HID/Xenon Lights: Question about high beam/lowbeam

[shenmecar]

wow what an explanation from Soundy.

basically, in 1 sentence, factory HID = good. Plug and play HID from ebay = no good.

[mc25]

Thats easy to say, but I dont think Honda has factory HID headlamps available. And ebay is to general...if there were factory headlamps available for a vehicle, they could be put on ebay, so that makes ebay=good by the standards of your logic (no offence to your logic meant). Im just wondering now, if there are any "Factory" quality headlamps for civics that have HID. And Im also wondering, what makes "factory" headlamps legal, and non oem headlights illegal (besides the height issue).

[zulutango]

A whole list of things....from proper sized wiring and relays, proper reflectors and glass cut for the particular bulb, proper height and direction, proper leveling system, proper headlight washer system...in short, a proper & complete package that focuses and directs the light output so that it is safe and legal for the carrying vehicle and other road users. The car manufacturers do all that, the aftermarket does NOT.

[mc25]

Originally Posted by zulutango

A whole list of things....from proper sized wiring and relays, proper reflectors and glass cut for the particular bulb, proper height and direction, proper leveling system, proper headlight washer system...in short, a proper & complete package that focuses and directs the light output so that it is safe and legal for the carrying vehicle and other road users. The car manufacturers do all that, the aftermarket does NOT.

Im sure you are not 100% correct here. First, Im sure "proper sized wiring" doesnt make it legal. Second, Im sure there are probably some aftermarket (maybe not for honda) that make some sort of legal HID headlight... I cant see you only having to buy from BMW to get a replacement headlight. You may be speaking generally, but it doesnt sound accurate. The rest makes sense though.

[woozzle]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Will you care when you get a ticket and a VI and have to swap your original lights back in before your car will pass inspection? YES.

NO not really actually...my car is never that modded to the point that cops just pull you over, and I have a second set of headlights that I can just replace for the inspection

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by mc25

Im sure you are not 100% correct here. First, Im sure "proper sized wiring" doesnt make it legal. Second, Im sure there are probably some aftermarket (maybe not for honda) that make some sort of legal HID headlight... I cant see you only having to buy from BMW to get a replacement headlight. You may be speaking generally, but it doesnt sound accurate. The rest makes sense though.

Proper sized wiring makes it safe and Federal law requires certain sized wiring setups to meet National standards.....see previous discussions here about melted wiring and fried fixtures. There are NO "aftermarket sort of legal HID headlights". There MAY be individual "legal" parts but the entire system has to be legal. I was speaking specifically, based on Provincial, National and North American standards. Got back and take a look at the Daniel Stern link. He's not the Govt, but he is right and he has compiled a whole lot of correct information. See my previous postings.

I'm sorry you're not getting the absolution you are seeking. The reality is that you cannot "convert" with aftermarket stuff that is "probably" OK.


Oh, BTW woozle...it's called "Fail to maintain to standards". Gets you a fine for that offense, , a new VI and a tow job....and an additional ticket for the unauthorized lights too.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by shenmecar

wow what an explanation from Soundy.

basically, in 1 sentence, factory HID = good. Plug and play HID from ebay = no good.

Like I said, I have nothing against HID lighting; there's nothing wrong with it. It's half-assed installations that spew that incredibly bright light all over the place that are bad.

Originally Posted by mc25

Thats easy to say, but I dont think Honda has factory HID headlamps available.

IF your car is available from the factory with HIDs as an option, THEN you may legally swap in the HIDs from another car of the identical model. Doesn't mean YOU have to get them direct from the factory, just means they have to be the ones the factory has provided for your car. They could come from a wrecker, you could steal them off someone's car on the street...

Originally Posted by mc25

Im sure you are not 100% correct here. First, Im sure "proper sized wiring" doesnt make it legal.

No, but half-assed aftermarket installs with undersized wiring will greatly increase the chance of your car catching on fire.

Second, Im sure there are probably some aftermarket (maybe not for honda) that make some sort of legal HID headlight...

Not in BC. Other jurisdictions may allow them; BC doesn't.

Originally Posted by woozzle

NO not really actually...my car is never that modded to the point that cops just pull you over, and I have a second set of headlights that I can just replace for the inspection

And is it worth it when you add in all the extra expenses? The ticket, the inspection, the tow? As noted:

Originally Posted by zulutango

I'm sorry you're not getting the absolution you are seeking. The reality is that you cannot "convert" with aftermarket stuff that is "probably" OK.

Oh, BTW woozle...it's called "Fail to maintain to standards". Gets you a fine for that offense, , a new VI and a tow job....and an additional ticket for the unauthorized lights too.

Not to mention, if you take your car in for the inspection, and the inspection finds anything else that doesn't pass (whether something faulty or other illegal mods), then you have to fix that AND pay for another inspection... and probably towing charges to and from the inspection center each time... it adds up pretty quick, all so you can see a little better in those short dark areas along Marine Drive.

[jonathan]

Originally Posted by Soundy

No, but half-assed aftermarket installs with undersized wiring will greatly increase the chance of your car catching on fire.

Do you just make shit up to try and persuade others to follow your agenda ? It's one thing to give your opinion on a matter. It is another thing to blatantly give out false information.

The above statement that you're pushing as fact convinces me that you're not very knowledgeable about vehicles, lighting or electrical issues.

HID lights pull 1.6A @ 12 volts, about 35 watts. This means they draw LESS power than a conventional halogen bulb. The factory wiring is actually overkill and more safe with an HID bulb than with a factory bulb. HID lights will put out 3500 lumens all within the safety limits of a 18 or even 20 gauge wire. A halogen will put out a little over 1000 lumens and in most cases will over heat a 18 gauge wire.

With a correct housing, a HID kit can give out a perfectly safe light pattern no different from factory vehicles.

If you take the time to choose the correct components, there is nothing wrong with an HID system, except for a piece of paper in a book somewhere sitting on a dusty shelf that says that this is "illegal". Guess what else is illegal ! Police officers speeding in busy traffic while playing with their in-car computers instead of paying attention to the road. Try and find one that doesn't do this.

Pros: A safer lighting system that uses less draw on your battery, if you set it up correctly

Cons: Some officers may issue you a VI if they notice you (if you have it set up correctly, they shouldn't notice you). This may be a mute point if you're Asian, as racial profiling is rampant in the lower mainland.

and please don't come back accusing me of not taking in all the factors like "headlight wiper systems".

[catalin]

Originally Posted by jonathan

Do you just make shit up to try and persuade others to follow your agenda ? It's one thing to give your opinion on a matter. It is another thing to blatantly give out false information.

The above statement that you're pushing as fact convinces me that you're not very knowledgeable about vehicles, lighting or electrical issues.

HID lights pull 1.6A @ 12 volts, about 35 watts. This means they draw LESS power than a conventional halogen bulb. The factory wiring is actually overkill and more safe with an HID bulb than with a factory bulb. HID lights will put out 3500 lumens all within the safety limits of a 18 or even 20 gauge wire. A halogen will put out a little over 1000 lumens and in most cases will over heat a 18 gauge wire.

With a correct housing, a HID kit can give out a perfectly safe light pattern no different from factory vehicles.

If you take the time to choose the correct components, there is nothing wrong with an HID system, except for a piece of paper in a book somewhere sitting on a dusty shelf that says that this is "illegal". Guess what else is illegal ! Police officers speeding in busy traffic while playing with their in-car computers instead of paying attention to the road. Try and find one that doesn't do this.

Pros: A safer lighting system that uses less draw on your battery, if you set it up correctly

Cons: Some officers may issue you a VI if they notice you (if you have it set up correctly, they shouldn't notice you). This may be a mute point if you're Asian, as racial profiling is rampant in the lower mainland.

and please don't come back accusing me of not taking in all the factors like "headlight wiper systems".

Amen brother!!! I'm just too lazy to type all that out but I agree with you 100% percent, since.... well you are correct.
I like the in-car computer comment, it's nice that they're not trying to ban that yet. I'd have a hard time posting on Revscene during the day.. hehe

[boibuddha]

Originally Posted by zulutango

I've driven in the Australian Outback where there was a stretch of 275 miles without anything taller than a 6 inch shrub or two. There were no streetlights there...and it was flat and straight....I managed to survive. If your eyesight is so bad that you need blinding illegal lights to see, how about considering a glaucoma operation....seriously....or maybe slow down so you don't outdrive your legal lights ?

I would not have expected such an immature response from you, zulu. From others, it is almost a given. I should have stated right from the beginning that I am not a fan of/promote these dollar-store HID plug'n'play kits. In fact, I flip my high beams anytime I see cars using these "Purple Haze" HID kits made by the artist formerly known as Prince, which blind me in my midsized SUV.

If the HIDs were aimed properly, I could care less about them as I can understand the desire for more light output. If I were a cop, I would do a simple light cut-off test to see if the headlights were properly focused.

A pass would be / / or - -

BUT if the were no cutoff lines of any sort, I'd be giving the motorist a VI. This would eliminate the need to know every single make/model/trim that came with HIDs from the factory.

[Soundy]

It's even easier than that: an experienced cop can tell if it's factory wiring or not. Not from the factory = VI.

The alternative would be dragging your ass to somewhere flat and level with an appropriate wall where the height of the beams - not just whether or not there's a cutoff - can be measured to see if it conforms to the regulations.

[shenmecar]

Originally Posted by jonathan

Do you just make shit up to try and persuade others to follow your agenda ? It's one thing to give your opinion on a matter. It is another thing to blatantly give out false information.

The above statement that you're pushing as fact convinces me that you're not very knowledgeable about vehicles, lighting or electrical issues.

HID lights pull 1.6A @ 12 volts, about 35 watts. This means they draw LESS power than a conventional halogen bulb. The factory wiring is actually overkill and more safe with an HID bulb than with a factory bulb. HID lights will put out 3500 lumens all within the safety limits of a 18 or even 20 gauge wire. A halogen will put out a little over 1000 lumens and in most cases will over heat a 18 gauge wire.

With a correct housing, a HID kit can give out a perfectly safe light pattern no different from factory vehicles.

If you take the time to choose the correct components, there is nothing wrong with an HID system, except for a piece of paper in a book somewhere sitting on a dusty shelf that says that this is "illegal". Guess what else is illegal ! Police officers speeding in busy traffic while playing with their in-car computers instead of paying attention to the road. Try and find one that doesn't do this.

Pros: A safer lighting system that uses less draw on your battery, if you set it up correctly

Cons: Some officers may issue you a VI if they notice you (if you have it set up correctly, they shouldn't notice you). This may be a mute point if you're Asian, as racial profiling is rampant in the lower mainland.

and please don't come back accusing me of not taking in all the factors like "headlight wiper systems".

Last time i checked. 1.6A @ 12V does not equal "about" 35W.

instead it equals 19.2W, if u said about 20W, i would let it go.

seems like you are urging people to retrofit HID systems on all their Honda Fits and Toyota Corollas. If you're car does not come with HID, dont put HID on it. Simple as that.

i agree with soundy.

[jonathan]

Originally Posted by shenmecar

Last time i checked. 1.6A @ 12V does not equal "about" 35W.

instead it equals 19.2W, if u said about 20W, i would let it go.

seems like you are urging people to retrofit HID systems on all their Honda Fits and Toyota Corollas. If you're car does not come with HID, dont put HID on it. Simple as that.

i agree with soundy.

I said "about 35" because some charging systems are running less than 12 volts, and many are running 14. Also, during warmup, the kits draw more power, for about the first 30 seconds or so.

I also never urged anyone to get anything, I am simply correcting some blatantly false and poorly researched statements. People should make their decisions based on facts, not what grumpy people with agendas say over the Internet.

P.S. Your "correction" to my post further pushes my argument.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by shenmecar

Last time i checked. 1.6A @ 12V does not equal "about" 35W.

instead it equals 19.2W, if u said about 20W, i would let it go.

seems like you are urging people to retrofit HID systems on all their Honda Fits and Toyota Corollas. If you're car does not come with HID, dont put HID on it. Simple as that.

i agree with soundy.

Well, if you figure a typical xenon HID bulb runs at around 85V operating, at 35W, the bulb itself (not accounting for any losses) will pull about 0.4A. For a 12V supply, however, you'll have to draw just under 3A... again, assuming no losses. If you estimate a standard transformer is 80% efficient, you're pulling about 3.5-4A at normal operation.

It's the 20kV startup spike that's the big draw, and I haven't been able to find any specs on the actual current/power requirements for that...

[jonathan]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Well, if you figure a typical xenon HID bulb runs at around 85V operating, at 35W, the bulb itself (not accounting for any losses) will pull about 0.4A. For a 12V supply, however, you'll have to draw just under 3A... again, assuming no losses. If you estimate a standard transformer is 80% efficient, you're pulling about 3.5-4A at normal operation.

It's the 20kV startup spike that's the big draw, and I haven't been able to find any specs on the actual current/power requirements for that...

You're forgetting the bigger problem here. These housings don't have wiper systems and leveling devices like the factory ones all have.

[mickz]

Originally Posted by boibuddha

There are very few lamps on a couple of roads leading to/from the UBC area. (Marine Drive, 16th) For the short 4-5 minute drive, you can literally count the number of lamps on 1 hand.

I've never had a problem driving to/from UBC when it was pitch black. Stay in the slow lane and use your high beams if needed. Switch back to low beams if there's any cars in oncoming traffic or ahead of you. Seems simple enough?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by boibuddha

There are very few lamps on a couple of roads leading to/from the UBC area. (Marine Drive, 16th) For the short 4-5 minute drive, you can literally count the number of lamps on 1 hand.

Originally Posted by zulutango

"There are very few lamps on a couple of roads leading to/from the UBC area. (Marine Drive, 16th) For the short 4-5 minute drive, you can literally count the number of lamps on 1 hand."

I've driven in the Australian Outback where there was a stretch of 275 miles without anything taller than a 6 inch shrub or two. There were no streetlights there...and it was flat and straight....I managed to survive. If your eyesight is so bad that you need blinding illegal lights to see, how about considering a glaucoma operation....seriously....or maybe slow down so you don't outdrive your legal lights ?

Originally Posted by mickz

I've never had a problem driving to/from UBC when it was pitch black. Stay in the slow lane and use your high beams if needed. Switch back to low beams if there's any cars in oncoming traffic or ahead of you. Seems simple enough?

Y'know, this is the thing... better lighting is a good idea and it's always a good thing to be able to see better... but it's still not an excuse for installing lighting that you know is illegal. I mean heck, put a big-ass light bar loaded up with a half-dozen 65W off-road lights, and fire that up along the drive to UBC too... sure it's illegal, sure it will piss off other drivers, but hey, YOU can see better, right? Add a couple of those train headlamps just for effect, too - you know, the ones that will throw a solid beam of light for about five miles. You'll be able to light up UBC while you're still at Marine and 49th. And if it sets that pedestrian's hair on fire, well... that's his fault, he shouldn't be out at night anyway. It's all good, as long as YOU can see better for that three or four minutes where there's no street lights.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by jonathan

You're forgetting the bigger problem here. These housings don't have wiper systems and leveling devices like the factory ones all have.

My Speed 3, with Stock HID's does not have headlight wipers or an automatic levelling system....

This is my first car with HID's and I love them. They should be stock in all cars. Regardless of what the Daniel Stern Lighting website says about the disadvantages of HID's, they light up the road WAY better for me.

[!Aznboi128]

^ A lot of cars dont have self leveling system
some examples
-tsx
-tl
-rdx
-s2k
-g35
-fx35/45

most of the euro cars have self leveling such as
-gti/gli
-3-5-7 series

but wipers... haven't see much cars with those for a long time (volvo 850)

[mickz]

I'm not interested in installing new headlights on my car but just curious about the legal side of things. So from what I understand it would be legal for me to install the Bi-Xenon headlights from a Jetta 2.0T onto my Jetta 2.5 which comes stock with halogens?

[!Aznboi128]

^ yes

because almost any "modification" to your car is illegal

but a lot of people still do it
but a fyi might want to do a lot of reading on vwvortex for that

the self leveling motors on the 2.0t has to connect to the electronics and yada yada making it real hard to do not a simple plug and play

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by mickz

I'm not interested in installing new headlights on my car but just curious about the legal side of things. So from what I understand it would be legal for me to install the Bi-Xenon headlights from a Jetta 2.0T onto my Jetta 2.5 which comes stock with halogens?

If a particular model comes with a set of bi-/xenon lights in one of the trims, it's legal to install them into the same model that only came with halogens. However, you need to make sure all of it is installed properly. So, self leveller, any extra switches that may be required, etc. will need to be installed.

[!LittleDragon]

I had HID's in my MR2 that were legal. Changed them out because I didn't like the visibility in the rain. They're no longer made but they were the old Sylvania Xenarcs. They were H6054 sealed beams and had every approval stamp on them. They were bloody expensive tho..