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Old 12-01-2009, 10:40 AM   #1
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what needs to happen to have the gang task force break up a party?

So, I kind of had a birthday party at my friends house on Saturday which turned into an all out rager. It was good... until the RCMP Gang Task Force came and threw everyone out.

What needs to happen to get the Gang Task Force to come? Lots of phone calls complaining? Keep in mind there was no "gang'' activity going on. It was all friends of the birthday guy...

It wasn't that late.. only like 1:30.

What rules do they have to abide by in regards to entry? Everyone was in the house, we weren't loud, not much music playing and all of a sudden there was like 10 cops IN the house grabbing people by the throat and throwing them out. Just walked right in. One brown cop was a total dick trying to pick fights with a bunch of guys. They didn't let any of the girls even get their coats.

This is posted purely to find this stuff out. I don't need to be told "you shouldn't have had a party" etc...
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:45 AM   #2
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Oh, and after they threw everyone out of the house... they were yelling at everyone to leave the area. There were lots of people who had arraigned with us to crash at the house for the night since they were drinking. The cops were like "we don't care, everyone has to go"... so a few people went and got into their cars to sleep (talking back seat here).. didn't drive anywhere and got DUI's since they were in the car intoxicated.

Kinda a dick move, no? You tell people they can't stay, even though they KNOW they shouldn't drive anywhere and don't and still give them a DUI after they were listening to you?

I've been in the process of joining the RCMP for a while and after that night I lost quite a bit of respect for many of the officers.
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Old 12-01-2009, 10:56 AM   #3
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they came into your house and disrespected your family because somebody narc'ed you out
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:14 AM   #4
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So, I kind of had a birthday party at my friends house on Saturday which turned into an all out rager. It was good... until the RCMP Gang Task Force came and threw everyone out.

What needs to happen to get the Gang Task Force to come? Lots of phone calls complaining? Keep in mind there was no "gang'' activity going on. It was all friends of the birthday guy...

It wasn't that late.. only like 1:30.

What rules do they have to abide by in regards to entry? Everyone was in the house, we weren't loud, not much music playing and all of a sudden there was like 10 cops IN the house grabbing people by the throat and throwing them out. Just walked right in. One brown cop was a total dick trying to pick fights with a bunch of guys. They didn't let any of the girls even get their coats.

This is posted purely to find this stuff out. I don't need to be told "you shouldn't have had a party" etc...
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Oh, and after they threw everyone out of the house... they were yelling at everyone to leave the area. There were lots of people who had arraigned with us to crash at the house for the night since they were drinking. The cops were like "we don't care, everyone has to go"... so a few people went and got into their cars to sleep (talking back seat here).. didn't drive anywhere and got DUI's since they were in the car intoxicated.

Kinda a dick move, no? You tell people they can't stay, even though they KNOW they shouldn't drive anywhere and don't and still give them a DUI after they were listening to you?

I've been in the process of joining the RCMP for a while and after that night I lost quite a bit of respect for many of the officers.
How do you "kind of" have a party? This is one of those it is or it isn't kind of deals.

1:30AM in the morning, that isn't late? You need to grow up..

Let me guess, you're still in highschool, right?
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:16 AM   #5
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How do you "kind of" have a party? This is one of those it is or it isn't kind of deals.

1:30AM in the morning, that isn't late? You need to grow up..

Let me guess, you're still in highschool, right?
It was a originally closed guest list. Which turned into people calling people telling them to come, and they called more people etc.. and it got out of hand.

And no, I'm 22.

Like I said, I'm not here for a talking to I want to know what rules the GTF has to follow in regards to entry of a house. 1:30 is not late when no one was being rowdy, everyone was inside the house. There was no drug use going on.

You need to get off your high horse.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:18 AM   #6
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they came into your house and disrespected your family because somebody narc'ed you out
my whole family.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #7
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It was a originally closed guest list. Which turned into people calling people telling them to come, and they called more people etc.. and it got out of hand.

And no, I'm 22.

Like I said, I'm not here for a talking to I want to know what rules the GTF has to follow in regards to entry of a house. 1:30 is not late when no one was being rowdy, everyone was inside the house. There was no drug use going on.

You need to get off your high horse.
Well, the combination of a fair amount of people + alcohol does not translate into a smooth quiet party. Especially when you're 22 and your friends call more friends. I'm sure there is at least a few friends that are rowdy.

I'm not saying what you did is wrong because I'm sure at one point we all did it. But if there is a group of people who are drinking and partying, people are going to complain.

IIRC the police have the right to keep order and at 1:30AM in the morning, they have all the right to stop the party. Noise complaints kick in after 11PM IIRC or even 10PM. Don't need loud music, you only need loud people.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:54 PM   #8
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I just have to say it, sorry, but it's always interesting to see how there isn't a problem with people disrespecting the rights of others but wow, once they think that their rights have been disrespected THEN there's a problem! In this case, I'm speaking about the rights of your neighbours to enjoy peace and quiet and not have party "guests" wandering on and off of their property.

There, now that I have said that, let's examine your case.

The police were no doubt called by your neighbours. Given what has happened to neighbours who show up at the front doors of wild parties to politely ask that it quiet down, I'm not sure that I would do it before I called the police either. That guy in Whistler ended up dead trying this...

So, available manpower shows up to deal with the problem. It doesn't matter if it is traffic, drugs, gang task force, whatever, these are police officers who are there and have the time to deal with it.

They show up at the door and ask for entry. Probably some adult there gave it to them. So, they're in without a warrant and in legally for now. They are likely going to be dealing with a breach of the peace and the VPD have a nice document that explains their policy on this. It is probably not the same as RCMP policy but should be similar.

Police do have the right to use necessary force to carry out their duties, and they are legally liable for any excess.

I know from past experience that in situations like this that they seldom take care of themselves unless you end up shutting it all down and shifting everyone out. Nice that some thought enough ahead to crash rather than drive, but if it turns out that they can't crash there, they do have to have an alternate plan for that which doesn't involve them in the care of a motor vehicle.

Past experience also tells me that intoxicated youth often change their minds about sleeping in the back seat after the police depart the scene. So, the 24 hour prohibition is an attempt to prevent this. You can take it up with the Superintendent of Motor Vehicles or the courts if you feel it has been improperly issued.

So, bottom line is, party, don't disturb the neighbours and don't drive while impaired and you won't have a problem. Fail to maintain control and problems will result. If you think that the police dealt with the situation illegally, you have two options: retain a lawyer and deal with it or go to the Public Complaints Commission or both.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:56 PM   #9
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The only question I have is... IF the party was quiet and not rowdy at all.,...just a peaceful evening...why did one of your neighbours get so upset at the invisible party that they called the Cops? Most municipalities have noise bylaws that require quiet from 11pm till 7am specifically...and prohibit noise that "tends to annoy or disturb" at any time.

The reason that everybody was ordered to leave was that they didn't want to wait a short time till the noise started and they got called back again. This happens at about 99% of the house parties I ever attended because of neighbour complaints. Cops don't drive around at 1 30am on bicycles, listening in the evening quiet for any illegal noises and then respond with 10 Members ( if they were the Gang task force?). The level of the response you tell us does NOT correspond to a quiet no noise party. From a Policing standpoint, it is usually a complete waste of time explaining in detail for the umpteenth time to a drunk/stoner why they must obey the law. There is no ability to comprehend logic and lots of bottled attitude and courage.

Police are not required to tell you more than once what you must do. If their request is legal you must comply at the first order. Trying to get calm and compliance in the middle of an unapreciative pool of party guests is dangerous for officer safety too. I have had cans, bottles and other things thrown at my head from the back and punches absorbed by my SBA. I'm not sure in what sort of shape you found yourself when this happened but sometimes an altered reality can change one's perspective of what really is going on.
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Old 12-01-2009, 02:39 PM   #10
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I'm not sure in what sort of shape you found yourself when this happened but sometimes an altered reality can change one's perspective of what really is going on.

is that the best excuse cops can come up with nowdays? "Oh well everyone at the party must have been so high/drunk that they could not possibly comprehend what was happening around them. Everything we did was perfectly normal."

Ya right. Cops know perfectly well that a 22 yr old person is not going to go out and pay a lawyer to sue the RCMP for breach of protocol. They also know, that the complaints that go to the Public Complaints Commission are investigated by the RCMP themselves, who somehow never find anything wrong with any of their fellow Cop's actions... I wonder why?

Just because there are some parties where high-school kids had a few too many jager bombs and think they are above the law, doesnt mean the cops have the right to enter any house, throw everyone out, and had out DUI for sleeping in their cars. I bet a lot of those people who got the 24hr prohibition will now get their licenses suspended because they were probably still N drivers. Oh but the cops don't care about that. They are serving and protecting the neighbours.

If they come to a house due to a noise complaint, and warn the owner of the house that if the they keep disturbing their neighbours, the owner will get a Noise violation, and everyone will be thrown out, and then more complaints keep coming in, only in that case should the police enter the house, with an adults permission. Just assuming that the party will continue is discrimination...

I have been to a few parties where the door is constantly opening and closing, and the cops show up, and simply walk in. No one ever knows if anyone gave them permission to come in, and the cops dont bother explaining how they got in. They then proceed to telling people to get the fuck out of the house now, otherwise they are all getting arrested and going to the drunk tank. No warrant for being in the house, not explanation why they are there, just rude and threatening directions....

Serve and protect.... good one
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:05 PM   #11
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Well, the combination of a fair amount of people + alcohol does not translate into a smooth quiet party. Especially when you're 22 and your friends call more friends. I'm sure there is at least a few friends that are rowdy.

I'm not saying what you did is wrong because I'm sure at one point we all did it. But if there is a group of people who are drinking and partying, people are going to complain.

IIRC the police have the right to keep order and at 1:30AM in the morning, they have all the right to stop the party. Noise complaints kick in after 11PM IIRC or even 10PM. Don't need loud music, you only need loud people.
Yes, I can understand that. In regards to them being able to just walk in a house?.. is that allowed? If anyone was allowed to let them in it was either me or my friend who owned the house. And he was sober (dosen't drink ever) and said he didn't give anyone permission.

There was no one outside, and unless you came into the house you wouldn't know that there was something going on. It's basically brand new and sound insulated very good.

My bet is from earlier in the eveing when we did have music playing they got some calls (this would have been around 11 -1130 at the latest). We didn't want the party shut down so we turned the music down, turned the subs off.

I was basically on patrol in the house all evening. There were a fair amount of drunk people, but no hooliganism going on. No fights etc.

The music was turned down pretty quiet at around 11-11:30.

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Old 12-01-2009, 03:06 PM   #12
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I just have to say it, sorry, but it's always interesting to see how there isn't a problem with people disrespecting the rights of others but wow, once they think that their rights have been disrespected THEN there's a problem! In this case, I'm speaking about the rights of your neighbours to enjoy peace and quiet and not have party "guests" wandering on and off of their property.
It was pouring rain. There was no one outside...
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:10 PM   #13
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Police are not required to tell you more than once what you must do. If their request is legal you must comply at the first order. Trying to get calm and compliance in the middle of an unapreciative pool of party guests is dangerous for officer safety too. I have had cans, bottles and other things thrown at my head from the back and punches absorbed by my SBA. I'm not sure in what sort of shape you found yourself when this happened but sometimes an altered reality can change one's perspective of what really is going on.
I was sober all evening. Not one drop of alchocol. I was there to make sure things were kept sane, no one broke shit or wore shoes on the hardwood.

I had a pretty good view on how it got shut down. And yes, it was the Gang Task Force, the back of their vests said so. First the door was shut, then before we knew it there were flashlights everywhere, cops coming in from the front door, rear door and basement all at once. You can't tell me they got permission to enter at all the different entryways.
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:29 PM   #14
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They don't need permission to enter via all the different entryways. They only need to obtain permission ONCE from one of the entryways and they can go in via any other.

If what you are saying is what really did happen, it is kind of odd. The thing is, I remember my grad party where people were drunk and all the cops did was tell the drunk kids to leave and left the party alone. Told us to not drink and drive and to settle down. That it was an occasion to remember and it should not result in anyone getting arrested.

After that, they were on their way. I don't know why your party would be handled so differently.
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Old 12-01-2009, 04:34 PM   #15
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"There was no one outside, and unless you came into the house you wouldn't know that there was something going on. It's basically brand new and sound insulated very good.:

If that was the actual situation, how did anyone get so upset that they called the Police ? Cops don't just gather the gang task force and pull a street address out of the air & decide to illegally enter it, with no legal basis at all. It's difficult to justify even with fresh pursuit conditions applying for a severe crime. I'm sorry but what you are telling the Cops here on the board just does not jive with our individual and collective experiences. You even described it as an all night rager and you now tell us of some loud music as well.

You posted out to "find out some stuff" and you have...our experiences with loud parties, drunks (you admit there were drunks there), neighbours who do not want to put up with loud parties next to them, officer safety, the grounds for entry, why the drunks were removed from motorvehicles so they would not drive impaired & options so they had to not place themselves into that situation. You won't get our support for breaking the laws, upsetting the neighbours and condoning illegal actions. Our job description says we are not to do that. I hope it has been a learning experience. It's nothing personal, it's just the way things go.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:02 PM   #16
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"There was no one outside, and unless you came into the house you wouldn't know that there was something going on. It's basically brand new and sound insulated very good.:

If that was the actual situation, how did anyone get so upset that they called the Police ? Cops don't just gather the gang task force and pull a street address out of the air & decide to illegally enter it, with no legal basis at all. It's difficult to justify even with fresh pursuit conditions applying for a severe crime. I'm sorry but what you are telling the Cops here on the board just does not jive with our individual and collective experiences. You even described it as an all night rager and you now tell us of some loud music as well.

You posted out to "find out some stuff" and you have...our experiences with loud parties, drunks (you admit there were drunks there), neighbours who do not want to put up with loud parties next to them, officer safety, the grounds for entry, why the drunks were removed from motorvehicles so they would not drive impaired & options so they had to not place themselves into that situation. You won't get our support for breaking the laws, upsetting the neighbours and condoning illegal actions. Our job description says we are not to do that. I hope it has been a learning experience. It's nothing personal, it's just the way things go.
music was down at 11-1130. I'll admit at that time it was pretty loud. But 11PM is the time you're supposed to quiet down, and we did. they came 2 hours later. like I said, my guess is they got some calls earlier because of the music and got the address at the time. and took 2 hours to get there. when they came, the music super quiet and playing in the basement. Not a chance it could have been heard from outside.

and they came in all 3 entryways at once. not the front door then the rear 1 minute later. so I find it hard to believe that they relayed the information from the front door to the others so fast. Well yes, radios are fast but it was like they stormed the place.

Anyways, I got some decent information out of this thread which is what I wanted.

And we don't plan to have another one. It was purely as a birthday thing and we don't want to risk the house again. It's too nice to have so many people in it at once. Carpet cleaning is not fun.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:13 PM   #17
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well if you were too do it again just plan ahead? letting the neighbors know before hand would be nice. thats what my friend did and there was probably a little over 80 people in the house. and the music was on til around 2am, then we moved it to the basement.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:28 PM   #18
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The DUIs for sleeping in the care are excessive.

Police, ICBC, MADD all say to "Plan ahead, arrange either a safe ride home or to stay at the house" so you don't drink and drive.

The police kicked everyone out who planned to stay safely at the house then proceeded to charge them with DUI for trying to find a safe place to sleep.

Now these kids have a serious infraction on their driving record, and potentially criminal charges for trying to find a safe place to sleep after the police themselves derailed their original plan to sleep at the house.

I'm sure the officers here drink responsibly. A couple beer watching the Sunday game or a glass or two of wine with Thanksgiving dinner. You wouldn't even think to drive for a few hours afterwards. Let's say you are at a friend's house or a relative's place - what do you do with your car keys? Take them from your jacket pocket and stick them in a time-lock safe? If you have access to your keys it could easily be considered in "care and control of a motor vehicle".

At exactly which point does the law determine "care and control"? How many meters and feet have to seperate you and the car key, and how many meters and feet have to seperate your car keys and car while you are intoxicated?

You're worried about kids waking up in their car, thinking that they are sober enough to drive and as such, suspend their licence before they even fall asleep to prevent that.

Why not give them a DUI for sleeping it off on their friend's couch with the car outside? They could wake up early incorrectly thinking they are safe to drive and crash their car. Exactly the same scenario, just a different sleeping location.

So.. what do the officers here do with their car keys when they have had a few drinks? If you have access to your keys and car, you are technically in "care and control of your car".

Makes no sense to me.
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:12 PM   #19
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:15 AM   #20
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There's no "DUI" in BC... our wording uses "care and control" and a 24-hour prohibition.

A lot of the Sec 215 (24 hour's), where the accused isn't physically DRIVING the car, is based on case law. Cases where individuals get handed a 24 for for circumstances such as: a person sitting behind the wheel even without the keys in hand, a person sleeping in the drivers seat and just idling the vehicle to stay warm, etc. Obviously the individual officers have discretion in each circumstance... however usually it's their experience that works against you.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:02 AM   #21
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^^ they got 24hr susp. DUI is just the common phrase I used.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #22
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"Past experience also tells me that intoxicated youth often change their minds about sleeping in the back seat after the police depart the scene. So, the 24 hour prohibition is an attempt to prevent this"

If you are impaired enough to sleep it off, and then decide to drive...how can you tell when you are legally no longer impaired? Do you have an ASD or Datamaster at your disposal? I have charged people for impaired who stopped drinking 12 hours earlier, early in the morning, and were driving in the afternoon...still legally impaired. Just because somebody "thinks" the are sober, doesn't make it so...,that's why they call it "impairment". Stay away from any vehicles except a taxi or one with a truely sober driver. Don't do that, and you could find your choice has given you a lifetime of grief.

Can you really say that every one of your friends who chose to have care and control while impaired would never have tried to drive until they were 100% sober? They didn't know and neither do you.
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:59 PM   #23
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That I can't say and see your point.

The thing that I was just a bit peeved about, was that everyone was kicked out.. told to leave the street (taxi, drive... whatever). And the people who planned to stay didn't really have anything else to do but go in their car. It was raining and cold and a few of my personal friends didn't have any cash on them for a taxi.

It was more the way the whole thing played out that seemed like a trap from the get-go. I know it most likely wasn't but sometime things just don't seem right.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:39 PM   #24
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and they came in all 3 entryways at once.
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Old 12-02-2009, 03:04 PM   #25
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If you're in the car at all, with the keys, that means you have control of the car. If you say get into the backseat and someone else has the keys, you're not likely to get ticketed.

That, and if you were in the house doing crowd control, what was the latest people arrived? If your neighbours are moody people then all it takes is one loud jackass past 11 for them to be calling in all kinds of stuff.
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