REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2010, 07:06 PM   #1
y'all better put some respeck on my name
 
Harvey Specter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,728
Thanked 9,990 Times in 2,608 Posts
Failed 394 Times in 160 Posts
Exclamation Que. government forced woman from classroom for refusing to remove face covering

Imo it was a good move on the part of the province. The province gave her respect, let her cover her face but there's a point where enough is enough.

Quote:
Tue Mar 2, 7:36 PM

By Jonathan Montpetit, The Canadian Press

MONTREAL - After months of balancing a woman's religious beliefs with her desire to learn French, the Quebec government stepped into her classroom to offer an ultimatum: take off the niqab or drop the course.

The woman opted to keep her Islamic face-covering and has filed a human-rights complaint against the government.

In a province where the government frequently faces accusations of doing too much to accommodate minorities, these actions have prompted a fair bit of praise.

The woman began taking a French course designed for immigrants at a Montreal college in February but she refused to remove her niqab while men were present.

The college was initially willing to accommodate her, but eventually balked as her demands escalated.

According to a report in a Montreal newspaper, she was allowed to give an oral with her back to the class and asked men to move so they wouldn't face each other.

The breaking point occurred when the woman again refused to take off the niqab, though teachers had stressed it was essential they see her face to correct her enunciation and facial expressions.

In what appears to be a highly unusual move, provincial Immigration Minister Yolande James intervened. Officials from her department, acting with the minister's knowledge, met with the woman to discuss her options.

"The government has specific pedagogical objectives in its French courses," said James's spokesman, Luc Fortin.

"We couldn't accept that these objectives, or the learning environment in the class, be compromised."

Several groups, including several teachers' unions, applauded the government for drawing a line in the sand. So did moderate Muslim groups.

"When people come to Canada we're not coming to the Islamic Republic of Canada," said Raheel Raza, a Muslim women's-rights activist who has argued for a public ban on religious face coverings.

"We are coming here because we want that freedom, we want the separation of church and state."

But one Muslim group disagreed.

The Canadian Muslim Forum, which claimed the woman was intimidated by other members of her class, said the move amounts to a misreading of the situation.

"In Quebec people have the right to wear what they want," said spokeswoman Kathy Malas.

"It's not a question of reasonable accommodation at all. She was complaining about how she was being treated by other males in the class."

The woman's name is being withheld for privacy reasons.

The question of whether to accommodate religious or ethnic minorities, and if so how much, has simmered beneath the surface of Quebec politics for several years.

When tensions erupted in 2007 over a series of highly publicized controversies, the government commissioned a $5-million study to quell the matter.

But in recent weeks the so-called reasonable-accommodation debate has vaulted back into the headlines, much to the dismay of those who helped prepare the commission's report.

Since its release in 2008, they note, the Liberal government has failed to implement most of its recommendations.

In fact, critics have accused the Charest government of altogether avoiding any discussion of awkward, identity-based issues.

"The government is paying the price for its passivity," said Jocelyn Maclure, a philosophy professor at the Universite de Laval who served as a consultant on the Bouchard-Taylor commission.

The commission's suggestions included creating a public body to provide training on accommodations, and better informing immigrant women about Quebec cultural norms.

But others warned of the danger of reading too much into what is essentially an isolated case.

"It's not like behind this woman there are 2,000 other niqab-wearing women who are about to make similar kinds of demands," said Daniel Weinstock, who, like Maclure, was a consultant to Bouchard-Taylor.

"These cases don't reflect the reality of what's going on out there. For every one case like this, which is problematic, there are a hundred that are dealt with in a very reasonable manner."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/1...e_school_niqab
Advertisement
Harvey Specter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 07:09 PM   #2
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 54,435
Thanked 25,322 Times in 8,860 Posts
Failed 1,559 Times in 707 Posts
"it was essential they see her face to correct her enunciation and facial expressions."

Sounds a bit sketchy to me
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-02-2010, 07:17 PM   #3
.
 
Domani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Richmond
Posts: 8,221
Thanked 83 Times in 59 Posts
Failed 82 Times in 19 Posts
first france, now quebec.
__________________
NeoChaser.com
Domani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 07:19 PM   #4
y'all better put some respeck on my name
 
Harvey Specter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 18,728
Thanked 9,990 Times in 2,608 Posts
Failed 394 Times in 160 Posts
^
Funny you mention that because France went after turbans and so did Quebec. Same issue with the kirpan.

I think in this case the province did accommodate her religious beliefs but there's a limit to how far you can stretch to accommodate one persons beliefs and I think the limit was reached in this case.
Harvey Specter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 07:21 PM   #5
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 39,229
Thanked 15,957 Times in 6,492 Posts
Failed 2,158 Times in 740 Posts
if you want to come to Canada, be Canadian, adopt the culture, and dont bring your BS with you..
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Hondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
This post FAILED by:
Old 03-02-2010, 07:29 PM   #6
Ubereem Mod
 
Gt-R R34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond
Posts: 3,070
Thanked 120 Times in 63 Posts
Failed 24 Times in 10 Posts
i hate stories like this.

We did our BEST to NOT DISRESPECT her beliefs but when you ask your men classmate to turn around and shit. Go to hell! Canada is multicultural, not bend backwards and take it up the ass.

For once, GOOD JOB QUEBEC!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture_Vulture View Post
sometimes I like to use kindergarten art class scissors to cut my pubes
Gt-R R34 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-02-2010, 08:04 PM   #7
My homepage has been set to RS
 
flawless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: vancouver
Posts: 2,094
Thanked 116 Times in 34 Posts
Failed 5 Times in 3 Posts
"When people come to Canada we're not coming to the Islamic Republic of Canada," said Raheel Raza, a Muslim women's-rights activist who has argued for a public ban on religious face coverings.

They've got it right.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Red_One
Selling two tickets. Section 102 Row 13. Behind the Canucks net for 1st and 3rd periods. $210 for the pair.
Quote:
Originally posted by phatboyWhat about the 2nd period?
flawless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 08:23 PM   #8
Banned (ABWS)
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: BC
Posts: 741
Thanked 54 Times in 41 Posts
Failed 1,005 Times in 138 Posts
agreed. i love this feel good story
fishing666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 09:53 PM   #9
Rs has made me the man i am today!
 
91LS-VTak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: richmond
Posts: 3,009
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Failed 118 Times in 11 Posts
haha, but knowing stupid Canadian courts, she is going to win her human-rights case and receive a boatload of money for her "suffering" and "discrimination".

About time someone put their foot down on this issue, though!
__________________
Brickyard '03 350z

Roll That Shit, Light That Shit, Smoke That Shit!

Quote:
(told to me by the stupidest person in the world)...
'Yeah, i've been to taco time before, but i got in trouble...I had a Mexican girlfriend who wanted to go to a mexican restaurant for our anniversery, so i took her to Taco Time"
91LS-VTak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 10:01 PM   #10
I *Fwap* *Fwap* *Fwap* to RS
 
3seriesBeeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,556
Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts
Failed 6 Times in 4 Posts
Good job Quebec. When you come to Canada we do respect your religion and culture and what not but we shouldnt have to bow down to your every demand there has to be a line drawn and I hope the Human Rights Tribunal lets her know that.
__________________
"Make love not war, condoms are cheaper than guns"
3seriesBeeM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 10:25 PM   #11
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,679
Thanked 10,395 Times in 3,918 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
The school was great in understanding and complying with her needs it seems.. it was odd that they drew the line over a enunciation issue?? i dont see why they would need to see her face.. she just needs to see theirs...

there's obviously more to this... i think she may just have gotten on their nerves too much

I can't however understand why the government stepped into this?? that seems rather odd and out of place...


This story is rather odd indeed. I don't think this is so much a religious issue (its not a rule...) than a lady being a bitch and getting on the nerves of a bitchy teacher which = a mess

the govt. probably stepped in because of the potential touchy subject... and decided to make a point where they really should have just left for the school administration/school board to deal with

Last edited by StylinRed; 03-02-2010 at 10:34 PM.
StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 10:31 PM   #12
Captain Happy Bubble is my Homeboy
 
classified's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 321
Thanked 158 Times in 33 Posts
Failed 53 Times in 19 Posts
i should pretend to be a muslim girl, and when i go into write a test have someone who knows the course take it for me, theres no way they can prove it was someone else under the robe
classified is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2010, 10:35 PM   #13
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,679
Thanked 10,395 Times in 3,918 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
^^^ you can do that with any university course... you think your prof knows who you are?

maybe if you went to a tiny college where classes are smaller than in highschool
StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 10:59 AM   #14
RS controls my life!
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 731
Thanked 82 Times in 30 Posts
Failed 45 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaracer View Post
if you want to come to Canada, be Canadian, adopt the culture, and dont bring your BS with you..
you're thinking of america
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion
I know it doesn't make my car faster... its aesthetics
I mean those LV and Gucci also doesn't make you any smarter
Shirlz - Things to do in Vancouver | Web Developer Resource
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 03-03-2010, 11:15 AM   #15
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
Gumby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,522
Thanked 3,626 Times in 1,412 Posts
Failed 142 Times in 70 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
^^^ you can do that with any university course... you think your prof knows who you are?

maybe if you went to a tiny college where classes are smaller than in highschool
Back in my university days, we had to show picture ID...

Btw how would picture ID work for a woman who wore a face covering, such as a driver's license?
__________________
Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO
Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E
kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon
Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:33 AM   #16
The Lone Wanderator
 
Graeme S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 12,091
Thanked 4,385 Times in 1,138 Posts
Failed 192 Times in 75 Posts
Honestly, seeing one's face in order to correct enunciation is totaly necessary. You have no idea how much it helps for me to see the shape my students are making with their mouths in order to help them in correcting pronunciation.

You may think it's no big deal, but it's kind of a shocker when my student say that they really hate hockey because they can't see the fuck (puck; koreans have problems with p/f) or that they couldn't stay at the bitch because they forgot the shit of paper they were going to sketch on.


Personally, I really like the opinion of the moderate muslim group. However, since I am a white male between the ages of 18 and 39 (nuts and gum, your favourites together at last!) if I said that in a public setting I would most likely be labelled as a racist and my opinion would be marginalized. So thanks to the moderates on this one!
Graeme S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:40 AM   #17
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
maxxxboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: vancouver
Posts: 10,849
Thanked 291 Times in 122 Posts
Failed 20 Times in 8 Posts
So subjective, telling the males to not face her and stuff. What? does the males not have their own rights?
I agree with compromising and stuff, but there has to be a line. She is there to learn, i am sure there are other ways to help her enunciate but maybe the teacher felt that was the best way to do so. But at the same time, it could be easy for the teacher not to give a shit and let her fail in learning french. I guess the teacher somewhat cares or just tired of compromising with so many demands.

In the end, you enter into a court room and the judge asks you to take off your hat, if you don't then GTFO.
maxxxboost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:52 AM   #18
Da Vinci's real masterpiece: The Mona Diesel
 
Jsunu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,797
Thanked 563 Times in 247 Posts
Failed 15 Times in 15 Posts
The issue is that often people see this as examples of latent racism or culturalism, where it simply is not the case. People are not deliberately preventing her from wearing her attire nor are they trying to change her views on male/female interpersonal relationships. Instead, there is a code of conduct when in certain social settings, such as a classroom, where you are expected to act and dress in a certain manner.

Like what maxxxboost mentioned, when in a social setting, like say a fancy dinner, it is expected to dress appropriately. You cannot simply go in with flip flops and a shirt and expect latency because it is part of your religion or culture.

In this case, the school had already made concessions for this individual and she is asking for them to go above and beyond, which even improach other people's rights in the process.
Jsunu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 12:04 PM   #19
I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
 
q0192837465's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,760
Thanked 375 Times in 181 Posts
Failed 159 Times in 63 Posts
Lol, i love how muslim men can completely brainwash their women into believing that no can see their faces except their father & husband. I wish I have that kind of power.
__________________
Ignorance is bliss

How I wish I can remain ignorant, why do I know so much?
q0192837465 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 12:44 PM   #20
Banned (ABWS)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The No-Fun-Zone
Posts: 112
Thanked 51 Times in 12 Posts
Failed 22 Times in 13 Posts
Why she's hiding away like that? Was she too fugly or something........... LOL jking

But good for Quebec; if she wants her religious practices to be detrimental to her, then so be it.
The Situation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 01:17 PM   #21
I bringith the lowerballerith
 
SlySi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Yaletown Snob
Posts: 1,119
Thanked 53 Times in 27 Posts
Failed 22 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
The school was great in understanding and complying with her needs it seems.. it was odd that they drew the line over a enunciation issue?? i dont see why they would need to see her face.. she just needs to see theirs...

there's obviously more to this... i think she may just have gotten on their nerves too much

I can't however understand why the government stepped into this?? that seems rather odd and out of place...


This story is rather odd indeed. I don't think this is so much a religious issue (its not a rule...) than a lady being a bitch and getting on the nerves of a bitchy teacher which = a mess

the govt. probably stepped in because of the potential touchy subject... and decided to make a point where they really should have just left for the school administration/school board to deal with
I agree.
This story is not clear enough.
I cant pass judgement on this yet.

Theres allot more going on than wearing or not wearing a niqab.
SlySi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 01:31 PM   #22
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
Kamui712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,810
Thanked 736 Times in 167 Posts
Failed 175 Times in 39 Posts
liam neeson is offended by arrogance... he might go after that lady...


not really related but oh well haha
Kamui712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 02:40 AM   #23
My homepage has been set to RS
 
goo3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Van
Posts: 2,050
Thanked 192 Times in 118 Posts
Failed 49 Times in 32 Posts
Quote:
"It's not a question of reasonable accommodation at all. She was complaining about how she was being treated by other males in the class."
I think by law they're obligated to accommodate her up to a point, wherever that point is.
goo3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net