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02-24-2009, 09:58 PM
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#1 | | The RS Anchorman
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| Officer regrets what happened to Dziekanski, but thinks he acted properly
James Keller, THE CANADIAN PRESS
VANCOUVER, B.C. - One of the Mounties who confronted Robert Dziekanski at Vancouver's airport the night he was stunned by a Taser and died says he regrets the Polish man's death.
But Const. Gerry Rundel told a public inquiry into Dziekanski's death that there was nothing he could have done differently.
Rundel said Tuesday that the death in October 2007 was a "terrible outcome."
Still, he said when he and three officers approached Dziekanski and shocked him with a Taser seconds later, they acted according to their training and did the best they could under the circumstances.
Rundel said he's sure everyone involved has wondered if they could have done something differently.
"But given the fact that we came in without all that prior knowledge and had to deal with the situation with the limited information we had, I can't say I could have done anything differently," he said.
"That's unfortunate, but that is how it is."
By the time police arrived, Dziekanski had been travelling for more than a day and had been at the airport for nearly 10 hours.
When he finally cleared immigration and customs, his mother had already returned home to Kamloops, B.C.
He had a loud confrontation with a limo driver and then started throwing furniture around.
But Rundel said he and his fellow officers didn't know any of that, and had to act quickly because they believed Dziekanski posed a threat as he clenched his fist around a stapler.
The officers' reaction has been a central issue in the inquiry, and Rundel has said he has thought about it, as well.
"You regret what happened, of course," said Ravi Hira, the lawyer for one of the other officers.
"Of course," replied Rundel.
Earlier, the lawyer for Dziekanski's mother, Walter Kosteckyj, questioned whether Rundel and the other officers acted according to their training in how they interacted with Dziekanski.
Rundel testified that they didn't speak a word to each other or ask any witnesses for information before they confronted Dziekansi.
Rundel agreed with Kosteckyj that physical force is supposed to be a last resort, and that RCMP training emphasized the importance of communication and the need to analyze a scene upon arriving.
However, Rundel said there simply wasn't enough time for any of that before the first shock of the Taser.
"Time did not allow that," said Rundel. "Everything was happening very fast."
Rundel said that he, Const. Bill Bentley, Const. Kwesi Millington and Cpl. Benjamin Robinson were on a dinner break at the RCMP's airport detachment when they received a call about a man throwing furniture at the airport.
He said none of the officers said anything to each other as they stood up, went to their police cruisers, drove to the airport and walked toward Dziekanski.
The supervising officer, Robinson, didn't assign tasks to any of his constables or discuss how they might respond, said Rundel.
He said a distressed woman approached and pointed out Dziekanski, and another shouted that the man didn't speak English, but that was the end of the officers' interaction with the public.
Kosteckyj asked why none of the officers spoke to witnesses, tried to find out why Dziekanski was agitated or even looked at the man's luggage tags to find out where he was from.
"I'm just curious as to why one of you didn't gather some information?" said Kosteckyj.
"If the opportunity presented itself, that would have happened," replied Rundel.
Rundel, who had been on the force for two years at the time, repeatedly referred to his training throughout his testimony - training that will be a central issue at the inquiry. Questions abound about the RCMP's use-of-force guidelines and training in the use of shock weapons.
In December, Crown prosecutors announced that the use of force was reasonable in the circumstances and that none of the officers would face criminal charges.
However, the inquiry's final report can still make findings of misconduct against the officers or anyone else involved.
Rundel said at the time, Tasers were considered safe and were on the lower end of the use-of-force guidelines, below pepper spray and batons.
The Canadian Police Association and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police came out in defence of Tasers Tuesday, declaring that every officer in the country should be authorized to carry one.
But they also admitted that officers have used Tasers too often, stunned peaceful suspects, and not been transparent enough in reporting how they've used the weapon.
The RCMP has changed its policies since Dziekanski's death, noting the devices can kill and restricting their use to cases involving threats to officers or public safety.
It's not clear, however, how those changes would have altered what happened to Dziekanski.
Rundel has testified that he feared for his safety and believed Dziekanski posed a threat.
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02-24-2009, 10:46 PM
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#2 | | My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
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they still dont admit that what they did was wrong...unbelievable
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02-24-2009, 10:51 PM
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#3 | | Say! Say! Say!
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Fucking cocksucker, he needs a wok to his head.
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02-25-2009, 12:11 AM
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#4 | | Banned (BBM)
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i wonder which of the officer at the inquiry is the one that killed the Ladner man while driving under the influence...
fucking usless trash cops, they should be protecting, not killing....
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02-25-2009, 12:39 AM
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#5 | | y'all better put some respeck on my name
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Fuck this asshole. I wish karma pays him back.
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02-25-2009, 01:18 AM
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#6 | | NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
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What the fuck, lay off the guy.
The cop REGRETS what happened, he had no intention of killing the guy. In a situation like that, a tazer seems perfectly sensible. It ends a seemingly violent situation without violence. I'd bet if the tazer didn't kill the guy (WHICH, it shouldn't have, but that's not the cop's fault), we would just go on with our lives and just said "Cops did what they're suppose to do"
All this shit happened because the tazer killed the guy. The cops just wanted to calm the situation by knocking the guy unconscious, they had NO INTENTION of killing him. Being regretful is probably the best thing they can feel, the tazer didn't do what it was suppose to.
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02-25-2009, 11:56 AM
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#7 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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^I too agree.
The police officers were indeed following their training, which I'm sure will be scrutinized by the Courts.
Its obvious that none of them would have wanted this outcome to occur. And although everyone is angry with the death, frustration shouldn't be funneled at the officers.
If blame should be squared off at all, it should be at the system.
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02-25-2009, 12:17 PM
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#8 | | RS controls my life!
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When the story first came out, I was sympathetic with the officers, but with more info coming out the last few months my views are totally opposite now. On the news today, they reported a total of 30 seconds of tazering. Tell me how that's not going to kill someone or that's not use of excessive force?
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02-25-2009, 01:05 PM
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#9 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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training is one thing, tazing the guy 5 times is another.
of course they will not admin, better to deny, that way its easy to live with oneself and no civil lawsuites agains RCMP
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02-25-2009, 01:11 PM
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#10 | | My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
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No apology as first Mountie wraps up at Taser inquiry Quote:
The first RCMP officer to testify at the Braidwood inquiry into the death of Robert Dziekanski ended his evidence at noon Wednesday by refusing to apologize, even when offered an opportunity to do so by a lawyer for the Polish government.
The inquiry also heard evidence for the first time this morning that the actual Taser used against Dziekanski cycled for 31 seconds, including at least three jolts directly attached to the man's skin, one of which lasted as long as nine seconds.
"I never heard anything from this officer other than words in defence of what he had done," said Don Rosenbloom, lawyer for the Polish government.
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02-25-2009, 01:15 PM
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#11 | | Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
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I thought their training would have would have taught them to evaluate a situation, maybe develop a plan to handle the situation....
But apparently they didn't even say a word to each other before confronting Dziekanski
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02-25-2009, 01:15 PM
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#12 | | My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
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| Quote: |
"The officer's statement was patently absurd, as it is clear from the video that Mr. Dziekanski never raised the stapler above his head or made any threatening gestures before he was hit the first time by the Taser," said Rosenbloom.
| we all understand no one wanted him to die and the officers did what they were trained to do but NOT admitting that they made a mistake justifies that what they didnt do ne thing wrong...
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02-25-2009, 01:16 PM
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#13 | | My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
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not to mention the officers lied that he was confrontational.
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02-25-2009, 01:17 PM
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#14 | | SFICC-03*
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it was a little excessive... they say tasers are less forceful than pepperspray and batons, but when was the last time a baton or pepperspray (when used correctly) killed someone? a lot of people have died from taser use in the past due to prior health conditions or police misuse.
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02-25-2009, 01:30 PM
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#15 | | I STILL don't get it
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I find two things really ridiculous....
1. Dziekanski raising his arms in the air and backing off(from his suitcase) is considered 'taking a combative stance'.
2. Cop felt his life was in danger seeing a stapler in Dziekanski's hand.
Sigh...you cops....what a way to make a new immigrant feel welcomed in our eh-hem...wonderful country.
Our city has been going to the shits in the past few years and I hope justice will prevail.
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02-25-2009, 01:40 PM
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#16 | | Not a mod
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Ya exactly they weren't trying to kill him. Hitting him 5 times with the taser (even when he was laying on the ground) was just for shits and giggles. [/sarcasm]
Justify that... CopLover Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimist  What the fuck, lay off the guy...they had NO INTENTION of killing him. | | |
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02-25-2009, 01:45 PM
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#17 | | I STILL don't get it
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Originally Posted by PornoMan Ya exactly they weren't trying to kill him. Hitting him 5 times with the taser (even when he was laying on the ground) was just for shits and giggles. [/sarcasm]
Justify that... CopLover | Word.
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02-25-2009, 01:48 PM
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#18 | | I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
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was watching the news and the lawyer asked one of the officers/guards
"don't you take both arms up as a sign of surrender?" and the reply was "no"
also found out officers were taught to use the taser to calm people down -_-
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02-25-2009, 01:51 PM
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#19 | | I am Hook'd on RS
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i think the cop should get tazer five times to see how it feels in return. 2 years in the force, what a newb. His ego is what killed the guy.
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02-25-2009, 02:27 PM
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#20 | | Captain Happy Bubble is my Homeboy
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hearing about this punk*ass b*itch cop making excuses FUCK*ING ENRAGES ME
FUC*K THE POLICE, THEM F@GGOTS
never around when you need them, and when they're around they're killing innocent victims
FUCK THE COP-s PUNK BiTCH3S
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02-25-2009, 04:44 PM
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#21 | | Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimist What the fuck, lay off the guy.
The cop REGRETS what happened, he had no intention of killing the guy. In a situation like that, a tazer seems perfectly sensible. It ends a seemingly violent situation without violence. I'd bet if the tazer didn't kill the guy (WHICH, it shouldn't have, but that's not the cop's fault), we would just go on with our lives and just said "Cops did what they're suppose to do"
All this shit happened because the tazer killed the guy. The cops just wanted to calm the situation by knocking the guy unconscious, they had NO INTENTION of killing him. Being regretful is probably the best thing they can feel, the tazer didn't do what it was suppose to. |
Have you even seeen the video or been following the news about this trail?
Here watch the video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6nx0Cx3uMk
Do you see the lady talking to the guy at 2:22? She's trying to calm him down. He's twice her size but she said in the trial that at no time did she feel like he was going to attack her. Notice how all the airport security is standing around like dumbasses and don't even brother trying to talk to the guy? Turns out there was a person who was working at the airport at the time that did speak Russian and when he asked airport operations if they needed help translating they told him to bugger off. The worker was fired a couple months after the incident by the way. At no time in the video do you even see a stapler used. Also do you notice at 5:00 when the police come in they don't brother talking to anyone they all just walk towards the man all reach for there guns and tazers. NO WARNING NO NOTHING! 4 professionally trained officers couldn't deal with one angry airport traveller!
I travel a lot and know that the airport is the last place you want to fuck around at all but in all reality YVR airport workers are a bunch of morons. More then half of them can't even speak English so I'm not surpised that they couldn't deal with this.
Last edited by Sky_2000; 02-25-2009 at 05:42 PM.
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02-25-2009, 04:57 PM
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#22 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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theres fuckin 4 of them lmao u dont even need anything to take him down, even then
shouldnt that be the last option, couldnt they have just gotten a translator to calm him down, how hard is it to calm someone down
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02-25-2009, 04:59 PM
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#23 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimist What the fuck, lay off the guy.
The cop REGRETS what happened, he had no intention of killing the guy. In a situation like that, a tazer seems perfectly sensible. It ends a seemingly violent situation without violence. I'd bet if the tazer didn't kill the guy (WHICH, it shouldn't have, but that's not the cop's fault), we would just go on with our lives and just said "Cops did what they're suppose to do"
All this shit happened because the tazer killed the guy. The cops just wanted to calm the situation by knocking the guy unconscious, they had NO INTENTION of killing him. Being regretful is probably the best thing they can feel, the tazer didn't do what it was suppose to. | They shouldn't have tasered him to begin with. He was clearly non-threatening and ZFOMG HE WAS HOLDING A STAPLER!!!!
Fuck this cop, he's a fucking prick
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02-25-2009, 06:11 PM
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#24 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
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haven't heard much from the cop-defender/blame Dziekanski crowd lately on here except for one saying he has switched his opinion.
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02-25-2009, 06:59 PM
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#25 | | 【=◈︿◈=】
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaupunkt69 haven't heard much from the cop-defender/blame Dziekanski crowd lately on here except for one saying he has switched his opinion. | Cause there he wasn't really doing anything wrong.
He was mentally unstable, and distressed about something.
Even a guy rushing at the cops with fists clenched only needs to get tazed ONCE. This guy wasnt even posing a threat, and he got tased for 30 seconds total, and once for 9 seconds. It seems like a short amt of time, but watch your clock for 9 seconds and imagine having 50,000 volts going through your body for that entire time.
There's nothing the cops can say to justify this. He regrets it, but from what he was saying, he didn't feel bad that he killed a guy.
And holding 2 arms extended in the air isn't a sign of surrender?
That's just fucking ridiculous.
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