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Old 11-22-2009, 07:50 PM   #26
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it also comes down to the raw materials. its all international.

anyhow, i met up with BFB today, and as a treat, they gave me the toptul catalog... omg. im in heaven reading this! i have my eye on their work bench now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by godwin View Post
As I have pointed out before.. the way for Toptul to differentiate has to be the customer service and stock. I mean if you look at Craftsman, they are about 15% cheaper than CT on open stock items like non stock sized socket, but they never stock them. So if you rounded say a 36mm on a wheel bearing, it takes them forever to replace.. that's a PITA.

Yes, majority of the tools these days are from Taiwan like Toptul... I am pretty sure they also brand other lower end tools like Titan... which I have to say they style their packaging a lot like Stanley.

Selling tools in North America and Europe is much tougher than say in Asia, because intellectual property rights are more strictly enforced.. that's why Gearwrench corner such a huge market.. and one of the previous poster complains Toptul racheting wrenches are so thick.

I think SnapOn, Gearwrench are only the few places that are made in the USA (and Gearwrench only make the mechanic bits so their catalog is not very complete).

BFB claims they are the "Toptul Distributor in Canada" so do they have exclusive rights to Toptul? So other people are just resellers working under them?

Is BFB = Toptul_Honda?
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG View Post
you do realize, majority of the tools out there are actually made overseas. they may have the final product finished somewhere else, but usually, even the raw materials are worldwide.

i still like snap on, dont doubt that but man, are those tools expensive. sure makes u think though, is it that expensive because of the material costs and costs to develop it, or is it because they feel they CAN charge that price simply because no one has tried to make a hand tool of that caliber?
I did know most tools come out of Taiwan now. And most of those tools do work fine. when i said US made tools, I meant more than just snapon. Other names such as US craftsman, channel lock, Proto. If a particular tool is made in US, it will usually have USA stamped on it somewhere. They like to flaunt the fact of where its made.
raw materials might be world wide, but i'm sure how the materials are processed have a lot to do with it.
As for my opinion on Snap on being worth the coin, some of it. Not all of it.
And congrats on your position at BJ bmw, from what i've seen, most parts guys starting off, do the deliveries then work their way up.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:46 PM   #28
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BTW Proto is part of Stanley.. I use their torque wrenches exclusively.. but they don't have Made in the USA stamped on them.. only on the box.

Again it is buyer beware.. even Stanley varies what they sell between retailers say Walmart and CT. If you are particular where you tools come from.. always read the box.

The other competitor is Lowe's which SnapOn make tools like impact sockets for.. and they do say proudly made by SnapOn on the boxes.

Hand tools are like handbags.. they are commodity items.. it is very tough establishing a new brand right now.

As for steel, the majority is made in China. However for USA tools, it is cheaper to use material from USA.. (save shipping cost and duties).

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Other names such as US craftsman, channel lock, Proto. If a particular tool is made in US, it will usually have USA stamped on it somewhere.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:50 PM   #29
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I checked out the site again and from what I can tell there hasn't been a noticeable change in product availability. ...however, I understand that the business and website is new and will be under construction for some time yet.

Toptul is no slouch in the Taiwanese tool industry; they've put together a pretty healthy lineup of tools with the cooperation of many other OEMs, OBMs and ODMs in Taiwan.
Because of their specialization in vibratory finishing, they've gained contracts from Stanley to supply their affliate brands like Facom and Britool with a number of hand tools.

GearWrench brand is owned by Danaher USA, but the majority of their lineup is manufactured in Danaher's Taiwan and China plants. The majority of ratcheting wrenches are manufactured by several different companies in Taiwan, rebranded, and sold around the world. In the case of Toptul (or Rotar), Ru-shine supplies them with the ratcheting wrenches.
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:39 AM   #30
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I picked up a Toptul toolset today for some basic wrenching on my MR2 and 325i. The tools, so far, seems pretty good for what I paid. I'm no professional mechanic so I can't compare to tools such as MAC, Snap-On, Craftsman etc. But I do know that they feel a lot better than crappy low-end tools. I like the Toptul stuff so far, but even consulting my father, who is an autobody expert with over 20 years experience, will be very unlikely to switch over from his Snap-On tools.
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Old 11-23-2009, 02:28 AM   #31
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no doubt, i wont question snap on. i have some snap on tools myself (the ones i can afford)

if i had the money, id get that huge mother of a tool chest... =/

but toptul looks like a very cost effective alternative. im not saying that to peddle the product, but just the feel of them is pretty good.

thanx, thats why im really humble about getting the brian jessel bmw job. i know how it works in dealerships, but im really happy they realize it be wasted if they put me to washing cars. the only draw back about working at the dealership is they probably wont let me do the odd little tech job here and there. im not licensed, and i dont have anything on paper that i can do some jobs, but i love getting my hands dirty.

for the home mechanic that wants to invest in a set of good tools, the stuff from toptul looks like a pretty good alternative.

i dont want to knock CT, or even princess auto. i have tools from there, but i also know those tools were purchased knowing i will break them, or be considered under the "few time use" drawer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck Luck View Post
I did know most tools come out of Taiwan now. And most of those tools do work fine. when i said US made tools, I meant more than just snapon. Other names such as US craftsman, channel lock, Proto. If a particular tool is made in US, it will usually have USA stamped on it somewhere. They like to flaunt the fact of where its made.
raw materials might be world wide, but i'm sure how the materials are processed have a lot to do with it.
As for my opinion on Snap on being worth the coin, some of it. Not all of it.
And congrats on your position at BJ bmw, from what i've seen, most parts guys starting off, do the deliveries then work their way up.
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:37 PM   #32
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Hi guys my name is Peter and I am the director/sales rep. for BFB Hand Tools. Shoei, I would like to thank you again for giving me the opportunity to become a vendor on Revscene.

Sorry guys for the lack of products on my website. This business just started 3 and a half weeks ago, but i assure you, there will be more products coming very soon. Before I decided to become a distributor/ retailer for Toptul products, I was end user of Toptul tools. Like many of you, i was skeptic about this brand due to the fact that its made in Taiwan. I bought a few Toptul products any ways to try out since it was inexpensive.
I was quite impressed with the quality and the price i paid for them. I am not saying you should replace snap-on with toptul products, everyone know that is impossible, but this is just a affordable alternative. Some of the Toptul products has been bench tested against all the major brands of tools in our local market and Toptul products came out on top on the break test.

I have a lot of different brands of tools such as Mastercraft maximums, craftsman, ultrapro and of course Snap-on. Snap-on stuff is great, but how many people can afford snap-on products. I started this business so I can provide techs that are just starting out in the trade with a high quality product without paying such high prices.
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:24 AM   #33
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... Some of the Toptul products has been bench tested against all the major brands of tools in our local market and Toptul products came out on top on the break test. ....

Hi Peter,

Welcome to Revscene.

I think it'll be beneficial to anyone interested in learning more about Rotar/Toptul tools' strength, to have such information available in reading, with the appropriate documents/photographs of such tests on your website. Otherwise, it's hard to bring forth any credibility to your words.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:29 PM   #34
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Also I think Paypal is a must.

Since you seem to be targeting home / casual users. I think people will be drawn to you if you can tell them which tool set to buy for their marque. You can do is by bundling some open stock sockets and wrenches as packages for different makes.

eg for me which owns BMW
1. 16 Flex wrench for engine block coolant
2. 36mm socket for oil filter.
3. 36mm impact for wheel bearing.
4. 18mm deep for wheel lugs and impact to undo etc etc
5. 32mm wrench for fan etc etc

Since people here are predominately JDM owners, perhaps you can make customized packages of the bits that are not in standard kits. or package them with your torque wrenches.

BTW do you do calibration on the torque wrench? ie service?

Quote:
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Hi Peter,

Welcome to Revscene.

I think it'll be beneficial to anyone interested in learning more about Rotar/Toptul tools' strength, to have such information available in reading, with the appropriate documents/photographs of such tests on your website. Otherwise, it's hard to bring forth any credibility to your words.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:43 PM   #35
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Hi Peter,

Welcome to Revscene.

I think it'll be beneficial to anyone interested in learning more about Rotar/Toptul tools' strength, to have such information available in reading, with the appropriate documents/photographs of such tests on your website. Otherwise, it's hard to bring forth any credibility to your words.
Here you go, here are some of the pictures of the break-test sent to me by Toptul manufacturer. There is reasons why I didnt want to post these on my websites.

Here are few brands that toptul tested against. They didnt test every brand in the local market but you should get the idea.











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Old 11-25-2009, 05:45 PM   #36
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Also I think Paypal is a must.

Since you seem to be targeting home / casual users. I think people will be drawn to you if you can tell them which tool set to buy for their marque. You can do is by bundling some open stock sockets and wrenches as packages for different makes.

eg for me which owns BMW
1. 16 Flex wrench for engine block coolant
2. 36mm socket for oil filter.
3. 36mm impact for wheel bearing.
4. 18mm deep for wheel lugs and impact to undo etc etc
5. 32mm wrench for fan etc etc

Since people here are predominately JDM owners, perhaps you can make customized packages of the bits that are not in standard kits. or package them with your torque wrenches.

BTW do you do calibration on the torque wrench? ie service?
Thank you for your tip. The website does take paypal. I will slowly but surely be putting things into a package. And yes I will be providing the calibration service soon for the torque wrenches.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:43 PM   #37
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Godwin, I like your idea and I think it makes sense to do so.


Quote:
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There is reasons why I didnt want to post these on my websites.
What's the difference between posting these photos on a public forum and having them available for the shoppers browsing your website?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter-BFB View Post
Here are few brands that toptul tested against. They didnt test every brand in the local market but you should get the idea.
I'm curious. Did BFB and/or thetoolchest.ca (any connection?) send out these wrenches to Rotar for testing, or did they already have a database full of every combination wrench available in the market and simply fished out the brands commonly seen in this market--the Lower Mainland?
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Godwin, I like your idea and I think it makes sense to do so.




What's the difference between posting these photos on a public forum and having them available for the shoppers browsing your website?




I'm curious. Did BFB and/or thetoolchest.ca (any connection?) send out these wrenches to Rotar for testing, or did they already have a database full of every combination wrench available in the market and simply fished out the brands commonly seen in this market--the Lower Mainland?
We do not have any connection with thetoolchest. The break-test and pictures were sent to me by my sales rep. I asked them if they could send me specs on some of their products so they send me those to tell me how strong they are.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:31 AM   #39
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Force comparison is nice and all, but I often think if you break a tool, you are probably not using the right tool / correct approach.I didn't know mastercraft stuff is so strong!

I personally think you should put priority on services / products that CT / Sears etc don't offer.. ie calibration/ service of tools and tool packages for specific models/ jobs.

All shops carry starter kits (honestly at prices at are rather insane), but no one services things like torque wrench etc. I know places like KMS sends you to Langley to calibrate which is like $40 bucks.

As for bit packages. It is just from experience when needing certain jobs there are always a bit that is not part of the standard kit... eg in the engine forum someone was looking for 22mm O2 etc. I think that's a market / help you can provide and people should respond positively.

Does Toptul sell accessories like fender covers etc? Maybe I am just being OCD when I am working on my car, but those things are hard to find and useful.

To start you might want to say you can meet up anywhere in Vancouver on your website too.. instead of the generic "we will ship via Canada Post"

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And yes I will be providing the calibration service soon for the torque wrenches.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:48 PM   #40
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Force comparison is nice and all, but I often think if you break a tool, you are probably not using the right tool / correct approach.I didn't know mastercraft stuff is so strong!

I personally think you should put priority on services / products that CT / Sears etc don't offer.. ie calibration/ service of tools and tool packages for specific models/ jobs.

All shops carry starter kits (honestly at prices at are rather insane), but no one services things like torque wrench etc. I know places like KMS sends you to Langley to calibrate which is like $40 bucks.

As for bit packages. It is just from experience when needing certain jobs there are always a bit that is not part of the standard kit... eg in the engine forum someone was looking for 22mm O2 etc. I think that's a market / help you can provide and people should respond positively.

Does Toptul sell accessories like fender covers etc? Maybe I am just being OCD when I am working on my car, but those things are hard to find and useful.

To start you might want to say you can meet up anywhere in Vancouver on your website too.. instead of the generic "we will ship via Canada Post"

I agree with you. I definitely will look into putting packages together. And for calibration on torque wrenches, it doesn't seem like a lot of places offer that service. I bought a ultra-pro torque wrench from napa, i asked them how much to re-calibrate it and his answer was, " I dont know, no one ever ask me that before. I dont think you have to re-calibrate unless you use it alot."
thats the answer I got from the guy, so i will be providing that service soon i hope.

My website actually doesn't say "we will ship via canada post." I think you're looking at thetoolchest.ca.

If any wants a copy of the Toptul catalog, please pm me with your name and address and I will either mail it or drop it off to you.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:00 AM   #41
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Godwin,

Here's their fender cover:



As for Mastercraft wrenches: I've read long-time Mastercraft wrench users comment that they've had no issues with the durability on them.

The break test: I'm in agreement with what you say. Its just that these tests are good for illustrative purposes; its the easiest way to convince the public on the strength of a product. But there are many variables that'll affect a test result such as: ring-end height/diameter; open-end height/diameter; offset angles; broaching depth on the ring-end.

Peter,

Here's a question I've been wanting to ask:
-why should someone purchase tools from BFB Hand Tools, instead of going to the local CT/Sears/KMS/Princess Auto ie. what makes BFB different from the rest?

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Old 11-29-2009, 09:21 PM   #42
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Godwin,

Here's their fender cover:



As for Mastercraft wrenches: I've read long-time Mastercraft wrench users comment that they've had no issues with the durability on them.

The break test: I'm in agreement with what you say. Its just that these tests are good for illustrative purposes; its the easiest way to convince the public on the strength of a product. But there are many variables that'll affect a test result such as: ring-end height/diameter; open-end height/diameter; offset angles; broaching depth on the ring-end.

Peter,

Here's a question I've been wanting to ask:
-why should someone purchase tools from BFB Hand Tools, instead of going to the local CT/Sears/KMS/Princess Auto ie. what makes BFB different from the rest?

The break-test is to ensure you that the quality and strength are there. I agree with you that design of the wrench is very important.

I'm assuming you're asking in terms of advantages, service and product. Well the advantages of CT, Sears, KMS and princess auto is that they have a store front in multiples of locations, but here's my personal experience at CT and Sears; I would ask a employee at CT or sears about where a tool is or what tool should I use to solve my problem, and most of the time the answer i get is " I don't know." I'm not saying I know everything about tools but I can help people with what they need to solve their problem. KMS tools is great, they sell brands like proto and gear wrench but again they are slightly cheaper than snap-on which means they are quite expensive. Princess auto has a lot of tools for a very cheap price, to me they aren't great in quality. You can get by with them, but you would have to expect them to break on you.

I don't know if any of them delivers, but i do offer delivery free of charge to either your work place or your home for your convenience. At BFB, we only sell things we believe in. If i won't use it, I won't sell it. I hope that kinda answers your question.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:30 PM   #43
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Here's is a few pictures of some of the products:








Please pm me your name and address if you would like a catalog
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:29 AM   #44
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When I got my proto torque tools from KMS I was given this to take my tools for calibration if necessary.

I have a craftsman load cell, I use it once a while to verify the correctness of my tools.

7-7533 135 St
Surrey BC, V3W 0N6

Phone #: 604-596-4077

http://torquetools.com/calibration-and-repair.html
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:46 AM   #45
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... I hope that kinda answers your question.

I posed that question mainly to get some discussion going on here, and to get people to understand how your oufit differs from the usual places.

Thanks for the catalogue offer. Although the internet is a good source for Toptul items, it's always nice to have a hard copy to flip through (PM sent )
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:31 PM   #46
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I posed that question mainly to get some discussion going on here, and to get people to understand how your oufit differs from the usual places.

Thanks for the catalogue offer. Although the internet is a good source for Toptul items, it's always nice to have a hard copy to flip through (PM sent )
That was a good question.
All pm replied and catalog is all on their way.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:57 PM   #47
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Here is pics of some of the tools i use at home including a my new tool chest:











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Old 12-05-2009, 04:59 PM   #48
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Awesome collection. I wish the Toptul Open/box end wrenches were shiny. Nothing beats the feeling of clean shiny tools.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:02 PM   #49
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Awesome collection. I wish the Toptul Open/box end wrenches were shiny. Nothing beats the feeling of clean shiny tools.
They do come in mirror finish, but i just prefer the satin chrome finish.
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Old 12-06-2009, 01:55 PM   #50
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damn I am itching to get one of the tool boxes, peter I'll be giving you a call after x-mas to order a box from you!
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