And you do realize that the communist party has already openly admited the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a big mistake? And in China almost nobody thinks highly of Mao anymore..

As much as I wish the KMT party of Taiwan would one day go back to China and co-rule with the Communist party, and as much as I hate the many mistakes the communists have done (great leap foward, culture revolution, the many wrongfully jailed) , you have to give them some credits for the goods they have done.

All I am trying to say is, you have to be fair with it, they are not perfect and they are learning, I say give them time..things are changing.

Geebus cripes. See, this is the sort of bullshit they teach you in Socials Studies @ elementary level in Taiwan.


How can someone bring about democracy when their good o' buddie Chiang Kai Shek enforces martial law with familial military dictatorship for over 40 years?

The ruthless level of that gov't puts the Japanese ruthless level to shame.

and please please please, dont even bring ethnicity to the table. That shit is like putting salt to my wounds.

Taiwan and China were not seperated by the Chinese Civil War. It was ROC that gave away Taiwan to Japan. After Japan had lost WW2, they surrendered the sovereignty of Taiwan but Japan didn't say its ganna give it back to China. So, naturally, ROC just claimed it as part of ROC. Taiwan is trying to rejoin UN under the name "TAIWAN" along with other names, but did not succeed because of China and this has been going on for 10+ years.


Yes, there are some people in Taiwan right now that calls themselves Chinese and those are the same people that fled to Taiwan along with KMT when they lost the civil war. Based on the latest poll by TVBS, which tends to favor KMT, there are only 19% calls themselves Chinese in Taiwan.
I agree that not all Quebecois want to leave Canada but at least they had a referendum. Does Taiwan get to vote? No! Why? Because China will increase more missiles thats already aiming at Taiwan ATM.


Communist will never let KMT to co-rule China with them. If KMT do go back to China, it will only be controlled by the Communist. In return, KMT hopes that the Communist will let them rule Taiwan just like HK. I found it ironic that not long ago KMT and the communist were fighting and KMT teaches the people in Taiwan that communist is the enemy but now they are like brothers.

Is China fair with the people that got sick or died from all the contaminated products. Chinese government will continue to allow this as long as theres money to be made. In a way, Chinese government is telling their people that if you want to get rich then you cant have freedom. Even then, not all Chinese will get rich because they need people to make fake LV handbags or NIKE runners so they can make less than $10 a day. Another point that I want to make is 10, 15 years ago, people think China is a shithole but now people are praising China like its heaven because theres more high rises and people are driving Ferrari and lambo. To me, not much has changed. Its still the same type of people running the country except now they allow foreigners to invest into China.

lastly, Jackie Chan is a dumbass for saying that Chinese shouldn't be given too much freedom and should be controlled. I remember reading somewhere about Jackie Chan is an Australian citizen so of course he can say that since that doesn't apply to himself. Why should only himself enjoy the freedom.

Totally agree. When KMT took over Taiwan, they fed all those bullshit to the people. Saying how great China is and one day they will shit kick the communist and take back China. They even have to learn about the history of China but not the history of Taiwan. Not until few years ago, kids started to learn about Taiwan.

The reason why Taiwan is so democratic now is because of all the protests that happened in the 70's and 80's which alot of people died from that.

No they don't. Not the way you are suggesting
Umm, have you ever been to China before?
No I don't. They haven't done any real good. All they have done is fool people like you into thinking they have done anything "good". Unless by "good" you mean "no longer killing millions of people at a time". Yeah, that's great! Congrats to them for that.
No they are not. They are fooling people into thinking they are changing.

Your level of igorance is alarming. ROC never gave away Taiwan to Japan..it was the Qing Dynasty which lost the Sino-Japan war and gave taiwan to japan..

I think I have said already I have personally lived and worked in China before as a Taiwanese expatriate..I also had extensive business trips throughout the entire China..I think I can speak more about the reality than any of you who get your information from CNN or DDP.

this debate is FUCCKKKINGGG INTENSEE!!!!!!!!!!:flamemad::flamemad::flamemad:

yes, my bad. It was Qing Dynasty that GAVE away Taiwan to Japan. Still, that doesn't mean Taiwan and China are separated by civil war.

i lol'd here.
typical response.
i make money in china, therefor everything here is A-OK don't fuck up my vespian extractor.

well, technically they are, if it wasn't for the communist party the entire China now would be under KMT rule..which would've now become the largest democratic country in the world. it's too bad

I don't get it..whats your point?

Did I say everything in China is okay? All I am saying is you gotta give credit for China's government for the goods its done, and everyone knows the culture revolution and the great leap forward are a failure...

wait, do you even know what they are?

this guy is too caught up with starcraft, nevermind him.

the only China-like place hes been to is probably richmond

You forgot to add the majority of the people that call themselves Chinese in Taiwan; those that were originally there but got brainwashed by the KMT gov't/media/school system.

you don't get a standing ovation for being the 2nd worst student in a class. so why should credit be given to China for improving from shit to 'better' shit.

oookay, i thought i was being pretty blunt there but i'll try again.
the only reason why you think China is even a remotely 'decent' country is because you do business with them, it is in your interest to show china in a good light so you can make MONEY or some form of misguided ethnic pride.

it is in your best interest that the people continue to work for very little money so you can make alot of money.

it is in your interest to deny people rights and democracy because the people on top are easier to bribe.

replace the word 'your' with your typical businessman.

Yup, I get all my information from CNN. I have never been to China before in my life, despite living in Hong Kong for the last 3 years, and visiting regularly for the last 5 years. Not as a businessman, just as an observer.

I see China from a very open perspective. I have no prejudices whatsoever. I don't have to like it, I don't have to hate it. I have heard people try to convince me that it's great. I have heard people who are suffering, and wish they could change things. And everything in between. Therefore, I feel that I know what it's all about there. I have been to all different places - not just the typical backpack destinations or the phony cities the expats live in. That gives me the unique perspective of seeing China for what it really is, not what is presented to me in an attempt to convince me of how I am supposed to perceive it.

It's sad that when all these people are presenting you with knowledge and facts, that you just dismiss it and try to change the subject. You have so much to learn about your own family's history, but are choosing to remain ignorant. At first I was sad for you, then mad at you for being an idiot. Now I am just sad again. Tell your mother I am sorry she raised such a stupid son :(

China has gone through both good and bad times. But it's meaningless to compare history back and forth. You can do the same by saying how many people the Qin emperor killed etc...

Back to the topic, think about this. China has 1.3 billion people. Over 50 (forgot the actual number) ethnicity or culture. Over half of the populations are poor rural peasants. IF democracy was allowed, or freedom to protest was allowed, imagine what would happen? What would a poor peasant do if he see himself working his ass off making pennies while this guy in a suit in the cities is driving a car? This would create chaos and people would be fighting for things they were fighting for back in during the cultural revolution or even before that.

I know that as a fact is that China has gone through a lot and changed the past 60 years. It is actually pretty remarkable to see a country who was once called the Sick man of Asia and has gone through a revolution, WWI, WWII, the civil war, cultural revolution to a country today who holds a quarter of US debts. Lets just wait and see how the next 60 years is going to change the lives of the Chinese.

This is exactly the reason why China cannot have democracy just yet.

Well said highfive.

Like I said, by all means China is not there yet, but its rapidly improving.

You are constantly talking about people working in a low standard enviornment, little did you know just 20 years ago most of them didn't even have a place to work other than their farm and producing very little products due to its backward technology.

Things have improved. Although alot still live in a harsh environment, its still better than before. This is also the reason why I say you have to give them credit for it.

With existing literacy level and living standard, democracy means nothing to
majority of chinese people who live in mainland china. They are already living
as free as any people in any Western country. It's not like in the old days,
the government installs speakerphone under your kitchen table or force you to
work at a factory. What Chinese care the most is how to get themselve
out of poverty (for lower class) or how to send their kids to study aboard
(middle class). If you dare to ask a mainlander in China about democracy or
Taiwan independency, he will call you nuts and say "we have more important
things to deal with in our life"

I wouldn't say Jackie Chan's statement is false, in fact, I sort of understand
what he's trying to claim in his view point. He just spoke it to the wrong
audience without refining it.

Holy shit... so much text.

Look at democracy in India for example. Indian democracy is a fucking joke.

China is sure not to make the same mistakes as India!

woah woah woah. just cuz china's government sucks ass dosent mean u gotta bring india into this.

so canadian government is anywhere better?
it's just plain stupid to comment a foreign government sucks ass

I couldn't agree with you more.

the average Chinese people liviing in China is indeed living very freely. things are different.

And like you said most people couldnt careless about western democracy..they worry more about how to make money.

well said here AsianXL

ok. in my opinion china's government sucks ass. better?

The reason why the CCP still rules China to this day is because they have the Mandate of Heaven.

If the Chinese didn't want the CCP, they would have rebelled a long time ago. The Chinese have a long history of revolting against corrupt rulers. We had the Taiping rebellion, the yellow turban rebellion and other rebellions and wars and shit just to overthrow the government we didn't like. So it's nothing to us to start a rebellion if we didn't want the CCP in place.