Mobility Pricing -- Final Report & Recommendations

[Traum]

Metro Vancouver road pricing could cost up to $8 per day per family | Vancouver Sun

The 14-member commission, which began meeting last July and launched its public engagement and research project in late October, looked at about 10 options for decongestion charging and in the end narrowed its focus to two, both of which could reduce congestion by 20 to 25 per cent.

One option is congestion point charges, which involve charging people when they pass a certain point or location, such as a busy stretch of road, a bridge or a tunnel. These would be placed at or close to some or all of the regionally important crossings — about a dozen — and be complemented by further charges at locations on the Burrard Peninsula.

Based on early analysis, a regional congestion point charge would cost the average paying household that doesn’t change its driving behaviour $5 to $8 per day, or $1,800 to $2,700 per year. This option would see the regional gas tax, which is 17 cents per litre, remain in place.

The capital cost to establish congestion point charges would be in the $150 million to $300 million range, with annual operating costs of $110 million to $200 million. It’s estimated it could bring in annual net revenues in the range of $1.1 billion to $1.5 billion.

The other decongestion pricing option is distance-based charges that vary by time and location — meaning drivers would be charged for each kilometre they drive, but the amount would vary depending on where they go and at what time.

The analysis shows that a multi-zone distance-based charge could cost the average paying household $3 to $5 per day, or $1,000 to $1,700 per year. Fuel tax could be eliminated.

The exact number and boundaries of zones are still to be determined, but for the purpose of analysis eight zones were identified.

Capital costs — which include on-board units for all Metro Vancouver vehicles — could be in the range of $400 million to $700 million, with annual operating costs between $300 million and $500 million. If capital costs are annualized over 7.5 years, it’s expected that annual net revenue would be in the range of $1 billion to $1.6 billion.

TL;DR synopsis -- be ready to get raped again.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Lol think about the take out service like Skip the dish. Their drivers are going to get rape driving all around town to do delivers.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Lol think about the take out service like Skip the dish. Their drivers are going to get rape driving all around town to do delivers.

This would either make or break their business.

On one hand, people would think twice before driving. OTOH, their cost might go up so much that unless they charge a huge fee, it no longer makes sense.

Quite honest though, this is a political suicide if NDP is dumb enough to put it on. Translink is nowhere near to be able to provide an adequate service.

[68style]

^
Chicken and egg argument which came first?

Need money to build better infrastructure, they try to raise money for said infrastructure to be built but nobody wants to pay it with the primary complaint/criticism being that the existing infrastructure isn’t good enough to provide an alternative

[CivicBlues]

Explain to me why the fuck we're the only jurisdiction in North America looking into this garbage? It's like we're trying to be Singapore but with shittier food and weather. Or London with slightly better food and weather.

Same housing prices tho.

[Traum]

CB, we are definitely not Singapore with shittier weather -- at least the Singaporean government provides excellent public housing, and if I am understanding correctly, decent mass public transportation as well.

On the public transit front, as crappy as the Tube might be, it is still infinitely leagues and miles ahead of anything we have to compare.

[Ludepower]

Tax dollars had to come somewhere from the removal of toll bridges.
In return we get a carbon tax and mobility tax.
Well played NDP.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by 68style

^
Chicken and egg argument which came first?

Need money to build better infrastructure, raise tax for said infrastructure to be built nobody wants to pay it with the primary complaint/criticism being that the existing infrastructure isn’t god enough

No... it's a simple logistic view on the system.

We serve one of the longest distances in metro public transportation in the world, with one of the lowest population densities among major metros.

And yet, we got it horribly wrong in the system that should be in place.

We should have gone with hub model instead of line model. Meaning we should have had all big busses/Skytrains serving major transit hubs (increased frequencies) with small buses serving locally PLUS a big parking lot for people to park their cars if they choose to drive and/or don't have service in their area.

Instead, we have buses running all around the metro and yet the coverage/frequency sucks monkey ball.

Why did we have this in the first place? We have left Translink to grow without looking at the financial viability for far too long.

Every time... and I do mean EVERY time Translink needs money, it asks the people/gov't for it. It gets most of the time as they hide it behind the disguise of "building better infrastructure". They are not making it "better"... just longer.

There's no accountability... if Translink were ran as a private corporation, it had bankrupted long ago; meaning their model is not sustainable. Yes... most major transportation runs on public subsidies, but Translink doesn't even break even with all the subsidies.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Traum

CB, we are definitely not Singapore with shittier weather -- at least the Singaporean government provides excellent public housing, and if I am understanding correctly, decent mass public transportation as well.

On the public transit front, as crappy as the Tube might be, it is still infinitely leagues and miles ahead of anything we have to compare.

lol, exactly my point. Having spent a bit of time in both cities I find it hilarious that we try to emulate their draconian restrictions on vehicle traffic without even coming close to 1/10th of their public transportation options or vibrancy. i.e. "We need to have congestion pricing because...WORLD CLASS CITY!"

Originally Posted by Hehe

We serve one of the longest distances in metro public transportation in the world, with one of the lowest population densities among major metros.

Interesting....Source for this?

[yray]

village trying to be a city

let's all buy scooters and be like taiwan

[Ch28]

BRB never moving out of Vancouver or Burnaby

[Traum]

The congestion charge point concept seems to be significantly inferior than the distance-based option. Esp when the costs are what they proposed, I don't even know why the commission is recommending it as a possibility.

I am also quite surprised by the (user) cost of the distance-based option. As such a steep sting into your wallet, how does the commision expect to get any buy in from the general public?

[ImportPsycho]

We will shut up and bend over just like highest gas price in NA.
What are we going do about it? nothing. ride transit? lol
last time I checked, it will take me 2h one way on transit to get to my work.
Can't afford to live close to work, gets punished for living far out.

[MarkyMark]

Ah well, instead of going on vacation every year I can just put the money towards driving on the same fucking roads I always have been.

At least gas and housing is cheap!

[GS8]

Good to see these two idiots out in the middle of traffic

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Traum

The congestion charge point concept seems to be significantly inferior than the distance-based option. Esp when the costs are what they proposed, I don't even know why the commission is recommending it as a possibility.

I am also quite surprised by the (user) cost of the distance-based option. As such a steep sting into your wallet, how does the commision expect to get any buy in from the general public?

When was the last time they gave a fuck about the public and what we like, dislike and whether we do or don’t want something.

[bobbinka]

[tiger_handheld]

wtf is "North Road" is that the coquitlam / Lougheed north road?

[twitchyzero]

I live in Vancouver and work on north road and the lougheed area is not mucha bottleneck

i'm guessing one block before north rd the side streets are gonna be lit up with parked cars

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 320icar

When was the last time they gave a fuck about the public and what we like, dislike and whether we do or don’t want something.

If we kick and scream loud enough, sometimes there is still an effect.

At the municipal level, when enough people bitched at Moonbeam for paying big bucks to change the city logo, he conceded because it was easy to do, and wasn't anything of important. (If it were a bike lane like the proposal on Cambie Bridge, the fucker would never budge regardless of the amount of outcry.)

At the provincial level, when literally the whole province was cursing Crusty on the high housing costs, she gave it and implemented the foreigner tax when she realized the election was only a little ways away, and she could really stand to lose it.

At the national level, when basically the whole Canadian small business and professional sector came out to slam JT and Morneau regarding the proposed small biz tax hike, they realized they fxxked up and turned around to give the small biz sector a tax break.

So I'd say that, generally when we bitch, nothing of consequence comes out of it. But when enough people bitch loud enough, we could still change some things.

[mb_]

Originally Posted by Ch28

BRB never moving out of Vancouver or Burnaby

Great. This could cost me almost $10 each day to go to work. GG.

[snowball]

^me too

honestly I'd rather sit in shitty ass traffic than have my commute be "reduced" by 15 minutes and pay this shitty toll.

[320icar]

I’ve been saying for years, just toll every bridge and tunnel $0.25 per crossing 24h a day. No ones going to care or notice that little money, but it all add up and the public won’t be out to gut you like a fish

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Ludepower

Tax dollars had to come somewhere from the removal of toll bridges.
In return we get a carbon tax and mobility tax.
Well played NDP.

Carbon tax has been in place since 2008. Unless you're counting the whopping 1.1 c/L increase this year, the first increase since 2012.

[striderblade]

Can't wait for the day where we have to pay to breathe the fucking air here