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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 08-28-2011, 09:25 PM   #26
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^ so what would happen to a car with no VIN on the dash? I don't think JDM cars came with them.
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:52 PM   #27
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JDM cars gets a vin plate made when they're registered in bc I believe.
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:14 PM   #28
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nope, that changed years ago. I still have the JDM VIN
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Old 08-30-2011, 02:12 PM   #29
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Same with eurospec cars, no VIN.

I must say I love it when I see authority figures looking around the dash for a good minute or so, then go open the door and do the same and still have no idea where it is. Its under the hood held on by two phillips screws, so if I had two identical cars I'd only need one plate..

However same car, same year, but US spec has the VIN stamped on the dash, on the rear trunk, door jamb, motor head, underneath on the frame and probably a ton more I didnt see
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Old 08-30-2011, 07:10 PM   #30
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I'm not going to spend a lot of time playing VIN hide and seek. It must be there and it must be visible. If I can't find it then the car gets removed until the driver can prove that the plates belong to that car.
But that is being claimed "Guilty until proven Innocent". who is gonna pay for the tow truck fee when you start towing wrongfully accused cars? You cant just tow every vehicle cause you cant see the VIN. Like someone elses mentioned, BC assigned VINs are in the doorjam. not visible to the outside. and also fully legal. Probably 0.25% of cars on the road or even less are driven in a manner which you are talking about, but yet 100% of cars without VINs will be towed?
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:54 PM   #31
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JDM cars: if these cars have 2 same VIN's on the vehicle, then it will not need an BC assign vin.

There are certain cars, only manufactured with 1 vin. If these vehicles only have 1 vin, ICBC still allows the vehicle to be registered. ICBC can look up which vehicles which only have 1 vin.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:29 PM   #32
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But that is being claimed "Guilty until proven Innocent". who is gonna pay for the tow truck fee when you start towing wrongfully accused cars? You cant just tow every vehicle cause you cant see the VIN. Like someone elses mentioned, BC assigned VINs are in the doorjam. not visible to the outside. and also fully legal. Probably 0.25% of cars on the road or even less are driven in a manner which you are talking about, but yet 100% of cars without VINs will be towed?
Criminal Code of Canada says any vehicle not bearing a VIN or has one that has been removed or defaced is considered stolen. The onus of proving it is not stolen, is on the owner. That means, in short, if the VIN is not present, your car is stolen and you have to prove it is not.

354. (1) Every one commits an offence who has in his possession any property or thing or any proceeds of any property or thing knowing that all or part of the property or thing or of the proceeds was obtained by or derived directly or indirectly from

(a) the commission in Canada of an offence punishable by indictment; or

(b) an act or omission anywhere that, if it had occurred in Canada, would have constituted an offence punishable by indictment.

Obliterated vehicle identification number
(2) In proceedings in respect of an offence under subsection (1), evidence that a person has in his possession a motor vehicle the vehicle identification number of which has been wholly or partially removed or obliterated or a part of a motor vehicle being a part bearing a vehicle identification number that has been wholly or partially removed or obliterated is, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, proof that the motor vehicle or part, as the case may be, was obtained, and that such person had the motor vehicle or part, as the case may be, in his possession knowing that it was obtained,

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Old 08-31-2011, 12:48 AM   #33
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Criminal Code of Canada says any vehicle not bearing a VIN or has one that has been removed or defaced is considered stolen. The onus of proving it is not stolen, is on the owner. That means, in short, if the VIN is not present, your car is stolen and you have to prove it is not.

354. (1) Every one commits an offence who has in his possession any property or thing or any proceeds of any property or thing knowing that all or part of the property or thing or of the proceeds was obtained by or derived directly or indirectly from

(a) the commission in Canada of an offence punishable by indictment; or

(b) an act or omission anywhere that, if it had occurred in Canada, would have constituted an offence punishable by indictment.

Obliterated vehicle identification number
(2) In proceedings in respect of an offence under subsection (1), evidence that a person has in his possession a motor vehicle the vehicle identification number of which has been wholly or partially removed or obliterated or a part of a motor vehicle being a part bearing a vehicle identification number that has been wholly or partially removed or obliterated is, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, proof that the motor vehicle or part, as the case may be, was obtained, and that such person had the motor vehicle or part, as the case may be, in his possession knowing that it was obtained,

The Section of the MVA or CCC you just quoted does not apply here.

The vehicle does bear a VIN, but it is under the hood. It is not damaged, defaced, or removed. Just not visible from the outside.
I doesnt look like there is a law that is being broken by not having a Visible VIN, otherwise, why would ICBC tell all the Designated Inspection facilities to install new VINs to doorjams as opposed to Dashboards. A pop rivet or special screw can be applied to almost any smooth surface on the car, and the dashboard would be a convenient spot if there was a law to demand all vehicles show their VINs.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:09 AM   #34
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I registered a fresh JDM import last week, just helping someone out with it..

From my experience and registering some cars, autoplan just checks the vehicle for 2 seperate vins. This particular car was an R33 which only had 2 VIN's, both were almost side by side on the firewall under the hood.

As long as there's 2 VIN's in place ICBC lets it go through. Autoplan issues an ICBC letter stating that they accept the short VIN on the vehicle yada yada......

Doesn't really seem like they care if its visible or not.
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Old 08-31-2011, 07:28 AM   #35
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[QUOTE=MWR34;7563102]The Section of the MVA or CCC you just quoted does not apply here.



I was replying to MWR34's earlier post, # 30. "But that is being claimed "Guilty until proven Innocent". who is gonna pay for the tow truck fee when you start towing wrongfully accused cars? You cant just tow every vehicle cause you cant see the VIN

The VIN must be visible, wherever regulation requires or permits it to be. For example, Japanese imported Minis have the VIN plate in the trunk (boot). If it is not there to be easily viewed, then the owner must be able to point it out. If the owner can not, the law says that if there is no VIN, the car is considered stolden property and the reverse onus requires the owner to prove otherwise...in other words, point out the VIN. It is beyond reason to expect every Cop to know the various possible locations of the VIN plate on every single different make and model of motor vehicle ever made and on the road and to be able to find them at roadside under every possible condition.

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Old 08-31-2011, 04:39 PM   #36
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Guys, I think we're arguing over semantics here.

In 99% of cases, your VIN should be visible from outside in the corner of your dashboard. Blocking it will only raise suspicion.

If your car is one of those rare cases where the VIN is hidden behind a door, trunk lid, hood, etc. then that is permissible as well. Just make sure you point it out to an officer when asked.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:02 PM   #37
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ya, but that doesn't explain why the cop gave me problem even after i showed him the VIN on my door jam and removed the sticker over my window to expose the dashboard VIN again.
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:12 PM   #38
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The VIN must be visible, wherever regulation requires or permits it to be. For example, Japanese imported Minis have the VIN plate in the trunk (boot). If it is not there to be easily viewed, then the owner must be able to point it out. If the owner can not, the law says that if there is no VIN, the car is considered stolden property and the reverse onus requires the owner to prove otherwise...in other words, point out the VIN. It is beyond reason to expect every Cop to know the various possible locations of the VIN plate on every single different make and model of motor vehicle ever made and on the road and to be able to find them at roadside under every possible condition.
Yes I understand this point, which involves a police man, with or confronting the owner near the vehicle. but your previous comment, made it sound like, A police officer can run my plate in a parking lot, and they proceed further to find the VIN on his own... if cant find it on the outside, he tows it.

meanwhile, im in the mall, and come out to my car missing and find out it was towed and deemed stolen. Thats what I had problems with. While the owner is not present.


I had a neighbor report I had a stolen vehicle or something in my sideyard, cops called me at work, asked to see the white cars VIN (cause it was a soarer, and didnt have the VIN on the outside) when I came home. I agreed, and they came, I popped my hood, and showed it, and i even offered the Customs paperwork ( it wasnt BC legal yet ) but they didnt bother inspecting too much. So my point was, they dont just tow it, cause they cant find the VIN, or atleast till they confront the owner etc..
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Old 09-01-2011, 10:01 AM   #39
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ya, but that doesn't explain why the cop gave me problem even after i showed him the VIN on my door jam and removed the sticker over my window to expose the dashboard VIN again.
By covering the dashboard VIN with a sticker, the cop isn't able to do his job easily - in this case, check to make sure your car isn't stolen. And he doesn't know that the VIN is also printed on the door jam.

If you make his job difficult, he will give you a problem!
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:05 PM   #40
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ya, but that doesn't explain why the cop gave me problem even after i showed him the VIN on my door jam and removed the sticker over my window to expose the dashboard VIN again.
Probably because the fact that you had covered it up lead him to believe that there was a possible "stolen vehicle" and he had to spend time investigating something that could have been avoided by you having your VIN visible. The Brits have a phrase that covers it...."wasting Police time".

MRW34, I can't see any Cop towing an unoccupied vehicle without doing some investigation first. If the plates belong to a green Toyota and the vehicle is a green Toyota then there should be some reasonable efforts made to locate the owner first, if the VIN is not visible. If the Toyota is over 15 years old and has left hand drive, then the expectation is that it is JDM and the VIN may be somewhere else. If it is 3 years old and right hand drive, then I would be seriously suspicious if the VIN was not visible.

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