GM Doesn't have enough cash to make it through a few months

[Enraged]

Originally Posted by OffroadZuki

boo fucking hoo about 3 million jobs lost.

wow. .

[ZiG-87]

Chinese government has expressed interest in buying them.

[Fastam]

I think the company should be bailed out, but fire the enitre upper managment. If they didn't drag their feet so much with new products they could have had the volt on sale right now, and the credit crunch wouldn't have effected them.

For the people saying that nobody wants GM products, they still sell more cars then any other company.The last quarter when the lost 2.5 billion they had a revenue of 37 billion. They need to get ahold of there costs, by modrenizeing production methods trimming the white collar staff and fireing big money execs that don't do anything.

[OffroadZuki]

...and cutting the wages of their average worker both because they're simply not worth that much and because the optics are bad when you use the money a hard-working mother of 3 makes at her 2 minimum-wage jobs to bail out mostly uneducated people with basic skills who make crazy good money...but, wait. If GM did that years ago, they wouldn't be in this mess.

Alabama state rep. Spencer Bachus:

"My constituents do not understand why their tax dollars should go to support what they consider less efficient businesses," said Bachus, adding that most of his constituents earn less money than the autoworkers whose jobs would be saved.

As for the "boohoo on the 3 million jobs" thing, yes, that sounds harsh. But, let's be honest, most of those people would find jobs. They might just have to work harder for a few dollars less.

I have a HUGE problem with all these capitalists frothing at the mouth about free markets only to turn around and beg the gov't for that most communist/socialist of ideas: a gov't handout.

Originally Posted by OffroadZuki

I have a HUGE problem with all these capitalists frothing at the mouth about free markets only to turn around and beg the gov't for that most communist/socialist of ideas: a gov't handout.

Totally agree with this. It wasn't too long ago that the USA was pointing the finger at Canada about the softwood lumber dispute, saying we subsidized it etc. Doesn't even come close to the 700 billion.

[aspect]

Originally Posted by JesseVic

If the big 3 are left out of the bailout, it doesnt mean they will dissapear. The factories wont be demolished and not everyone will be thrown out on their asses. The goverment steps in after banckrupcy is filed and helps a company like that restructure. In a failing company the size of these, it seems to be the more productive thing to do.

Kinda like the saying.. "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime."

+1 to this...also, lol@posting on RS from Thailand.

Here's something interesting. Ford is talking about getting rid of their private jet fleet in light of GM, Chrysler, and For being bashed severely about using them to fly to the hearing asking for money. That's not super interesting in itself, but about half way down the story says:

Congress, though, abandoned a vote on the bailout after a disastrous appearance in which the automakers were criticized for lavish corporate travel, as well as for having poor business plans and high labor costs that some members said would keep them from being competitive with Toyota Motor Corp. (TM) andHonda Motor Co. (HMC)

So, I guess that means there's no bailout for GM... Should be interesting come January.

Oh and lol at Aspect posting from Thailand. It's like crack, only with none of the benefits.

[OffroadZuki]

wtf?? Why would you waste your time on RS if you were in Thailand...

Well, there's no bailout for them NOW...

see, here's what I think they should do...cut EVERYONE's wages in half. They'd be making, on average, nearly $40K/yr...that's still very decent. Except the top brass, who should take a 70% paycut, STILL making more than all of RS Island put together. Make the dealers work for $8.50 and NO commission. Most of them can't tell their asses from a supercharger and are worthless. Sounds harsh? Don't like it? Take the alternative of being out of a job and making $0. They should promise to sell cars for 1% above cost for AT LEAST a few years. They still make a profit, the company stays afloat and they would be offering cars for DIRT cheap, enticing people to buy them over a Honda or a Toyota.

If the gave a proposal like that to Congress, I bet you six assorted Tim's donuts they would have the $25B within a week.

As it stands, though Dustin, I don't think Congress has said "no." They just said "not like this." I think the Big Three are getting another chance to come back with a proposal.

Tiger Woods no longer endorses GM vehicles:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/SPORT/go....gm/index.html

[aspect]

Originally Posted by OffroadZuki

wtf?? Why would you waste your time on RS if you were in Thailand

Yeah dude, you should be the one calling people out for wasting time on RS. What do you have, like 40,000 total posts over all your accounts?

[m1ataman]

The whole trouble with the big three is that they don't sell cars, they sell shares which work on a quarterly plan. Toyota, however, sells vehicles and works on something like a 20 year plan. I wonder why that's working better for them? :/

[OffroadZuki]

Originally Posted by aspect

Yeah dude, you should be the one calling people out for wasting time on RS. What do you have, like 40,000 total posts over all your accounts?

Most of my posts were made while bored in class, bored at work, or bored 'cuz I lost my licence. In the last 2 years or so I've RARELY posted from anywhere but work.

You still haven't answered why you'd be on RS while in one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

Back on topic: Finally GM does something that looks good in the public's eye...but are they bailing out a sinking Titanic with thimbles?

[Black SC2]

Originally Posted by dustinb

Totally agree with this. It wasn't too long ago that the USA was pointing the finger at Canada about the softwood lumber dispute, saying we subsidized it etc. Doesn't even come close to the 700 billion.

Never mind the fact that our Forrest industry isn't subsidized.

[jeffh]

Originally Posted by OffroadZuki

see, here's what I think they should do... .

i really really hope you are joking

[OffroadZuki]

Originally Posted by jeffh

i really really hope you are joking

I'm not

[jeffh]

i feel for you man, that sucks...

[OffroadZuki]

Originally Posted by jeffh

i feel for you man, that sucks...

I'm all good thanks, I'm not in the car industry or any related industries, so I'm gonna laugh through this. What do you do again?

[aspect]

Originally Posted by OffroadZuki

In the last 2 years or so I've RARELY posted from anywhere but work.

You still haven't answered why you'd be on RS while in one of the most beautiful places on the planet.

Sounds like your job is pretty important!

I would answer your question but I've never been to Thailand.

[OffroadZuki]

Originally Posted by aspect

Sounds like your job is pretty important!

It is pretty important. The part that sucks is I get done more than anyone else in like 6 hours then have a few hrs left over to check on Facebook, RS and my photo forums. It's torture, but I guess that's the price I pay for being stellar at what I do.

Anyways, I'm sure most people don't check this thread to find out about my amazing job, so if you'd like to know anything further, please PM me. Thanks

[projectcivic]

Gm has no say in what dealerships pay their employees and how would that help the recession? Give people less money? I think many would rather lose their jobs and collect unemployement. Would you take a 50% pay cut at your job? I know I wouldn't.

Anyways a bit off topic but close either way, I was interested to hear Campbell yesterday say if the autosector in canada gets a buy out, he would hope that our forestry sector here in BC gets some help as well. Its a great point in my mind. Where does the bailout stop?

[OffroadZuki]

Well, let's see. If I was making nearly $80K US a year (like an average GM worker does) and I was faced with making 40K US or nothing...yes, I would take the pay cut.

The way it may help the recession is those 3 million ppl they're talking about would not lose their jobs. Making LESS money and still paying taxes has to be better for the economy than making NO money and living off unemployment paid by other tax payers.

As for bailouts, I don't think the auto industry should get a single penny. Nor should any other industry that has been making money hand over fist, frothing at the mouth about free trade and a laissez-faire economy and paying uneducated people who do mindless, simple tasks unreasonably high wages for years or decades. They got themselves into this mess, time to dig themselves out of it or die. Either one is fine by me

[Enraged]

can you provide a reference (not wikipedia) that states the average wage of a GM worker?

[OffroadZuki]

Of course. I think Forbes is a credible enough sorce when it comes to financial matters.

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/...9mcgarvie.html

According to them, "The average wage per hour of the Detroit Three is $73.20, yet Toyota's (nyse: TM - news - people ) average wage is $48. Compare these wages to the national average for management and professional workers at $47.57, manufacturing and goods producers at $31.59 and all workers at $28.48."

Doing the math (73.30 x 40 (hours per week) x 52 (weeks per year) = $152,256)

Now PLEASE someone tell me why my idea to slash that in half and leave them with a pathetically small $76K US/year is such a bad idea?

(That's just the first one I found...I'll keep searching for a GM-specific number)

From Reuters, a very respected news organization.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...32128020071004

"The average UAW-represented GM assembly line worker makes just under $28 per hour now before health-care and other benefits that take total hourly labor costs to $73, the automaker has said.

By contrast, Toyota's average hourly cost for workers at its U.S. plants was under $48 per hour including benefits."

*NB: these are outdated numbers from 2007.

Hmm...looks like my idea to slash wages/benefits to something resembling normal is not that horrible afterall...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/12/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

"The current veteran UAW member at GM today has an average base wage of $28.12 an hour, but the cost of benefits, including pension and future retiree health care costs, nearly triples the cost to GM to $78.21, according to the Center for Automotive Research.

By comparison, new hires will be paid between $14 and $16.23 an hour. And even as they start to accumulate raises tied to seniority, the far less lucrative benefit package will limit GM's cost for those employees to $25.65 an hour."

[OffroadZuki]

Read these if you think suggesting cutting wages is sheer lunacy...

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.h...5-b50831bb56b1

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...014/BUSINESS01

I could keep going, but you get the picture...

[sixthgear]

Keep going, this is interesting stuff.