Lower Mainland parent groups lobbying school boards for Mandarin Immersion courses

[oinkoinkpig]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

being chinese and obviously being able to speak cantonese and mandarin, i fully DO NOT SUPPORT this proposal.

Many immigrants can get around town w/o speaking a word of english. Needs such as cellphones, cable/internet all offer service in Mandarin, walk into most of the main banks in town and you are almost 90% sure be able to reach someone who can speak the above mentioned. Don't speak english and need to cut through customs at YVR? no problem, there are translators. Got sick? Doctors who speak the above are available. Need to get a drivers license but can't read ENGLISH? grab a learners book and take the knowledge exam in chinese.

yea i oppose this. People need to learn English, This isn't Beijing or Hong Kong.

of course, i dont know the what the meat of the proposal is, but if anyone can join the program, than this is a very bad idea.

I agree with you, freaking sounds like we're taking over Canada or something

[rslater]

What a massive ploy to get asian students who speak mandarin an A+ to subsitute their D- in English so they all get still get into University and still never learn a word of English.

[antonito]

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

It doesn't, and that's not what it's intended for.

I could be mistaken, but I think most people are not understanding the purpose of the program. It's not intended to make the lives of Chinese immigrants easier, or for them to bypass learning the English language. The program is intended for those that want to learn Chinese so that it could benefit them in the future.

Actually, there is already one elementary school in Vancouver that offers something like this. Jamieson has a bilingual program where they start teaching Mandarin from grade 4.

http://jamieson.vsb.bc.ca/Mandarin%2...20Program.html

If it's run like this outline says it should be, then this is a great idea.

However, how long until this would go to court and those prerequisites deemed discriminatory?

[4444]

Originally Posted by wouwou

Because English is the language of the US

You know, the country that has the biggest cock on the planet?

the US has no official language, Canada has 2, french and english - mandarin / cantonese have no place other than for multicultural 'fanciness'

as has been said too many people can and do get away without speaking english, this is yet another step towards irradicating the need to speak one of Canada's official languages

i would never consider moving to a country and not being able to communicate to a certain, simple, level, and i have moved around the world, living in 3 different countries before

[ienhz]

^^^ dude, i still have no idea how the hell there are SOOO many fobs/hongers at SFU. i hear more mandarin in the hallways than english for god's sake. there are like 6 chinese clubs at SFU too LOL. even worse was when i got on the 144 bus to get to the other side of campus and the whole bus was filled with fobs yapping loudly in typical chinese fashion.

half the people in my business communications class aren't able to speak english fluently.. gets me worried when getting put into random groups. i'm pretty sure there's no way they're all international students either. they need to make the LPI harder so the rest of us don't get screwed for group projects.

[dhawes]

I went to mandarin immersion starting @ jamieson elementary, it was only the 2nd year that they were running the program (1995-96?), I have to say it was meh at the time, but I bet they have worked out more kinks by now. Seemed more useful than french imo

[PiuYi]

am i drunk or something?? i FULLY SUPPORT THIS

i think most of you are thinking this is school in mandarin FOR CHINESE people
i believe the point of mandarin immersion is to offer NON-CHINESE kids a chance to learn mandarin and another culture. whats wrong with that? if they can filter this for only kids who don't already speak mandarin that'd be great

whats wrong with teaching a younger generation one of the most-spoken/commerically dominated languages in the world?

[slammer111]

As a HK-born, Cantonese + Mandarin speaking guy, I also oppose this.

It's already bad enough when people walk out of here with University degrees and a lack of understanding of basic English. I know several people who are like this. And guess what? They graduate, then leave the country anyways. You know why? They keep choking at job interviews done by white people, and can't land a job anywhere but HSBC (Gilmore office).

Not saying you need to dump your native tongue (which I also disagree with), but once they implement this, the specialist groups (ie Hongers/Fobs) bascally have no incentive to even attempt to assimilate, and places like Richmond are the result. I do my part and routine bring white people to these hangouts.

If they made this available only for whitewashed CBCs and/or non-Chinese, yeah there's a definite benefit, but unfortunately that will never happen because it'll be no time before someone pulls the discrimination card, and those classes will become places to find a spouse with a Canadian Passport.

Having challenged EN11 in the past (and barely scraped by at the time), I distinctly remember I was the ONLY non-FOB in the entire class of 30, and boy did I feel out of place. It's true, everyone in there was just there to avoid taking French as their Language 11 requirement. I'd bet everyone else probably got 95+% on the tests that day and that I was dead last by a long shot.

One interesting but OT observation: anyone else ever meet a European Chinese? (eg FBC, BBC, GBC, IBC) They generally become quite fluent in both the European languages as well as Cantonese/Mandarin, and are culturally aware of both aspects ie the perfect hybrid. To be honest, I'm not sure what we're doing wrong over here, other than perhaps allowing too many Fobs in at a time.

Pandering to a special-interest group is going to get nowhere. Look at French and Quebec. By recognizing them as a "distinct society", we now end up with labels twice the size as they need to be. Oh, and they hate us anyways. You have no idea how many "separatist" people from Quebec I've run into in the past. I'm not sure why they don't just leave if they're really that pissed. Many of us wouldn't miss them.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

am i drunk or something?? i FULLY SUPPORT THIS

i think most of you are thinking this is school in mandarin FOR CHINESE people
i believe the point of mandarin immersion is to offer NON-CHINESE kids a chance to learn mandarin and another culture. whats wrong with that? if they can filter this for only kids who don't already speak mandarin that'd be great

whats wrong with teaching a younger generation one of the most-spoken/commerically dominated languages in the world?

That's what I was thinking. Then again, I'm on the island and I don't think I ran into a single student from my entire time from K-12 that could speak any Mandarin.

[wouwou]

Originally Posted by 4444

the US has no official language, Canada has 2, french and english - mandarin / cantonese have no place other than for multicultural 'fanciness'

as has been said too many people can and do get away without speaking english, this is yet another step towards irradicating the need to speak one of Canada's official languages

i would never consider moving to a country and not being able to communicate to a certain, simple, level, and i have moved around the world, living in 3 different countries before

you really need to read the previous post too

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

am i drunk or something?? i FULLY SUPPORT THIS

i think most of you are thinking this is school in mandarin FOR CHINESE people
i believe the point of mandarin immersion is to offer NON-CHINESE kids a chance to learn mandarin and another culture. whats wrong with that? if they can filter this for only kids who don't already speak mandarin that'd be great

whats wrong with teaching a younger generation one of the most-spoken/commerically dominated languages in the world?

So the English speakers have to learn another language to communicate with immigrants? How about they make the effort to learn one of the official language? I mean, if I moved to France or Italy, I don't expect people there to learn English to communicate with me.

[Drift_Monkey]

Originally Posted by Alphamale

Fuck Chinese people.

dude, you gotta calm down.
not all chinese think the same.
I'm chinese and I didn't vote for it.

you should've said "fuck those who voted for it."

[achiam]

To be honest, to give our kids an edge on the international level, I believe there should be language immersion programs that offer the most "emerging" languages (of which I see as Mandarin, Hindi and Spanish.
Obviously French is a part of Canada because of Quebec. But it is quite obvious on a business level that France is nowhere near to becoming the next world superpower either on a military or economic scale compared to China/India or South America.

[ilvtofu]

^have you read the entire thread?

we've determined that if they provide mandarin immersion, a bunch of fobs will take it just to make school easier for them, instead of assimilating into society like a regular person.

[dhawes]

ive taken the immersion program, you get interviewed, there was not a single "fob" in the class, its not a, "oh I want in, I'm in" thing, they choose who they want in, and they clearly steer away from someone who already speaks the language fluently. I dont see why people oppose this so much, if someone wants to learn mandarin instead of french, why bust their balls? No ones asking you to enroll your kids into mandarin.

[PiuYi]

Originally Posted by !LittleDragon

So the English speakers have to learn another language to communicate with immigrants? How about they make the effort to learn one of the official language? I mean, if I moved to France or Italy, I don't expect people there to learn English to communicate with me.

no... i said make this for NON-CHINESE people, so all the chinese immigrants will still have to take standard english K-12 education, and learn to speak english

this is just an option for native english speakers, who are already strong in english, to learn another language, so they can have more opportunities abroad in the future

[adambomb]

If supporters are convinced that this mandarin immersion programme is for native english speakers who are already strong in their english skills. And are sure that the majority of those who enroll will be non-mandarin speakers...

Then why does the person who is leading the push for the immersion programme, have a cleary asian last name "Pan" and not "Smith"

[The_AK]

Did news 1130 fuck up the title of their story? I think it should be "Mainland Parent Groups Lobbying School Boards for Mandarin Immersion".

Anyways, who has the final say in whether this idea gets passed or not? I think whats funny is that its very possible since they will realize that they can make a lot of money from asian immigrant parents who would put their kids through this.

[NimbeeTT]

I think this is the most stupid and idiotic thing i have ever heard.
Especially in a city like Richmond where chinese immigrants flood here like theres no tomorrow. I mean, think about it, these chinese immigrants come here with limited english already, usually they bring their kids here to get a "better education and life" cause we all know that schooling is hell in mainland china.

In school, they're supposed to pass ESL in order to take actual english courses in high school or else they dont graduate, but by having this new program, what's the point in coming to freaking CANADA when all you're going to do is put your kid in a CHINESE speaking program in a foreign country?

I think that's just so stupid. It just makes me mad because so many chinese immigrants here dont even TRY to learn english and in stores or whatever they expect you to speak their language.

Im chinese, and when i worked in retail, if a person came up to me and spoke chinese directly to me without attempting to ask me in english, i just pretend i dont know the language. It just pisses me off when i see people doing that. But if they try to speak english and is clearly struggling, then i help them out in chinese.

there's already a huge portion of Lower mainland population who cant speak English cause they're fkn lazy and/or they think they're too good for the language and should stick to their own language because it's richmond, everyone speaks chinese right? so why bother learning english? The mandarin elective in high school is enough to help out the population struggling with english and learning another language (such as french). But having an entire program dedicated to the chinese speaking population is just ridiculous.

You came to a english speaking country. Learn to fucking speak it.

/rant

[SiRV]

Originally Posted by achiam

To be honest, to give our kids an edge on the international level, I believe there should be language immersion programs that offer the most "emerging" languages (of which I see as Mandarin, Hindi and Spanish.
Obviously French is a part of Canada because of Quebec. But it is quite obvious on a business level that France is nowhere near to becoming the next world superpower either on a military or economic scale compared to China/India or South America.

Ripped the words right out of my own mouth (even though its been said a few times in this thread already). Seriously once the US of A falls, China will be the next economic super power and people WILL wish they learned mandarin.

But seriously, you guys think that fobs come here NOT wanting to learn english? Maybe some, but I can see the majority of fob parents pushing their kids to learn english if they are already fluent in their native tongue.

[stewie]

fully against it, french or english, people should learn how to speak english/french (at least one of them) before they allow their kids to take a different language.

not directing this at asian people specifically, i know tons of italian, serbian, russian, ukrainian, and greek families whos kids can barely speak english.

[Hehe]

I am 50/50 on this.

If they could limit the course to families with no direct access to mandarin, (like new immigrants from anywhere else than China/TW), then I see this offer as a positive one.

However, if they are going to make it available to everyone, hell no... I immigrate twice (once to Argentina and then to CA), and both of times I studied my ass off to catch onto the language as soon as possible. And really, they are not that hard to begin with. With a full level commitment (you speak, listen, write and even dream in that language), it should take no more than a year to live with it and within 3 to master it at native level.

Something I do find strange is in Argentina, when I hang out with my mandarin speaking friends, we are still used to conduct all conversation in Spanish. Maybe with a word or two in Chinese when we want to express something specific. In CA however, except with some CBC friends, my friends mainly talk in mandarin only.

I guess is because the environment. Here, or at least in Richmond, u can live well enough not knowing English. In Argentina, on the other hand, you couldn't survive if you don't speak Spanish.

[BNR32_Coupe]

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

It doesn't, and that's not what it's intended for.

I could be mistaken, but I think most people are not understanding the purpose of the program. It's not intended to make the lives of Chinese immigrants easier, or for them to bypass learning the English language. The program is intended for those that want to learn Chinese so that it could benefit them in the future.

Actually, there is already one elementary school in Vancouver that offers something like this. Jamieson has a bilingual program where they start teaching Mandarin from grade 4.

http://jamieson.vsb.bc.ca/Mandarin%2...20Program.html

i understand its not to make the immigrants lives easier but i know for a fact that it will be abused by some immigrants wanting to experience a less challenging, more enjoyable time here. i would prefer to go to an english speaking school if i was in a foreign country, and tell myself "ill just learn the language during my time off from school!" but really im just fooling myself

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by PiuYi

no... i said make this for NON-CHINESE people, so all the chinese immigrants will still have to take standard english K-12 education, and learn to speak english

Queue the groups saying that this program is racist and that Canada is taking away their cultural heritage by excluding them from their own language immersion study. Then come the lawsuits against an already beleaguered education system by thousands of Chinese parents for discrimination. After the dust settles no progress will have been made.
The only way that this program will succeed is if its open to everyone. They don't stop our significant South American population (yes, we do have one here in Vancouver) from taking Spanish do they?

Look, the problem is that this special interest group is trying to pump a well thats already too shallow. When I was in Junior High and High School I was using textbooks and materials that were outdated (most of the maps and atlases we had listed 'USSR' and didn't recognize Nunavut)

We need to catch up before we "get progressive". My computer programming class was done in Turbo Pascal (which would be great if I suddenly needed to program a sequel to Zork in 198fucking5) and my journalism class was running Windows 95 on it's computers.


You want to start an immersion class? Fine. Get an accredited private academy founded and send your kids there.


Work on making sure the rest of the province is up to speed so students in non metropolitan and rural areas of the province (ie - Not the GVRD or South Vancouver Island) have a chance of competing against students in better funded districts in the rush to enter our post secondary educational facilities.



Enough pipe dreaming

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by BNR32_Coupe

i understand its not to make the immigrants lives easier but i know for a fact that it will be abused by some immigrants wanting to experience a less challenging, more enjoyable time here. i would prefer to go to an english speaking school if i was in a foreign country, and tell myself "ill just learn the language during my time off from school!" but really im just fooling myself

I think you're misunderstanding the program. English is not completely eliminated as the language of instruction, just like in French immersion English is not completely eliminated. In addition, students don't just get shoved in the program when they're 13. They start at 5. Personally, I don't know many immigrants who came to Canada at age 5 and speak poor English. There native tongue is lacking more than anything.

Do you think French immigrants and those from Quebec are thrown into a french immersion class if they decide to move here? Of course not.