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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhillon09
Bullying was never just fights, it was name calling, exclusion, and lots of other passive aggressive behaviours. Dealing with bullying on your own allows your personality to become calloused and for you to grow 'thick skin'. You might wonder why an 9 or 11 year old needs thick skin, life is hunky dory with 2 parents, food on the table, and no bills to worry about.
Agree, life sucks and then you die. A person needs to learn to deal with the shit that life throws their way.
Anyway, just as a side note, it takes a stronger person to help the weak than to beat the crap out of them.
It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.
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Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.
Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.
"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
Except, humans have the ability to think......... the weak?
Einstein was pretty frail guy. So were a lot of scientists, artists, musicians, etc. We need these "gifted" people.
The pen is mightier than the sword. If we went back to the days of beating the weak and go Nazi, we would not be where we are.
I enjoy celebrating everyone for who they are, because it makes this god forsaken planet liveable. Just presenting it from a different view.
In my preteen days, I was a pretty frail guy. When I grew up, I was a bit of a bully. Went the alpha route. Since then, I have realized it's dumb and..........
.......anyway, getting a headache from thinking too much right now. RS is supposed to be relaxing, LOL.
BTW, I regret being a bully. To this day, I feel bad for the shit I did to others. When you grow up in a "fuck or get fucked neighbourhood", you tend to go to the dark side. Thank god I changed. Didn't find god or anything like that........ just woke up one day and and realized it's just wrong.
Perhaps if there were pink shirts back then, I may have changed earlier...........
I dont necessarily mean weak as in physically weak. I mean weak minded, weak willed, and week spirited. The kind of person who puts his tail between his legs and sits in the corner at the first sign of adversity
I didnt read through this entire thread.... But I'd like to contribute to this topic from another perspective. I totally understand where your coming from OP, because now that we are all out of elementary school, we don't know what happens in there anymore. We only see what we see in our own daily lives. But I work for the Burnaby school district (SD41) as an S.E.A so I work in the direct environment where bullying happens most. I work more in elementary schools, so most of my observations are derived from my experiences there, as opposed to high schools.
I am working on call right now so I travel to many different schools within SD41. Pink shirt day is a big deal, not because it will END bullying...but it creates awareness and helps spread a positive message. I noticed classrooms preparing for the day even weeks before hand. They have T-shirt sales, bake sales, awareness assemblies and even a flashmobs. Heres a link of a big one that involved many Burnaby schools.
It may seem stupid, but when they played this video on the big screen during assemblies, everyone was laughing and clapping, singing along and having a great time. Even the teachers. After one of the assembly's, I saw students during lunch were trying to re-create the dance and many students got together and were singing and dancing...even students who don't normally hang out together. On top of that, everyone was wearing pink shirts so its just really awesome to see and I'm sure it helps remind other students that this is the time of month were practicing being extra good to each other.
Like I said, it creates awareness. Such things as pink shirt day may not be as influential in high school's where social image is so important, but in elementary schools I have noticed it promotes a school wide environment of acceptance and friendship. I noticed more so than stop bullying, pink shirt month ENCOURAGES students to be altruistic and helpful and just extra kind to eachother in general. You wont believe the way kids interact with one another during Pink days. Students with disabilities and handicaps are treated with so much kindness and patience, its really heart warming. Yea once the whole pink thing is over, the energy dies down and the enthusiasm isn't as maintained. But during this phase, many students will develop new friendships, learn about acceptance and have a reason to practice these new skills being taught. Skills like conflict resolution...how to talk to a bully....how to deal with a bully...what to do if you see someone being bullied...how to become friends with a bully...etc. It's all positive.
Because of the assemblies and stuff, it really does become a school wide project and it seems like a lot of fun for everyone. These are just my observations from the last 4-6 schools I have been to. I've observed first hand that this truly does have potential to leave a positive impact on students.......so if we're talking about pink shirt days..its not all bad, especially in these elementary schools where early awareness on these issues will really help prime them to become socially competent members of school and society.
And something I think is important is a kid whos been bullied by the same bullies for 6 months or 2 years or whatever, that is well passed the time where a change can be made. The kid has already been labeled a target and has been placed on that low rung of the social ladder. Dealing with bullying begins before the pecking order even begins. You need to set yourself up to be placed as high on that ladder as you can.
Getting picked on is like getting friend zoned, once you're there, you're pretty well there for good.
How you teach that to a 6 year old tho, I have no idea.
I didnt read through this entire thread.... But I'd like to contribute to this topic from another perspective. I totally understand where your coming from OP, because now that we are all out of elementary school, we don't know what happens in there anymore. But I work for the Burnaby school district (SD41) as an S.E.A so I work in the direct environment that where bullying happens most. I work more in elementary schools, so most of my observations are derived from my experiences there, as opposed to high schools.
I am working on call right now so I travel to many different schools within SD41. Pink shirt day is a big deal, not because it will END bullying...but it creates awareness and helps spread a positive message. I noticed classrooms preparing for the day even weeks before hand. They have T-shirt sales, bake sales, awareness assemblies and even a flashmobs. Heres a link of a big one that involved many Burnaby schools.
Like I said, it creates awareness. Such things as pink shirt day may not be as influential in high school's where social image is so important, but in elementary schools I have noticed it promotes a school wide environment of acceptance and friendship. I noticed more so than stop bullying, pink shirt month ENCOURAGES students to be altruistic and helpful and just extra kind to eachother in general. You wont believe the way kids interact with one another during Pink days. Students with disabilities and handicaps are treated with so much kindness and patience, its really heart warming. Yea once the whole pink thing is over, the energy dies down and the enthusiasm isn't as maintained. But during this phase, many students will develop new friendships, learn about acceptance and have a reason to practice these new skills being taught. Skills like conflict resolution...how to talk to a bully....how to deal with a bully...what to do if you see someone being bullied...how to become friends with a bully...etc. It's all positive.
Because of the assemblies and stuff, it really does become a school wide project and it seems like a lot of fun for everyone. These are just my observations from the last 4-6 schools I have been to. I've observed first hand that this truly does have potential to leave a positive impact on students.......so if we're talking about pink shirt days..its not all bad, especially in these elementary schools where early awareness on these issues will really help prime them to become socially competent members of school and society.
Too bad that shit won't stick in the high schools. I can only speak for South since I'm a graduate from there, but they didn't give two flying fucks about bullying when I attended. I doubt they do now either. It's like a few other people have said, you either stood up for yourself and they backed off, or you turned tail and ran which made things worse. Too bad I didn't learn that until grade 12. I was that student that thought being nice to everyone would make sure I made it through unscathed. No such luck. If you don't fight back, no one is going to fight for you.
Oh and Sid Vicious, your example of bullying making the person act on it. Well it has one flaw, once the item they were making fun of you for is gone, they move onto something else. And it could be something entirely made up.
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"Can you match my resolve? If so then you will succeed. I believe that the human spirit is indomitable. If you endeavour to achieve, it will happen given enough resolve." -- Monty Oum
I think pink shirt day is definitely more of a preventative tactic. Fleeing or fighting is a decision you make in the moment when bullying is happening right now. Things like pink shirt day is in hopes to reduce the likelihood of bullying, before it happens. Take it for what it is. If your immediately in a situation where your being bullied and beat up, its not like pink shirt day is going to save you right now in the moment.
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There are so much politics within the school system from union hierarchy to school administrators that their own freaking staff members are having bullying problems of their own.
They can't even handle their own bullying problems, what can we expect from the school to protect the kids from bullying.
Perhaps if they reformed the school system from being the bureaucratic pile of crap it is now, this bullying problem could be dealt with.
I disagree with this. I know people who were beat by their parents on a daily basis who were the nicest people I've ever hung out with. And a lot of the "bullies" in my high school were kids with great home lives. So to say that all bullies are "beat by their dads" is very generalized and most likely very inaccurate. And yes I'm aware that environment usually plays a big factor in how people turn out, but it could be something as simple as the kids get whatever they want so they figure, hey why not.
Wow didn't expect to get failstormed for that... it was my dumb way of joking that bullies generally have problems in their lives, which is why they lash out at other people. Guess I didn't make it clear enough sorry
even a flashmobs. Heres a link of a big one that involved many Burnaby schools.
NO. Just no. The shirts are awareness enough, but these "flashmobs" do NOTHING to bring awareness to bullying, and may even create ammo for a few bullies. Yes, collective organization for a cause is cute and all, especially for kids, but anti-bullying "flashmobs" are just as useless as doing nothing to prevent bullying from happening. You want to make a difference where you get people's attention? Run a pamphlet or poster campaign in malls instead.
The Vancouver Water Fight is a flashmob. That dinner where a bunch of people dressed in white and brought their own tables and whatnot and dined at Canada Place, is a flashmob. A bunch of kids dancing to today's crap pop to show their stance against bullying? THAT IS NOT A FLASHMOB. A flashmob should have no cause tied to it, it's simply a random gathering of people to be silly or do something cool. You don't see the Vancouver Water Fight raising awareness for testicular cancer.
/rant. Sorry, but when I see these anti-bullying "flashmobs" in the news, it bugs me since it's not even one, it's more of an "awareness dance".
^ I totally see what your saying. I guess it technically is not a flashmob, I agree with that. And as an observer looking in, it could be ammo to make fun of them even more, and maybe it is not the best way to spread awareness.
But think about what the organization and participation of that whole event meant to students who were involved. For them, the whole process and participation is a really meaningful learning experience and at the very least, for them, being involved in it probably has helped teach them more about bullying..and in a fun and interactive way too. Many people judge the whole pink shirt movement as observers just understanding it from how we see it within our lives...But we are adults now. We don't really see the whole thing from a gr.4's perspective. But I am just trying to say that for many younger students in the elementary level, pink shirt day is not a bad time. Schools actively use this opportunity to do a lot of teaching about bullying and help ensure that their students are promoting bully free environments. From the actual kids' perspectives, I'm just trying to say that its not all bad. That's all. But I totally see your point too.
I think the most annoying thing about Pink Shirt Day is the idea that we/it can eliminate bullying. I really agree with a lot of the people here who say that bullying is a part of life and the best thing to do is find a way to stand up to the bully. Like Ulic says: being fat, stupid, smart, tall, short, skinny...whatever. Those are convenient things to say because the bullies can smell the fear. But days like this make it even more challenging to find a way to get rid of the bullying. These days make people feel like things are getting better when things aren't really changing.
ttk5 you're right, we don't see things from a 9 year old's perspective. But that's because those kids are still developing and aren't old and mature enough to see the hypocrisy of the fact that you can be a part of PSD or some giant organization like that, and then turn around and make fun of one kid for being loud and excited. Or quiet and shy. They don't see it as bullying. That's not bullying, that's just making fun of a kid. That's just making a joke. But that kid is still hurt. And that kid is still afraid. And that kid is not only afraid of the bully, but of what'll happen if he freaks out and snaps at the bully. Add to that it's even worse that it happens on PSD, the day bullying is supposed to not exist.
The kids most likely to be punished by teachers are the good ones--if they do anything bad. "From [insert douche kid's name here] I might have expected something like that. But from you? I expect better." So the kid who's an asshole gets at most a slap on the wrist which does absolutely fuck all, and the good kid gets raked over the coals to 'teach him a lesson that these kinds of actions are inappropriate'.
The best way to help end bullying? Let the fucking kids work it out. Stop making the kids who are getting bullied get punished for standing up to their bullies. Follow the example of JudoDad. You want to help end bullying? Teach the bullied kids ways of getting over it. Making jokes. Being the bigger man. Learning comebacks. Getting revenge a la Ulic. Kicking ass a la JudoGirl. Teaching the bullied to get stronger is going to make a FUCKTON more difference than trying to change the bullies' behaviour. Because you know what? When you eliminate weakness, you eliminate bullying. And it's a lot easier to teach kids ways around their weaknesses than it is to keep a constant nonstop eye on bullies.
I was going to make this an edit to my last post, but it got a bit out of hand.
Also, I'd like to take a quick second to make a distinction between criticism (the example of the kid who couldn't pass) and bullying. People being told they can't do something well because they can't do something well is great. Everyone needs to know what they suck at so they can improve. Some people react differently to different stimuli, and that means some kids need encouragement and others need criticism. But we can't mollycoddle our kids and pretend that they'll never be criticized. Some parents think that any kind of negative is automatically bad and harmful. Bullshit.
There was a really interesting article I read awhile back--can't remember where it was--discussing an interesting dichotomy in schools in the US. In cerebral classes like English and Math, everyone's being told to essentially lower the bar: don't fail anyone, be nice, let them proceed at their own pace, all that shit. But then you turn to the gym and the sports teams, and there are coaches who make their kids run laps and do pushups when they miss shots, who scream and yell and make the kids cry because they aren't working hard enough. And those coaches? Lauded by parents. Praised by the kids. "I didn't know how good I could do; I didn't realize how much more I could give until Coach pushed me that hard. He's a great guy, I'd never be where I am now if it wasn't for him."
Since when did accepting mediocrity become the standard for today's life? By telling everyone that they're special, we're telling nobody that they are. We have honours classes at schools, because we acknowledge that some kids are smarter than others. But we're getting rid of the Learning Assistance and "principles of..." classes, because 'There are no stupid children.' Fuck that. If there's smart kids, there's stupid kids. Failing to acknowledge this is just another example of the Politically Correct Police getting ready to fuck an entire generation up the ass by pushing them into classes they don't understand and are being set up to fail in.
Bullying is one thing. Criticism another. Pushing yet another still. As many others have mentioned earlier in this thread: we all have a predatory nature. And to deny this nature is to deny the drive and goal to succeed. Because you know what? There's only one winner. And everyone else loses. So why does everyone keep thinking that "everyone can win together"? Sorry, but there's a reason this face exists:
GRANBURY, Tex. — At 7:15 a.m. on Monday, the girls’ basketball team at Granbury High assembled for practice. As always, shirts had to be tucked in, hair pulled back. If a shoelace came untied, it meant running the bleachers. Questions had two acceptable answers: Yes ma’am and no ma’am.
Sure, Coach Leta Andrews had her lighter moments. She might show up at practice in a crazy wig; once she even wore a bikini. But joking around is not how she got her name on the local water tower for winning more basketball games than any high school coach in the country — 1,346 victories, an average of 27 a season, in her 49-year career.
...
“She’s a tough coach,” Jordan said. “She doesn’t let you slack off. Sometimes she makes us cry, but we know it’s for the good. I can’t picture high school without her.”
Former players stay in touch. In 1996, Andrews traveled to Atlanta to cheer on Amy Acuff, who had played for her championship team in Corpus Christi and was now competing in the Olympic high jump. Three years ago, shortly after having stents implanted in a blocked artery, Andrews drove eight hours to attend the funeral of Cerny’s mother.
Acuff, a four-time Olympian, said: “I think people often are afraid to discipline kids; they feel it is too harsh or that the kid won’t love you. But I think the root of respect and love is a person expecting and demanding that you be as good as you can be every single moment.”
Andrews longs for more diversity on her team and more gym rats, players who want to win as badly as she does. “Don’t run around like a chicken with your head cut off,” she scolded her offense Monday. But she is not ready to retire. The only win that is important, she said, is the next one.
“I’m not ready to turn this over to these younger coaches,” Andrews told her husband recently. “They just don’t demand enough.”
Last edited by Graeme S; 03-01-2013 at 01:28 PM.
Reason: Added article
What's going to happen to all these kids nowadays, with the no fail school systems and no score soccer matches when they enter the work force is a scary thought. Your second last post Graeme summed up my thoughts perfectly. Teaching kids to overcome adversity has a far stronger positive effect than attempting to eliminate adversity.
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