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Old 01-20-2015, 10:36 PM   #651
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I wonder if there are any penalty clauses and if there are how much?
I can confirm there is no bonus-penalty clause in the contract.

There was some crap about paying fees and consultant overheads if certain milestones weren't met, but obviously those are the ones that Kiewit rushed to meet.

Realistically on a project of this magnitude it would take a lot of balls to take a contractor on at a fixed price contract and then try and impose a bonus penalty clause on them as well. Those are balls our government doesn't have. If they tried to pull that shit, there would be have been even more ridiculous tender prices, with even higher contingencies.

On that note had there been anything in the contract, when you request a contractor to begin to accelerate a portion of the work, you are taking their autonomy from them to a degree, and therefore absolving them of any other missed milestones.

The project from a commercial aspect looks like a nightmare, and the planning was all sold on the optimistic side of the spectrum (as these things always are). So by the time someone with some level of actual constructability knowledge stepped in built a schedule, and looked at the options, they could likely tell that it was fucked up. So they built the schedule as if everything was okay, and then when things hit the fan, they just crashed the fucking thing and re-baselined the project. Then everybody and their mothers caught a smack and were told to fix it, unfortunately for them its hard to try and dig yourself out of a hole.
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:04 AM   #652
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Substantial completion originally for the project was December 2013.

Substantial Completion was actually achieved ~5 months late. In Summer of this past year, and the project certainly has not made any schedule advances in that period, if anything they have lost even more ground.
Oh trust me, I'm all too familiar with this concept. We do CCTV for an upscale restaurant chain you're all familiar with... not one of their new sites has opened anywhere near the final date we're given at the start of the project. A couple of sites (both their smallest and largest stores, ironically) finished close to a year over schedule. So to my thinking, 5 months over isn't too bad considering the relative scale of the whole project.

Of course, in our case, it's usually a case of the designers constantly changing things, with no real procedure for change controls. Then again, the same thing could be happening (probably is, in fact) with PMH1 - you get pencil pushers and bureaucrats hovering around and regularly making random changes that set one part of the construction back... which in most cases, sets other parts back... and when you have a tightly-coordinated schedule, the ripple effect can be just nasty.

Even one trade's delivery delays can have a major ripple effect - like if the flooring guys take delivery a week late of the super-fancy tile that has to come in from somewhere overseas, because a boat was delayed by a hurricane, that affects everyone with fixtures and equipment that sit on that tile... like all the kitchen equipment... which delays plumbing all that in... which potentially screws up the pipefitters who may already have other jobs scheduled for that next week... and so on.

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Seeing this kind of shit ALL THE TIME means I have a lot of sympathy for Kiewit on this. With all the different levels of government involved, I can only imagine how much hair their managers have lost.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:40 AM   #653
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Oh trust me, I'm all too familiar with this concept. We do CCTV for an upscale restaurant chain you're all familiar with... not one of their new sites has opened anywhere near the final date we're given at the start of the project. A couple of sites (both their smallest and largest stores, ironically) finished close to a year over schedule. So to my thinking, 5 months over isn't too bad considering the relative scale of the whole project.

Of course, in our case, it's usually a case of the designers constantly changing things, with no real procedure for change controls. Then again, the same thing could be happening (probably is, in fact) with PMH1 - you get pencil pushers and bureaucrats hovering around and regularly making random changes that set one part of the construction back... which in most cases, sets other parts back... and when you have a tightly-coordinated schedule, the ripple effect can be just nasty.

Even one trade's delivery delays can have a major ripple effect - like if the flooring guys take delivery a week late of the super-fancy tile that has to come in from somewhere overseas, because a boat was delayed by a hurricane, that affects everyone with fixtures and equipment that sit on that tile... like all the kitchen equipment... which delays plumbing all that in... which potentially screws up the pipefitters who may already have other jobs scheduled for that next week... and so on.

Spoiler!


Seeing this kind of shit ALL THE TIME means I have a lot of sympathy for Kiewit on this. With all the different levels of government involved, I can only imagine how much hair their managers have lost.
Before you feel too bad for Kiewit keep in mind that their contract is Design-Build. So if they have issues with people continuously changing things they only have their own engineers to be upset with.

I mean I guess you could say the government may have requested changes here and there, but I doubt it happened too much. I'd also argue that if the government, who basically knows dick, had to step in and request changes, the design by Kiewit must have been rather appalling.

I do know what you mean though, I've been on projects with owners and engineers as you are describing them, not much you can do. There is some opportunities that you can help yourself by knowing your contract, or by using proper change management procedures, but if the person doesn't want to play ball, then you can often find yourself struggling.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:09 PM   #654
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Looks like some interesting changes are going to be happening again this weekend

New patterns coming into effect on the Port Mann Bridge | News1130

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SURREY (NEWS1130) – It seems more people are dodging the Port Mann Bridge these days but if it is part of your daily commute, expect some big changes over the weekend.

A new pattern takes effect for westbound traffic on the now two-year-old bridge.

It is part of the planned separation of Coquitlam-bound traffic on Highway One from that going to Burnaby and Vancouver.

Greg Johnson with TI Corp, the company managing the bridge and highway, says drivers will have to make a choice in Surrey where barriers will soon split four lanes of westbound traffic.

“So, near the 152nd Street interchange, the highways can be split in two and drivers are going to have a choice to go straight or to go right using the new local-connection lanes. These lanes all re-join at the Port Mann Bridge, but drivers will have to watch for signs, and make sure they’re in the correct lane for their destination.”

Johnson says by summer you’ll have five lanes each way instead of four. “Drivers can choose any of the four lanes and cross the bridge as they would normally, but we’re encouraging drivers that are heading to Coquitlam using exit 44 for Lougheed highway, to stay to the far right.”

In the coming months, similar changes will be made for eastbound traffic.
I live in Surrey and work in Poco so I'm a big fan of this especially with all the idiots trying to cut in at the very front every morning.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:21 PM   #655
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Looks like some interesting changes are going to be happening again this weekend

New patterns coming into effect on the Port Mann Bridge | News1130



I live in Surrey and work in Poco so I'm a big fan of this especially with all the idiots trying to cut in at the very front every morning.
They need to do this westbound through the Cassiar, Fucking idiots take the mcgill exit lane all the way through the tunnel and cut the patiently waiting people off to get onto the 2nd narrows. I guess their time is just more valuable then everyone else's.
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Old 01-28-2015, 03:24 PM   #656
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They need to do this westbound through the Cassiar, Fucking idiots take the mcgill exit lane all the way through the tunnel and cut the patiently waiting people off to get onto the 2nd narrows. I guess their time is just more valuable then everyone else's.
I got cut off twice this morning cause of that shit, really annoying. I'm driving my winter beater so I don't care if you hit me!!!
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:07 PM   #657
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I got cut off twice this morning cause of that shit, really annoying. I'm driving my winter beater so I don't care if you hit me!!!
LOL, I miss my work truck for that you want to hit me go ahead but choooo chooo I'm coming through.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:29 PM   #658
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They need to do this westbound through the Cassiar, Fucking idiots take the mcgill exit lane all the way through the tunnel and cut the patiently waiting people off to get onto the 2nd narrows. I guess their time is just more valuable then everyone else's.
assholes are just going to be assholes. They can 'fix' every merger or exit and assholes will still find a way to be assholes
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:10 AM   #659
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Finally this is coming into effect, So happy I don't need to worry about people budging into my lane last minute when I go to work in the morning

Major traffic pattern change coming to Port Mann Bridge this weekend | News1130

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COQUITLAM (NEWS1130) – Big changes are coming for westbound traffic on the Port Mann Bridge this weekend.

Full lane-separation takes effect Saturday, meaning two lanes on the bridge bound for Lougheed Highway will be split from three through-lanes using concrete barriers.

An interim system has been in place for a few weeks now, but the changes mean you’ll have to decide in Surrey whether you’ll exit for Coquitlam or continue on Highway 1 toward Burnaby and Vancouver.

Similar changes for eastbound traffic are planned in the coming weeks, as crews prepare the crossing for its full 10-lane configuration. HOV drivers needing to access Lougheed Highway will need to move to the far right well before the 152nd Street interchange.
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Old 03-03-2015, 02:22 PM   #660
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Finally this is coming into effect, So happy I don't need to worry about people budging into my lane last minute when I go to work in the morning

"HOV drivers needing to access Lougheed Highway will need to move to the far right well before the 152nd Street interchange."

Major traffic pattern change coming to Port Mann Bridge this weekend | News1130
Hmm.. So if I take 152nd overpass and get onto Highway 1, I can't go to Lougheed Hwy? wat.
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Old 03-03-2015, 02:26 PM   #661
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Hmm.. So if I take 152nd overpass and get onto Highway 1, I can't go to Lougheed Hwy? wat.
Yes you can, there will be 4 different lanes and the far right lane will take you to lougheed hwy and the bypass. They are talking about being on hwy #1 you need to move to the far right before hand.
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Old 03-05-2015, 06:24 PM   #662
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Finally this is coming into effect, So happy I don't need to worry about people budging into my lane last minute when I go to work in the morning

Major traffic pattern change coming to Port Mann Bridge this weekend | News1130
realistically, the budging will just happen further back in Surrey. Sorry but douches will be douches
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:52 PM   #663
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Not sure if people know but you can take the coquitlam exits to prevent going down Johnson hill with two lanes merging into one

Jump into the left lane (152 westbound on ramp) and you will rejoin onto the bridge being in the centre lane
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:40 PM   #664
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realistically, the budging will just happen further back in Surrey. Sorry but douches will be douches
Yes, but you won't have everyone from Hwy. 1 *and* everyone from 152nd grouped together onto the bridge and then budging in and out of the exit lanes mid-span. Cars from 152nd will also have to decide whether or not they're getting off at Cape Horn, BEFORE they get onto the bridge.

Realistically, there's something about bridges that lower driving IQ about twenty points and people seem particularly prone to either panic or confusion (or both) while going over a bridge... so, you move that decision of which destination they want to BEFORE they get onto the bridge, and you're hopefully removing the panic, reducing the confusion, and moving what confusion is left, to where its effect on traffic flow is less.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:08 AM   #665
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So I just received an email from Treo and tolls are going up toe $3.15 each way starting mid Aug... I swear I'm going to blow up Treo offices fucken tired of them screwing us.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:18 AM   #666
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So I just received an email from Treo and tolls are going up toe $3.15 each way starting mid Aug... I swear I'm going to blow up Treo offices fucken tired of them screwing us.
If you blow up their offices i'm pretty sure the tolls are going to go up A LOT more than 15 cents...
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:47 AM   #667
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This is why I live on the West side of the Fraser. Move to Pitt Meadows and don't pay any tolls.
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:52 AM   #668
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So I have a 3 dollar credit for double paying for my car... now they are going to charge my mastercard .15 cents
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:20 PM   #669
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I didn't realize the cost for a tractor/trailer is that high

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Old 07-30-2015, 12:51 PM   #670
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All the big rigs driving in the middle of 2 lanes on the patullo did
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:55 PM   #671
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I was talking about this with a coworker today, who takes the Port Mann everyday - obviously he's pissed. He also bet me that they're going to raise it further when we get closer to the closure next year.

Why is it that people who get paid a lot, can't seem to realize that usage is down because the cost is high? Raising the price further may make you look better in short term spreadsheets and PR events, but in the long-run, is asinine.

BC Ferries, Canada Post, TREO - they all bitch that nobody is using their service, so they're forced to jack up prices. If the fucking dingbats realized that people would use it more if it were more affordable.

Incredibly ironically, the only public corporation in recent memory that lowered their fees was ICBC lol.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:22 PM   #672
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^ i've always wondered about that
i don't have an economics or business oriented background but doesn't it make more sense to lower prices and watch users increase and let that drive the business model?

at the very least, introduce some sort of really cheap introductory rate to hook users in and then when they realize their life would suck without it then up the prices

i wanna know what the reasoning is behind (not just bridges) but other businesses overall raising their prices to retarded levels then bitching about the lack of customers/users.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:39 PM   #673
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^My uneducated guess would be because by raising prices, people that have no choice but to use that service, would continue to do so at higher cost.

Then, the numbers (in the short term) would show recovery, and they can all pat themselves on the back and get bonuses and raises.

But in the long term, more and more people will find alternatives, and stop using the service alltogether.

As a personal example, I used to send out Christmas cards every year because it's exponentially more personal and heartfelt than sending an e-mail, or some stupid e-card.

Now, I don't.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:13 PM   #674
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yeah, but in this day and age, there are always alternatives.

if my favorite restaurant upped its prices by (what a majority of people would consider) unreasonable amounts then I would simply stop going.
Same could be said with clothing stores and other services. If Netflix upped its prices to $15 next month, i'm finding another alternative or i'll go back to pirating. There are always options.

I don't know if big businesses are just slow to catch on but as stupid as this generation can be at times, we're pretty resourceful in a sense that we'll go out of our ways to stretch our dollar, particularly in a place like BC.

The Bay is a great example of this...how they're still in business is nothing short of a miracle.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:14 PM   #675
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i take the bridge nearly every weekday. i am more than happy to pay the $3 in exchange for the time i save in commuting, $6 a month more makes little difference to me at all.

what does suck is now when i have to take the pattulo or alex fraser and they are packed now. i think the govt needs to get rid of the one free crossing policy and implement tolls on all bridges, they can put the money towards translink or whatever, i just want to see fewer people on the road and shorter commutes and i dont mind paying $100 a month to see that happen
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