Does anyone help anyone anymore?

[Marioo1991]

Originally Posted by ecchiecchi

I never thought I'd say this but, I have more respect for the bum who died than the people who automatically think about the cost and the risk.

I agree with this, you shouldnt put a value on someones life by using a cost/benefit analysis, but the US health care system does.

[ecchiecchi]

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

It's called diffusion of responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusi...responsibility

If it was only one person or a few people who witnessed it happening, there is a far greater likelihood that they would have taken action.

But since there were dozens of people that saw it, nobody wants to take charge, and everyone expects or wants someone else to do something about it, but in the end nobody does.

Now that people know of this theory, they should never ever fall prey to it.

Always assume that everyone's too pansy to do something about it.

[bloodmack]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.

Im pretty sure if we could own a handgun legally we wouldn't be able to fire it legally. Sure a gun will persuade a guy not to mess with you, but if he's smart he knows your gun isn't most likely loaded.

[q0192837465]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Your employer is going to penalize you for helping someone out? Any reasonable boss would understand.

I've taken first aid courses in the past and from what I've been told, the Good Samaritan Act will protect you if you cannot save someone's life or prevent injuries. Unless you are grossly negligent, there's little chance that the victim will sue you.

You can't break it down into a simple cost-benefit analysis. It's not necessarily about being a "hero" either; it's about doing what's right.

And how often does this happen? That a mugger turns around and stabs someone else to death?

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

[Marioo1991]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

I agree with your arguement, but I would find it hard to live with myself if someone died and there was something I could have done to prevent it.

[choda]

So I was leaving my review session walking toward Koerner, when I see this blind man walking around confused asking different people to help him but most people just blow him off or don't really care to help. So I approach him and ask him what he's looking for, he says Buchanan tower, now really, the guy was at Buchanan B (which if you don't is literally a 3 or 4 minute walk to the tower) and no one could just help this guy out and walk him over there ??? WTF is wrong with people!! I took the guy to buchanan tower and he was a really cool guy, sucks people don't take the time of day to help people out anymore, fucking selfish pricks.

[ecchiecchi]

You may not know, but sometimes it just takes for a person to do something, to save another from a lot of trouble.

Case and point- What if someone pressed that silent alarm on the train? Would the thugs have escaped? Maybe, but at least the chances were lower.

You don't have to stand up and put your life on the line. You don't have to be a hero. Don't just sit there and watch the whole thing thinking about how it's not your problem. It's not prime time drama. At least do what you can to help someone out.

And honestly, with the story of the bum getting stabbed while saving a woman- Can you honestly say that everyone passing by had something more important to attend to? Or were they just too busy not caring?

Reminds me of the story my gf told me about how a girl getting raped by a bum outside of HMV @ Robson and people just formed a circle and watched.

If it's anywhere within your reach- try to help even if it's something small. You don't have to be a hero. Just don't be the asshole that ignores people who obviously need help.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

Any reasonable employer will not penalize u, but how many reasonable bosses are out there? It doesnt matter if u'r out there trying to save the world from evil aliens, u dun work, u dun get paid, end of story.

Okay, so worse-case scenario I don't get paid for half a day. Is that really going to make a difference to my life in the grand scheme of things? I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried to do the right thing even if I have to forego take-out for the next month. If you manage your finances so precariously that you can't afford to help someone out lest you lose a half-day of pay, you've got other problems.

Responsibility has more than just 1 dimension. Yes, you are morally responsible to help the person in need. But at the same time, you are ALSO responsible to your wife & kids. Before you charge in there to save the day, have you thought about what will happen if you are injured and can't work for the next 6 months? what if u get sued and are in for an expensive legal battle? How will that affect ur family? Yes, you're right that you can't break it down to simple cost/benefit analysis. But it doesnt mean that it should not be considered.

Who's going to sue you? You are protected under our laws if you try to help someone out.

I don't have kids, but I know that if I did, I would want to set an example for them. If I were to get injured, well I can at least go out knowing that I did the right thing - something which I would hope in the future my children would understand and respect. You know why we have this type of behaviour in our society today? Because, there are fewer and fewer people willing to stand up for what's right.

[Mr.HappySilp]

YouTube

[Leparto]

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?

[babykiller]

Originally Posted by Leparto

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?

Why would you go that way? You could always start with "hey stop mugging that guy"...

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

Originally Posted by Leparto

say the mugger hasnt done anything yet and has only threatened the guy for his wallet and you overheard

so u take action and punch him in the head couple times and cause a concussion.

can the mugger take action and sue u?

with canada's gayass system, i gurantee he can

[q0192837465]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Okay, so worse-case scenario I don't get paid for half a day. Is that really going to make a difference to my life in the grand scheme of things? I will be able to sleep at night knowing that I tried to do the right thing even if I have to forego take-out for the next month. If you manage your finances so precariously that you can't afford to help someone out lest you lose a half-day of pay, you've got other problems.



Who's going to sue you? You are protected under our laws if you try to help someone out.

I don't have kids, but I know that if I did, I would want to set an example for them. If I were to get injured, well I can at least go out knowing that I did the right thing - something which I would hope in the future my children would understand and respect. You know why we have this type of behaviour in our society today? Because, there are fewer and fewer people willing to stand up for what's right.

I'm not justifying that it is right for people to just stand there and do nothing. If I'm in that situation I'll press the silent alarm for sure. What I'm trying to say is that we should also consider the other side of the issue. Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

[Gt-R R34]

Originally Posted by Walperstyle

I would have helped...but its Kind of difficult when the government of canada makes it almost impossible for Canadians to own handguns legally

I have no problem with stopping someone if odds are in my favor. me vs 2 guys that could potentially be armed, probably I'll take a picture, give a statement and go to court if I have to, but I'd rather have the law on my side to bring out the ol .45 and tell them to make my day.

You need to move to the USA. That's never been what Canada's been about.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by iRomey

Nowadays it's very rare to find good samaritans..

I disagree. I've been the recipient of, and the giver of random acts of kindness/assistance many a times over. I've even seen others do it as well in great regularity.

Or maybe I just live in Vancouver and as long as a person asks for help really politely, whether it be asking for the time, directions, or change a tire, I've never seen anyone get refused. As long as the request is being asked politely.

However, I've never been mugged though, or assaulted with a weapon so I don't know how much that'll
deter people's nature to assist over their nature of self preservation.

Originally Posted by notching

we asians don't like minding other people's businesses

What are you talking about? They are the most likely to stick their nose in other people's business. As long as it's dirt and gossip.

[v.Rossi]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

these days ppls mentality is every man for themself, sad but true tho..

these days? it's always been like this.

[Gt-R R34]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

I'm not justifying that it is right for people to just stand there and do nothing. If I'm in that situation I'll press the silent alarm for sure. What I'm trying to say is that we should also consider the other side of the issue. Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

And this is why, 1. no one help no one anymore.

Selfish attitudes. No one has respect or common decencies anymore.
You PROVE my point on how no one helps anyone because everyone is selfish. your past couple of post literally exemplify what's wrong in the world.

Your posts also show why terrorism works, and why suppression of races have been a fact of life for some people to this date.

[v.Rossi]

People still help people and always will. Can we not paint everyone with the same brush here?

If you're expecting everyone to be helping everyone, well wake up it ain't gonna happen.

[ae101]

serious like ecchiecchi said, if u have time to think about how to react when someone needs help in a time like this then u can go hell

[chun]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

cost/benefit

Cost: calling 911 & stay at the scene, getting questioned by police = losing half day of pay, the mugger might target u instead, the old guy could sue u

Benefit: a thank you if u'r lucky

You do the math.

To add insults to injuries



Sauce: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...4252.htmlstory

It's just not worth it to be a good Samaritan

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ba...of_wisdom.html

It's not about doing the "math" and figuring out what provides more utility all the time. It's about living LIFE and making WISE choices to do the RIGHT thing.

It's embarrassing how many people here are arguing about how they would lose pay, lose a job, what they would do if they had a gun, how they have to think about the RULES on helping another person in danger. Not just embarrassing actually, it's FUCKING EMBARRASSING.

(don't get me wrong, you don't have to be hero and beat up the thieves, but do SOMETHING to help; in the original article, noone even pressed the silent alarm or called 911)

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

Some people have more to lose than others. Someone working $12/hr to feed his wife and 2 kids has WAY MORE to lose than a bachelor making 70k a year. Respect is great, but it doesnt put food on the table.

Such as? I would argue that as a man, he has no choice but to stand up for what's right.

You also neatly presume that the victim does not have life insurance. Most people, even working for large companies which pay wages of $12/hour, provide their employees with some form of life insurance.

Look at it this way. Say u successfully fend off the mugger, what is the outcome? The guy says thank you, and you go on your merry way. All is great. But what if you fail? You get cut up and you have to stay in the hospital for the next 2 months. Or you accidentally stabbed the mugger and the mugger is now suing u for assult. What then? Are you going to feel good that you saved an old man when ur wife and kids are getting evicted cuz they can't pay rent and need to go to the food bank cuz they have no moeny for food? I know this is an extreme case but these are issues people have to consider in real life.

Yeah, it is an extreme case and rarely does this happen.

Most petty criminals are not stupid. If you think about it, they choose to "negotiate" (i.e. threatening someone with a knife or gun) because they do not want to resort to the messier alternative which is to shoot or stab someone (which is far easier to do to get what they want.) If someone stands up to them and says something, or acts in a way that makes it less easy for them to get what they want (i.e. pushing the silent alarm, calling the police, etc.), they will move on and find an easier target.

In your scenario, if I were to succeed, I wouldn't expect more than a thanks. It's not about me; it's about my role in upholding society's morals.

Btw, if I were to "accidentally" stab him, it would be a criminal offence, not a civil one. The last time I checked, you are allowed to use a "reasonable" amount of force to defend yourself from attacks. I would be able to defend myself (with a good lawyer) in court, and in all likelihood, I would be acquitted considering the circumstances, likely media attention, etc.

[q0192837465]

Originally Posted by Gt-R R34

And this is why, 1. no one help no one anymore.

Selfish attitudes. No one has respect or common decencies anymore.
You PROVE my point on how no one helps anyone because everyone is selfish. your past couple of post literally exemplify what's wrong in the world.

Your posts also show why terrorism works, and why suppression of races have been a fact of life for some people to this date.

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

Okay, so that person read Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan. I'd like to believe we're a little more sophisticated and learned than savages.

[JesseBlue]

talk is cheap....do something about it...

[moomooCow]

Originally Posted by q0192837465

It's sad, I agree.

But I forgot who posted it, but in another thread someone wrote that the world is operated out of selfishness. You have food on ur table because the farmer/butcher/fishermen are selfish and want your money. They do not work their asses off to make the work a better place.

I still think it's human nature to kick into self-preservation mode when encountering a threat. That's how we are designed. It's neither right or wrong, it just is. I dunno, maybe I'm just too much of a pessimist.

I think whoever you're paraphrasing was speaking more in terms of the world's economy. Everyone looking out for their own self interests is generally how the economy works but you can't apply this same principle to the way you live your life.

I understand where you're coming from when you say you should probably consider all the risks you're taking but as someone else mentioned earlier, what happens if the tables were turned and you were the victim? People have got to stop being so selfish... if you apply this to the whole skytrain, you now have a load of people against two guys.