Israel Murders Members of Aid Flotilla

[StylinRed]

The Turks Airforce and Navy is quite formidable

and the sheer size of the military and proximity to Israel would mean that if a war did break out (i highly highly highly highly highly highly doubt that it would) israel would most certainly have to use their Nukes (and judging from the past they'll have no qualms in doing so)

[tool001]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

I don't think you have a sense of numbers


Turkish Military

Fit for
military service 17,223,506 males, age 16-49 [2],
16,995,299 (2009 est.) females, age 16-49 [2]

Israel Military

226,903 males, age 17–49 (2000 est.),
1,192,319 females, age 17–49 (2000 est.)


The turks arn't riding around on camels with scimitars, and they have had several skirmishes with greek air force since the 50's.

you do know that foot soilders dont hold the same value in a full scale was as it use too?
most full scales wars are about air Superiority/blockades, once u have that, rest falls in place.

israel does bosts highly advanced conventional weapons. (unconfirmed nukes 20+ warheads). And needless to say they have had more realtime war exp. than any other nations, except US.
that said,
a full blow war is not gonna be good for any side..

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by tool001

you do know that foot soilders dont hold the same value in a full scale was as it use too?
most full scales wars are about air Superiority/blockades, once u have that, rest falls in place.

the proximity of the two makes grunts completely relevant; and as for air superiority Turkey has the 3rd largest airforce in the world and they've been involved in every major engagement since the world war (the first one)

(granted their jets are a bit old; all the new ones lightnings typhoons won't be delivered until later this year and next)

they've got quite a lot of air defense too yada yada



we're really straying and considering something less likely than the USA not vetoing any UN action against Israel :P

[m!chael]

I really hope Turkey and Israel don't go to war. It's gonna be detrimental to my vacation plans this summer.

However, if they do go to war, Israel is gonna destroy Turkey. This isn't gonna be one of those Gaza operations where Hamas guys are dressed in civilian clothing, snipers hiding on top of mosques, booby trapped houses type shit. This will be conventional warfare. You can count on Israel destroying the Turkish air force withing the first day and then wreaking destruction on Turkish ground forces. But to be honest I really hope that doesn't happen.

[belka]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

Your saying the christians muslims arabs etc left the area which is now Israel of their own volition... and it had nothing to do with the violence and pressure enacted by the Jewish terror groups?

A lot left because they didn't want to live in a "Jewish State" and a lot left because of violence and pressure. Now, in today's Israel anyone can live and work freely regardless of race or color. Jews still have it better but you have to remember its THEIR country. Do Israeli's have the same rights to enter any country they wish? NO. Algeria, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Yemen all deny entry of anyone with an Israeli passport OR an Israeli stamp. Who hates who more?

You're trying to dismiss it as a "tragedy of war"; just like how Israel dismisses all the civilian deaths when "targetting terrorists" but i can't accept that i'm sorry (and neither should you)

I accept "civilian" deaths when they are used as WILLING human shields by Hamas. They hide their factories and rocket launch sites in schools and hospitals to gain sympathy from the delusional anti-Israeli protestors. Of course most Canadians, including the clueless activists, can't even imagine what it's like, yet they jump on the anti-Israeli bandwagon and espouse anti-Israeli sentiment because it's the hip thing to do. They want to lift the Gaza blockade and let in the flowers and chocolates, and missiles from their friends in Iran, giving Israel a legitimate reason to finally level it. One wonders if any of them even know what Hamas' priorities are, they must honestly think that Hamas is some kind of peaceful movement of secular reformers who care about their people's welfare.

Turkey's Population = 73 million

Mandated Conscription.

Israel Population = 7 Million.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

How are you gonna get all those 73 million Turks into Israel, march them through Lebanon? Swim? If the unlikely war between Israel and Turkey broke out, it would be a slaughter, Israel would own the sky, and in like all modern wars, you own the sky, you own the war.

[m!chael]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

the proximity of the two makes grunts completely relevant; and as for air superiority Turkey has the 3rd largest airforce in the world and they've been involved in every major engagement since the world war (the first one)

(granted their jets are a bit old; all the new ones lightnings typhoons won't be delivered until later this year and next)

they've got quite a lot of air defense too yada yada



we're really straying and considering something less likely than the USA not vetoing any UN action against Israel :P

I don't think it has to do much with technology as the quality of the pilots. I know in Israel pilots are the cream of the crop of the entire country. My buddy almost became one. He got hand picked after graduating high school because of his scores on standardized testing done in the 12th grade. He also has a soldier profile of 100 percent. That means that physically, emotionally, psychologically, hes as close as it gets to a perfect human being. He almost finished the course but got cut at the end. I'm sure if he joined any other airforce he would have been the top gun.

[Graeme S]

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

[BaoXu]

Don't mess with Israel

reasons being

1) God's on their side
2) They have nuclear weapons.

[tool001]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

history? in this case, depends on from where you are looking at it..

[belka]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

OK, how about this:

Those of you who have an interest in this (minus all the "these guys do this" and "those guys did that") give a brief summary of the history of Israel/Palestine as you see it, from the creation of the dual states until now?

I know there's plenty of bitterness, but how about we talk about the whole history rather than just recent rocket attacks and all that?

1800 years after baby jesus died, everyone in that area known as the land of Palestine, NOT country, lived in peace. They composed of 85% Muslims, 10% Christians and the rest Jews. An extreme minority of the Jewish population - Zionists, decided to colonize this land to eventually create a Jewish homeland. With more and more Jews coming into that area the locals - Muslims, got upset so violence broke out. More and more Jews settled in that area after the whole holocaust thing and Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries. More violence and killing.

In 1947, the UN decided to intervene and that's where shit hit the fan. Rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

The Arabs declared war and promised to "push the Jews into the sea".

1947-1949 war. Basically, Israel conquered 78% of the Palestinian land resulting in 750k refugees.

1967 "Six day war". Israel conquered more land - the remaining 22% of Palestine (Gaza and West Bank), parts of Egypt - since returned and parts of Syria.

We come to today. Palestinians still think they have a "right of return" to what was once their land and to what belongs to Israel now.

Don't mess with Israel

reasons being

1) The US is on their side.
2) They have nuclear weapons.

Fixed.

[m!chael]

That's pretty accurate cliffs lol
Just a side note, the land that they allocated to the Arabs was basically the best and most arable land. If you check out pictures of the west bank, for reals, it's a beautiful area. So green and nice. On the other hand, most of Israel is a fucking desert, and the agricultural land we have right now took a lot of work to create.

[van_driver]

I really hate arguing over the internet because I really believe actions speak louder then words so i'm not going to rip apart your entire post. But this part really pissed me off.

Originally Posted by belka

1800 years after baby jesus died, everyone in that area known as the land of Palestine, NOT country, lived in peace. They composed of 85% Muslims, 10% Christians and the rest Jews. An extreme minority of the Jewish population - Zionists, decided to colonize this land to eventually create a Jewish homeland. With more and more Jews coming into that area the locals - Muslims, got upset so violence broke out. More and more Jews settled in that area after the whole holocaust thing and Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries. More violence and killing.

You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that. You really think all the muslims were like "fuck this, theres too many jews here, lets start killing 'em"? That's like saying, one day the locals of vancouver - the whites, got upset that there were too many asians so violence broke out.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by van_driver

I really hate arguing over the internet because I really believe actions speak louder then words so i'm not going to rip apart your entire post. But this part really pissed me off.




You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that. You really think all the muslims were like "fuck this, theres too many jews here, lets start killing 'em"? That's like saying, one day the locals of vancouver - the whites, got upset that there were too many asians so violence broke out.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

well chinatown riots is a good example.

[vitaminG]

People are fucking stupid, Isreal and Turkey will never fight a war. Turkey is a NATO member. The NATO charter states that an attack on any NATO member is considered to be an attack on all. Turkey has nukes on its soil through NATO. So there is basically ZERO CHANCE of there ever being a war between the two countries.

[StylinRed]

"People were tied up and left bound for 25 hours he said. They were not gentle with they way that they tied his hands. Other people had it much worse; he saw some savage beatings at the hands of Israeli soldiers."

Kevin Neish that victoria resident who was aboard the ships
http://www.news1130.com/news/local/a...ned-in-israrel

he's just been released and in Turkey atm

[belka]

Originally Posted by van_driver

You make all muslims look like barbarians by saying that.

I didn't not say that, if that's how you see it then fine. The muslims or palestinians in that area chose to act with violence and start fighting and got their asses handed to them in a few decades and lost pretty much everything. I'm not saying they started everything and I don't know who fired the first shot nor does it matter now. What I do know now is that the palestinians will NEVER get their own freedom until they elect someone into government that isn't a recognized terrorist organization by pretty much every country in the world. Time for them to wake up to reality or face another 50 years in squalor and poverty. The future is in their hands, it is they who need to grow the fuck up.

Put down the crack and grow the fuck up. Step back for a second, put yourself in their shoes (Israelis and Palestinians) and think again.

Been there, done that, that country was not for me. Have you lived in either of those area's? If not, shut the fuck up. You have no idea what's its like to live there so your arguments are moot.

[Ferra]

Originally Posted by m!chael

I don't think it has to do much with technology as the quality of the pilots. I know in Israel pilots are the cream of the crop of the entire country. My buddy almost became one. He got hand picked after graduating high school because of his scores on standardized testing done in the 12th grade. He also has a soldier profile of 100 percent. That means that physically, emotionally, psychologically, hes as close as it gets to a perfect human being. He almost finished the course but got cut at the end. I'm sure if he joined any other airforce he would have been the top gun.

Number of soliders, military readiness, weapons arsenal, intelligence & logistic..etc, etc
none of these things matter when 2 nuclear armed countries go to war..neither side will ever win. The losing side will simply unleash their entire stockpile of nuke...they won't even need an ICBM in this case since they are right next to each other.

[StylinRed]

YouTube

[Levitron]

YouTube

[gdoh]

you know what i don't get is how this is supposed to be an aid ship yet when the military come aboard the ppl on board the aid ship start attacking the military. normally if you are doing nothing wrong o have nothing to hide you dont start to attack the military and expect them not to shoot you or fight back. i think there is more to this then we know

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by gdoh

you know what i don't get is how this is supposed to be an aid ship yet when the military come aboard the ppl on board the aid ship start attacking the military. normally if you are doing nothing wrong o have nothing to hide you dont start to attack the military and expect them not to shoot you or fight back. i think there is more to this then we know

so you're saying if you're on a ship with a bunch of buddies and people board your ship without permission or you knowing that you wouldn't fight back?

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Ch28

so you're saying if you're on a ship with a bunch of buddies and people board your ship without permission or you knowing that you wouldn't fight back?

If they have guns, of course I wouldn't fight back...

[gdoh]

they come on with guns and are trained to kill i would prolly not wana test them

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by gdoh

they come on with guns and are trained to kill i would prolly not wana test them

it's the middle east

they're OG like that.

[Valour]

I think they need to hand out fizzy bubbly-pop to everyone... and a litre of hummus.