Interesting stuff on Crime

[iEatClams]

I found this under the top 100 things you didn't know in 2008 thread.

so 1 in 100 adults is behind bars in the US, or 2.3 million people. Almost as much as the total people behind bars in Russia and China combined, despite the huge population difference.

Personally I don't think tougher sentences are the way to go. Tonnes of research by scientists have indicated that tougher laws dont work, or defer peole from commiting crimes.

A lot of research has indicate that Poverty is the main cause of crime. Either we tackle the problem at the root, or just keep trying to bandaid it up by sending people to jail, only for them to come out and be outkasted by society and resort back to crime agian.

A new study of US prisons has found that numbers of people in jail are at an all-time high, with more than 1% of the adult population behind bars.
The Pew Center report calls the US the global leader in the rate at which it imprisons its citizens.

Over 2.3 million people were being held this year, it said - far ahead of other countries with large prison populations like China, Russia and Iran.

The report called for fewer low-risk offenders to be sent to jail.

Soaring costs

It claims that the growing prison population "is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford, and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime".

With 750 inmates per 100,000 people, imprisonment cost the 50 states more than $49bn last year, up from less than $11bn 20 years earlier.

The rate of increase for prison costs was found to be six times greater than for higher education spending.

RATES OF INCARCERATION
USA: 750 prisoners per 100,000 people
South Africa: 341 per 100,000
Iran: 222 per 100,000
China: 119 per 100,000

According to the Pew Center study, the higher rates of incarceration did not reflect a similar increase in crime, or in population, but tougher sentencing measures.

Some states, though, such as Texas and Kansas, have acted to slow their prison population growth, with greater use of community supervision for lower-risk offenders, and sanctions other than prison for minor probation and parole violations.

Disproportionate numbers

The numbers were "especially startling", according to the Pew Center report, for some groups in the population.

"While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine."

The total of 2.3 million adults held in prison - or one in every 99.1 adults - puts the US far head of other countries.

China, with its far greater population, has 1.5 million people behind bars, and Russia has 890,000.

[Wetordry]

you forgot the key point of RUSSIA & CHINA:

EXECUTION

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by Wetordry

you forgot the key point of RUSSIA & CHINA:

EXECUTION

Good point, but those countries only execute for harsh crimes, ie murders etc.

US has a lot of "petty" crimes, especially among the blacks. no racist.

[shiningb3b3]

no matter how poor you are, you should not commit to crime to get through your problems, PERIOD.

[LowTEC]

Execution can solve a lot of problems
Our world doesn't need to have those multi-times murderers alive and living well off

[Anjew]

Originally Posted by LowTEC

Execution can solve a lot of problems
Our world doesn't need to have those multi-times murderers alive and living well off

Until you realize you are now on trial for something you did not do or had little to do with and the sentence is death. then you fucked.

[Chuck Norris]

The key problem is the way the system is put together and the way money is spent.

The irony is that the bulk of the laws and the way they are administered and promoted is purely to satisfy the public's perception rather than fixing the root of the problem.

It is not easy to restructure a system to be more effective and also cost less. While there are ways to make the system function as a business and generate a surplus, the issues that accompany this start to make cause for alarm.

The main issue would then be do we incriminate people to satisfy the notion of slavery vs true justice? Is is a business that needs 'more workers' otherwise it will incur an expense?

The common proposition is that criminals should be made to work in some way shape or form to offset the expense they incur. This can be something as simple as manufacturing, manual labor, etc.

Again, the issue arises are these people taking away from jobs that able bodied people could be doing. Is the quality of work in some cases going to be an issue.

The need for a change is most obvious but the way it must be set up may take a lot of time. The real goal should be to try and create an environment with limited poverty which is the number one reason for crime.

The population is far too large at this point in time so perhaps with reduced birth-rates there may be hope for the future. Imprisonment is the easiest system as it gets rid of the problem at the expense of the common public whom also vastly support the notion of having evil-doers locked away.

[Alatar]

The US still has some states with the death penalty, as well, but there are more delays in getting to that point than Russia and China, for example.

[LowTEC]

Originally Posted by adog

Until you realize you are now on trial for something you did not do or had little to do with and the sentence is death. then you fucked.

True, that's why I mentioned criminals with repeated history should be executed, instead of putting them behind bars for 10 years or less (and expenses) than let them out and have them repeating the history again and again

[k2_alpha]

The problem all Criminal Justice departments in the world face is the lack of knowledge held by the public. The general public assumes the court system is a failure because sentences are not harsh enough or that the guilty is allowed to be set free.

What the public doesn't know is that Conditional Sentences are not sentences that allow the guilty to go free. Conditional Sentences place severe restrictions on the accused. House arrest and Probation are serious sentences. If a single restriction is violated, the accused can be charged with a jail term for the original offense.

The public are also in favor of harsher and longer sentences. The public does and outcry because the accused was sentenced to 4 years in jail and 2 years of probation for theft, and assault 2, and drunk driving. Does the man really deserve a harsher sentence? Keep in mind the average sentence of manslaughter is 10 years.

The criminal justice branch of Canada is estimated to consume $11 Billion. (Statistic Canada 2003) 22% of 11 billion is spent on Corrections alone. It is estimated that an average male in federal custody consumes $43.11 per day. That equal $15735.15 per year per inmate.

Keeping criminal off the street in jail is a good way to keep the streets safe. But is it really going to keep the streets criminal free for long? The mandatory release date 25 years in Canada. (Statutory Release) It is known that the longer a person stays in jail, the worse he becomes. People who have spent a major portion of their life in jail lose their sense of how to live in the public. There have been documented cases where career criminals state to jail staff they are are afraid go get out of jail. The accused clearly states that he will commit a crime just so he can go back to jail; a place where he knows how to operate.

[static]

Originally Posted by shiningb3b3

no matter how poor you are, you should not commit to crime to get through your problems, PERIOD.

i would love to agree with you, but i've never been poor. have you ?

[Nightwalker]

Bogus war on drugs and a profitable private prison system don't hurt things.

[Preemo]

Originally Posted by shiningb3b3

no matter how poor you are, you should not commit to crime to get through your problems, PERIOD.

That's a good idea in a utopia world, but that doesn't really work when poverty exists. It's easier to judge when you are not in a position living on or below the poverty line.

[Chopstick]

pplz think too much



there is one law

I A M T H E L A W

[Chopstick]

lol check this out

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

The key problem is the way the system is put together and the way money is spent.

The irony is that the bulk of the laws and the way they are administered and promoted is purely to satisfy the public's perception rather than fixing the root of the problem.

It is not easy to restructure a system to be more effective and also cost less. While there are ways to make the system function as a business and generate a surplus, the issues that accompany this start to make cause for alarm.

The main issue would then be do we incriminate people to satisfy the notion of slavery vs true justice? Is is a business that needs 'more workers' otherwise it will incur an expense?

The common proposition is that criminals should be made to work in some way shape or form to offset the expense they incur. This can be something as simple as manufacturing, manual labor, etc.

Again, the issue arises are these people taking away from jobs that able bodied people could be doing. Is the quality of work in some cases going to be an issue.

The need for a change is most obvious but the way it must be set up may take a lot of time. The real goal should be to try and create an environment with limited poverty which is the number one reason for crime.

The population is far too large at this point in time so perhaps with reduced birth-rates there may be hope for the future. Imprisonment is the easiest system as it gets rid of the problem at the expense of the common public whom also vastly support the notion of having evil-doers locked away.

*take note. this is what an excellent, informative, thoughtful post looks like.^^^
with respect to the lower birth rates, i'm afraid that the rate of birth will never reach a level lower than the rate of death. that is, without the help of an outside force.
the problem is not the justice system. the problem is crime. crime induced by poverty. in a country where 1% of the population owns 90% of it's wealth (a trend that i'm sure spans the entire globe), i'm afraid the problem will never be corrected unless that 1% wants it to, or they feel it will benefit them.
money corrupts indefinitely. for right now money=power. power>crime, poverty, misery, human life, etc...
it's a completely backwards system that has been spoon fed to us for centuries, and one that our existence has become completely dependent on.
until enough people realize the flaws of that system, and actually want to do something about it, it will remain. along with the BS wars on crime, crime itself, tragedy, etc...
unfortunately, i feel that people are just too comfortable in their own lives to want to change something that will, inevitably, lead to the downfall of society, at the very least.

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

Bogus war on drugs and a profitable private prison system don't hurt things.

[bing]

A lot of people are in US jails for marijuana related offenses just for simple possession.
The US prison system is also very profitable for those in the industry.

What a waste of money.

[PavelGTR]

Originally Posted by LowTEC

Execution can solve a lot of problems
Our world doesn't need to have those multi-times murderers alive and living well off

But then you become the murderer.

[johny]

Originally Posted by azndude69

Personally I don't think tougher sentences are the way to go. Tonnes of research by scientists have indicated that tougher laws dont work, or defer peole from commiting crimes.

the proven fact is that about 80% of the crime in canada is done by repeat offenders. this is people on bail, probation, parole, or people let out after their time served.

so if we permatly jailed or killed every cimrinal caught. crime would drop 80% overnight.

now tell me again stiffer sentances doesn't reduce crime.

it might not reduce the chance of a person doing their first crime. but it'll stop they're 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 150th. (yes there are people waking around vancouver with 100 + crimanal convictions)

put people in jail. and charge them the costs to live there. take it from their bank acounts. take it from their family's acounts. seize and sell houses / property ect. or make them work in jail for min wage to help pay for it. 12 hours a day of work would probbaly pay for their stay.

we should have chain gains shoveling the roads in the city this month. give them a orange jump suite,a pair of boots, and a shovel. they can freeze their asses off for $8 / hr. which they will never see, since it would go straight to rent and food.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by johny

they can freeze their asses off for $8 / hr. which they will never see, since it would go straight to rent and food.

so, pretty much same as outside

[Aetios]

If the number of inmates is a reflection of the level of poverty, then expect to see those numbers climb even more because of our current economy.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by bing

The US prison system is also very profitable for those in the industry.

ding ding ding. many prisons in the US are owned by private companies that utilize cheap prison labour and government subsidies to turn a profit. essentially, they see the average american as a dollar sign and are doing all the lobbying of governments they can so more americans will stay and work in their prisons. all the while americans are paying, through their taxes, for these corporations to find ways to target them with tougher, wider-reaching laws.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by johny

the proven fact is that about 80% of the crime in canada is done by repeat offenders. this is people on bail, probation, parole, or people let out after their time served.

so if we permatly jailed or killed every cimrinal caught. crime would drop 80% overnight.

now tell me again stiffer sentances doesn't reduce crime.

it might not reduce the chance of a person doing their first crime. but it'll stop they're 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 150th. (yes there are people waking around vancouver with 100 + crimanal convictions)

I know you have good intentions, and don't take this personally, but your ideas wont work.

You are ignoring the root of the problem. Theres been numerous research studies done in numerous countries and scientists pretty much agree that longer sentences do not work, and that the main cause is poverty.

This is why we have repeated offenders. Say this is their first time, they go to jail for 8 months-1 year or whatever. They get out. They can't find decent jobs, they are outkasted by society. They still live in poverty, so they resort back to crime.

It's easy for us to say go get a job, don't steal. But when you don't have a computer, car, eating crappy food and while society is living better than you. You feel like shiet, so you resort to crime to get a better life because you're tired of living in a shithole.

A lot of you come from good families, you don't have to worry about school, food, shelter, cell phones etc. Now picture yourself living in a small shietty home, you don't have money for even taking the bus, you eat shietty food. No computer. How are you going to make friends? or even a gf? People think you'r a loser, no one respects you. You join gangs becuase it makes you feel like you fit in, and have respect, earn $$ etc.

I have a few friends that because their parents lost their jobs, they were living near poverty, and you can tell their personalities became a lot different once they were poor.

Anyways. longer sentences won't work for petty crimes because once they are released from prison, they go back to the same shiet, no good job, they have no good friends, no money, the only people they know are other criminals. so they go back to the one thing they do know: crime.
Longer sentences just puts them away for a little longer, and defers the process further. Plus while they're in jail they meet other criminals and learn new tricks.

put people in jail. and charge them the costs to live there. take it from their bank acounts. take it from their family's acounts. seize and sell houses / property ect. or make them work in jail for min wage to help pay for it. 12 hours a day of work would probbaly pay for their stay.

we should have chain gains shoveling the roads in the city this month. give them a orange jump suite,a pair of boots, and a shovel. they can freeze their asses off for $8 / hr. which they will never see, since it would go straight to rent and food.

Are you serious??? You make it seem that every criminal is a millionaire. Just like in a corporation, only the top dogs have tonnes of money, cars, houses. And these guys rarely get caught. The lower end guys are poor. Ever read Freakonomics? How can fine someone that doesn't have any money? It's like giving a bum a fine for evading skytrain fair.

In the western world, you'd be violating peoples human rights. Also, it's damn near impossible to impose with the number of inmates and the current costs to staff the security. Also, they cant go near the public, how easy is it to use thier shovel to hurt someone, theres just too high of a risk for something to happen. Thats why they only let them do certain things in rural areas. I think someone in a previous post already mentioned the quality issues.

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by Chuck Norris

The key problem is the way the system is put together and the way money is spent.

The irony is that the bulk of the laws and the way they are administered and promoted is purely to satisfy the public's perception rather than fixing the root of the problem.

It is not easy to restructure a system to be more effective and also cost less. While there are ways to make the system function as a business and generate a surplus, the issues that accompany this start to make cause for alarm.

The main issue would then be do we incriminate people to satisfy the notion of slavery vs true justice? Is is a business that needs 'more workers' otherwise it will incur an expense?

The common proposition is that criminals should be made to work in some way shape or form to offset the expense they incur. This can be something as simple as manufacturing, manual labor, etc.

Again, the issue arises are these people taking away from jobs that able bodied people could be doing. Is the quality of work in some cases going to be an issue.

The need for a change is most obvious but the way it must be set up may take a lot of time. The real goal should be to try and create an environment with limited poverty which is the number one reason for crime.

The population is far too large at this point in time so perhaps with reduced birth-rates there may be hope for the future. Imprisonment is the easiest system as it gets rid of the problem at the expense of the common public whom also vastly support the notion of having evil-doers locked away.

Wow, awesome post. You sound like some scholar. haha

[johny]

Originally Posted by azndude69

I know you have good intentions, and don't take this personally, but your ideas wont work.

You are ignoring the root of the problem. Theres been numerous research studies done in numerous countries and scientists pretty much agree that longer sentences do not work, and that the main cause is poverty.

This is why we have repeated offenders. Say this is their first time, they go to jail for 8 months-1 year or whatever. They get out. They can't find decent jobs, they are outkasted by society. They still live in poverty, so they resort back to crime.

It's easy for us to say go get a job, don't steal. But when you don't have a computer, car, eating crappy food and while society is living better than you. You feel like shiet, so you resort to crime to get a better life because you're tired of living in a shithole.

A lot of you come from good families, you don't have to worry about school, food, shelter, cell phones etc. Now picture yourself living in a small shietty home, you don't have money for even taking the bus, you eat shietty food. No computer. How are you going to make friends? or even a gf? People think you'r a loser, no one respects you. You join gangs becuase it makes you feel like you fit in, and have respect, earn $$ etc.

I have a few friends that because their parents lost their jobs, they were living near poverty, and you can tell their personalities became a lot different once they were poor.

Anyways. longer sentences won't work for petty crimes because once they are released from prison, they go back to the same shiet, no good job, they have no good friends, no money, the only people they know are other criminals. so they go back to the one thing they do know: crime.
Longer sentences just puts them away for a little longer, and defers the process further. Plus while they're in jail they meet other criminals and learn new tricks.
.

I didn't say longer sentences. I said permanent ones. these "poverty" criminals have no use in this world. they won't be winning Nobel prizes, or curing cancer. the best case is they will get shitty jobs, taking job chances away from people who don't have criminal records who are more deserving of a job.