Flame Posts and Thanks Policy

[SkinnyPupp]

Since everyone got carried away, let's wrap this up neatly, in notation form:

1) I posted a rant about how I think 3D movies are dumb, and it is the most specific possible example of artificial demand being created by the studios. Consumerism at its worst.

2) Some people agreed, some people said 3D movies are shitty, etc. Some people said "just don't go" which kind of missed the point, but OK.

3) Someone decided to try to prove me wrong somehow, by taking an example that completely disproved the point they tried to make, and proved mine. I was talking about an artificial demand being created, and he somehow equated that to a TRUE demand being held from consumers, which I said before in another thread was bullshit.

4) That person got all butt-hurt and started flaming me. Points were given

5) He kept flaming, and I took the bait. Oops. When people ignorantly "thanked" his flames, a form of flaming in itself, I deleted them. Then everyone got even more butt-hurt

6) I tried to diffuse the situation by deleting most of the blatant flamers, giving out points here and there.

7) For some reason, people are still bitching about having their flame-thanks deleted. Is it not obvious that if you "thank" a flame or toll post, that is a form of trolling too? If someone makes a flame post that is worth of points, your thanks will be deleted too.

8) Then someone thought it would be cute to copy the thread to "fight club". That is as low as it gets. So I just closed it, and made this post.

9) Have a nice day

[SkinnyPupp]

I have copied this post from a FC thread, so people have a place to discuss it in a mature manner, if possible.

[Blinky]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Since everyone got carried away, let's wrap this up neatly, in notation form:

1) I posted a rant about how I think 3D movies are dumb, and it is the most specific possible example of artificial demand being created by the studios. Consumerism at its worst.

2) Some people agreed, some people said 3D movies are shitty, etc. Some people said "just don't go" which kind of missed the point, but OK.

3) Someone decided to try to prove me wrong somehow, by taking an example that completely disproved the point they tried to make, and proved mine. I was talking about an artificial demand being created, and he somehow equated that to a TRUE demand being held from consumers, which I said before in another thread was bullshit.

4) That person got all butt-hurt and started flaming me. Points were given

5) He kept flaming, and I took the bait. Oops. When people ignorantly "thanked" his flames, a form of flaming in itself, I deleted them. Then everyone got even more butt-hurt

6) I tried to diffuse the situation by deleting most of the blatant flamers, giving out points here and there.

7) For some reason, people are still bitching about having their flame-thanks deleted. Is it not obvious that if you "thank" a flame or toll post, that is a form of trolling too? If someone makes a flame post that is worth of points, your thanks will be deleted too.

8) Then someone thought it would be cute to copy the thread to "fight club". That is as low as it gets. So I just closed it, and made this post.

9) Have a nice day

Skinnypupp,

I have nothing personal against you. I don't particularly care about pro-3d or anti-3d advocacy (or for that matter modded FDs vs C5/C6 ). I know that you've made many changes here and you've tried to improve RS. Thanks.

That said, I think in this case that you are taking the wrong approach as a moderator. If you, posting as a "user", get caught in a flamefest, you should NOT be moderating that thread. You should NOT be giving points for flamefests in which you participate, because there is a conflict of interest. This should be self-evident, but apparently is not. By posting point #5 I think you show that you have disregard for other peoples' opinions (be they justified or not). You dismiss your posts with an "oops" whilst others get rather heavy-handed moderation.

Per point #6, if you truly wish to diffuse a situation, withdraw/apologize or try to come to a consensus or a relative agreement to disagree. Be the bigger man. Completely deleting other peoples' comments is not the way to go. Judging by your thoughts on restriction of information flow in China, I think that you know that heavyhanded deletion of other points of view should be avoided, yet you do this yourself, by your own admission.

If you truly believe in #7, you should be deleting a crapload of posts... an absolute imperial assload of 'em... not just those in which you're involved.
And for point #8, I believe that ... it looks like it was a MODERATOR who moved the thread to FC.

Anyways, my thoughts. Take them as you may.

[moomooCow]

Just to clarify, my thanks for Blinky is not merely a "flame-thanks," I agree with everything he said in his post.

[trancehead]

LOL dont tell me you delete yet another thread in...FC

THE_AK was the op.

[twitchyzero]

rs has gone Gobbels on us

[C.Dub]

It is also unfair how a mod can take out the fail thing on himself. When this guy usually say as many dumb shit as he does.

[SkinnyPupp]

I tried to open a mature discussion on things, and this is what happens.

[tiger_handheld]

I think it would've been more mature if u left the other posts un-edited , and started this one.

just my 2 cents from reading everything.

[SkinnyPupp]

I deleted the obvious flamer posts, and people got up in arms. Maybe that makes people want to gang up even more and "prove something" against me, I don't know. Everyone loves to bash authority, that's for sure.

SG wanted to remove the "thanks" and "fail" a long time ago, but I wanted to keep it for something unique and sometimes funny. But if people take it that seriously, that when they thank a flame post and it gets deleted, and they get all up in arms about it, maybe we should take it down after all.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I tried to open a mature discussion on things, and this is what happens.

Unfortunately I think this is due to two things.
one: The nature of revscene. Following John Gabriel's greater internet fuckwad theorem,

John Gabriel's "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory" was posited in the Penny Arcade strip published March 19, 2004. Commenting on gamers' unsociable tendencies while playing online games such as Unreal Tournament, it states that if a normal person is given both anonymity and an audience, he or she can become a "Total Fuckwad", which is slang for a very disagreeable, and sometimes verbally violent person. New York University adjunct professor Clay Shirky, who studies social and economic effects of Internet technologies, explains: "There’s a large crowd and you can act out in front of it without paying any personal price to your reputation,” which "creates conditions most likely to draw out the typical Internet user’s worst impulses". In an Advocate article about online homophobia, this theory was used to account for behavior on online forums where one can remain anonymous in front of an audience: for instance, posting comments on popular YouTube videos.

As a result of the anonymity of the internet, people tend to say and react to things in ways they would most likely not in real life. Ie: a discussion which may or may not begin as serious will quickly degrade into a horrible shitstorm simply because they feel that they can type whatever they want as they will never see anyone face to face.

Two: your own tendency to make unilateral decisions as far as threads go.

I am wholeheartedly in support of your monetizing efforts for RS. God knows that Those Up On High don't need any more stress or issues in dealing with Revscene--it is now much less of a part-time fulltime job. And while I realize that part of making revscene a popular place is in bringing serious discussion and getting people to find RS online via search engines and reference...there is a user base here already. If you disagreed with some of our points in that specific thread (ie: "If you don't like 3D don't go") then perhaps you should clarify your original post or post replies that clarify that you didn't mean that the movies themselves are always shitty, but that the entire concept of 3D is just a new way of creating artificial demand for unneeded products. Perhaps an analogy of a similar situation? One that comes to mind is the "4-D" movies they have in korea--moving seats, mist sprinklers and the like--all to "immerse you more".

When I first became a mod, I gave some guy points because he insulted me in a thread I created. I was then told by the other mods that when it comes to one's own threads, it's best to simply report posts and allow cooler heads--other mods--to clean up where necessary.

I have to say, I agree with blink. If you were to delete those posts in the 3D movie thread, there are tons of others in dozens of other threads that need to be deleted and given points to. But then most of our main volume posters would be banned.

Believe me, I am all in support of keeping RS a mature place. But part of that I feel is balance. And if all mods simply deleted posts that disagreed with theirs...

Well, RS wouldn't be what it is today.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I deleted the obvious flamer posts, and people got up in arms. Maybe that makes people want to gang up even more and "prove something" against me, I don't know. Everyone loves to bash authority, that's for sure.

When I looked at those posts, some were 'flames', and some were not. But like I said, if I deleted every post that said "oh, great, another Timpost", then A) there would be a ton more deletions, and B) users would find themselves banned near instantly. I realize, the logical extension of this point is, "So why don't you just moderate more/better?" And the answer is: "Because it hadn't been a problem." If there is a general consensus from the mods or from Those Up On High, then I and the other moderators will do our best to enforce as many new rules as possible--but that it may crush users' tendencies to post.

SG wanted to remove the "thanks" and "fail" a long time ago, but I wanted to keep it for something unique and sometimes funny. But if people take it that seriously, that when they thank a flame post and it gets deleted, and they get all up in arms about it, maybe we should take it down after all.

I think they are unique and sometimes funny. It seems, however, that you are taking it just as seriously as we are--if they're of such negligible intelligence...why bother doing anything with them?

[SkinnyPupp]

I don't just "simply delete posts that disagree" with mine though. I only delete offensive flaming and trolling posts. Particularly when people try to change the topic and begin attacking other users instead.

If someone disagrees with me, that is great. I love it! I'll argue about it all day long, if you want to try to convince me that you think you can blow your nose with your mouth open. But if you start with personal attacks (and calling me an idiot or whatever does not count as a personal attack), and the goons see the opportunity to pile on, that is when shit gets deleted.

And I don't do it just to serve myself either. I delete a lot of posts throughout the day that are just mindless flame posts. Most recently with the thread Hyde started about food in Macau... Some moron started flaming, and the goons piled on. I was able to put an end to it, and the thread continued on to become a somewhat useful on-topic thread. Of course that didn't stop them from starting threads in FC, but whatever.

I think the problem is I treat everyone the same. Whether you are posting for the first time, or are one of the "cool kids" that has been around forever, or if you are Jeffield or AsNoobAsItGets. I don't care. If I disagree, will say so. And if you are being an idiot, I will say that too. I guess that's the thing I have to change. I see your point about the Internet Fuckwad thing. I honestly don't think most of the people who post stupid shit are genuine idiots. With a few exceptions of course. I have to be able to realize when someone is just being a fuckwad, and try not let them turn me into one too

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I tried to open a mature discussion on things, and this is what happens.

And this SURPRISES you?

A mature discussion on RS has only a slightly longer lifespan than it would on 4chan. A moderator attempting to defend his actions by creating a "mature discussion" seriously shortens that lifespan.

[SkinnyPupp]

good point

Lesson learned!

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I deleted the obvious flamer posts, and people got up in arms. Maybe that makes people want to gang up even more and "prove something" against me, I don't know. Everyone loves to bash authority, that's for sure.

It's not that... as others have stated, it's because you deleted posts flaming YOU, when there are plenty of other pure-flame posts that are simply left alone. This thread isn't the first time, either, that you've edited and/or deleted posts that flamed/owned YOU SPECIFICALLY.

It's not "authority" as a whole that people are bashing, it's YOUR ABUSE of it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Soundy

It's not that... as others have stated, it's because you deleted posts flaming YOU, when there are plenty of other pure-flame posts that are simply left alone. This thread isn't the first time, either, that you've edited and/or deleted posts that flamed/owned YOU SPECIFICALLY.

It's not "authority" as a whole that people are bashing, it's YOUR ABUSE of it.

Wrong. I delete any post that attempts to derail a thread into personal attacks on a person.

[LiquidTurbo]

SP, I really have nothing against you. You post interesting stuff from time to time and often its pretty good. For example your stuff in the past about saturated fats, etc.

But I would appreciate it if you take a step back at your methods. First of all, you post often in a condescending manner, which doesn't not contribute to the 'mature' discussion. For every thanks, you hand out four fails. I don't see why it's your job to delete other peoples Thanks, especially I can't think of a plausible situation where you would delete Fails as well.

You often call people idiots and retarded, which absolutely is a form of trolling and flaming. It doesn't mean that they aren't actually retards, but like you said yourself, they're not really retarded. It doesn't really contribute to a positive environment for this forum.

Point is, I think if you lightened up a little you wouldn't have the 'trolling and flaming' problems you are talking about.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Point is, I think if you lightened up a little you wouldn't have the 'trolling and flaming' problems you are talking about.

this

In the thread you deleted RFlush gave very good points and was worthy of its thanks yet you still deleted it because there was one line of personal attack.

like what graeme has said, if you are going to delete posts any threads with personal attacks,be consistent and you might as well do that with the majority of the threads on here.

edit: thread like this with personal insults flying all over the place with no moderation: http://www.revscene.net/forums/auto-...o-t610743.html

[InvisibleSoul]

I have to agree with the general feeling that you power trip and abuse your powers to a certain degree.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

SG wanted to remove the "thanks" and "fail" a long time ago, but I wanted to keep it for something unique and sometimes funny. But if people take it that seriously, that when they thank a flame post and it gets deleted, and they get all up in arms about it, maybe we should take it down after all.

I'm not sure if you've ever explained it, but if you did, I must have missed it. What is the reason that you removed the ability for you to be failed?

It adds to the holier-than-thou impression that you give off. You dish out fails like nobody's business, but nobody can ever give you one. Nobody can be right 100% of the time.

[SkinnyPupp]

I never removed the ability, it was never there. Admins and certain users (RCMP officers) have it disabled, and I think it's pretty easy to understand why.

I will lighten up my language a bit, but when people are being really stupid, it's really hard. I promise I will try harder.

As far as any examples you give with flames posted that I did not delete, that just means I never read that particular thread, or missed any flame posts. I could give examples of where I did delete flames and dish out points, but honestly I have a lot better things to do here, getting the new server running smoothly, etc.

Let's just leave it at that for now.

[InvisibleSoul]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I never removed the ability, it was never there. Admins and certain users (RCMP officers) have it disabled, and I think it's pretty easy to understand why.

I will lighten up my language a bit, but when people are being really stupid, it's really hard. I promise I will try harder.

As far as any examples you give with flames posted that I did not delete, that just means I never read that particular thread, or missed any flame posts. I could give examples of where I did delete flames and dish out points, but honestly I have a lot better things to do here, getting the new server running smoothly, etc.

Let's just leave it at that for now.

It's easy to understand why you removed the ability to fail RCMP officers.

But I can't think of any obvious reason why admins can't receive fails. You said yourself that the whole Thanks and Fails is not to be taken very seriously, so what's the rationale for you deciding that you should not be able to receive Fails?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

hey i have an idea...

instead of deleting trolls or megaflames... why don't we make it like the spoiler tag

but make it a flame tag. or offensive tag, so people have to expand it to read it.

of course this is edited by a mod or a user can put it in if they're gonna intentionally make a very offensive attack (but still constructive )

[AsianRice]

*edit

[hotjoint]

Good idea Ulic

[LiquidTurbo]

Semi off-topic, I think Thanks should be renamed to "Like". Sometimes I want to 'like' a post, and it's not necessarily in a form as a Thanks. Obviously Fail is perfect the way it is.