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hey guys im the op, i got my acc banned for a week cuz of posting in buy/sell and not using PM. anyways,
The inconsistency is what pisses me up the most.
They didnt charge me for diagnostics fee. even though its a good thing, why would the SA bring it up in the first place then? is that a scare tactic so the mechanic doesnt have to do work? (btw, me nor bmw could replicate the problem so nothing was done)
About the squeling problem.
when they checked for squealing that determined it was wear and tear (brake dust buildup on rotors) and they didnt charge me diagnostic fees either. I believed it.
But reading more on the problem, i learned, and how can i be sure that brakedust is the problem. I mean come-on the brake squealing problem is a well known problem in the e90 community. theres even a TSB at http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B340808g.htm im guessing it is an official bmw site.
Anyways was my car really a case of brake dust buildup that nothing can be done about. Or is it the the problem in the TSB.
BJ dealer said its buildup but i think otherwise. how can i make them fix it.
On the drive with forman trying to replicate the grinding noise, i mentioned about this squealing, and how i did some reading online. and how i found a TSB.
he said well i have to becareful with online blah
so i said well its from the offical bmw site.
he said oh, well you also have to see whether its from the US or canada and such.
so i said ok, i havent been reading that far into it so ill research some more and come back.
Is there any reason why mechanics try to avoid fixing a TSB and lieing about it?
Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.
When I changed my wheels, I had the deflated tire warning come up.
I took it into the dealer and the SA called me a couple hours earlier asking if my new wheels had TPMS in it. I told him no and he told me that I would have to pay $300 if I wanted to get the signal removed. I kid you not, that is exactly what he told me.
I then did some research and found out that Canadian vehicles don't have TPMS system in the wheels. I called my SA back and told him this. He denied it at first. I read out exactly what I read on the computer screen in front of me and even then he was like "Okay, I will mention it to the technician that is working with your car."
Right...cause the technician doesn't already know that, right? So had I not known anything or even bothered to do research, they would've charged me $300 to simply turn a "deflated tire" warning off.
When I changed my wheels, I had the deflated tire warning come up.
I took it into the dealer and the SA called me a couple hours earlier asking if my new wheels had TPMS in it. I told him no and he told me that I would have to pay $300 if I wanted to get the signal removed. I kid you not, that is exactly what he told me.
I then did some research and found out that Canadian vehicles don't have TPMS system in the wheels. I called my SA back and told him this. He denied it at first. I read out exactly what I read on the computer screen in front of me and even then he was like "Okay, I will mention it to the technician that is working with your car."
Right...cause the technician doesn't already know that, right? So had I not known anything or even bothered to do research, they would've charged me $300 to simply turn a "deflated tire" warning off.
That's pretty cool.
Which dealership did you go to? You could have reset the TPM yourself.
This squealing issue is a common problem in almost all BMW's. Why is it that when I have driven to about 20,000 ticks that most BMW's start making this squealing noise. Is BMW telling me that this is normal in cars? I've had 2 Hondas and an Audi. My Honda started squealing when the brakes need to be replaced. That is not the case with the BMW squealing issue. So is that's SUPPOSED to happen with BMW's? Is it my fault? Yes, brakes wear out, but this has nothing to do with the brakes being worn out.
What should be happening with this issue is a ginormous recall and some1 figure out how to prevent this stupid shit from happening in the first place.
Brake squeal is normal over time (from BMW bulletin re: brake squeal). You can have your brakes serviced to make it better but it may come back.
If I'm not mistaken, BMW brakes require replacement between 20,000km to 40,000km depending on driving conditions.
hey guys im the op, i got my acc banned for a week cuz of posting in buy/sell and not using PM. anyways,
The inconsistency is what pisses me up the most.
They didnt charge me for diagnostics fee. even though its a good thing, why would the SA bring it up in the first place then? is that a scare tactic so the mechanic doesnt have to do work? (btw, me nor bmw could replicate the problem so nothing was done)
About the squeling problem.
when they checked for squealing that determined it was wear and tear (brake dust buildup on rotors) and they didnt charge me diagnostic fees either. I believed it.
But reading more on the problem, i learned, and how can i be sure that brakedust is the problem. I mean come-on the brake squealing problem is a well known problem in the e90 community. theres even a TSB at http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/...p/B340808g.htm im guessing it is an official bmw site.
Anyways was my car really a case of brake dust buildup that nothing can be done about. Or is it the the problem in the TSB.
BJ dealer said its buildup but i think otherwise. how can i make them fix it.
On the drive with forman trying to replicate the grinding noise, i mentioned about this squealing, and how i did some reading online. and how i found a TSB.
he said well i have to becareful with online blah
so i said well its from the offical bmw site.
he said oh, well you also have to see whether its from the US or canada and such.
so i said ok, i havent been reading that far into it so ill research some more and come back.
Is there any reason why mechanics try to avoid fixing a TSB and lieing about it?
Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.
Not sure if you received my last PM, but I can help you look into this so there's no misunderstanding.
No it is not. I have dealt with Lexus, Honda, and Mitsubishi dealers for under warranty cars, and none of them charged me a diagnostic fee nor did they ever mention it...even for items that could potentially be related to wear and tear components.
I would personally feel insulted after buying a new car and being treated that way...I have better things to do than waste the dealers time and waste mine while I am waiting for them to diagnose it. So if I take the time to come to a dealer, that means there is a problem...and denying it plus charging extra is just a smack in the face.
I'll be sure not to buy any car from BJ if that is how they treat their customers, that's for sure.
If you just bought a new car, you probably wouldn't need to worry about a "wear and tear" item anytime soon.
What SG's implying is that at the end of the day, some one has to get paid for the time spent and work done. If the repair is not covered by BMW Warranty (Ie: Brakes, Alignment, Upholstery, Tires, Batteries, Paint Finish, etc), and the customer refused to pay for it, who's going to pay the Techs for time spent?
With that said, we will always listen to the customer's point of view and their reasons. That's why we have a management team and Customer Relations Dept to address your concerns.
Which dealership did you go to? You could have reset the TPM yourself.
Brian Jessel, I could have, but my car was due for service anyway so I thought it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for me. Plus, who knows if it may have been some other issue as the system didn't throw me the signal until a couple days after I had changed the wheels. And whether I could reset the TPM myself or not is besides the point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan3
Brake squeal is normal over time (from BMW bulletin re: brake squeal). You can have your brakes serviced to make it better but it may come back.
If I'm not mistaken, BMW brakes require replacement between 20,000km to 40,000km depending on driving conditions.
The brakes on my S2k and RSX squeal too.
I still had 50% of my brake pads left, they even told me that at the time....They did "service" my brakes and I haven't heard the noise since. That was about a 1.5-2 years ago.
Brian Jessel, I could have, but my car was due for service anyway so I thought it would be a lot easier for them than it would be for me. Plus, who knows if it may have been some other issue as the system didn't throw me the signal until a couple days after I had changed the wheels. And whether I could reset the TPM myself or not is besides the point...
I still had 50% of my brake pads left, they even told me that at the time....They did "service" my brakes and I haven't heard the noise since. That was about a 1.5-2 years ago.
Yes, whether or not you can reset the TPM light has nothing to do with your concern at hand, I was just wondering. You can PM me your info and I'll check out your Service History and provide you with a better explanation of what was communicated to you and why.
As for the brakes, I'm happy to hear that the squeal is not coming back.
in recent years, manufactuers have been pushing for better braking. thus you see cars coming out with standard 16in wheels now to clear the ever larger brake rotor. on that note, most know that brake pads wear out faster than brake rotors. to get the best optimal braking power possible, manufactuers have opted for a harder brake compound with a softer brake rotor. this also evens out the life span of both to be closer to similar hence why nowadays, the dealers tell you to get the pad and the rotor changed instead of just machining the rotor (also a good way to make more money).
so after 20,000km, you build up a lot of dust, and that causes a lot of the squeeling. its probably also the brake compound itself. if u ever looked at the front wheels on a bmw, there is a lot of brake dust! A LOT!
a good rule of thumb for any vehicle is to have your brakes checked every 1.5 to 2 years.
if you think bmw brakes are bad, you havent heard my hawk hps, every time, cold, wet, dry, rain, snow, dry, DRY, they squeal inches upon a dead stop, they squeal!!
and educated service advisors are hard to come by. they have to be good at customer service, BUT nowhere in the hiring book says they have to be educated about cars in general.
If you have a canadian BMW, you have no tpms. HOWEVER, switches wheels back n forth all the time, plays around with the computer that monitors it. so if you get the signal warning, either drive it around for a bit longer and hope the computer realizes it didnt goof up, or reset it ( i think there was a button you hold or mash like on a ps3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggaZed
Here is where I am confused about the situation.
This squealing issue is a common problem in almost all BMW's. Why is it that when I have driven to about 20,000 ticks that most BMW's start making this squealing noise. Is BMW telling me that this is normal in cars? I've had 2 Hondas and an Audi. My Honda started squealing when the brakes need to be replaced. That is not the case with the BMW squealing issue. So is that's SUPPOSED to happen with BMW's? Is it my fault? Yes, brakes wear out, but this has nothing to do with the brakes being worn out.
What should be happening with this issue is a ginormous recall and some1 figure out how to prevent this stupid shit from happening in the first place.
and word of caution, using the internet to do ur research is great, use it as a tool, but not the final be all and end all answer to what problems you have.
just make sure u provide the right info to help the tech along to solving your problems. providing them with a video of "2 girls 1 cup" will not get ur car back on the road... just because you found it on the internet.
if i believed everything i saw on the net, then everyone is emo, playing poker, and learning hebrew online.
maybe because you happen to just know someone there.
ever had ur car scanned by an obd reader from the dealership? they charge for that.
if the part is under warranty, then the dealership should not charge anything. if its something small, that could be quickly diognosed, then there should be no charge. however, if its something that requires putting the car on the hoist and or removing the wheels off the car to inspect, then a 1/2 hr inspection fee is standard practice.
smaller shops will bypass this, especially to familiar customers.
Nope, don't know anybody at those dealers apart from the service people who I meet when I bring the car in...and I "know" them as in remembering their name or how they look like. In my case Regency Lexus, Vancouver Mitsubishi, and Kingsway Honda...not some mom and pop places.
It is the dealers responsibility to look into customer issues with the car; that's why they are an official dealer. The whole point of a dealership is to ensure the customer has the best buying and servicing experience. Otherwise, we would be buying cars at SuperStore. It is their obligation to check if an issue is warranty related for free...and lets face it, most of it can be determined in quite a short time if it is wear and tear. The worst that the dealer would have to do is put it up and take off the wheels.
If they are not willing to do this for free, then they are not honouring warranty service which they are obligated to. Not to mention if they find it to be worn brake pads, they would most likely earn money from replacing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan3
If you just bought a new car, you probably wouldn't need to worry about a "wear and tear" item anytime soon.
What SG's implying is that at the end of the day, some one has to get paid for the time spent and work done. If the repair is not covered by BMW Warranty (Ie: Brakes, Alignment, Upholstery, Tires, Batteries, Paint Finish, etc), and the customer refused to pay for it, who's going to pay the Techs for time spent?
With that said, we will always listen to the customer's point of view and their reasons. That's why we have a management team and Customer Relations Dept to address your concerns.
Lots of newer cars have brake noise issues which are totally unrelated to wear and tear. The dealer could just charge a fee and say there is nothing wrong when something clearly is. What are you supposed to do then? Play the lottery again at a different dealer?
Techs are paid per hour, not by their hourly charge (which is like 4x their pay). They have free times and bays during the day that can be used to diagnose problems...most dealers have you make an appointment when they have a free slot in order to check out the problem. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the 3 dealers I went to don't look at stuff because they like me and have warm and fuzzy feelings that offset their costs.
hence why in my post i said if it was warranty related, the dealership SHOULD waive the inspection fee. wear and tear may or may not be covered under warranty. this all depends on what type of regular warranty the car has, and or any extended special warranty was purchased.
reading comprehension...
what is stopping someone from bringing in their car, having it inspected, then turning around and saying "ill just get it fixed at abc shop, but thanx for telling me whats wrong!". that is why there is an inspection fee, to prevent everyone from doing this. good technicians will tell you straight out weather u can live with the issue for a bit longer, or it needs immediate attention.
you may have an outstanding track record, and thus by history, you get the premium treatment.
not all techs are paid by hour as you describe. some are paid by job. its dependant on the dealership/shop policy.
I think you are confusing what is considered warranty. please desrcibe what your definition of warranty is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanz
Nope, don't know anybody at those dealers apart from the service people who I meet when I bring the car in...and I "know" them as in remembering their name or how they look like. In my case Regency Lexus, Vancouver Mitsubishi, and Kingsway Honda...not some mom and pop places.
It is the dealers responsibility to look into customer issues with the car; that's why they are an official dealer. The whole point of a dealership is to ensure the customer has the best buying and servicing experience. Otherwise, we would be buying cars at SuperStore. It is their obligation to check if an issue is warranty related for free...and lets face it, most of it can be determined in quite a short time if it is wear and tear. The worst that the dealer would have to do is put it up and take off the wheels.
If they are not willing to do this for free, then they are not honouring warranty service which they are obligated to. Not to mention if they find it to be worn brake pads, they would most likely earn money from replacing them.
Lots of newer cars have brake noise issues which are totally unrelated to wear and tear. The dealer could just charge a fee and say there is nothing wrong when something clearly is. What are you supposed to do then? Play the lottery again at a different dealer?
Techs are paid per hour, not by their hourly charge (which is like 4x their pay). They have free times and bays during the day that can be used to diagnose problems...most dealers have you make an appointment when they have a free slot in order to check out the problem. It's not rocket science, I'm sure the 3 dealers I went to don't look at stuff because they like me and have warm and fuzzy feelings that offset their costs.
hence why in my post i said if it was warranty related, the dealership SHOULD waive the inspection fee. wear and tear may or may not be covered under warranty. this all depends on what type of regular warranty the car has, and or any extended special warranty was purchased.
What's to prevent a dealer from saying it is not a warranty issue when it clearly is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG
reading comprehension...
eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG
what is stopping someone from bringing in their car, having it inspected, then turning around and saying "ill just get it fixed at abc shop, but thanx for telling me whats wrong!". that is why there is an inspection fee, to prevent everyone from doing this. good technicians will tell you straight out weather u can live with the issue for a bit longer, or it needs immediate attention.
Why would anybody get it fixed somewhere else and pay when it is covered under warranty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG
you may have an outstanding track record, and thus by history, you get the premium treatment.
Not really, they just do it because it is policy. If they didn't, I would raise hell for them trying to charge me x amount of dollars just to see if it is under warranty. I've had a warranty repair rejected that required a test drive + take off wheels, and I didn't get charged anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG
not all techs are paid by hour as you describe. some are paid by job. its dependant on the dealership/shop policy.
That's usually in smaller shops. They don't do warranty work and are not certified for it usually. But anyways, regardless, they have funds to do this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by !SG
I think you are confusing what is considered warranty. please desrcibe what your definition of warranty is?
No I think you are confusing warranty with no warranty at all. Warranty = either b2b or powertrain limited for x amount of years or kms. If the car has a valid warranty, then it is the dealerships job to diagnose any complaint that may be related to the parts covered under the warranty.
If there is any squeaky/vibrating brake TSB for example, it is their job to inspect the brakes to confirm whether it is a problem or not. They have funds to cover this sort of stuff, and they will most likely get money from the customer to replace them since they are already there if they simply need new pads.
well, just because you per say didn't get charged for it, doesn't mean they didn't charge anything. They'll charge back to warranty for flat rate diagnosis time, in which case alot of times dealers won't tell you.
Dealers will charge warranty if they can get away with it, otherwise they'll charge you and usually they'll tell you upfront. If they don't, lucky you because they probably internal the charges as a good will gesture.
Say for example you have a noise issue on brakes, they'll shove it onto the hoist to determine the fault. Bear in mind the moment it goes onto the hoist, tech time is running already. Most of the time, the dealer would tell you of the diagnosis charge that you are responsible for on the spot IF they cannot fault it to a warranty issue or manufacturer defect. If they can fault it and it is consistent with your complaint, big chance it will be completely covered by the manufacturer. If they cannot fault it to a manufacturer, which means no coverage, then you are responsible for the charges incurred since the car is hoisted up whether it'd be flat rate diagnosis or per hour charges.
it's just business, someone has to pay. Dealer or not, it is still a business regardless of who they represent. It is allowed by the parent/corporate office. IF you happen to disagree with a charge, you can always write to the corporate office to voice your concerns if you cannot resolve with inhouse customer relations or service managers, they are there for that purpose.
all, see thats what i mean, b2b, bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear.
wear and tear is just that. if its something like oil change, it will actually say, lifetime oil change, or actually list it out on the warranty card. however, brakes usual are not covered. unless its a manufactuer defect, then thats considered manufactuer warranty.
that is why there is the whole inspection fee in place, if you choose to get the car fixed at the same place it was inspected this fee is usually waived, cancelled, removed, gone. this is to prevent ppl from bringing in their car, have it inspected, told whats wrong with the car, then have the customer drive away and bring it to a cheaper shop using cheaper inferior aftermarket parts. this comes down to the original question, warranty. brake pads are not covered under warranty. most fluids are not covered under warranty unless outlined specifically in the warranty card.
a dealer has to be credible for everything they do under that car makers brand. they get audits to show and confirm that anything they do under warranty is, lack of a better word, warranted. they represent the brand, and its reputation, so thus if they are incorrectly representing that brand, they will be held accountable. It doesnt take rocket science to know there are far more complications to running a dealership than "sell cars, fix cars".
this comes back to the original question, what you consider as warranty? because bumper to bumper, does not mean wear and tear. read the warranty card, it will outline it clearly, and clearer than i can.
so... you are one of those guys that raises hell at futureshop/bestbuy like in those youtube videos =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanz
What's to prevent a dealer from saying it is not a warranty issue when it clearly is?
eh?
Why would anybody get it fixed somewhere else and pay when it is covered under warranty?
Not really, they just do it because it is policy. If they didn't, I would raise hell for them trying to charge me x amount of dollars just to see if it is under warranty. I've had a warranty repair rejected that required a test drive + take off wheels, and I didn't get charged anything.
That's usually in smaller shops. They don't do warranty work and are not certified for it usually. But anyways, regardless, they have funds to do this.
No I think you are confusing warranty with no warranty at all. Warranty = either b2b or powertrain limited for x amount of years or kms. If the car has a valid warranty, then it is the dealerships job to diagnose any complaint that may be related to the parts covered under the warranty.
If there is any squeaky/vibrating brake TSB for example, it is their job to inspect the brakes to confirm whether it is a problem or not. They have funds to cover this sort of stuff, and they will most likely get money from the customer to replace them since they are already there if they simply need new pads.
and word of caution, using the internet to do ur research is great, use it as a tool, but not the final be all and end all answer to what problems you have.
just make sure u provide the right info to help the tech along to solving your problems. providing them with a video of "2 girls 1 cup" will not get ur car back on the road... just because you found it on the internet.
if i believed everything i saw on the net, then everyone is emo, playing poker, and learning hebrew online.
Yes you are right! that is why i wrote
Quote:
Or am i being a internet biased annoying person. This might be the case. dont know but im going to try to capture the sound on video and see what e90 community thinks about it. once i have approval, then i can be more confident at bitching to the dealers.
Despite my bitching on RS, I havent disagreed with anything the a BJ employ has said, because i dont know who is right. That is why i plan to make the video and show it to the e90 community or even just jiggazed to decide. I dont know if the squeal im hearing is what the e90s are referring to so yea.
If even just jiggazed confirms that the problem he had was same, then thats whenn all hell breaks lose.
Why was his fixed but mine?
Why didnt they fix it the first place.
why do i have to create this thread and research when it couldve been a known fix from the dealer?
And As i mentioned before, im sure i do have a Service inclusive 3/60Term.
which on the BMW site says
Brake lining, Brake rotors, engine belts, wiper blades, clutch components, minor adjustments.
Is brake lining / rotors = brake pads? The package i have gives me free brake pad replacement if i go under a certain % left.
Anyways, if it is the package that i have, shouldntSqueal should fall under brake rotors and minor adjustments no?
I asked if my package does anything to cover that.
but obviously they said, oh well the squeal isnt covered under that package etc.
if what you find is suppose to be covered under warranty, go give them hell! im a believer that SA's should be at least up to date with some basic knowledge on the cars they are suggesting services on. What i suggest is print out all material you can, and use those as possible issues to look into.
What i was trying to illustrate in my posts was that not everything is covered under warranty. bumper to bumper does not mean that if u crash ur car, the dealership will give you a new hood, door, fender. yes they sit between ur front bumper, and rear bumper, but does not mean they are covered under warranty.
The worse i ever had to deal with was tire shops that were first introduced to the tpms sensors. they were cutting them off and throwing them away when doing new tires on wheels/cars that had them. Then those customers come to me (the shop i worked) and ask us to diognose the problem. In the end, no one wants to pay another 70 bucks per tire for a new tpms just because an uneducated tire shop decided to throw the old ones away like regular tire stems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezekiel
Yes you are right! that is why i wrote
Despite my bitching on RS, I havent disagreed with anything the a BJ employ has said, because i dont know who is right. That is why i plan to make the video and show it to the e90 community or even just jiggazed to decide. I dont know if the squeal im hearing is what the e90s are referring to so yea.
If even just jiggazed confirms that the problem he had was same, then thats whenn all hell breaks lose.
Why was his fixed but mine?
Why didnt they fix it the first place.
why do i have to create this thread and research when it couldve been a known fix from the dealer?
Request to go for a road test with the Shop Foreman. Maybe it's normal, then you can take your car back. If you need your brakes serviced, it's not covered under warranty so you'll have to pay.
If you still have a problem or concern, PM me your number and I'll look into it for you tomorrow at work.
should determine whether or not they have service inclusive package before you make that statement Tim
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should determine whether or not they have service inclusive package before you make that statement Tim
