Modern job hunting

[supafamous]

Tech is tough if you're entry level or intermediate but it's mostly manageable above that - definitely not the heyday of before and I've seen people eventually have to give up their hunt and go into other fields. I know a guy who I'd almost consider a peer who applied for over 200 jobs and reached final round a half dozen times before he landed a job that I considered a step back for him.

OTOH, I've helped 5 of my clients land new jobs in Q1 and helped several others land work through pro bono mentorship. I expect to have a couple more clients will land work this quarter as well. None of these people took a step back in salary either. Edit: I have also met a number of folks who leave me pretty unimpressed who end up with solid to great jobs that have me going, "YOU?! YOOOOOUUUUU?!" so there's obviously still work for below average talent (I consider myself an excellent talent evaluator.)

IMO, the biggest problem is fit and not the number of jobs (this is still a problem though) - hiring managers are looking for very specific skills and experience today. In the past we hired on potential and we liked generalists because we were hiring so much we could take risks on who we hired and we needed to be flexible about what the business needed. Now hiring managers know they only have 1 open head all year so they better make it count so they won't hire someone unless they are exactly the person they need so finding fit is really hard.

[EvoFire]

I sent probably around 50+ applications.

I got a response with 8 companies, 9 applications, interviewed with 8 of them.

1 was a previous recruiter that I knew
3 cold applications
5 referrals

I had 2 offers, and 3 final stage interviews

The one company I got a response from but didn't interview with was BCFerries. I applied in late December and they got back to me in March, 4 days before I was leaving for my trip, and I was at the cusp of accepting an offer. They were not going to be able to match the offer anyways and I told them I was going to be away and won't be able to take their interview.

There were honestly a lot more job postings than I thought there would be in tech, however because of the economic climate, companies were A LOT pickier than before. They weren't willing to waste a precious head count unless the candidate was absolutely perfect. Salaries were all over the place. I personally also think that a lot of the postings were fake. I applied to both Vancity and Royal Bank with a very strong fit resume but never got a response, not even a you weren't selected.

There are also a lot more scammy things happening. This started late covid, where recruiters would reach out and they'd try to get you to send them your resume but then ghost you right after. Having to vet through ppl who would message you adds to the complexity of an already shitty process.

I'm not seeing a huge amount of ageist things yet, at least not at 39. IMO with 13 years experience in my niche under my belt and multiple big companies on my resume, I'm not at a point where I am unwanted. I can see that being problem when I'm 50+. I have a very strong benefit of being able to speak proper English, where in tech, can be a bit of a premium quality.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by quasi

I have a friend in Washington State who came out of the military, finished his comp sci degree last year, and has had zero luck as that industry is kind of fucked at the moment. He's considering reenlisting but he never loved his time there.

If he's been in the military for awhile he should be able to transition to cyber defense pretty easily. Or get a US CPA as well and print SOC2 Attestations for $$$.

[teggy604]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

young people like high schoolers/early 20s complain they can't get jobs.

small business owners, especially in rural areas, complain they can't find enough workers and want more access to temporary foreign workers.

who to believe?

I feel kind of like blaming the kids? feels like compared to 20 or 30 years ago, less kids these days want to work in fast food/entry level jobs, but then complain they can't find employment. but I don't talk to teenagers much so maybe I'm wrong.

I agree. I don't see them work fast food anymore. Unlike our generation where we worked PNE, fast food, and physical labour jobs.


However, I do see them working at Starbucks. And retails like Aritzia, Sephora etc.. Maybe for the discounts. lol.

[Badhobz]

Almost all fast food jobs are held by east indian migrants
Most of the temp gig jobs are also dominated by EI imigrants
Sales /greeter job seems to be the last bastion of where your average canadian kids are finding employment.

Im not even sure where the chinese kids are working since i never see any of them around. Probably all playing Piano and/or trying to be some influencer bullshit.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Almost all fast food jobs are held by east indian migrants
Most of the temp gig jobs are also dominated by EI imigrants
Sales /greeter job seems to be the last bastion of where your average canadian kids are finding employment.

Im not even sure where the chinese kids are working since i never see any of them around. Probably all playing Piano and/or trying to be some influencer bullshit.

Fantuan

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

There were honestly a lot more job postings than I thought there would be in tech, however because of the economic climate, companies were A LOT pickier than before. They weren't willing to waste a precious head count unless the candidate was absolutely perfect. Salaries were all over the place. I personally also think that a lot of the postings were fake. I applied to both Vancity and Royal Bank with a very strong fit resume but never got a response, not even a you weren't selected.

Ghost/fake jobs are definitely a bigger thing today than they were a few years ago. This article did some research into the problem: https://clarifycapital.com/ghost-jobs

tldr: 27% of hiring managers have opening up for more than 4 months, close to half of those acknowledge that they kept the posting up for appearances sake (to make it look like they were growing). A third did it to placate overworked employees.

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I'm not seeing a huge amount of ageist things yet, at least not at 39. IMO with 13 years experience in my niche under my belt and multiple big companies on my resume, I'm not at a point where I am unwanted. I can see that being problem when I'm 50+. I have a very strong benefit of being able to speak proper English, where in tech, can be a bit of a premium quality.

Ageism in tech seems to start showing up in the late 40s and even then how you look makes a big difference along with how you talk about your experience.

That almost peer of mine that applied for 200 jobs is my age (~50) but he looks quite a bit older than me (big ol' bald spot, overweight) and was definitely getting some ageism both on looks and how he spoke about his experience. A former manager of mine is early 60s (looks older than that and has the cadence of an old person) and is absolutely getting aged out - he's getting pretty bitter about it as he's been looking for work for over 6 months now.

The threshold I see is when you have more than 20 years experience then you better be able to teach the job versus do the job and/or you stop talking about anything that happened more than 15 years ago.

OTOH, I sorta have the opposite problem to a degree. I look like I'm in my late 30s and since I'm doing coaching work it's important for me to state my level of experience and age to show that I have the experience they need in a coach. Some people assume I'm too young to be coaching (then I reference 80s pop culture and I'm an old fart).

[teggy604]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Almost all fast food jobs are held by east indian migrants
Most of the temp gig jobs are also dominated by EI imigrants
Sales /greeter job seems to be the last bastion of where your average canadian kids are finding employment.

Im not even sure where the chinese kids are working since i never see any of them around. Probably all playing Piano and/or trying to be some influencer bullshit.

Their parents are rich and get allowances. All they have to do is school full time in university. And do their piano or violin lessons. Lol

[underscore]

I haven't been actively searching for about 9 months now, but it was already slow back then and the number of recruiters randomly contacting me has dropped off a ton in the last 6 months so I'm guessing it's even worse. I have a similar problem to supa, apparently I look younger than I should for the amount of experience I have and it can be difficult to get people to understand I'm not entry level which probably doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Badhobz

I’m also very certain this ageism thing is real. They look at what year you graduated and instantly NOPE you out if you’re 40+. I guess they figure anyone who’s 40+ should already have their career path set and if they seek an entry into a different field they’ll instantly reject it.

Take the year off the resume. Part of my severance thing when I got laid off last year was some input from a company that helps you find a job and they completely reworked my resume and provided input on my LinkedIn profile and all that jazz, and it was very different from how I had it before.

They want to be searching on every site they can find as well. A lot of them may not be relevant to their industry but there should still be a bunch to be looking though and setting up alerts on.

[Badhobz]

i should start fat guy karate just like this dude. tackle and grapple!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hcJLpsZLIgI

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Ghost/fake jobs are definitely a bigger thing today than they were a few years ago. This article did some research into the problem: https://clarifycapital.com/ghost-jobs

tldr: 27% of hiring managers have opening up for more than 4 months, close to half of those acknowledge that they kept the posting up for appearances sake (to make it look like they were growing). A third did it to placate overworked employees.



Ageism in tech seems to start showing up in the late 40s and even then how you look makes a big difference along with how you talk about your experience.

That almost peer of mine that applied for 200 jobs is my age (~50) but he looks quite a bit older than me (big ol' bald spot, overweight) and was definitely getting some ageism both on looks and how he spoke about his experience. A former manager of mine is early 60s (looks older than that and has the cadence of an old person) and is absolutely getting aged out - he's getting pretty bitter about it as he's been looking for work for over 6 months now.

The threshold I see is when you have more than 20 years experience then you better be able to teach the job versus do the job and/or you stop talking about anything that happened more than 15 years ago.

OTOH, I sorta have the opposite problem to a degree. I look like I'm in my late 30s and since I'm doing coaching work it's important for me to state my level of experience and age to show that I have the experience they need in a coach. Some people assume I'm too young to be coaching (then I reference 80s pop culture and I'm an old fart).

The benefit of the Asian genes. Ditto if you have white hair. If you need to look old, let the white hair grow. If you need to look young, dye it all a medium to dark brown.

My problem right now is I want to move up the chain of command, but I had chased the money rather than the title before, and with the climate being the way it is, no one is willing to give me the chance because I never held the title despite doing leadership work.

[Hehe]

What's a job?





J/k aside, I own my own business so, I'm going to share from the other side of perspective.
I believe it can be useful for those who are looking for a job.

When I hire someone, my questions basically surround how much of my problem can you solve for me? The more problems (or % of the problem) one can solve, the better chance that person has of getting hired.

That's why for people who I know that they would never start their own business, I've always recommended them, continue to invest in yourself. The more problem you can solve, either vertically or horizontally, the better the chance you have at getting a job.

Going vertically, make you an ideal candidate for long term employee. Because your expertise matters. Going horizontally, makes you an ideal candidate for management material since if you know every aspect of the company, then managing them should be easier.

[Vansterdam]

trying to find a second part time job myself.

rough out there bruhs

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Hehe

What's a job?





J/k aside, I own my own business so, I'm going to share from the other side of perspective.
I believe it can be useful for those who are looking for a job.

When I hire someone, my questions basically surround how much of my problem can you solve for me? The more problems (or % of the problem) one can solve, the better chance that person has of getting hired.

That's why for people who I know that they would never start their own business, I've always recommended them, continue to invest in yourself. The more problem you can solve, either vertically or horizontally, the better the chance you have at getting a job.

Going vertically, make you an ideal candidate for long term employee. Because your expertise matters. Going horizontally, makes you an ideal candidate for management material since if you know every aspect of the company, then managing them should be easier.

that some useless jargony bullshit right there!

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

that some useless jargony bullshit right there!

iykyk.

But really... a lot of ppl today complain about not able to get a job and whatnot. Many don't make any effort. They just want a job that pays for their time there.

Very often, I ask a candidate, what do you know about this... and they give me answer that has zero inspiration. It's like I click on the icon, put some number in and this happens.

Worse, there's zero passion to advance in the work. Sure, we might not have the most lucrative industry, but still... at least pretend.

[Badhobz]

bro i dont think you've ever worked a normal job in your life.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

bro i dont think you've ever worked a normal job in your life.

I spent

4yrs at various entry level jobs
2yrs at London Drugs.
2yrs at a major laptop manufacturer as sales.
3yrs as sales at major M&A law firm.

Not sure what's normal but I think I did my time.

[Badhobz]

[MarkyMark]

I'm so happy I'm just a dumb tradie who doesn't have to answer bullshit questions with inspirational answers just to get a job lol