REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

zulutango · 03-27-2009, 10:04 AM

Actually there has never been a "taser death". There have been deaths after people have been Tasered, but the Taser never "caused" the death. The YVR autopsy showed that the Taser did NOT kill him. Anything but the Taser requires pain to get compliance. From hands, pepper spray, batons...etc up, you have to make the hurt so bad they will stop doing things. the Tasrer disrupts the brain signals and, although there is some associated discomfort, it doesn't take pain to make you stop. The longest cycle is 5 seconds.I have been Tasered twice as part of my training, and it more scares you than it hurts. Pepper spray HURTS like &^%&^&^&^* and it lasts for a long time until you are decontaminated. I will take the Taser anytime. The Taser can be activated but due to things like shallow penetration of the electrodes, narrow pattern, loose clothing that swings free of the body ect..it can result in a fairly low power result. I have seen it happen.

The problem with pain compliance is that if the person does not respond to the pain due to alcohol, drugs, mental conditions or extreme rage, you will not be able to control them. You can break bones, even shoot them and they will not stop. Movies are not real life. I have been involved in a shooting and when the guy gets shot twice in centre mass and doesn't even blink at you, you have a major problem. The people that get tasered fall into these catagories. We have been trained that IF you do NOTHING at all, most of these people drop dead because their brain writes a cheque that the body can't cash. The best thing you can do it restrict their movements and get medical attention.

zulutango · 03-27-2009, 10:25 AM

Being on one's knees ( from which you still can rise) is not compliant. Someone that size, who has been reported as out of control, smashing things, who you want to lie down so you can control him, is not compliant. If you also lie down with your hands underneath you body and will not bring them out to be cuffed, is not being compliant. People many times will momentarily do part of what you need, then suddenly revert to violence. Do a little search on his height & weight.

Durrann1984 · 03-27-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

If he didn't help himself, how can he expect other people to help him?
People focus on the 10 hours that he was stuck at the airport, yet no one in the media focuses any of their attention at that fact that he didn't do anything to prepare himself for the trip. No note or message to ask for help in English. After a few hours of being "lost" he didn't go up to anyone to ask for help. I'm sure if he went up to someone and spoke whatever it was that he spoke, that person would have asked for someone else to help translate.

The media DID mention that there were employees at YVR who asked him if he needed help but just walked off. Why didnt they get further help ?
I'm pretty sure if someone stood there for 10 hours, workers would notice it.

okay so he forgot to "prepare himself"... now what ? YVR is an international airport.. wouldnt u expect a translator to be at an "international" airport

Quote:

That's not a police issue. That's a service issue regarding customs. If that's your beef, keep your issues compartmentalized to the appropriate areas. Otherwise, you're just looking for a reason to sling hate.

if it wasnt a police issue.then why were they there
i think all parties are at fault..customs police and robert
i think it could've been handled differently

Noir · 03-27-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durrann1984

if it wasnt a police issue.then why were they there

The police was there to diffuse an escalated incident.

If your still talking about "how does it feel to be stuck at an airport for 10 hrs" that's strictly a customs service complaint. It was of no fault of the RCMP.

If we're arguing about taser usage, then that would be the RCMP's argument which has already been rebutted appropriately. But don't try to tack on faults of others onto the police. That's just reaching to continue hating.

SumAznGuy · 03-27-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durrann1984

okay so he forgot to "prepare himself"... now what ? YVR is an international airport.. wouldnt u expect a translator to be at an "international" airport

There are 24 hours in a day. On average, there must be at least 20 or more common languages that people speak who go through the airport, either entering or leaving the country, and this doesn't include different dialects.

So, at $20/hour for a translator, you want to put someone at the airport for 365 days a year. Let's do the math. $20/hr x 24 hours x 20 languages, x 365 days means you need to budget $3,504,000 a year for translators.

nipples · 03-27-2009, 12:55 PM

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

Jason00S2000 · 03-27-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nipples

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

Perhaps their police force is not full of brutes?

They murdered that guy, and those cops deserve nothing less than a jail cell.

SumAznGuy · 03-27-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nipples

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

BEcause that stuff, like WWE werestling, is fake.

zulutango · 03-27-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nipples

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

Maybe because she wasn't 6 ft 7 and 270 lbs, and smashing stuff? Just a thought?

SumAznGuy · 03-27-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

They murdered that guy, and those cops deserve nothing less than a jail cell.

This is Cananda. At most, they would get house arrest if not conditional discharge.

Jason00S2000 · 03-27-2009, 01:13 PM

4 on 1 and they had to use a taser? pussies.

SumAznGuy · 03-27-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

4 on 1 and they had to use a taser? pussies.

They may be pussies, but they are still alive.

Noir · 03-27-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

4 on 1 and they had to use a taser? pussies.

People always use this argument. This is not a gang fight?

Great68 · 03-27-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nipples

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

She wasn't weilding a stapler.

Jason00S2000 · 03-27-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir

People always use this argument. This is not a gang fight?

If I am getting paid, along with 3 friends, to maintain the peace, I'd have fun beating up some rowdy at the airport with their help.

I would find it less fun to tase him multiple times.

Noir · 03-27-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nipples

why didnt someone taze the lady who missed her fllight in hk who went nuts on camera?

Because she wasn't being volatile to anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

If I am getting paid, along with 3 friends, to maintain the peace, I'd have fun beating up some rowdy at the airport with their help.

You do know why procedures are in place right?
***To minimize the injury sustained by officers on duty.
***Lesser departmental costs for injury treatment, rehab, paid leave-of-abscence due to injury.
to name a few

You do know what necessitated these procedures right?
***Previous incidents causing injury due to concealed weapon upon restraint.
***Highly volatile subjects with unpredictable tendencies.

Ask an officer and I'm sure they can further educate you of the risks the environment of their duties produce.

dna82 · 03-27-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

There are 24 hours in a day. On average, there must be at least 20 or more common languages that people speak who go through the airport, either entering or leaving the country, and this doesn't include different dialects.

So, at $20/hour for a translator, you want to put someone at the airport for 365 days a year. Let's do the math. $20/hr x 24 hours x 20 languages, x 365 days means you need to budget $3,504,000 a year for translators.

or....you could... keep a shelf with like books of other langauges...

four cops taser a guy without warning and without even attempting to diffuse the situation. they tasered first and didn't want to help the guy. then they all grossly exaggerated their accounts in an attempt to cover their asses.
they should all be in jail. if we had no video of the instance, we'd all still be led to believe that they used the taser 3 times because the first 2 shots had no effect, and they had to 'wrestle' dziekanski to the ground because he was resisting. what a joke.

Great68 · 03-27-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dna82

or....you could... keep a shelf with like books of other langauges...

four cops taser a guy without warning and without even attempting to diffuse the situation. they tasered first and didn't want to help the guy. then they all grossly exaggerated their accounts in an attempt to cover their asses.
they should all be in jail. if we had no video of the instance, we'd all still be led to believe that they used the taser 3 times because the first 2 shots had no effect, and they had to 'wrestle' dziekanski to the ground because he was resisting. what a joke.

Word.

If on the other hand the video proved that the officers were not grossly exaggerating the events, there would not have been the huge level of public outcry over this incident. The majority of public thinks the RCMP fucked up big time that night, plain and simple. This will be a bruise on the reputation of the RCMP for a long time.

Noir · 03-27-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

The majority of public thinks the RCMP fucked up big time that night, plain and simple. This will be a bruise on the reputation of the RCMP for a long time.

No. Majority? Definitely not. You can already see there is a substantial divide between the 2 opposing rules of thought. Despite all your contempt for authority, many people still believe the following to be true:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-Oh

From my experience I have seen numerous police officers go way above and beyond the call of duty for somebody they didn't know or risking their lives when they didn't need to. They didn't do this because they were trying to get something in return, just because it was the right thing to do and none of this ever gets into the media.

You can throw a few stories of "bad apples" that have been sensationalized in the media at me as a come back, but I see on a daily basis that we are out there doing WAY more good than bad, unfortunately the majority of the general public only hears about the bad.

You speak on behalf of a group, but kid yourself not, it's not majority. There are many people who do not fear cops or fear that our nation will eventually collapse to an authoritarian state. In fact, I'd say we are majority.

Great68 · 03-27-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir

No. Majority? Definitely not. You can already see there is a substantial divide between the 2 opposing rules of thought. Despite all your contempt for authority, many people still believe the following to be true:

"The Canadian Press Harris-Decima poll found 61 per cent of those surveyed felt the officers used excessive force when they confronted Dziekanski and stunned him several times with a Taser."

I'm bad at math, I always thought that more than 50% was a majority

Noir · 03-27-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

"The Canadian Press Harris-Decima poll found 61 per cent of those surveyed felt the officers used excessive force when they confronted Dziekanski and stunned him several times with a Taser."

I'm bad at math, I always thought that more than 50% was a majority

Semantics. 40% is the minority in technicality but there's nothing technically minor in 40%.

Secondly you have to take into account that its just a survey and the type of people who choose to participate.

Thirdly you have to take into account of when the survey was taken. Numbers should be skewed if the survey is taken with close proximity to the incident and atop media sensationalism. Of course, proximity being subjective.

In the end, are people in general in fear of cops? No. I don't need a survey for that. If people think otherwise, then I have to question the type of environment ones surrounds themselves in or the quality of person themselves to warrant that.

Alphamale · 03-27-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir

In the end, are people in general in fear of cops? No. I don't need a survey for that.

I can back you up on that one. Did some research from Stats Can about crime. I don't recall the specific #'s, but from what I remember a great majority (over 65% for sure) view police as doing a good job. The number drops slightly only when the interviewers have encountered a criminal event and are dissatisfied with the judicial process. This is circa 2006-2008 and is done on the national level.

!LittleDragon · 03-27-2009, 06:15 PM

I use a TENS machine daily for my chronic back pain which works on the same principal as a taser or stun gun. How it compares in voltage, I don't know but I can crank it up to the point where I can barely move. Does it hurt? No, it doesn't but the resulting muscle cramp does. Other than being caught off guard and the initial static shock, I don't imagine being tazed to be much different.

1exotic · 03-27-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

fuck dzisenkenski.

why fuck him?

he didn't do anything wrong

zulutango · 03-27-2009, 08:09 PM

Smashing up an airport was right?

BTW Dragon...you're correct. 50,000 volts sounds bad...but at the milliamp dosage..not fatal. Never has been.