, the longer I've been in the work force, the less relevant I think it is for someone to work in a field of their initial post-secondary studies. Of course there are jobs that require certifications and stuff that you have to receive education and training on, but a lot of people also change careers, or work in fields that do not directly relate to what they studied.

[adambomb]

You guys are right. For me to express loan debt and employment as mutually exclusive was a poor choice of words. FailFish

But I do feel employment opportunity under an NDP govt would be greatly reduced, especially to those in the private sector. While the NDP pushes a platform to help the middle class, I feel the middle class will eventually experience the biggest setbacks from increased taxes on corporations.

Corporations are always looking to make changes to increase their profits. It is the outcome of living in a capitalist soceity. As we've seen before, they may do it by down sizing, moving or completely changing a business structure, which ultimately affects the middle class workers in my opinion.

[nah]

You guys are right. For me to express loan debt and employment as mutually exclusive was a poor choice of words. FailFish

But I do feel employment opportunity under an NDP govt would be greatly reduced, especially to those in the private sector. While the NDP pushes a platform to help the middle class, I feel the middle class will eventually experience the biggest setbacks from increased taxes on corporations.

Corporations are always looking to make changes to increase their profits. It is the outcome of living in a capitalist soceity. As we've seen before, they may do it by down sizing, moving or completely changing a business structure, which ultimately affects the middle class workers in my opinion.

What middle class? They're all moving away from the GVRD cause no one can afford to live here anymore. Companies aren't going to setup shop here if there are no skilled workers to employ. Last I checked, there were no Apple or Googles here in Vancouver and you'll see a brain drain from the region.

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[Mr.HappySilp]

I wish NDP to be elected, screw up up the BC economy and drives housing price into recession. At least this way we can actually afford to buy/rent in this city.

Jokes aside. For anyone that remember when NPD was elected they basically screw up anyone who own a house and take the economy with it.

There are no better party to vote for. All of them sucks and will screw us up one way or another.

[Tapioca]

What middle class? They're all moving away from the GVRD cause no one can afford to live here anymore.

If people are moving away from the GVRD, why is it that developers can't build enough shitty vinyl siding condos in places like Langley and Maple Ridge to meet the demand?

Why is it that there are bidding wars for condos in Whalley?

Why is it that for my wife's job, there were over 50 applicants in less than a week?

Why haven't you moved away? Why hasn't RS ceased to exist if middle class people are moving away?

This whole narrative that middle class people are moving away is BS. Sure, there are neighbourhoods in the City of Vancouver that have hollowed out. But people never seem to look at Metro Vancouver as a whole. Look around you. There are more cars, more poeple on buses, more restaurants, more coffee shops than ever before. Rec centres are packed. Parks and campgrounds are full. Daycare spaces are in short supply.

[CivicBlues]

Nobody goes to Vancouver anymore, it's too fucking crowded!

[Mr.HappySilp]

If people are moving away from the GVRD, why is it that developers can't build enough shitty vinyl siding condos in places like Langley and Maple Ridge to meet the demand?

Why is it that there are bidding wars for condos in Whalley?

Why is it that for my wife's job, there were over 50 applicants in less than a week?

Why haven't you moved away? Why hasn't RS ceased to exist if middle class people are moving away?

This whole narrative that middle class people are moving away is BS. Sure, there are neighbourhoods in the City of Vancouver that have hollowed out. But people never seem to look at Metro Vancouver as a whole. Look around you. There are more cars, more poeple on buses, more restaurants, more coffee shops than ever before. Rec centres are packed. Parks and campgrounds are full. Daycare spaces are in short supply.

A lot of them seems like students (international students). At least 25 to 30% of them are students it seems, some are on temp working visa, some with family etc etc.....

Not sure if you been to any pre-sale but a ton of them seem to be just investors, more specifically foreign investors.

[Traum]

A lot of them seems like students (international students). At least 25 to 30% of them are students it seems, some are on temp working visa, some with family etc etc.....

Not sure if you been to any pre-sale but a ton of them seem to be just investors, more specifically foreign investors.
^^ A good example of this is the Metrotown area. A sizable amount of people that I run into seem to be young (college age to late 20's?) Mainland Chinese people. This happens on the streets, at the mall, near any number of the new high rise condos there, etc.

And on this point, the current provincial government is at least partly to blame. As a result of the reduced education funding, post secondary institutions are aggressively attracting international students to make up for the funding shortfall. Against a backdrop of rising Mainland Chinese wealth and their ever present desire to seek a foreign education (& maybe stay there afterwards), we have a perfect storm taking place.

Now, I am not saying international students are the only reason. It is simply one of the more easily identifiable reasons, and the root causes has something to do with the provincial government policy. Change the government and we will see a change in policy, maybe?

[Hondaracer]

A lot of them seems like students (international students). At least 25 to 30% of them are students it seems, some are on temp working visa, some with family etc etc.....

Not sure if you been to any pre-sale but a ton of them seem to be just investors, more specifically foreign investors.

As Tapioca lined out though, there are a lot of new businesses constantly opening in and around Vancouver.

Within the last 6 months there have been 10-15 new shops open up in my neighborhood and going out on a Friday night trying to find a seat for even a couple has become a chore because -everywhere- is busy. Literally any hole in the wall that serves a bowl of chips and booze seemingly has a wait.

I'd agree moreso to the desertion if places were closing down or dead, but honestly, East Van, Gas town, Rail town, etc. everywhere is busy as it's ever been imo.

[murd0c]

If people are moving away from the GVRD, why is it that developers can't build enough shitty vinyl siding condos in places like Langley and Maple Ridge to meet the demand?

Why is it that there are bidding wars for condos in Whalley?

Why is it that for my wife's job, there were over 50 applicants in less than a week?

Why haven't you moved away? Why hasn't RS ceased to exist if middle class people are moving away?

This whole narrative that middle class people are moving away is BS. Sure, there are neighbourhoods in the City of Vancouver that have hollowed out. But people never seem to look at Metro Vancouver as a whole. Look around you. There are more cars, more poeple on buses, more restaurants, more coffee shops than ever before. Rec centres are packed. Parks and campgrounds are full. Daycare spaces are in short supply.


Langley and Maple Ridge are still in the GVRD... What's happening is people are selling their homes in Burnaby/Vancouver and moving out to Langley where they are getting more of the money. I moved out of the GVRD (to Mission) and lots of people are since the housing is that much cheaper.

[CivicBlues]

Yup, I don't know where this so-called exodus is headed. Anywhere downtown that serves half-decent food is packed to the gills on Friday/Saturday night.

I've been saying this a lot - 5 years ago you could turn up at a trendy restaurant Fri/Sat without a reso and be seated reasonably quickly. Now? fuggetabowtit! It's not just Mainlanders either. Apparently all the poor broke white hipsters suddenly have money to spend on eating out again.

Which Political party is gonna put an end to the hipster party? will someone tell me who to vote for? Ahhh!!!!

[6o4__boi]

lol nobody is moving away

if anything, it's getting more fucking crowded

even the nicer, quiet hikes of the past are fucking packed to the brims now (though vanshitty buzz's 25 places you should check out bullshit is partly to blame)

[Tapioca]

Langley and Maple Ridge are still in the GVRD... What's happening is people are selling their homes in Burnaby/Vancouver and moving out to Langley where they are getting more of the money. I moved out of the GVRD (to Mission) and lots of people are since the housing is that much cheaper.

Yeah, that's definitely happening. My point still stands though - people aren't leaving the Lower Mainland like people on the internet say they are.

Yup, I don't know where this so-called exodus is headed. Anywhere downtown that serves half-decent food is packed to the gills on Friday/Saturday night.

Which Political party is gonna put an end to the hipster party? will someone tell me who to vote for? Ahhh!!!!

I had to wait in line to get into my local suburban brewery a couple of weekends ago. Yes, a line up at a suburban brewery.

Young people want all of the cultural and financial benefits of globalization, but want protectionism when it comes to housing.

[CivicBlues]

Fuck these younger hipster millennials:

I was living in Vancouver BEFORE it was cool
Eating out in places BEFORE they became cool
Went on Hikes BEFORE hiking was cool

now I'm just not cool :QQ:

[Traum]

Yeah, that's definitely happening. My point still stands though - people aren't leaving the Lower Mainland like people on the internet say they are.
Locals are moving further out, into tinier spaces, and stacked up high into the air (ie high rise condos). And then on top of that, more people than ever are moving / immigrating to the city.

That's where you see more people and the higher density.

Make no mistake -- people are getting displaced.

[Traum]

Fuck these younger hipster millennials:

I was living in Vancouver BEFORE it was cool
Eating out in places BEFORE they became cool
Went on Hikes BEFORE hiking was cool

now I'm just not cool :QQ:
Damn that sounds like my story too...

[murd0c]

I think the main thing is people are moving away but still going downtown and spending money and lots of it. I really wonder how its going to look 30 years from now since these younger hipster types seem to be blowing the cash they make rather then saving it like most of our parents did.

[Gerbs]

[QUOTE=6o4__boi;8837638
even the nicer, quiet hikes of the past are fucking packed to the brims now (though vanshitty buzz's 25 places you should check out bullshit is partly to blame)[/QUOTE]

That's so true. All the hikes I went on early this season, which would normally be empty few years ago. Have at least 10 15 groups at the peaks.

I haven't met anyone that moved away yet. Other than for work in the U.S. or back to Toronto for a pay increase.

[Hondaracer]

if you live past 176th and Highway 1, the amount you're going downtown in a month can be counted on one hand, if that. It's such a chore to spend an evening or even a day in Vancouver coming from anywhere east of that, let alone if you live off the highway.

IMO, i think people are now realizing that downsizing isnt always the answer because when they look at what prices are in the Valley, to have some cash in their pocket but live in a 150 unit townhouse complex, or rely on savings, RRSP's, pensions, etc. and stay in a comfortable home in an area your familiar with i think more and more people are turning towards the latter.

I've seen it time and time again, people move away from homes they could have afforded with a bit of work, perhaps picking up a part time gig somewhere, etc. only to move to Chilliwack, the island, the interior etc. Away from all their friends, family etc. thinking they are moving to easy street, only to be constantly back in the lower mainland doing things, couch surfing, etc. because all their friends and activities, doctors, etc. are here.

When houses in chilliwack are going for 800k, "cashing out" of Burnaby at 1.2 doesnt look so appealing.

[RRxtar]

so the green party wants to increase income tax on the middle class who earn over $100k/year, and roll MSP into payroll taxes.

so the green party wants to punish the hardest working demographic of the work force. the small business owners who grind 60 hour weeks to get a little bit ahead. 100k isnt even high income. thats middle class works a little harder trying to get ahead income level.

those 2 things alone would cost me $10k/year out of my pocket.

[Hondaracer]

And triple the land transfer tax on houses over a mill..yea dat helps..

But yea the higher taxes over 100k is insane.

[Jmac]

so the green party wants to increase income tax on the middle class who earn over $100k/year, and roll MSP into payroll taxes.

so the green party wants to punish the hardest working demographic of the work force. the small business owners who grind 60 hour weeks to get a little bit ahead. 100k isnt even high income. thats middle class works a little harder trying to get ahead income level.

those 2 things alone would cost me $10k/year out of my pocket.
If you make $108,460 of taxable income per year (increasing each year with inflation), you'll pay $0 more in taxes under their platform (assuming you already pay MSP).

It's increasing the tax rate on income earned in excess of $108,460 (plus inflation) by 1% per year up to 3%. So unless you're planning to clear $350k/year in taxable income in 2021 (and have the gall to call that middle class), you're not paying $10k more per year in taxes under the Green's economic platform.

[RRxtar]

If you make $108,460 of taxable income per year (increasing each year with inflation), you'll pay $0 more in taxes under their platform (assuming you already pay MSP).

It's increasing the tax rate on income earned in excess of $108,460 (plus inflation) by 1% per year up to 3%. So unless you're planning to clear $350k/year in taxable income in 2021 (and have the gall to call that middle class), you're not paying $10k more per year in taxes under the Green's economic platform.

if they roll MSP premiums into payroll taxes, since I employ about 10 epmloyees that is about $9000 a year

I cant actually find details on what they plan to do for increasing taxes on people who earn $100k but I did jump the gun tho and forgot to realize that is taxable income above $108k so since I cant actually find the details on what that new tax table looks like, I can't say how much that will affect me personally, at this point. The article I read simply said "on those earning $108k/year". My point still stands tho. I dont think $150k/year is "I make too much disposable income" level. That is the income range for people who work their fucking ass off in middle class society. I know quite a few people in that income level, and none of them work anything resembling 9-5, and none of them are the kinds of people you would expect to be high earners (STEM educated, etc).

[Jmac]

if they roll MSP premiums into payroll taxes, since I employ about 10 epmloyees that is about $9000 a year

I cant actually find details on what they plan to do for increasing taxes on people who earn $100k but I did jump the gun tho and forgot to realize that is taxable income above $108k so since I cant actually find the details on what that new tax table looks like, I can't say how much that will affect me personally, at this point. The article I read simply said "on those earning $108k/year". My point still stands tho. I dont think $150k/year is "I make too much disposable income" level. That is the income range for people who work their fucking ass off in middle class society. I know quite a few people in that income level, and none of them work anything resembling 9-5, and none of them are the kinds of people you would expect to be high earners (STEM educated, etc).
It's in their 97-page platform PDF

Here's the current tax rates in BC:
Tax Rates - Province of British Columbia (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/income-taxes/personal/tax-rates)

On income earned in excess of $108,460 (tied to inflation), the current tax rate is 14.7%. Under the Green's platform, that rate would increase to 17.7% by 2020/2021.

Sorry, I didn't realize you had employees.

Someone making $150k/year with no employees, would pay around $1050 more in taxes in the final year of a Green term. Around $2200 total over the 4 years.

[Traum]

Does it really matter what the Green's detailed tax plans are? It isn't like they'd have a chance to win enough seats to even form a minority government.

Speaking of that, would anyone foresee a loose or formal coalition government of some sort between the NDP and the Greens?

[Jmac]

Right now, the Greens are polling at around 20% of the popular vote and have been trending up. I don't think they'll win, but crazier things have happened. Clark and Horgan are so focused on slinging mud at each other, it's entirely possible they sewer themselves. NDP has been trending down in the polls (still leading) and Liberals have remained flat.

[pastarocket]

Apparently, many of Stephen Harper's staff at his consulting firm are supporters of Crusty's Liberals.
:heckno:

https://www.pressprogress.ca/associate_at_stephen_harper_consulting_firm_behind _shadowy_new_group_linked_to_bc_liberals

Guess who's lurking in the shadows?

It turns out a group planning a $2 million smear campaign has connections with both Christy Clark's BC Liberals and former Prime Minister Stephen Harper's consulting firm.

Business interests in the natural resources and hospitality sectors are reportedly bankrolling a group calling itself "Future Prosperity for BC" that plans to blanket British Columbia with attack ads targeting NDP leader John Horgan in advance of BC's 2017 provincial election.

But according to a new report by Vancouver-based news website theBreaker, key names behind the shadowy group look to be a mix of anti-union lobbyists, BC Liberal donors, appointees to BC government boards and people who currently work for Stephen Harper.
The group is headed by John Winter, former head of the BC Chamber of Commerce, who was praised as a "tireless advocate for free enterprise" by Premier Clark but is described as a "BC Liberal surrogate" by others.

Another name that shows up on press releases as the group's media contact is Shaun Webb:

Who is Shaun Webb? For one thing, he works for Stephen Harper.
Webb's LinkedIn profile says he's previously worked for former Conservative MP Andrew Saxton and later worked as an advisor in Harper's Prime Minister's Office.
Today, Webb lists himself as an "associate" at "Harper and Associates Consulting," where he offers advice to those looking to do business overseas – he also sits on the advisory board of the Canada-China Innovation Network, an organization that looks to "break-down regulatory and cultural barriers" to increase trade and business opportunities with China.

[RRxtar]

sounds good to me!

[Ch28]

Apparently, many of Stephen Harper's staff at his consulting firm are supporters of Crusty's Liberals.
:heckno:

https://www.pressprogress.ca/associate_at_stephen_harper_consulting_firm_behind _shadowy_new_group_linked_to_bc_liberals

Guess who's lurking in the shadows?

It turns out a group planning a $2 million smear campaign has connections with both Christy Clark's BC Liberals and former Prime Minister Stephen Harper's consulting firm.

Business interests in the natural resources and hospitality sectors are reportedly bankrolling a group calling itself "Future Prosperity for BC" that plans to blanket British Columbia with attack ads targeting NDP leader John Horgan in advance of BC's 2017 provincial election.

But according to a new report by Vancouver-based news website theBreaker, key names behind the shadowy group look to be a mix of anti-union lobbyists, BC Liberal donors, appointees to BC government boards and people who currently work for Stephen Harper.
The group is headed by John Winter, former head of the BC Chamber of Commerce, who was praised as a "tireless advocate for free enterprise" by Premier Clark but is described as a "BC Liberal surrogate" by others.

Another name that shows up on press releases as the group's media contact is Shaun Webb:

Who is Shaun Webb? For one thing, he works for Stephen Harper.
Webb's LinkedIn profile says he's previously worked for former Conservative MP Andrew Saxton and later worked as an advisor in Harper's Prime Minister's Office.
Today, Webb lists himself as an "associate" at "Harper and Associates Consulting," where he offers advice to those looking to do business overseas – he also sits on the advisory board of the Canada-China Innovation Network, an organization that looks to "break-down regulatory and cultural barriers" to increase trade and business opportunities with China.

That's because the BC Liberals are not affiliated with the federal Liberal party and are actually Conservatives hiding under the Liberal name. There's a reason Clark is so buddy buddy with Harper.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Cursty Clark is most likely going to win again.

Both NDP and Green plans seems to increase tax one way or another. At least with Clark she is just mostly selling BC away which most people don't really care as long as there are no tax increase.

[G0rilla]

Hmmmm get fucked through housing prices or get fucked through taxes?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Hmmmm get fucked through housing prices or get fucked through taxes?

I chose to get fuck over housing price.... coz I already got one so doesn't matter to me :alone::alone::alone:

[6o4__boi]

Polls don't mean shit.

Greens are still a few years, if not decades away from having any real impact in Provincial politics.

Libs are gonna win again regardless, NDP strongholds will remain strongholds and few, if any, ridings will change. If there were playnow odds on this i'd put my money where my mouth is.

[quasi]

Right now, the Greens are polling at around 20% of the popular vote and have been trending up. I don't think they'll win, but crazier things have happened. Clark and Horgan are so focused on slinging mud at each other, it's entirely possible they sewer themselves. NDP has been trending down in the polls (still leading) and Liberals have remained flat.

Greens are a non factor other then stealing votes from the NDP.

[quasi]

if you live past 176th and Highway 1, the amount you're going downtown in a month can be counted on one hand, if that. It's such a chore to spend an evening or even a day in Vancouver coming from anywhere east of that, let alone if you live off the highway.



This is me to a tee, I live east of the Fraser I might get downtown once or twice every couple years. I go West of the Fraser maybe once every couple months, everything I need is on this side of the river.

[Traum]

Polls don't mean shit.

Greens are still a few years, if not decades away from having any real impact in Provincial politics.

Libs are gonna win again regardless, NDP strongholds will remain strongholds and few, if any, ridings will change. If there were playnow odds on this i'd put my money where my mouth is.
I wouldn't say polls don't mean shxt. But the problem is, sometimes they are reasonably accurate; other times they are absolute garbage. With such a wide variability in accuracy, it's hard to take their numbers seriously.

I was reading yesterday or the day before that the NDP has some good chances in taking over a couple of Liberals stronghold in Metro Vancouver:

How the NDP could thump the Liberals in Metro, still lose the election | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-election-2017-rob-shaw-how-the-ndp-could-thump-the-liberals-in-metro-and-still-lose)

The parties likely have these seats at the top of their list of targets: Vancouver-Fraserview, where Liberal cabinet minister Suzanne Anton’s in trouble; Burnaby North, where Kinder Morgan could dislodge Liberal Richard T. Lee; the two Maple Ridge ridings, where low-profile Liberal incumbents are threatened; two Surrey ridings, where cabinet ministers Peter Fassbender (Fleetwood) and Amrik Virk (Guildford) are fighting for their lives; and Delta North, where Liberal Scott Hamilton is at risk of being overrun by NDP Olympian Ravi Kahlon.

But the problem is, even winning new seats in Metro Van could still mean they have a good chance at losing the election.

And so a question that came up in my mind is -- is it at all possible that the NDP and the Greens seek to form a governing coalition, even if the NDP didn't get the most seats?

[6o4__boi]

With such a wide variability in accuracy, it's hard to take their numbers seriously.

So...they're trash. I know what you mean though. But in all honesty, polls are pretty useless as indicators. In my field of work, it's unfiltered trash. There's still some treasure to be gleaned but for the most part, it's so polluted, it's trash.

Think of polls like shit after eating corn. Sure, you'll see some kernel of truth here and there, but for the most part, it's a messy shit.


And so a question that came up in my mind is -- is it at all possible that the NDP and the Greens seek to form a governing coalition, even if the NDP didn't get the most seats?

Doubt it. Horgan doesn't strike me as someone who's willing to form a coalition. The NDP overall doesn't strike me as a party willing to go there either.

[Traum]

Doubt it. Horgan doesn't strike me as someone who's willing to form a coalition. The NDP overall doesn't strike me as a party willing to go there either.
You know, this is something that has always baffled me. The numbers need to work out in a certain, specific way for it to work, but if there is an opportunity for a political party to seize power in the form of a coalition government, why are they not going for it? Of course you have to share power and compromise with your governing coalition partner for this to work, but sharing power sure beats just being the official opposition party, doesn't it?

Of course when you are campaigning, everybody campaigns to win -- even the Greens. But when the ballots are in and you have this chance, it seems stupid to me that the political parties are not capitalizing on the opportunity.

The late Jack Layton is very smart in this regard -- while he never participated in any coalition governments, he was pretty much working in some of that capacity when the NDP was often bolstering the Conservative minority government in exchange for political favours.

[6o4__boi]

Lol someone pointed this out on my timeline

Christy Clark praises Trump, rips Obama over softwood lumber negotiations | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3365287/christy-clark-praises-trump-rips-obama-over-softwood-lumber-negotiations/)

It would have been hard to do any worse than the previous president when it comes to softwood lumber, she added.

0-100 real quick

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[pastarocket]

-going to the advance polls this weekend to cast my vote.

A.B.C.! Anybody but Crusty! :thumbsup:

[GS8]

When I read the 'polls' about Brexit, the 2016 US Election yada yada, I knew polls meant fuck all.

I mean just because 70% of millennials don't approve of Clark, that in no way means she's going to lose. What % of millennials actually fucking vote?

Though part of me wonders if Alberta of all places went from Conservative to NDP, could BC would follow suit?

[6o4__boi]

Nah. BC voters are lazy as fuck

Id be surprised if we even hit 65% voter turn out this time around

[Blueboy222]

https://youtu.be/ANgSt8LWy_g

[DragonChi]

Are there that many voters out there that are benefiting from Liberal policies?

The BC Hydro debt is a surprise to me.

[Traum]

When I read the 'polls' about Brexit, the 2016 US Election yada yada, I knew polls meant fuck all.

I mean just because 70% of millennials don't approve of Clark, that in no way means she's going to lose. What % of millennials actually fucking vote?

And this part always baffles me. If you care enough to bxtch / disapprove of one party or another, why dafuq are you not heading out to vote?! :yuno: FailFish

[Mr.HappySilp]

Was going to advance voting today but starting to rain lol. We shall see tomorrow. To be honest all 3 parties sucks and none of them seen better than the others.

All 3 parties didn't address my needs and what I want to see change so why should I really vote anyways......

[quasi]

First year I've voted early, no lineup 10 outta 10 would do it again.

[jasonturbo]

https://youtu.be/ANgSt8LWy_g

This must have been produced by the NDP lol

[originalhypa]

-going to the advance polls this weekend to cast my vote.

A.B.C.! Anybody but Crusty! :thumbsup:

I feel the same way as you. I want to punish the Liberal party in BC and the best way to do that is to vote in someone else.

But...... The greens platform is a joke. We have a Libertarian candidate, and he is plain nuts. Then there's the Conservative candidate who's platform seems like a step backwards in time.

So my options are the Liberal incumbent who has run my area for 20 years. Or an indo Canadian millenial woman who is promoting $10 child care, and cheaper tuition for post secondary. Half of her manifesto is about how Crusty is screwing us. Are you kidding me? Where is the foundation? Where is the structure? All I see is talking points, and personal attacks. It's actually a joke that the BC NDP have this huge opportunity to take power, and they're pissing it away with pointless rhetoric, and pathetic candidates.

I'm going to vote, mainly because of social responsibility. But there are no other horses in this race. Consider Langley East as a liberal stronghold, if only because there are no other options.

[MarkyMark]

If the NDP had any kind of a platform and someone who knew how to talk without looking like a fool I'd say they would have had a decent chance. The Liberals win by default, there's no one else.

[Traum]

The audio is not the best, but as someone who cares deeply about education, this interview is infuriating to watch. Kudos to Burnaby Now's Cornelia Naylor to stand her ground and to respectfully but directly rebuked the lies Christy continued to tell to British Columbians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoB_XT-pz90

The truth is -- the BC Liberals government violated constitutional rights for 15 years. Instead of investing money into the education system, they used that money to fight a lengthy court battle that they eventually lost. And when the Supreme Court made the final ruling against her government, the money that must be put back in is now being touted as this government's desire to treat public education as a priority, that it is willing to spend millions on.

All the while, one whole generation of kids had suffered because of the severe cuts to the education system. Do not forget, a child who entered grade school 12 years ago had graduated/left the public education system by the time the Supreme Court ruling came. What was lost/damaged would be irreversible, and it was all the BC Liberals' doing.

[Ch28]

New York Times Exposes BC Liberal Corruption with regards to Real Estate (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/canada/british-columbias-business-temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html?_r=1)

"Participating companies have created few jobs, according to government figures, while more than 140 million Canadian dollars ($106 million) have been doled out in tax refunds since 2008, when the initiative was expanded."

“The government is selling B.C. as a tax haven for the global elite to park investment here, but not have to contribute.”
"At one point, the tax breaks were projected to create more than 13,000 jobs in British Columbia. According to ministry figures, though, fewer than 300 have been created as a result of the program, and possibly as few as 122."

"Experts say that with few public details, it is hard to tell whether the plan is worth the lost tax revenue. They also say the lack of disclosure prevents the public from knowing if companies are using the province as a pit stop on a global quest to avoid taxation."

"The tax breaks favor foreigners in other ways, too. Companies can receive refunds on real estate activities with foreigners, including mortgage loans on property in Canada for international buyers. Conducting the same domestic activities for Canadians would not qualify for the refunds. This has raised concerns that the tax refunds may encourage banks and other companies to prioritize foreigners over Canadians in Canada’s overheated housing markets."

tl;dr: Government finances the purchase of property to foreigners through tax breaks that are not available to citizens. The tax breaks are paid for by the citizens who pay tax, those corporations benefiting from the breaks are tax exempt, of course, or taxes at the CCPC rate, which is designed to encourage and promote small businesses in the province.

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[Digitalis]

How do you explain all the empty store fronts in chinatown then?
As Tapioca lined out though, there are a lot of new businesses constantly opening in and around Vancouver.

Within the last 6 months there have been 10-15 new shops open up in my neighborhood and going out on a Friday night trying to find a seat for even a couple has become a chore because -everywhere- is busy. Literally any hole in the wall that serves a bowl of chips and booze seemingly has a wait.

I'd agree moreso to the desertion if places were closing down or dead, but honestly, East Van, Gas town, Rail town, etc. everywhere is busy as it's ever been imo.

[MrPhreak]

Are there that many voters out there that are benefiting from Liberal policies?

The BC Hydro debt is a surprise to me.

Only people who have jobs and actually pay tax

New York Times Exposes BC Liberal Corruption with regards to Real Estate (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/world/canada/british-columbias-business-temptation-an-opaque-array-of-tax-breaks.html?_r=1)

tl;dr: Government finances the purchase of property to foreigners through tax breaks that are not available to citizens. The tax breaks are paid for by the citizens who pay tax, those corporations benefiting from the breaks are tax exempt, of course, or taxes at the CCPC rate, which is designed to encourage and promote small businesses in the province.

Meh... even if you took this at face value as the Liberals being corrupt; right now BC is leading the country in job growth and economic strength, so who gives a shit. They are obviously doing something right. As the old saying goes... if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.

NDP is fucking poison

[kr4l]

How do you explain all the empty store fronts in chinatown then?

Because Chinatown is no longer needed because of Richmond.

I'm trying to get a spot in Chinatown. Only reason I don't have it yet is because the landlord is being a picky asshole.

Also, Chinatown is going through a big change and is going to develop into the next gastown/yaletown

[Ch28]

Chinatown is going through a big change and is going to develop into the next gastown/yaletown

I'm going to be so sad when that happens. All that history being washed away for a few shiny new condos

[nah]

How do you explain all the empty store fronts in chinatown then?

T&T killed Chinatown...

[kr4l]

I'm going to be so sad when that happens. All that history being washed away for a few shiny new condos

That is true but it is what it is.

I don't think anyone would want to keep it around since it's like zombie land there with bums and addicts. In the end, someone's not going to like what happens to it, no matter what happens to it

[Verdasco]

T&T killed Chinatown...

you cant blame TNT for killing chinatown lol

its because there was a stop in immigration for cantonese speakers in the 90s, and 2000s

everyone that came in the 70s , 80s etc moved out to different parts of vancouver because they found wealth. Better quality of life moving into homes near david thompson, killarney, windy, gladstone area etc.

That is why the government housing currently are filled with native canadians rather than 90% chinese back in the early 90's


and everyone got older..

[Rallydrv]

LIB and NDP both theifs and assholes, untrustworthy

green (although no track records to prove any of the above adjectives used ) have shitty policies.


at this point its going to be who you hate the least.

[underscore]

-going to the advance polls this weekend to cast my vote.

A.B.C.! Anybody but Crusty! :thumbsup:

I get that she's shit, but just voting for any idiot who isn't her is a great way to and up with someone even more useless in office. If you're voting to replace someone then for the love of everything ensure you're replacing them with someone who is actually better.

All 3 parties didn't address my needs and what I want to see change so why should I really vote anyways......

That's what spoiling your ballot is for. It's the only way to display that you want to vote, but you dislike all the options.

[Hondaracer]

The "anyone but" vote really pisses me off.

[kr4l]

I get that she's shit, but just voting for any idiot who isn't her is a great way to and up with someone even more useless in office. If you're voting to replace someone then for the love of everything ensure you're replacing them with someone who is actually better.



That's what spoiling your ballot is for. It's the only way to display that you want to vote, but you dislike all the options.

Exactly.

Although krusty is shit, NDP will be far far worse imo. Just seeing my friends in Alberta all bitch and complain about what is going on there is ridiculous.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The "anyone but" vote really pisses me off.

why not? people did that in the federal election. I voted last Sun. Parents went Liberal coz the guy had a Chinese name. I voted NPD.

[MelonBoy]

Exactly.

Although krusty is shit, NDP will be far far worse imo. Just seeing my friends in Alberta all bitch and complain about what is going on there is ridiculous.


How so.. Alberta has beening doing great until recently.
Krusty has done nothing but bone us up the ass. I haven't seen any solid benefits to our economy other then all these BS make it look nice short term moves (but all the crap comes tumbling later)

Imo. I would rather let someone new "potentially" fuck me in the ass. Then voting for someone who I KNOW will keep fucking me

[carisear]

Yay! We voted Christy out! We got Trump in, but hey, A-B-C!!!!!

[Hondaracer]

why not? people did that in the federal election. I voted last Sun. Parents went Liberal coz the guy had a Chinese name. I voted NPD.

You're voting for "anyone but Harper" because we have a balanced budget and it's perceived the cons are doctoring the books to have a balanced budget.

The "anyone but" vote now has a liberal leader who's spent a years budget in 1.5 months and has put us in billions of dollars of debt. However, I -guarantee- you no one who voted for Justin simply because "anyone but Harper" is better off in the slightest.

Voting for someone because they have a Chinese name is even better than the "anyone but" vote.

[MrPhreak]

Krusty has done nothing but bone us up the ass. I haven't seen any solid benefits to our economy other then all these BS make it look nice short term moves (but all the crap comes tumbling later)

Imo. I would rather let someone new "potentially" fuck me in the ass. Then voting for someone who I KNOW will keep fucking me

Wild Rose party split the vote from PC enough in the last provincial election that the NDP ended up getting in last year. So you are right... Alberta was doing great literally right up until they got in. You can blame oil prices for the downturn, but there was a similar drop in late 2001 after the 9/11 attacks, again then in 2008, and with low provincial taxes and no carbon nonsense, the industry easily bounced back each time.

The other problem is they are going so crazy spending, that in 4 years they are projected to be in more debt than BC (over 60 billion). Which is insane given that up to that point, the province never carried debt.

So in a year they broke one of the strongest provinces in Canada.... just like they broke the previous strongest province in Canada back in the 90's. BC actually had a stronger economy than AB before the NDP got in here.

Krusty has done nothing but bone us up the ass. I haven't seen any solid benefits to our economy other then all these BS make it look nice short term moves (but all the crap comes tumbling later)

Imo. I would rather let someone new "potentially" fuck me in the ass. Then voting for someone who I KNOW will keep fucking me
If you have a job... you are benefiting from the liberals, both through lower taxes and the fact that the company you work for isn't being taxed to death so they can keep you employed.

Besides, BC still hasn't been able to get out of the huge debt the NDP stuck the province with last time around. We literally can't afford the NDP, unless you actually want a ~17% provincial tax.

Yeah, I realize I am pretty biased... but I won't ever forgive the NDP for what they did to this province.

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[Blueboy222]

:troll:

[wreck]

imo Clark is not the reason BC is in the positive position it is in..

however the alternative will worsen the province.

the choice to me is simple.


and another thing, why is it people are more concerned with how they are "offended" than how they are "affected"?

[nah]

Douglas Todd: Government must crack down on dark money to create housing affordability in Vancouver | Vancouver Sun (http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-vancouver-is-a-money-laundering-haven)

This has happened on Krusty's watch and it's probably filling her off shore accounts.

[MarkyMark]

The question is, if you own property do you want a crackdown or do you want business as usual so your investment continues to go sky high?

It's easier to turn a blind eye and just say "sucks for the rest of them".

[MrPhreak]

The question is, if you own property do you want a crackdown or do you want business as usual so your investment continues to go sky high?

It's easier to turn a blind eye and just say "sucks for the rest of them".

This is an issue that is fairly time sensitive, the longer it goes on, the hard it is going to be to make policy changes later.

For the moment, I think the majority of actual Vancouverites that live and work here that are not mega-millionaires likely purchased their homes a while ago, and for less than half of what they are worth now. If they really bring the hammer down and the market falls back 30-40%, you haven't really hurt this group... although they may be pretty annoyed that they didn't get a huge winfall by selling.

As time goes on, these people will sell and maybe decide to take some low interest equity loans out on their massive asset. Meaning new buyers are leveraging hard to get into the market, and many existing buyers are also leveraging to try and enjoy their new found wealth in a more tangible way.

If this goes on too long, then you have a huge number of people that are going to be financially ruined by a 30-40% drop.

I don't think there is a clear answer. My personal feeling is that we are coming off a massive jump in only the last 2 years and that the window for immediate heavy handed action is going to be closing soon.


In terms of political parties, if you put aside bias and just be totally objective about it:

Liberals:
Likely they will take additional action by applying the Foreign Buyers Tax (FBT) to the rest of the province. It probably won't do shit for cooling the market at this point, and I don't think they will really do anything about it.

NDP:
Although they haven't committed to it in their platform, Horgan has alluded to spreading the FBT to the rest of the province as well. They also have a speculation tax of 2% annually. Again, I don't think this is going to really do anything to the market. The problem with the speculation tax is it will end up being applied to middle class Canadians instead of the people it needs to be going against... and those people will just skirt it anyway. I don't see them taking additional action on housing beyond that, honestly their platform is a little weak when it comes to tackling the housing crisis given that they are the opposition and not the incumbent.

Green:
The Green party has the strongest platform stance on this issue. The are planning to double the FBT, change the transfer tax so it will really hurt for people buying 7 figure+ homes (while reducing the taxes for less than that), introducing a much better thought out speculation tax, income based property taxes, revamped home owner grants... I mean it is a total socialist overhaul.


So basically if you have two very modest approaches that will probably do nothing to even cool the market, and a crazy extreme option that will punish anybody who attempts to use their home as an investment.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The question is, if you own property do you want a crackdown or do you want business as usual so your investment continues to go sky high?

It's easier to turn a blind eye and just say "sucks for the rest of them".

Suck it for the rest of them.

Is not like much can be done. Too many people coming to BC, not enough supply. Even if you put a 20% tax on top. People will still need somewhere to live. Instead they gov should build better infrastructure for long time, easier access public transit across BC and better zoning and planning so business want to expand outside of Vancouver, Burnby, Coq, Surrey. BC is huge if only the gov have better planning people wouldn't want to live in Van or any nearby cities. But all of these require long term planning which none of the gov party are willing to do this since it takes too long to show its benefit. So they came up with all these band aid policy which doesn't do anything.

[nah]

This is an issue that is fairly time sensitive, the longer it goes on, the hard it is going to be to make policy changes later.

For the moment, I think the majority of actual Vancouverites that live and work here that are not mega-millionaires likely purchased their homes a while ago, and for less than half of what they are worth now. If they really bring the hammer down and the market falls back 30-40%, you haven't really hurt this group... although they may be pretty annoyed that they didn't get a huge winfall by selling.

As time goes on, these people will sell and maybe decide to take some low interest equity loans out on their massive asset. Meaning new buyers are leveraging hard to get into the market, and many existing buyers are also leveraging to try and enjoy their new found wealth in a more tangible way.

If this goes on too long, then you have a huge number of people that are going to be financially ruined by a 30-40% drop.

I don't think there is a clear answer. My personal feeling is that we are coming off a massive jump in only the last 2 years and that the window for immediate heavy handed action is going to be closing soon.


In terms of political parties, if you put aside bias and just be totally objective about it:

Liberals:
Likely they will take additional action by applying the Foreign Buyers Tax (FBT) to the rest of the province. It probably won't do shit for cooling the market at this point, and I don't think they will really do anything about it.

NDP:
Although they haven't committed to it in their platform, Horgan has alluded to spreading the FBT to the rest of the province as well. They also have a speculation tax of 2% annually. Again, I don't think this is going to really do anything to the market. The problem with the speculation tax is it will end up being applied to middle class Canadians instead of the people it needs to be going against... and those people will just skirt it anyway. I don't see them taking additional action on housing beyond that, honestly their platform is a little weak when it comes to tackling the housing crisis given that they are the opposition and not the incumbent.

Green:
The Green party has the strongest platform stance on this issue. The are planning to double the FBT, change the transfer tax so it will really hurt for people buying 7 figure+ homes (while reducing the taxes for less than that), introducing a much better thought out speculation tax, income based property taxes, revamped home owner grants... I mean it is a total socialist overhaul.


So basically if you have two very modest approaches that will probably do nothing to even cool the market, and a crazy extreme option that will punish anybody who attempts to use their home as an investment.

This is the reason they don't really want to tackle it. Over a billion in revenue just from home transactions. That's a huge revenue source.

'A substantial revenue source': But B.C.'s property transfer tax barely mentioned in campaign - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/a-substantial-revenue-source-but-b-c-s-property-transfer-tax-barely-mentioned-in-campaign-1.4080752)

[Tapioca]

An NDP government won't make homes more affordable, at least not in the short term. You might get more co-ops in a generation though, which I guess for some people is a way for them to build wealth through the stock market while singing kumbaya with their neighbours.

What people want is housing that is some reasonable multiple of median income, say 3 times. Those days are long gone in Metro Vancouver. Housing hasn't been 3 times the median income since the year 2000.

[Hondaracer]

I don't know how anyone can vote NDP after hearing Horgan talk about the plans to remove the tolls from the port Mann. Essentially taking the 500m reserve for LNG development to pay for the first 3 years of toll free crossings and then after that essentially no long term plan with interest on the remaining balance skyrocketing.

[Ludepower]

Rather have the devil krusty clark i know in office than the devil i dont know in NDP.

[RRxtar]

I think the thing we need to remember here is that while yes, CC is a shitty person and probably getting pretty wealthy off her position, voting her out wont positively change your life.

No party will ever really put any money back into your pocket. They can all make pre-election promises for whatever they want, but the reality is that when the time comes to put those promises into action, hardly any change in political party has every really made your day to day life better or made you more money.

The province and country has a significant fixed cost to run year to year. Removing MSP, or removing tolls, or increasing childcare, subsidizing housing, all of that money has to come from somewhere.

To me, it is very clear that 2 of the parties are going to significantly add to the money they take out of my pocket to hand out to others. And lets be honest, Im sure the majority of the people in this thread are in the middle class and working full time. Neither of the 2 parties that lean towards redistributing money are going to give you any more.

They're all taking money out of your pocket. One party at least lets me choose where Im spending some of it.


Lower tax and higher user fees is a better system than higher tax and lower fees. It lets you prioritize where to direct your money instead of spreading it over areas you don't plan to use.

[Traum]

While I agree with RRxtar's points, I think you have failed to mention how Crusty and the Libs have been selling our province out, in terms of both education and home ownership. These are 2 qualities that will take a much longer time to observe the negative impact.

On this front, the Green's platform is really the strongest. Unfortunately, they have no hope of winning the election, so the next best option falls onto the NDP.

If the province continues to vote for Crusty, in the short term, we will see a little more money in our pockets. But in the long term, home ownership (in the Lower Mainland) becomes impossible. Our education gets fxxked. Is that what the province wants to see?

I don't know how anyone can vote NDP after hearing Horgan talk about the plans to remove the tolls from the port Mann. Essentially taking the 500m reserve for LNG development to pay for the first 3 years of toll free crossings and then after that essentially no long term plan with interest on the remaining balance skyrocketing.
In response to Hondaracer's comment here, it seems pretty easy to come up with an equivalent example for the Liberals as well. After seeing the Liberals donor list and how the associated corporations have all "coincidentally" won massively lucrative contracts from the province, I don't know how anyone can still vote for the Liberals.

At the point, I'm sure we've all made up our minds, and we all know our choices are just bad vs horrible vs shxtty. The important thing to do is to come out and vote, and remind others who have seriously considered the voting process to come out and vote as well.

God bless BC tomorrow.

[MrPhreak]

^^ That is a fair point Traum, and I don't doubt that favoritism comes into play when big money is being put up to fund these huge campaigns

However, the NDP are not exactly any better when it comes to handing out favors to doners when it comes to big contracts. When they were in power in the 90's and they built the inland highway on Vancouver Island, they actually made it a mandatory requirement that you had to be unionized to get any of that work. There were a lot of people from the Island that were counting on putting their equipment to work (mostly because the NDP had collapsed the forestry industry with massive taxes in the form of stumpage fees) that felt betrayed by the NDP by that decision. The Fast Cat ferries, all built by union workers... ditto on half dozen other mega special projects they did.

The only major difference is that when unions get involved, the tax payers tend to get screwed even more on the price.

I don't know how many people on here would remember, but there was a rally of over a hundred thousand people in Victoria at one point trying to get Harcourt the fuck out because of the insane taxes on forestry. You see protests on TV these days, and they pail in comparison to the public anger at the NDP back then. At one point, for certain species of tress... if you cut it down, you owed more taxes on it than it was worth. It bankrupted most of the small operators. Luckily Harcourt got caught stealing money from charity that was generated by Bingo and had to resign. Glen Clark was better, but he also had to resign because he approved a casino licence for free renovation work... good ol' NDP.

I still remember the 2001 election... NDP went from 39 seats to 2 seats overnight. People were unified, and you don't see that very often unless there is something very wrong. I guess a lot of new voters are just too young to remember how utterly terrible they were.

[Traum]

MrPhreak, I was too young to know anything that Harcourt has done (I only knew he was the Premier), but I do remember some of Glen Clark's stuff.

I think most / all of us who have seriously thought about the election know our primary choices are all shxt. It is depressing to see that is how things are, and that is why I seriously pray that God would bless BC tomorrow for the best possible outcome out of these 3 bad choices.

[MrPhreak]

MrPhreak, I was too young to know anything that Harcourt has done (I only knew he was the Premier), but I do remember some of Glen Clark's stuff.

I think most / all of us who have seriously thought about the election know our primary choices are all shxt. It is depressing to see that is how things are, and that is why I seriously pray that God would bless BC tomorrow for the best possible outcome out of these 3 bad choices.

Yeah I can agree on that for sure

I kind of wish we had another option, something that better represented the values of BC. I generally feel like people in BC are sincere in their effort to look after those that need it, but we still have that wild west spirit and value hard work, spending responsibly, and those who earn their way in this world.

[DragonChi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-wq9H-a-UA

[Jmac]

^^ That is a fair point Traum, and I don't doubt that favoritism comes into play when big money is being put up to fund these huge campaigns

However, the NDP are not exactly any better when it comes to handing out favors to doners when it comes to big contracts. When they were in power in the 90's and they built the inland highway on Vancouver Island, they actually made it a mandatory requirement that you had to be unionized to get any of that work. There were a lot of people from the Island that were counting on putting their equipment to work (mostly because the NDP had collapsed the forestry industry with massive taxes in the form of stumpage fees) that felt betrayed by the NDP by that decision. The Fast Cat ferries, all built by union workers... ditto on half dozen other mega special projects they did.

The only major difference is that when unions get involved, the tax payers tend to get screwed even more on the price.



I don't know how many people on here would remember, but there was a rally of over a hundred thousand people in Victoria at one point trying to get Harcourt the fuck out because of the insane taxes on forestry. You see protests on TV these days, and they pail in comparison to the public anger at the NDP back then. At one point, for certain species of tress... if you cut it down, you owed more taxes on it than it was worth. It bankrupted most of the small operators. My family nearly lost our house over it... it was dark years. Luckily Harcourt got caught stealing money from charity that was generated by Bingo and had to resign. Glen Clark was better, but he also had to resign because he approved a casino licence for free renovation work... good ol' NDP.

I still remember the 2001 election... NDP went from 39 seats to 2 seats overnight. People were unified, and you don't see that very often unless there is something very wrong. I guess a lot of new voters are just too young to remember how utterly terrible they were.
Now there's barely a forest industry to speak of thanks to deregulation and raw log exports.

[Mr.HappySilp]

While I agree with RRxtar's points, I think you have failed to mention how Crusty and the Libs have been selling our province out, in terms of both education and home ownership. These are 2 qualities that will take a much longer time to observe the negative impact.

On this front, the Green's platform is really the strongest. Unfortunately, they have no hope of winning the election, so the next best option falls onto the NDP.

If the province continues to vote for Crusty, in the short term, we will see a little more money in our pockets. But in the long term, home ownership (in the Lower Mainland) becomes impossible. Our education gets fxxked. Is that what the province wants to see?


In response to Hondaracer's comment here, it seems pretty easy to come up with an equivalent example for the Liberals as well. After seeing the Liberals donor list and how the associated corporations have all "coincidentally" won massively lucrative contracts from the province, I don't know how anyone can still vote for the Liberals.

At the point, I'm sure we've all made up our minds, and we all know our choices are just bad vs horrible vs shxtty. The important thing to do is to come out and vote, and remind others who have seriously considered the voting process to come out and vote as well.

God bless BC tomorrow.

Look is not as hard as people think to own or buy a property. At least your first property is going to be an apartment. Lot's of people I know already bought one. They do not work jobs with 6 figures they save by getting what they need and work 2 jobs or even 3 jobs. Save up, buy in.

I love to be able to get that awesome cup of coffee from the cafe near my office for $4 everyday. The office coffee is crap but hey is free. I love to be able to try fancy restaurants or even go out for dinner at least once a week. Guess what? It cost $40+ VS cooking at home for less than $10 and I usually have left over. I love to get new clothing every season. Guess what? It cost hundreds of dollars at least while the clothing I have is good enough. I love to get the new limited edition runners but that will run a few hundred or even more which I don't need since I already have a few pairs of regular runners. I love to go several trips a year instead of going on one trip every few years. The list can go on and go and go.

Why do you think people who made just above min wage can afford to buy into the market while people who made way more can't. Is coz the people who made less actually have porities rather than just spending the money on worthless crap. That's the reality people have to see and stop asking for gov to fix it. Coz it won't get/can't/will not get fix. There is too much depending on the housing market. Real estate agent, mortgage brokers, banks, counstruction field, raw material market etc etc. If the market goes down or even come to stall there is going to be massive layoffs and people aren't going to like it one bit.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

if you're poor it doesn't matter who you vote for, you're still going to be poor, and it's still going to suck.

[Jmac]

Look is not as hard as people think to own or buy a property. At least your first property is going to be an apartment. Lot's of people I know already bought one. They do not work jobs with 6 figures they save by getting what they need and work 2 jobs or even 3 jobs. Save up, buy in.

I love to be able to get that awesome cup of coffee from the cafe near my office for $4 everyday. The office coffee is crap but hey is free. I love to be able to try fancy restaurants or even go out for dinner at least once a week. Guess what? It cost $40+ VS cooking at home for less than $10 and I usually have left over. I love to get new clothing every season. Guess what? It cost hundreds of dollars at least while the clothing I have is good enough. I love to get the new limited edition runners but that will run a few hundred or even more which I don't need since I already have a few pairs of regular runners. I love to go several trips a year instead of going on one trip every few years. The list can go on and go and go.

Why do you think people who made just above min wage can afford to buy into the market while people who made way more can't. Is coz the people who made less actually have porities rather than just spending the money on worthless crap. That's the reality people have to see and stop asking for gov to fix it. Coz it won't get/can't/will not get fix. There is too much depending on the housing market. Real estate agent, mortgage brokers, banks, counstruction field, raw material market etc etc. If the market goes down or even come to stall there is going to be massive layoffs and people aren't going to like it one bit.
Thus the stupidity of building your economy on real estate.

As the GZA would say, you need to diversify yo bonds.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Sean Cooper pays off mortgage in 3 years and earns online hate - Business - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sean-cooper-mortgage-debt-1.3402026)

This guy save up $170,000 down payment and pay off his mortgage of $255,000 in 3 years by having 3 jobs, working 100+ hours a week and life as a no lifer for a few years. All I am saying is is not hard to save up if you have the will power to do it. Yes you scrafice your social life, you have no time to relax, can't buy what you want but that's only for a few years then you are free. Of course people don't have to go his extreme route. I mean start maybe saving bit by bit. It all adds up. Instead of complaining and demanding someone to help you, do it yourself.

I don't a lot. But I manage to save enough for put a large down payment for my apartment by saving. People in Van CAN do it too but they rather not and complain.

[MarkyMark]

I really do wonder what the limits are as far as housing goes here. Will townhouses in Langley be worth over a million dollars in 10 years? They are already creeping up past 600k now. Assuming no restrictions are put in place, it'll be interesting to see how out of hand it actually gets.

[Traum]

FailFish

It boggles my mind that you are citing such an extreme example as something to support your argument that RE purchase and mortgage-free ownership can happen, while completely ignoring how RE prices have shot up off the charts, and in particular, how the price increase are on orders of magnitude higher than salary increases.

Even if you can do this during your bachelor life, can a married couple do something like that? Can a young family do that?

For the past many years, Vancouver housing has been consistently ranked as the 2nd or 3rd least affordable in the world (with Hong Kong always being at the top of this dubious distinction). If you think the problem is still with people such as myself complaining and demanding someone else to help us, you are either blind or delusional.

Sean Cooper pays off mortgage in 3 years and earns online hate - Business - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sean-cooper-mortgage-debt-1.3402026)

This guy save up $170,000 down payment and pay off his mortgage of $255,000 in 3 years by having 3 jobs, working 100+ hours a week and life as a no lifer for a few years. All I am saying is is not hard to save up if you have the will power to do it. Yes you scrafice your social life, you have no time to relax, can't buy what you want but that's only for a few years then you are free. Of course people don't have to go his extreme route. I mean start maybe saving bit by bit. It all adds up. Instead of complaining and demanding someone to help you, do it yourself.

I don't a lot. But I manage to save enough for put a large down payment for my apartment by saving. People in Van CAN do it too but they rather not and complain.

[Hondaracer]

People I know with zero skills, no trade, and bad work ethics made 200k+ and saved it during the oil boom.

Still money to be made out there but If your family's well being was that important a few years seems like a a small price to pay for a big down payment on a roof over your head

Imo a "young family" put the Themselves into that position by bringing a child into a lifestyle they were already struggling to afford.

And again, I go back to, isn't a condo in Whalley enough "home" for someone? There is no longer a right of even perception thay the norm is a detached home

[MarkyMark]

I've yet to hear anyone that's bought in at today's over inflated market prices say that other people need to just work 24/7 and deal with it. Every person I know that says this either bought in when it was still affordable, or were gifted a house. They never worked three jobs but have no problem telling other people how it's not a big deal.

[adambomb]

For the past many years, Vancouver housing has been consistently ranked as the 2nd or 3rd least affordable in the world

But also Vancouver has been ranked high in most liveable cities in the world, ranked high in climate livability in Canada, ranked high in employment opportunities within Canada.

Generally, Metro Vancouver is a nice place to live with the ability to find steady employment and raise a family. It would be delusional to think these factors don't come into play when questioning why we end up ranked as one of the least affordable. We consistently rank high in least affordable yet people keep pouring into the city. Both Canadian citizens and foreign immigrants. Even the drug addicted know to come to Vancouver for the best gov't services.

There is large percentage of the young population in Metro Vancouver that laugh at the idea of living anywhere East of Burnaby, let alone buying anything that far in the suburbs. These are the ones you see crying about housing prices in East Van. They very well could afford a decent home in Langley or Maple Ridge and be able to comfortably pay a mortgage or raise a family, but then they end up crying about the "commute" and lack of "culture". What if a 600k place in Langley hits close to 1M in a few years as mentioned. Wouldn't moving out to Langley be a smart move in the long run? Is the "culture" in East Van worth the annual rent increase? When was Vancouver "affordable?" The real estate thread started 2012 when you could still pick up a 2bed/2bath for less than 300k and that was considered "over-inflated" pricing back then. Unfortunately, those who laugh at living in the suburbs are also the ones that hope a NDP gov't will magically be able to bring housing prices down 30-40% so they can continue to live in their "fair trade" utopia. NDP knows it and that's why the keep touting it in their election promises. :crybaby:

[G0rilla]

I've yet to hear anyone that's bought in at today's over inflated market prices say that other people need to just work 24/7 and deal with it. Every person I know that says this either bought in when it was still affordable, or were gifted a house. They never worked three jobs but have no problem telling other people how it's not a big deal.

But "affordable" now may not have been "affordable" back then when they bought in. Such as when most of our parents bought in at 2-300k for a detached house with 20% interest rates, it SEEMS AFFORDABLE now, but tell that to them back in 1992. It was hard but doable

No matter what, its always a gamble, "what if the market keeps going up?" "what if it crashses?". Historically, the odds are that prices are going to keep rising no matter what, the damage has been done. If there is a market correction, those that overstretched their means will feel it first

[Urrtoast]

Going to be some good deals on those that over stretched there finances.
Might have to pickup a second place then maybe even a 3rd.
:fuckyea:

But "affordable" now may not have been "affordable" back then when they bought in. Such as when most of our parents bought in at 2-300k for a detached house with 20% interest rates, it SEEMS AFFORDABLE now, but tell that to them back in 1992. It was hard but doable

No matter what, its always a gamble, "what if the market keeps going up?" "what if it crashses?". Historically, the odds are that prices are going to keep rising no matter what, the damage has been done. If there is a market correction, those that overstretched their means will feel it first

[kr4l]

You guys do know that if a market does crash, the reason that it crashes effects people that are currently mortgaging a home AND people that want to purchase a new home as well right? It's not just, oh market crashes, people that own and can't afford to pay for there huge over leveraged mortgages will go bankrupt and everyone on the sidelines will just buy in no problems.

[Traum]

You guys do know that if a market does crash, the reason that it crashes effects people that are currently mortgaging a home AND people that want to purchase a new home as well right? It's not just, oh market crashes, people that own and can't afford to pay for there huge over leveraged mortgages will go bankrupt and everyone on the sidelines will just buy in no problems.
In this particular aspect, the housing market is really a bit of a zero sum game. In a market upswing, those who are benefiting from the RE price surges are doing so at the expense of those who are trying to save up enough to land themselves a home. In the market downturn, those picking up inventory during the housing price drops are benefiting at the expense of those who are selling, whatever that reason for selling might be.

I hate it when people make it sound like we're evil or something when we wish the market would come down to a more reasonable levels because those would have just bought would sink under their negative asset. You can easily turn that argument around, and say that those who wish for continual strength in the RE market are evil because no newcomers would be able to get into home ownership. IMO, an argument like this is not particularly useful because people would be affected either way.

[Tapioca]

What's a reasonable decline in the market?

15%? 25%?

[Hondaracer]

I think the majority of people crossing their fingers for a "crash" are in fact just bitter assholes because even if the market crashed 30% which would be basically unheard of
Globally, they still wouldn't be able to get into the market

Simply wishing Ill upon others is an asshole move.

[MG1]

Is this the election thread?

I'm gonna wait till the last minute. Okay......... last hour.

Steve Darling is the Liberal candidate for my riding. Nuff said. Not decided as to which of the other canidates to vote for.



As a side note, I'm hoping Fassbender gets bent over and.................. up the wazoo. Not my favourite dictator, as far as dictators go.

[Traum]

Is this the election thread?

As a side note, I'm hoping Fassbender gets bent over and.................. up the wazoo. Not my favourite dictator, as far as dictators go.
LOL~ Just goes to show that housing affordability is an election issue that a lot of us hold near and dear to our hearts.

I quite agree on hoping how Fassbender gets bent over. On the waiting until the final hour bit though -- the line up usually gets longer when everyone goes to vote last minute. So please try to go early if you can.

[MG1]

LOL~ Just goes to show that housing affordability is an election issue that a lot of us hold near and dear to our hearts.

I quite agree on hoping how Fassbender gets bent over. On the waiting until the final hour bit though -- the line up usually gets longer when everyone goes to vote last minute. So please try to go early if you can.

Don't think any politician can do much about the housing affordability issue.


All the yummy mommy's come out the last hour........... just kidding.

[Digitalis]

Is it just my voting locale or do they use pencils in the booths where u guys are too?

[Hondaracer]

Is it just my voting locale or do they use pencils in the booths where u guys are too?

i was instructed to use the pencil in the booth as opposed to the pen i had borrowed from her..

dat rigged shit?

[kr4l]

In this particular aspect, the housing market is really a bit of a zero sum game. In a market upswing, those who are benefiting from the RE price surges are doing so at the expense of those who are trying to save up enough to land themselves a home. In the market downturn, those picking up inventory during the housing price drops are benefiting at the expense of those who are selling, whatever that reason for selling might be.

I hate it when people make it sound like we're evil or something when we wish the market would come down to a more reasonable levels because those would have just bought would sink under their negative asset. You can easily turn that argument around, and say that those who wish for continual strength in the RE market are evil because no newcomers would be able to get into home ownership. IMO, an argument like this is not particularly useful because people would be affected either way.

No one is really making you sound evil for trying to buy a home for yourself and for your family. I believe everyone that works hard deserves the right to. However, that home may not be in your ideal location and you'll have to live with that, no matter if your commute is an hour to work, or how far away you're from family etc etc.

Have you ever thought of any legitimate reasons that would make the RE prices crash 50% that would only effect home owners now and not people waiting in the sidelines? Because I know of none. It's all a matter of supply and demand right now and no choice in the election will fix that

[adambomb]

Apparently there is a lot of free food tonight at the campaign HQ's of many candidates. :considered:

Skip the dishes tonight? :accepted:

[MarkyMark]

I think the majority of people crossing their fingers for a "crash" are in fact just bitter assholes because even if the market crashed 30% which would be basically unheard of
Globally, they still wouldn't be able to get into the market

Simply wishing Ill upon others is an asshole move.

You're wishing Whalley condos upon everyone else, if that's not ill then what is lol

[HonestTea]

Voted.

[Traum]

Have you ever thought of any legitimate reasons that would make the RE prices crash 50% that would only effect home owners now and not people waiting in the sidelines? Because I know of none. It's all a matter of supply and demand right now and no choice in the election will fix that
True, I can't think of any legitimate reasons that would make RE prices crash 50%, but I can think of a couple of reasons on why and how the price hikes got there so fast. Hint -- it's a combination of federal and provincial policies that accelerated the price hike.

As a matter of policy though, I would be really interested to see how the Green's heavy handed anti-foreign investment and anti-flipping housing policy plays out. Of course, they have a 0% chance of winning the election, but it is nevertheless interesting to consider the impact, and how much order it can restore to the market.

[MG1]

Apparently there is a lot of free food tonight at the campaign HQ's of many candidates. :considered:

Skip the dishes tonight? :accepted:

Oh........... maybe I'll mosey on down to Steve Darling's office in Kensington Square for freebies, lol. Then tell him I voted for the other person, gulolololol.

[Gh0stRider]

Live BC election results 2017: Track the results in real-time | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/3432025/live-bc-election-2017-real-time-results/)

[6o4__boi]

Lmao game over pretty much...i dont see the Libs relinquishing the lead

Gonna be similar results like in 2013
Imma be collecting some dough tmr
:awwyeah:

[MrPhreak]

Current Results: Either Leading or Elected

UPDATED:

Liberals: 42
NDP: 41
Green: 1

Looks like the Liberals are going to take it (44 is a majority)

CTV is saying that statistically the NDP will get a maximum of 44 seats at this point, so if things don't start to turn in their favor in the next little bit, they will fall below the majority level.

[fsy82]

Looks like Liberal majority

[Manic!]

Not over yet.

L43
N40
G1

[Manic!]

L42
N41

[MG1]

Is Christy Crunch going to win this time around? Her party won a majority, but she lost her riding, IIRC. To NDP's David Eby.


"Well That Was Easy........." I guess we'll hear that again.

[MrPhreak]

Oh crap.... NDP just took the lead with 43 to 42

Is Christy Crunch going to win this time around? Her party won a majority, but she lost her riding, IIRC. To NDP's David Eby.

"Well That Was Easy........." I guess we'll hear that again.

She was already declared elected in Kelowna

[ssjGoku69]

Will recounts be completed by 11pm?

[MG1]

I don't care about who get's in, except "I'm Bending Over Fast," Peter. I hope he gets ousted.

[Ch28]

Is Christy Crunch going to win this time around? Her party won a majority, but she lost her riding, IIRC. To NDP's David Eby.


"Well That Was Easy........." I guess we'll hear that again.

Crusty Clark won her riding in Kelowna

David Eby (beat Clark last election) won his riding in Vancouver-Point Grey

[Traum]

It's actually turning into a really tight race...

:Popcorn -worthy, indeed.

[Ch28]

I don't care about who get's in, except "I'm Bending Over Fast," Peter. I hope he gets ousted.

He's losing big to the NDP candidate right now

[CorneringArtist]

He's losing big to the NDP candidate right now

I saw the NDP candidate walking the block with some supporters in Fleetwood the other day.

[MG1]

Oh crap.... NDP just took the lead with 43 to 42



She was already declared elected in Kelowna


To a safe riding? Or is she living there......... I don't follow politics. Too much bullshit. Smiles and Chuckles.

[MrPhreak]

So as it shows right now...

NDP: 43
Liberals: 42
Green: 2

So NDP Minority with the Green party holding the balance of power? That would be a bizarre government if it sticks

To a safe riding? Or is she living there......... I don't follow politics. Too much bullshit. Smiles and Chuckles.

Safe riding to ensure she remains the premier, it is a common practice

They were saying that the NDP has never won that seat

[Ch28]

I don't care about who get's in, except "I'm Bending Over Fast," Peter. I hope he gets ousted.

He just lost to the NDP candidate. NDP elected in the ridinf

[Traum]

So as it shows right now...

NDP: 43
Liberals: 42
Green: 2

So NDP Minority with the Green party holding the balance of power? That would be a bizarre government if it sticks

A minority gov wouln't necessarily be a bad thing, even if it is a bit weird.

We will see how this one plays out.

[6o4__boi]

Thank god Factbender lost his seat.
That guy was scum.

This is actually pretty good tv right now

[MrPhreak]

A minority gov wouln't necessarily be a bad thing, even if it is a bit weird.

We will see how this one plays out.

It is really weird, because technically the Green party could support either the NDP or Liberals... whomever plays ball with some of their demands gets to be the government.

EDIT: It just flipped to a Liberal Minority, lol.... not that it matters, same situation

[Jmac]

My riding is too close to call right now. NDP currently leads the Greens by 100 votes.

My gut tells me the Green party will win that seat as most people I know who voted in the advanced polls voted Green and they count the advanced polls last. Could go either way.

What happens if it's 42-42-3?

Edit: Down to a 14 vote NDP lead in my riding

[MrPhreak]

My riding is too close to call right now. NDP currently leads the Greens by 100 votes.

My gut tells me the Green party will win that seat as most people I know who voted in the advanced polls voted Green and they count the advanced polls last. Could go either way.

What happens if it's 42-42-3?

In that case the speaker gives the first right to the incumbent premier to form government (so supported by the greens).

Technically if it stays 43L/42N/2G, the NDP could form government with the Greens, but the speaker would still recognized Christy as the premier... wouldn't that be messed up haha

[MG1]

2 or 3 seat minority......... hmmmmmmm. It might be the best thing ever. Christy did say she can work with anybody, hee hee.


So dissolve the government in a short time and start all over again if shit goes south? I'm not sure how provincial politics work. Same as federal?




EDIT: Okay, got it.............. in other words, more ass kissing, as opposed to ass-kicking, lol.

[Traum]

Whatever form of minority government takes place, I would welcome that over a Liberal majority.

[MrPhreak]

Whatever form of minority government takes place, I would welcome that over a Liberal majority.

The only thing is there are some big ideological differences between the Greens and other parties... I know Andrew Weaver said he can work with anybody, but I also think that he is pretty stubborn and might throw a confidence vote just to prove a point.

I don't think a minority would survive the 4 years, my guess is we will probably be back at the polls within 12~24 months

[Gh0stRider]

its 42-42-3 now

lol

[MG1]

I don't see it lasting long, either, so how the voters see things in that time will be interesting.

Any idea how voter turn out was this time around?

[Jmac]

My riding now lead by the Greens by a slim margin. NDP done fucked up if they lose Cowichan.

[Traum]

The only thing is there are some big ideological differences between the Greens and other parties... I know Andrew Weaver said he can work with anybody, but I also think that he is pretty stubborn and might throw a confidence vote just to prove a point.

I don't think a minority would survive the 4 years, my guess is we will probably be back at the polls within 12~24 months
With Steve Harpy's federal Cons once working with Jack Layton's NDP to fend off the Liberals, I'd have to say ideological differences can at least take a backseat in the face of immediate benefits -- at least for a while.

At this point, it honestly seems like the most important outcome is to keep the Liberals from crossing that 43 seat line.

[hchang]

its 42-42-3 now

lol

Lol......

Please don't let the NDP win....

[MrPhreak]

With Steve Harpy's federal Cons once working with Jack Layton's NDP to fend off the Liberals, I'd have to say ideological differences can at least take a backseat in the face of immediate benefits -- at least for a while.

At this point, it honestly seems like the most important outcome is to keep the Liberals from crossing that 43 seat line.

This is an incredible opportunity for Weaver and the Greens really, he is going to be able to have a huge hand in policy making and get some of the things he really feels strongly about implemented.

Either NDP or Liberals, I am sure he doesn't care who cooperates with him

[MrPhreak]

CTV just declared it will be a minority government

However, they don't know who it will be yet, lol

There is a 72% chance it will be a perfect tie

Another intersting stat: Minority governments typically only last 18 months on average


At least one thing is clear... this won't be the status quo going forward, politics in BC is going to be very interesting in the next couple of months

[6o4__boi]

Lmao Andrew Weaver must be ecstatic right now

[westopher]

If ndp holds more seats than the libs, does krusty still get to cut the ribbons at LNG plant constructions?

[Traum]

This is an incredible opportunity for Weaver and the Greens really, he is going to be able to have a huge hand in policy making and get some of the things he really feels strongly about implemented.

Either NDP or Liberals, I am sure he doesn't care who cooperates with him
I completely agree. If Weaver and the Greens can seize this opportunity and prove to the BC voters that they are capable of becoming a viable alternative to the Libs and the NDP, their support base could soar, and the provincial political landscape would shift dramatically. I know a LOT of voters are craving for such a viable alternative even in this election, but because they see none, they are continuing to vote Lib or NDP.

[GS8]

Lmao Andrew Weaver must be ecstatic right now

I worked on the first debate and met all three in person and he was by far the most interesting human being out of the three.

[Teriyaki]

Greens need a party name change or something... Most people are like "dafaq are they?"

[MrPhreak]

I completely agree. If Weaver and the Greens can seize this opportunity and prove to the BC voters that they are capable of becoming a viable alternative to the Libs and the NDP, their support base could soar, and the provincial political landscape would shift dramatically. I know a LOT of voters are craving for such a viable alternative even in this election, but because they see none, they are continuing to vote Lib or NDP.

I am kind of excited and scared at the same time... I like some of the ideas Weaver put forward, and really disagree with others. He isn't going to get everything he wants, so I just wonder where Weaver will push hardest.

During the debate, and on the campaign trail I did notice that Horgan and Weaver really got into a lot of spats despite being on a more similar path when it comes to the environment. I kind of feel like Weaver and Clark get along better... but who really knows how this is going to turn out

EDIT: They are interviewing one of the green party guys right now, he is basically saying that they won't support any fossil fuel infrastructure projects. So goodbye LNG, Trans-mountain Pipeline... etc.

I worked on the first debate and met all three in person and he was by far the most interesting human being out of the three.
I personally liked him a lot in the debates, he was the only person that spoke from his heart and with clear objectives while the other two read from cue cards and just kept repeating each other. Of all three I'd like to have a beer with Weaver, not so much for the other two.

[Eff-1]

Wahoo! No more Suzanne Anton running the legal system, ICBC and setting the traffic laws and penalties, and being completely ignorant to the needs and opinions of BC drivers.

[GS8]

I personally liked him a lot in the debates, he was the only person that spoke from his heart and with clear objectives while the other two read from cue cards and just kept repeating each other. Of all three I'd like to have a beer with Weaver, not so much for the other two.

CBC interviewed his parents and I can see where he gets his personality from. Very down-to-Earth, friendly and approachable.

The more I heard Horgan speak, the more I wondered 'what's he hiding' ?

[Ch28]

If it remains 42/42/3 then it'll likely be a Green/NDP coalition.

Andrew Weaver said that the Greens will only form a coalition if 3 conditions are met:

1. Ban corporate donation
2. Increase education funding
3. Electoral reform with better representation

NDP has said they want 1 and 3 while Liberals don't

Liberals said 2 was "doable" but Liberals have a history of fucking over nurses and teachers...so yeah.

Looks like Greens and NDP are likely to form a coalition

[The Producer]

advanced polls aren't in - and they represent a huge % of voters apparently

my riding is less than a 1000 votes apart - interesting times. you never think your vote really counts

EDIT: crazy watching the courtenay-comox numbers. sooo close

[DragonChi]

Still advanced votes to be counted.

[underscore]

I completely agree. If Weaver and the Greens can seize this opportunity and prove to the BC voters that they are capable of becoming a viable alternative to the Libs and the NDP, their support base could soar, and the provincial political landscape would shift dramatically. I know a LOT of voters are craving for such a viable alternative even in this election, but because they see none, they are continuing to vote Lib or NDP.

If it weren't for all their absurd environmental policies I'd be all over the Green party. I care about the environment but I can't stand all the traditional short-sighted, fear mongering "environmentalist" bullshit.

[DragonChi]

Yeah, not supporting fossil fuel related infrastructure is a big one.

[Jmac]

If it weren't for all their absurd environmental policies I'd be all over the Green party. I care about the environment but I can't stand all the traditional short-sighted, fear mongering "environmentalist" bullshit.
I don't agree with the no fossil fuel projects thing, but throwing boatloads of money at a declining industry is the short-sighted thing to do.

[Jmac]

NDP won Courtenay-Comox by 9 votes

[The Producer]

^^lot of active military absentee votes in comox - that one would prob flip? i think that's my gut feeling on that demographic

[The Producer]

that's it for tonight - wild stuff

not sure what the timeline is for counting absentees

[DragonChi]

I heard it was 13 days? That makes it May 23rd.

[Manic!]

that's it for tonight - wild stuff

not sure what the timeline is for counting absentees

CBC projects B.C. Liberal minority government - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-election-2017-results-1.4107582)

Absentee ballots and judicial recounts mean the final result won't be known for two weeks

[SkinnyPupp]

If it weren't for all their absurd environmental policies I'd be all over the Green party. I care about the environment but I can't stand all the traditional short-sighted, fear mongering "environmentalist" bullshit.
A minority government giving the Green Party the deciding vote might just be the best result possible

[Manic!]

A minority government giving the Green Party the deciding vote might just be the best result possible

Problem is minority governments don't last.