[belka]

I guess majority of Canadian's are stupid because a majority of them voted left and wanted stricter gun laws.

You must be part of the moron group that doesn’t know what a “majority of Canadians” means. 33% of Canadians that voted, did so for Libtards. Cons got 35%. You’ve been sniffing too much gas at work sonny boy.

[Manic!]

You must be part of the moron group that doesn’t know what a “majority of Canadians” means. 33% of Canadians that voted, did so for Libtards. Cons got 35%. You’ve been sniffing too much gas at work sonny boy.

The NDP and Greens are also on the left.

[blkgsr]

Getting hit by a drunk driver isn't a choice either. Can I assume you'd back a law that bans alcohol as well?

i had a discussion with some friends about his gun ban on friday night (they're in favor, I'm not)

they said why are the guns necessary, i asked why are cars that can go 300km/h hour necessary?

people like those cars for show, sport, the feeling driving etc. i like the guns for sport, skill and enjoyment as well

my argument should have been as mentioned above. WAY more people are killed year by drunk drivers. why doesn't the government ban alcohol or make the penalty for drinking and driving min 1 year sentence or force every car to come fitted with a breathalyzer

i guarantee that would have more of these "gun hatters" out protesting against the government and their loss of rights

[belka]

i had a discussion with some friends about his gun ban on friday night (they're in favor, I'm not)

they said why are the guns necessary, i asked why are cars that can go 300km/h hour necessary?

Why do we have hobbies at all, why is anything necessary? Lets all sit at home cocooned in bubbles forever so on the off chance we don't die from something random.

gUnS aRe dESiGneD tO kiLl pEoPle

[MarkyMark]

The penalties for drinking and driving should absolutely be more stiff, especially to someone who actually kills a person by it. Why not ban alcohol? Because it's sole purpose isn't to kill something.

Guns are in a class of their own, everything else you list wasn't made for the purpose of harming people. Getting enjoyment out of a gun is just a byproduct of it, no one invented a gun thinking "this is going to be fun as fuck to shoot, and I guess if you really wanted you could probably kill someone with it too." It's always the other way around.

[welfare]

The penalties for drinking and driving should absolutely be more stiff, especially to someone who actually kills a person by it. Why not ban alcohol? Because it's sole purpose isn't to kill something.

Guns are in a class of their own, everything else you list wasn't made for the purpose of harming people. Getting enjoyment out of a gun is just a byproduct of it, no one invented a gun thinking "this is going to be fun as fuck to shoot, and I guess if you really wanted you could probably kill someone with it too." It's always the other way around.

What was the knife created for?
The vast majority of gun use in canada is hunting animals and target shooting, not killing humans. Many guns on that list are created for those specific purposes. Can they be used to kill people? Sure. And so can knives, cars, screwdrivers, baseball bats, etc. That doesn't mean that's what their specific purpose is, why they were purchased, and what they almost certainly are going to be used for.

[StylinRed]

It doesn't matter what the average joe buys a weapon for (self defense/killing animals)

You can't expect a weapon to get the same treatment a vehicle, or beverage gets, due to its inherent nature

You want it to be treated the same? You'll have to move the opinions of society, gl with that, it's not impossible

[EndLeSS8]

I remember a few years ago on RS, we had a conversation about pitbulls

I (young and dumb) agreed with the "ban on dangerous breeds" in BC
A lot of RS people stood up for pitbulls and their owners
I recognize I was wrong then, in agreeing with banning "dangerous dog breeds"

In a way, it's a similar situation right now, just with guns.
I don't own any guns, and I don't agree with this blanket ban of "assault style" guns. The term is so broad, and they are doing a knee-jerk ban, because "the gun looks scary"

Many of the rifles/guns, as mentioned, can be outfitted to look "scary" but they're the same rifle. This ban of "assault style" guns is pretty uneducated, and is a slippery slope for government enforcement.

[MarkyMark]

A knife has multiple uses, and the longer it's been around the more useful it has become among many industries and our daily lives. How have guns evolved over the years other than just getting better at shooting things? Pretty much everyone uses a knife multiple times in a week. Unless you're in a specific industry how often do you need a gun to accomplish a task?

[DGN23]

Some types of alcohol are banned in Canada. You can't sell pre-packaged drinks with caffeine with alcohol mixed. The Canadian government is not banning all guns just certain types.

https://fourloko.com/faq/q-is-four-loko-banned-in-canada

Company pulls products off shelves after a single death.


https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/fckd-up-after-teens-death-should-high-alcohol-high-sugar-drinks-be-sold-in-canada/

You're right, they aren't banning all guns. But they have said they plan on banning even more. I believe hand guns are next. But the guns they are banning are the ones they have said are the ones responsible for killing people.

I'm willing to bet that 99 out of 100 of all drunk driving related deaths (maybe even more) in this country can be attributed to the alcohol that is still legally sold and purchased by consumers today. And yet, those all remain on the shelves of stores across the country.

It's interesting that you posted a link about an underage teen who made a choice to consume a beverage illegally to try and build up your argument. Earlier you pointed out that a choice that someone makes that results in their own death and/or hardships doesn't deserve as much sympathy as people who are killed by guns.

Bottom line, she broke the law and choose to get her hands on something that she was not legally allowed to have, much like people who illegally obtain weapons.

[welfare]

A knife has multiple uses, and the longer it's been around the more useful it has become among many industries and our daily lives. How have guns evolved over the years other than just getting better at shooting things? Pretty much everyone uses a knife multiple times in a week. Unless you're in a specific industry how often do you need a gun to accomplish a task?

How have knives evolved? They got better at cutting. Because that's what they're supposed to do.
The point i was making is that the guns now being restricted in canada had rarely to never been used to kill people.
They've been used for their intention which is hunting and target shooting.
Fast cars kill people. Lots of them. Even though that's not what they were intended for. It could easily be argued that the harm they cause outweighs any enjoyment people derive from them. Because those that would argue that have no affinity for the hobby/sport/culture.

[MarkyMark]

How have knives evolved? They got better at cutting. Because that's what they're supposed to do.
The point i was making is that the guns now being restricted in canada had rarely to never been used to kill people.
They've been used for their intention which is hunting and target shooting.
Fast cars kill people. Lots of them. Even though that's not what they were intended for. It could easily be argued that the harm they cause outweighs any enjoyment people derive from them. Because those that would argue that have no affinity for the hobby/sport/culture.

The point has been beaten to death, the facts are everything else you list has a better function than killing something. You STILL HAVE your guns for hunting, no one is taking them away. You still have your targets that you can use your hunting guns to practice on. What have you lost?

[Hondaracer]

The question is how much longer will you have those guns you can legally use for hunting

How much longer before the govt. essentially makes your possessions worthless proactively.

[welfare]

The point has been beaten to death, the facts are everything else you list has a better function than killing something. You STILL HAVE your guns for hunting, no one is taking them away. You still have your targets that you can use your hunting guns to practice on. What have you lost?

I haven't lost anything. I've never even fired a gun in my life let alone owned one. I really don't even have much interest to.
I just think it's pretty shitty that people who've done nothing wrong are having privileges taken away from them without any facts or logic behind it. I think it's unreasonable. And i don't think it's going to result to much of anything that it's intended to do.

If they want to do something that will make a difference, it's pretty simple. enforce the laws that are already in place with stiffer penalties.
Penalize the criminals who commit 95+% of the gun homicides in this country. Not the people who are statistically more likely to obey laws.

[Bouncing Bettys]

If the supporters and authors of this gun ban, with their understanding of firearms, were cops:
https://twitter.com/sofain/status/1257730417190473729

[CivicBlues]

The question is how much longer will you have those guns you can legally use for hunting

How much longer before the govt. essentially makes your possessions worthless proactively.

HoW MuCh LoNgEr BeFoRe CaNaDa BeCoMeS a CoMmUnIsT DiCtAtOrShIp!?@@>!?@# :lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

[JD¹³]

He posed "imagine if you were the family of the slain RCMP officer and the Prime Minister of the country did absolutely nothing to curb these weapons from being on the streets?".
I agree with him, problem with the logic is this order does absolutely nothing to reduce the ability of criminals to get illegal firearms and keep them 'off the streets'. Law enforcement agencies across the country have told the federal government this repeatedly. We should be targeting criminals and their networks, not law-abiding citizens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHw70TiuDJo

You can't satisfy both sides to this argument, gun advocates will argue until they turn blue about losing their "rights" (since when did owning an assault rifle become a right anyways), either way, he ran on that promise, he was voted in on that promise, as such he's keeping his word. Isn't that what we want out of our elected officials?
So you're OK with your elected officials copy and pasting a list off the internet with no proofreading and enacting that in to law with no democratic process? Would you accept that for any law related to any property or industry? Is that how low people's bar is for their elected officials these days?

The whole "these guns came from across the border" argument is also somewhat asinine to me. It's the same walking while chewing bubblegum argument. Who says the Feds won't attempt to clamp down further on limiting that aspect as well?
Because they've already budgeted a paltry 87 million for border security for the next five years. Meanwhile actual subject matter experts say the cost of buying back all the newly outlawed firearms will be around a billion dollars, not 250 million. Now that's asinine

The irony here is if they did, you'll also be complaining, as that would result in deeper screenings and longer border lineups when crossing into Canada.
False hyperbole. No Canadian regardless of political stripe should accept a government copy and pasting laws with no democratic process. It's flat out wrong, not what this country stands for, and the exact opposite of what liberalism preaches: "philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed and equality before the law".

By the way Mike I'm not targeting you, you make clear arguments for your side that are repeated everywhere and I respect your position. I'm just trying to make you understand the other side. This whole situation goes well beyond firearms.

That doesn't mean that's what their specific purpose is, why they were purchased, and what they almost certainly are going to be used for.
Yup, and by this logic I shouldn't be able to privately own an airplane either.

They're going to ban more, they're going after almost everything. Word has already leaked that sidearms are next as are magazines and even optics. Word is anything over 3x power will be prohibited - which is outrageous and affects everyone who hunts. Unless you're indigenous then you're exempt. Indefensible hypocrisy and racism from our federal government.

[Manic!]

The law is here and the Liberal government is not going to change it. 5 out of the 6 parties with MP's in parliament support it. The conservatives can try to fight it in the next election but is this the hill they want to die on with all the problems we will be having because of cov19? Peter McKay being from Nova Scotia is going to have a hard time trying to push for looser gun laws.

[belka]

The question is how much longer will you have those guns you can legally use for hunting

How much longer before the govt. essentially makes your possessions worthless proactively.

Unless you are native, then you can keep your traditional way of life, hunting elk with an assault rifle with a 10x scope, like their forefathers before them.

[SkinnyPupp]

Poor natives, everything has gone their way for centuries BabyRage

[welfare]

^^another beauty liberal viewpoint. Trillions of dollars down the drain and nobody is any better off.
That's liberal solutions for ya.

[SkinnyPupp]

God damn lib tards

[Bouncing Bettys]

Swinging the pendulum in the other direction does not bring equality or justice.

[SkinnyPupp]

I agree, they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and live just like everyone else!

[welfare]

The soft bigotry of low expectations.
because 'requiring' preferential treatment couldn't possibly infer being less than others.
Let the results to these social policies speak for themselves.
More money, more poverty, more social tension...More lofty liberal solutions
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wetsuweten-pact-hereditary-chiefs-onboard-but-elected-chiefs-now-rescind-approval

[SkinnyPupp]

No I like your solution better for sure

Decades of persecution is OVER. Kids probably haven't even been raped a teacher in years!

All this money and what do we have to show for it? NOTHING. NADA. NIL. ZILCH.

I say WE take all that money BACK, and remove the TRAINING WHEELS from their culture. It's time they grow a pair, pull themselves up by their BOOT STRAPS and learn to be MORE LIKE US. Real Canadians. Now where's my gun, I need to protect myself, RCMP are useless.

Hope I got all the points right. I am just a lib tard.

[Hondaracer]

Damn Skinny you’re an expert on Native affairs as well? You’re amazing..

[belka]

Decades of persecution is OVER. Kids probably haven't even been raped a teacher in years!

BabyRage

All you libtards have are excuses for the failed reserve system and would prefer to continue shovelling money into a racist policy of preferential treatment for what happened hundreds of years ago. The drums of more payouts, I mean reconciliation, beat stronger by the day! :lol FailFish

[belka]

Looks like I can still buy cheap Chinese knockoff shit.

https://nationalpost.com/news/incoherent-liberal-firearm-ban-excludes-several-semi-automatics-potentially-outlaws-big-game-hunting-rifles

The Liberal government’s “incoherent” firearm ban excludes several rifles that are nearly identical to the so-called “military-style” firearms that Ottawa intends to outlaw, gun retailers say.

The ban, announced late last week, does not include the Chinese-made Norinco Type 97, for example, a semi-automatic version of the standard-issued rifles used by the People’s Liberation Army of China. Nor does it include the Russian-designed SKS rifle, the precursor to the popular AK-47; the Israeli-made Tavor .223, a semi-automatic rifle developed with the aid of the Israeli Defense Force, or the Canadian-made WK180-C, which gun publication CalibreMag said “functions much like an AR-15”, a firearm Justin Trudeau was at pains to highlight.

Liberals are so useless in every policy they introduce. What a joke. :lol Thankfully our streets will be safe now from shootings and scary looking black guns.

“You don’t need an AR-15 to bring down a deer,” Trudeau said.

Unless you are oppressed native, right libtards?

[Manic!]

Looks like I can still buy cheap Chinese knockoff shit.

https://nationalpost.com/news/incoherent-liberal-firearm-ban-excludes-several-semi-automatics-potentially-outlaws-big-game-hunting-rifles



Liberals are so useless in every policy they introduce. What a joke. :lol Thankfully our streets will be safe now from shootings and scary looking black guns.



Unless you are oppressed native, right libtards?


Don't worry it's only a matter of time before all guns are banned.

[Bouncing Bettys]

The soft bigotry of low expectations.
because 'requiring' preferential treatment couldn't possibly infer being less than others.
Let the results to these social policies speak for themselves.
More money, more poverty, more social tension...More lofty liberal solutions
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/wetsuweten-pact-hereditary-chiefs-onboard-but-elected-chiefs-now-rescind-approval
Just as Trudeau and the BC government are set to hand over power to the unelected hereditary chiefs May 14th. How democratic.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-wetsuweten-mou-1.5556511

[Raid3n]

Looks like I can still buy cheap Chinese knockoff shit.

https://nationalpost.com/news/incoherent-liberal-firearm-ban-excludes-several-semi-automatics-potentially-outlaws-big-game-hunting-rifles



Liberals are so useless in every policy they introduce. What a joke. :lol Thankfully our streets will be safe now from shootings and scary looking black guns.



Unless you are oppressed native, right libtards?

https://thepostmillennial.com/airsoft-gun-found-on-the-list-of-assault-style-firearms-banned-by-the-liberal-government

they also banned an Airsoft gun :lawl:

[Manic!]

https://thepostmillennial.com/airsoft-gun-found-on-the-list-of-assault-style-firearms-banned-by-the-liberal-government

they also banned an Airsoft gun :lawl:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/08/08/blackwaters-new-ar-15-bw15/

Technically Jurisprudence: firearms review; blackwater BW15 rifle (http://technicallyjuris.blogspot.com/2010/05/firearms-review-blackwater-bw15-rifle.html)

1.Yes we do offer the BW15 in more than just 5.56mm. As of now we are making them in 6.8mm and 7.62×39mm as well. The BW15 lower receivers are stamped Multi-cal.



This is why you don't read the post millennial.

[blkgsr]

Unless you are native, then you can keep your traditional way of life, hunting elk with an assault rifle with a 10x scope, like their forefathers before them.

hear many accounts of the declining moose population up north and the "locals" going in and mowing them all down (bulls, cows, calves) and taking them out on trailers stacked up as part of their hunting rights

same thing happens with the salmon

it's all bull shit

[winson604]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nHoD3DXaXQ

[belka]

hear many accounts of the declining moose population up north and the "locals" going in and mowing them all down (bulls, cows, calves) and taking them out on trailers stacked up as part of their hunting rights

same thing happens with the salmon

it's all bull shit

You know what the end result will be? They'll kill off everything and then go cry to the government for help. Like the junkies in the DTES, they need to be cut off from any assistance and be set free to fend for themselves.

[blkgsr]

not only financially but the open season at all times for hunting and fishing is almost worse

i agree, time to grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your own community and people. i'm all for continuing with programs like free post secondary education

[SkinnyPupp]

I love how my completely over the top satirical posts get repeated as actual real opinions on the same page EleGiggle

[blkgsr]

it's not satirical when it's true

[wreck]

how dare you guys undermine the custodians of the earth.

[welfare]

Reconciliation is nothing but an industry. Jody Wilson Raybould found this out the hard way.
Do you know who that is, skinny? Most Canadians now do. But as i recall, you didn't even know what the snc scandal was. Understandable, being thousands of miles away.
I'll bring you up to speed. She was the attorney general. Native lady. The highest position ever held by a native historically, in fact. Justin Trudeau had her demoted when she wouldn't let a proven highly corrupt corporation off the hook at his request.

Now let me ask you, skinny. You're the aficionado; what is meant by 'reconciliation' in this government's context? At what point exactly is it achieved? And, at least roughly, how much (more) is that going to cost? These are the most basic questions that any government policy should have answers for. I think Canadians deserve to know. Since they are the ones paying for it.

[JD¹³]

And here it is, no wonder they've been so hush on the details. The RCMP knew he had a history of domestic violence, illegal weapons, and RCMP uniforms and replica cars. And they did absolutely fucking nothing about it.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6935701/neighbour-reported-mass-shooters-domestic-violence-weapons-to-police

Tell me again how this has anything to do with legal firearms owners and isn't a complete failure of the police and limp dick justice system in this country. Absolutely shameful that the RCMP got one of their own officers killed in addition to the 21 other victims. I hope the RCMP is litigated by the victims families for many many millions of dollars.

[Vansterdam]

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-2574

https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/giii50/e2574_now_the_most_signed_epetition_in_canadian/

E-2574 Now the most signed e-petition in Canadian history.

Petition to the Prime Minister
Whereas:
The Prime Minister’s firearms confiscation regime, undemocratically imposed without debate during a pandemic while Parliament is suspended, is an assault on Canadian democracy;
Canada already has stringent regulations and comprehensive legislation related to firearms ownership;
Canada has millions of responsible, law-abiding firearms owners;
Data shows that the confiscation regime would not stop firearms violence in Canada;
The majority of firearms used in violent crimes are obtained illegally and/or are smuggled into Canada;
Legal firearms owners are strong advocates for measures that will actually prevent firearms violence;
Legal firearms owners in Canada are vetted on a daily basis through the CPIC system;
The Prime Minister is using the emotion of the tragedy in Nova Scotia to impose this confiscation regime even though all of the firearms the murderer used were illegally obtained;
The list of firearms to be confiscated is arbitrary and not based on functionality;
“Assault rifles”, or fully automatic firearms, have been banned in Canada since 1977;
Criminals who have illegally obtained firearms will not be impacted by this confiscation regime; and
The federal government is abandoning evidenced-based decision making as it relates to preventing firearm violence.
We, the undersigned, citizens of Canada, call upon the Prime Minister to immediately scrap his government’s May 1, 2020, Order in Council decision related to confiscating legally owned firearms and instead pass legislation that will target criminals, stop the smuggling of firearms into Canada, go after those who illegally acquire firearms, and apologize to legal firearms owners in Canada.

[StylinRed]

179k signatures, wow... Priorities aren't a strong suit for the Canadian right

[SkinnyPupp]

I'd actually consider supporting that petition. Now is not the time to get into a proper gun ban, but it wasn't the time to do the dumb "assault weapon" ban in the first place. They should reverse that decision, and go back to the drawing board when Corona is less of an issue.

[Bouncing Bettys]

If you support this ban, that's one thing. Neither side is budging. Agree to disagree.

However, I have to know if those same people are ok with how these restrictions after reading the Canadian regulations on firearms, knowing they were implemented through an Order In Council and were never up for democratic debate.

Canada' Criminal Code:
117.15 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Governor in Council may make regulations prescribing anything that by this Part is to be or may be prescribed.

Marginal note:Restriction

(2) In making regulations, the Governor in Council may not prescribe any thing to be a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or prohibited ammunition if, in the opinion of the Governor in Council, the thing to be prescribed is reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting purposes.

While our government was/is severely restricted from proper assembly due to covid, the government used an Order in Council to implement restrictions on the rights of citizens, preventing any means of debate or oversight. That sits well with you?

[SkinnyPupp]

If you support this ban, that's one thing. Neither side is budging. Agree to disagree.

However, I have to know if those same people are ok with how these restrictions after reading the Canadian regulations on firearms, knowing they were implemented through an Order In Council and were never up for democratic debate.

Canada' Criminal Code:

While our government was/is severely restricted from proper assembly due to covid, the government used an Order in Council to implement restrictions on the rights of citizens, preventing any means of debate or oversight. That sits well with you?
Yeah that's why I would consider signing the petition

[Manic!]

Oh shit looks like donald j trump signed it.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Bev-Oda/i-pVXwFZg/0/6935c1df/O/S1A.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Bev-Oda/i-sfmvDhP/0/da6b9da2/O/S2A.jpg

I wonder how many of those signitures are real.

I hope this is the hill cons want to die on.

[Manic!]

The CFR and other armchair gun experts made to look like fools.

https://nationalpost.com/news/trudeaus-gun-ban-appeared-to-ban-some-coffee-a-website-and-a-toy-heres-why?video_autoplay=true

[Vansterdam]

https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/gj7acb/current_state_of_canada_long_gif/

[Bouncing Bettys]

If you support this ban, that's one thing. Neither side is budging. Agree to disagree.

However, I have to know if those same people are ok with how these restrictions after reading the Canadian regulations on firearms, knowing they were implemented through an Order In Council and were never up for democratic debate.

Canada' Criminal Code:

While our government was/is severely restricted from proper assembly due to covid, the government used an Order in Council to implement restrictions on the rights of citizens, preventing any means of debate or oversight. That sits well with you?
The silence from those who support the ban and the method in which it was enacted, is deafening. Seems like a bunch of partisans, willing to sacrifice their rights to own their ideological opponents. Pathetic and terrifying in the face of democracy and person liberties.

[Manic!]

The silence from those who support the ban and the method in which it was enacted, is deafening. Seems like a bunch of partisans, willing to sacrifice their rights to own their ideological opponents. Pathetic and terrifying in the face of democracy and person liberties.

I could care less about what method the government used. You are only upset because it's happening to you.

https://i.imgur.com/bQz4p3F.jpg

[JD¹³]

This is a brutal read. More details emerge about what transpired throughout this event and it's horrendous. I feel for the officers on the ground who responded to this. Total failure by the RCMP at the leadership and organizational level.

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/a-nightmarish-crisis-and-the-mistakes-that-may-have-been-made-by-the-rcmp

[Mikoyan]

This is a brutal read. More details emerge about what transpired throughout this event and it's horrendous. I feel for the officers on the ground who responded to this. Total failure by the RCMP at the leadership and organizational level.

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/a-nightmarish-crisis-and-the-mistakes-that-may-have-been-made-by-the-rcmp

Yeah, that was brutal. The firehouse Blue on Blue shooting explains why they had announced at the time a use of force investigation at the time.

[Hondaracer]

Jesus Christ the ineptitude of it all..

[welfare]

Well when applicants to the force are receding, and they call on the social engineers to craft new recruitment regulations, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to see cases like this completely bungled.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-recruitment-gender-1.4954015

[JD¹³]

The silence from those who support the ban and the method in which it was enacted, is deafening. Seems like a bunch of partisans, willing to sacrifice their rights to own their ideological opponents. Pathetic and terrifying in the face of democracy and person liberties.
Total ignorance from a spoiled rotten generation who've never had to work or fight for the rights and freedoms they enjoy today. It's no surprise they're so soft and apathetic to those freedoms being eroded. When presented with facts against their virtuous opinions they go silent as demonstrated in this thread.

Hard times -> hard people -> soft times -> soft people (we are here) -> hard times....

[welfare]

Kudos to Ms Parker. I'll be quite interested to see how the case unfolds.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/court-challenge-seeks-to-overturn-federal-gun-ban/
The application names the Attorney General of Canada, the RCMP and the registrar of firearms as respondents, and requests any future hearing on the matter to be held in Ottawa.

According to the application, Friedman intends to call evidence to demonstrate the firearms banned under the regulation (SOR/2020-96) “are reasonable for use in Canada for hunting or sporting purposes” and “do not pose a disproportionate risk to public safety.”

The government’s “opinion to the contrary is not supported by the evidence,” Friedman argues, “and is therefore unreasonable.”

The legal challenge will include evidence from public health and firearms policy researchers, sport shooting and hunting experts and firearms engineers, the application states, to contest the language of the ban and to contradict “assertions made by senior members of government, including the Prime Minister.”

The evidence will demonstrate, according to Friedman, that “virtually every statement” contained either within the order or in various public pronouncements “is either false, out-of-context or otherwise misleading.”

[Manic!]

In two different polls a vast majority of Canadians support the gun ban.

Four-in-five Canadians support complete ban on civilian possession of assault style weapons - Angus Reid Institute (http://angusreid.org/assault-weapons-ban/)

https://web.archive.org/web/20200526162311/https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipsos.com%2Fen-ca%2Fnews-polls%2FEight-in-Ten-Canadians-Support-Federal-Governments-Ban-on-Military-Style-Assault-Weapons

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2020-05/gun_control-tables_1-2020-05-26-v1_0.pdf


If the cons make this an issue it's not going to turn out good for them.

[RRxtar]

The government of Canada's own report on the ban disagrees with your small sample size targeted polls

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2019-rdcng-vlnt-crm-dlg/index-en.aspx

[Manic!]

The government of Canada's own report on the ban disagrees with your small sample size targeted polls

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/2019-rdcng-vlnt-crm-dlg/index-en.aspx

To engage a diversity of key stakeholders in the dialogue, Public Safety held a series of eight in-person roundtables in four cities: Vancouver (October 22, 2018), Montreal (October 25, 2018), Toronto (October 26, 2018) and Moncton (October 29, 2018). Two sessions– each 2.5 hours in length – were held per day in each location.

A lot has happened since 2018 and people that show up to these meetings are usually heavily invested in the situation.

[RRxtar]

https://mobile.twitter.com/globalnews/status/1266152720098119680

What were you saying about polls?

[Manic!]

https://mobile.twitter.com/globalnews/status/1266152720098119680

What were you saying about polls?

An online poll where people can vote multiple times from any country, really? LOL!!!

The way Ipsos does a poll is completely different than an online poll. Online polls don't mean sh/t and can easily be manipulated.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet

https://www.buyvoteslikes.com/

https://www.buypolldaddyvotes.com/

[SkinnyPupp]

When the typical twitter poll on that global account gets under 1000 votes, and this one gets 20K votes, you know something is fuckey LUL

[Bouncing Bettys]

An update to this story. There needs to be a public inquiry.
The Nova Scotia shooter case has hallmarks of an undercover operation
Police sources say the killer's withdrawal of $475,000 was highly irregular, and how an RCMP ‘agent’ would get money.

Jun 19, 2020 Paul Palango, Stephen Maher, Shannon Gormley

https://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/GABRIEL-WORTMAN-BRINKS-04-JUNE17-767x431.jpg
A still from a video showing Gabriel Wortman in the Brink's yard on March 30, 2020.

The withdrawal of $475,000 in cash by the man who killed 22 Nova Scotians in April matches the method the RCMP uses to send money to confidential informants and agents, sources say.

Gabriel Wortman, who is responsible for the largest mass killing in Canadian history, withdrew the money from a Brink’s depot in Dartmouth, N.S., on March 30, stashing a carryall filled with hundred-dollar bills in the trunk of his car.

According to a source close to the police investigation the money came from CIBC Intria, a subsidiary of the chartered bank that handles currency transactions.

Sources in both banking and the RCMP say the transaction is consistent with how the RCMP funnels money to its confidential informants and agents, and is not an option available to private banking customers.

The RCMP has repeatedly said that it had no “special relationship” with Wortman.

Court documents show Wortman owned a New Brunswick-registered company called Berkshire-Broman, the legal owner of two of his vehicles (including one of his police replica cars). Whatever the purpose of that company, there is no public evidence that it would have been able to move large quantities of cash. Wortman also ran his own denturist business and there is no reason to believe it also would require him to handle large amounts of cash.

If Wortman was an RCMP informant or agent, it could explain why the force appeared not to take action on complaints about his illegal guns and his assault on his common-law wife.

READ MORE: The Nova Scotia killer had ties to criminals and withdrew a huge sum of cash before the shooting

A Mountie familiar with the techniques used by the force in undercover operations, but not with the details of the investigation into the shooting, says Wortman could not have collected his own money from Brink’s as a private citizen.

“There’s no way a civilian can just make an arrangement like that,” he said in an interview.

He added that Wortman’s transaction is consistent with the Mountie’s experience in how the RCMP pays its assets. “I’ve worked a number of CI cases over the years and that’s how things go. All the payments are made in cash. To me that transaction alone proves he has a secret relationship with the force.”

A second Mountie, who does not know the first one but who has also been involved in CI operations, also believes that Wortman’s ability to withdraw a large sum of money from Brink’s is an indication that Wortman had a link with the police. “That’s tradecraft,” the Mountie said, explaining that by going through CIBC Intria, the RCMP could avoid typical banking scrutiny, as there are no holds placed on the money.

“That’s what we do when we need flash money for a buy. We don’t keep stashes of money around the office. When we suddenly need a large sum of money to make a buy or something, that’s the route we take. I think [with the Brink’s transaction] you’ve proved with that single fact that he had a relationship with the police. He was either a CI or an agent.”

A Canadian retail banking expert speaking on condition that they not be identified says it is unlikely that Wortman was cashing out his own savings when he collected the money from Brinks after the money was transferred from CIBC Intria.

“When you come into my branch and you want a ton of cash, then I say, you gotta give us a couple of days. We put in our Brink’s order, I order the money through Brink’s, then when the money arrives, you come back into the branch, I bring you into a back room and I count the money out for you,” the banking expert said. “Sending someone to Brink’s to get the money? I’ve never heard of that before. The reason is, if I’m the banker, and you’ve deposited your savings in my bank branch, I’m responsible for making sure the money goes to the right person. If you want this money, I’m going to verify your identity and document that. I can’t do that if I’m transferring the money to Brink’s.”

In response to detailed questions from Maclean’s about the transaction, a CIBC spokesperson replied via email: “Our hearts and thoughts are with the families and the entire community as they deal with this senseless tragedy and loss. Unfortunately we are not able to comment on specific client matters.” Brinks did not reply to questions about the transaction.

The banking expert speculates that the RCMP could keep transactions relatively quiet by going through Brink’s instead of a bank to transfer money to a confidential informant or an agent.

“You can imagine that if someone comes in with large sums of cash, that stuff is not kept quiet. You don’t want that. Maybe what the RCMP was doing is they thought they could keep things quieter simply by transferring funds via Brink’s.”

At a press briefing on June 4, Nova Scotia RCMP Superintendent Darren Campbell seemed to rule out the possibility that Wortman was a confidential informant for the force. “The gunman was never associated to the RCMP as a volunteer or auxiliary police officer, nor did the RCMP ever have any special relationship with the gunman of any kind.”

The RCMP Operations Manual, a copy of which was obtained by Maclean’s, authorizes the force to mislead all but the courts in order to conceal the identity of confidential informants and agent sources.

“The identity of a source must be protected at all times except when the administration of justice requires otherwise, i.e. a member cannot mislead a court in any proceeding in order to protect a source.”

A spokeswoman for the Nova Scotia RCMP declined further comment after Maclean’s reported on the financial transaction.

“This is still an active, ongoing investigation,” said Cpl. Jennifer Clarke in an email on Friday. “All investigative avenues and possibilities continue to be explored, analyzed, and processed with due diligence. This is to ensure that the integrity of the investigation is not compromised. We cannot release anything more related to your questions.”

Maclean’s reported earlier this week that sources say Wortman had social relationships with Hells Angels, and with a neighbour, Peter Alan Griffon, who recently finished serving part of a seven-year sentence for drug and firearm offences linked to La Familia, a Mexican cartel. Sources say Griffon printed the decals that Wortman used on the replica RCMP cruiser he used in his rampage.

Sources say that RCMP in New Brunswick, not Nova Scotia, recently took over operational control of investigations into outlaw bikers in the Maritimes, which means that Nova Scotia Mounties may not have been aware of any connection to Wortman.

The RCMP Operations Manual identifies two types of sources: informant sources and agent sources. A law enforcement source said the force uses Brink’s to make large payments to agent sources, not informant sources.

“Informants are never paid more than a couple hundred at a time,” said a person briefed on RCMP operations. “Anything over $10,000 is agent money.”

Agents typically have greater responsibilities than informants. Only officers who have received specialized training are allowed to handle agents.

“An agent source is a person tasked by investigators to assist in the development of target operations,” says the manual. “Direct involvement and association with a target may result in his/her becoming a material and compellable witness, ie. a source used to introduce undercover operations, act as a courier for controlled delivers or act in place of an RCMP undercover operator by obtaining evidence.”

If the money was a transfer from the RCMP to an agent, there would be a paper trail through FINTRAC, the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, which tracks large cash transactions and suspicious transactions.

“Brink’s does the FINTRAC paperwork saying it’s coming from us, it’s from a chartered bank, and the RCMP liaison at FINTRAC signs off, handles the paperwork,” said a source briefed on the system. “The RCMP guys clear it or they refer it for further investigation. They manually clear those FINTRAC reports coming from Brink’s related to paid agents.”

The RCMP Operations Manual requires officers handling confidential informants and agents to send reports to the director of the Covert Operations Branch at National Headquarters.

Headquarters’ media relations office said in an email Friday that Campbell’s statement that the force never had a “special relationship” with Wortman “still stands.”

The attorney general of Nova Scotia, former RCMP staff sergeant Mark Furey, has said the province is in talks with Ottawa about a joint federal-provincial inquiry or review of Wortman’s murderous rampage.

Furey’s office did not reply before deadline to a question about whether the terms of the inquiry would allow inquiry counsel to pierce the powerful legal privilege that attaches to confidential informants.

Family members of the victims have complained that the process is dragging out. As calls for an inquiry mount, so does speculation about what happened, among both the general public and the RCMP.

One former Mountie says he doesn’t understand why Wortman would turn against the Mounties if they were paying him. “What seems inconsistent to me is why are you going to bite the hand that feeds you? If he’s getting money, and that’s a lot of money for an agent, or a CI, that part doesn’t make sense to me.”

The former investigator pointed out that if Wortman was acting for the RCMP, and receiving that amount of money, he would eventually be expected to testify.

"If he was an agent, he should show up on a witness docket.”

But another Mountie says, “This guy always wanted to be a Mountie. He was acting like a Mountie. He was doing Mountie things. It’s clear to me that something went wrong.”
https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-nova-scotia-shooter-case-has-hallmarks-of-an-undercover-operation/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
RCMP have a history of doing shady shit like attempting to convince that couple into committing an act of terrorism on the BC Legislature or bombing oil fields to crack down on environmentalists.

[underscore]

Every possibility I come up with in my head makes no sense when I put it together with everything else. Of course it's hard to go back through the info available because the whole thread is cluttered with gun b/s.

But what I can gather is:
- He was a partner in 2 businesses, and owned 6 properties totaling $1.2M in value
- He owns illegal firearms and an RCMP uniform of some kind
- He makes a replica RCMP car with help from his neighbour who works/worked with a cartel
- I haven't seen anything to say he actually drove it before this happened, the stills from Brinks show a plain white car and he had the assets to easily have a second car
- He gets $475k in cash on Mar 30
- Late in the evening Apr 18, he fights with his gf, 22 people are shot and buildings are set on fire (including his own house)
- At some point the next day 2 people who look like RCMP officers show up at a firehall being used as a shelter, shoot at it, and then leave?
- In the end Gortman is killed about 12 hours after the first report of shots and fires at a gas station

I haven't seen anything about comments from witnesses, a more accurate timeline of events or even a map of the killings/fires, one article mentions "wounded" so there should be some better info out there. But if the guy was some kind of covert RCMP agent, doesn't him having a replica RCMP car kind of ruin that? It's not exactly great cover to look like the people you're pretending to not be associated with. Those security camera stills are terrible to boot, how is that what Brinks uses for security? How can you even be sure that's him?

And where the hell is the cash now?

[68style]

^
Not saying I know what the full story is, but there's a bunch of trolls in that article which amounts to conjecture of the highest level.

I've seen hundreds of payments for CI's and other types of investigations. The article says they don't keep cash in the offices? Bullshit, I used to personally maintain a float of $100,000+ in an office that was used as flash money and CI's. Larger amounts? They said they have to go to Brinks or deal with CIBC for large cash pickups? Not a chance, we never used Brinks or CIBC for that matter, we dealt with Bank of NS and FINTRAC directly and everything was counted and double counted and signed off through multiple channels.

This nonsense about covering money trails with FINTRAC by asking Brinks to do it is a bunch of BS. That simply doesn't happen, at least not in BC, not that it matters, because we were managed out of Ottawa so it would be the same rules across the country. If the RCMP doesn't want anyone to know something, they 580 it, that's code for sensitive expenditures and any FOI request will end up with it being entirely redacted out. We work WITH FINTRAC, not against them. It takes like 3 ranks of signatures to take money out for ANY operation, nobody is going to risk their signing authority or criminal charges signing off to give shady money to people.

The claims being made are nonsense, I'm calling BS on most of this article.

[68style]

You try to take a large sum of money out at the bank, you get sent to pick it up at a special location, not your branch itself. It's arranged in advance too.

What's the more likely story? This Macleans "article" or someone taking out a shitload of cash from all the properties and whatever else they own right before committing a crime they had masterminded and expecting to be able to figure out a way to leave the country after with said cash? That seems like a far more likely explanation to me.

I mean come on... CI isn't gonna get paid $450k for info... lol... if that was the case every junkie in the city be lining up to hand over their dealer etc

[Hondaracer]

Yea, this guy was just a completely normal nobody who killed with legally acquired, Canadian bought guns.. :rukidding:

https://apple.news/AQsX7WFg3QIurcpL49NvnOg

[Hondaracer]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/new-documents-detail-the-guns-all-illegally-obtained-used-by-canadas-worst-mass-murderer

Turd Knew this information 4 days prior to the “Buyback” program announcement.

The RCMP union representing 20,000 coming out with statements saying this is not an effective way to curb gun violence and the root cause of criminals with firearms is illegal guns crossing the border where they say funds better spent

https://nationalpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberal-firearm-ban-unlikely-to-curb-gun-violence-rcmp-union-says-calling-for-evidence-based-policy/wcm/9d20078e-8642-4733-b77c-615766ba5b26/amp/?usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=16062641448597&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fnews%2Fp olitics%2Fliberal-firearm-ban-unlikely-to-curb-gun-violence-rcmp-union-says-calling-for-evidence-based-policy:

As part of that article, even after opening up for tenders on designing the project TWO separate times, and on the second time actually calling out companies they hoped would bite, nothing. No one wants to touch this with a 10 foot pole.

The federal procurement office has issued two separate requests for proposals (RFPs) to administer the program, but received no interested bidders in response, even after it explicitly named companies that it hoped might offer a bid on the contract, including accountancy firms Pricewaterhouse Coopers LLP and Ernst & Young LLP.

The latest contract, which closed Nov. 10, was offered at $78 million, according to one person familiar with the contract.

The liberal govts. conservative estimate is saying this program will cost 600 million dollars. Many, many publications that lie on both sides of the debate peg the figure closer to a billion dollar + debacle

[Tegra_Devil]

fuck the libs and their buy back....78 million HA!. they can maybe buy back the some scopes with that amount of money...good luck getting someone to trade in their $5,000 AR for $800.

This will just push gun owners to secret stash their firearms.....now you are officially moving weapons into the black...good job government.

[quasi]

Not shocked most guns used like this are obtained illegally. My sister dated a guy probably 15 years ago who had dual citizenship we found after they broke up and he got arrested that he was buying guns in the US legally, smuggling them across the border and then selling them to gang members and drug dealers on this side. The dumb fuck didn't stop to think that maybe some of these guns might get used in a murder or two and get traced back to him lol.

I'm sure there are lots of other dummies like him out there.

[6793026]

^ you would think he would remove the s/n onec it's in Canada prior to selling...

[Manic!]

fuck the libs and their buy back....78 million HA!. they can maybe buy back the some scopes with that amount of money...good luck getting someone to trade in their $5,000 AR for $800.

This will just push gun owners to secret stash their firearms.....now you are officially moving weapons into the black...good job government.

So making them criminals. I thought gun owners were law-abiding?

[CRS]

^ you would think he would remove the s/n onec it's in Canada prior to selling...

Even if you filed it down, there's technology now that can see through that and goes to the point where the SN was pressed into the metal.

[Tegra_Devil]

So making them criminals. I thought gun owners were law-abiding?

guess so and if they didnt do this, those gun owners wouldnt be criminals.:devil::devil:

better rat out your neighbours :fullofwin::fullofwin:

[underscore]

A good article from the CBC, but still not a lot of answers.

https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/nova-scotia-shooting-13-deadly-hours