HST: Going to Cost us more.

[Gt-R R34]

*updated list on first posting that HST affects.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Milhouse

More people will buy groceries and stuff over the border, since after July 1st, no tax for Canadians in Washington.

Unless you live in White Rock, Aldergrove, or some other community within walking distance of the border, how cost effective is it to buy your groceries and other household basics across the border? When you factor in your time, dealing with border guards who are not necessarily pleasant, and gas, is it really worth saving a buck on a jug of milk?

And cross-border shopping for other goods, like electronics, luxury clothing, etc. is going to happen anyway regardless of the HST.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

There's a LOT of places where as a province we can cut costs and save more then we will make with the additional cash grabs from the HST and that will make the province run more efficently as a whole.

You're confusing very different issues.

The HST is revenue neutral, and the Atlantic provinces actually lost tax revenue after switching. The HST is not meant to be an additional cash grab.

The HST has nothing to do with making the province more efficient, nor program cuts. That's a different topic. Remember - revenue neutral and in practice, revenue lost.

The HST is meant to make BC business more competitive against places where business is not taxed. As you pointed out, this province is being turned into a tourism/service economy as industry leaves to tax-advantaged areas. The HST is meant to help bring industry here as BC becomes tax-advantaged.

The HST will do something you've commented on in this thread: reduce government spending. They are laying off PST employees as now we don't need a provincial and federal office to administer taxes separately.

Originally Posted by tool001

so the general idea is business will pass on the saving?
how many fucking times u see businesses reduce cost.
gas prices went up 2 years ago.. prices for everything shot up, price of gas went down, did price for services -retail go back down... no..

businesses never reduce cost.

How old are you?

Did you live through the GST being implemented all all these same arguments being made? Studies showed business did pass on the savings, cause consumer spending was in the toilet cause if you remember - we were in a recession then.

Realistically we're still in a recession in Canada, since GDP gains have been driven almost entirely by housing which has been subsidized to bring sales forward. Unemployment has not dropped significantly, and what drops there were can be attributed to part time employment eroding the quality of employment.

Look around at the deals still to get consumers spending. If sales drop off a cliff due to the HST, business will cut prices further. It happened before, it'll happen again.

[Tapioca]

I think most people get the fact that the tax is revenue-neutral. The problem is that many see this tax as a "tax shift" from the average joe to big businesses.

Then again, most people work for businesses of some sort, so the savings are going to be held by someone. The key is to either realize those savings in the form of capital investments (new computers, new staff, etc.), salary raises, or to put it bluntly, become a business owner yourself.

[the_law82]

Originally Posted by taylor192

You're confusing very different issues.

The HST is revenue neutral, and the Atlantic provinces actually lost tax revenue after switching. The HST is not meant to be an additional cash grab.

The HST has nothing to do with making the province more efficient, nor program cuts. That's a different topic. Remember - revenue neutral and in practice, revenue lost.

The HST is meant to make BC business more competitive against places where business is not taxed. As you pointed out, this province is being turned into a tourism/service economy as industry leaves to tax-advantaged areas. The HST is meant to help bring industry here as BC becomes tax-advantaged.

The HST will do something you've commented on in this thread: reduce government spending. They are laying off PST employees as now we don't need a provincial and federal office to administer taxes separately.

Just to back up some of what taylor192 has said, here's the report that the Fraser Institute published on Monday.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ions/7364.aspx

The report highlights that the average family will actually pay less tax if the income is <$80,000. However, I only skimmed the report and don't know what they determine as the "average" family.

I am a strong believer that the businesses will pass down the savings but as some people have already pointed out, the businesses will only do so if consumers make the decisions to spend less, thus driving businesses to lower prices. With all this hype, I strongly believe people's spending patterns will change to saving more and businesses will have no choice but to pass on the savings to encourage spending again.

Considering that the HST is supposed to be revenue neutral, I just hope the federal government incentive is being put to good use. My biggest gripe with government is their inefficiency, some of the points which have been covered already (ie. duplication of services).

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

Taylor the $198 is for childcare alone. That's not even getting into school supplies, activities for the fall & clothing. It is the biggest chunk of it but the $20 here, $30 there will adds up quick for the rest. It's not fear mongering. That's the reality that those of us who buget ahead deal with now. And those of us who don't will just be suprised with later.

Any how I was using myself mostly as an example of how this is going to impact most BC families more then it was my intention to bitch about my personal costs.

I like examples, and you're making for a very good one. I don't consider it bitching, yet I do not like big numbers thrown around to scare people.

$198 for child care leaves $300 to get to your "I will spend $500 by Sept on my one kid". That's > $3000 spent on clothes, school supplies, ...

Oh wait - that's not even correct cause child clothing is still exempt: http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/wp-content...T_List_v04.pdf

Thus its not going to cost you $500 more by Sept unless you're spending a lot - then you can afford to pay your fair share.

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I think most people get the fact that the tax is revenue-neutral. The problem is that many see this tax as a "tax shift" from the average joe to big businesses.

Then again, most people work for businesses of some sort, so the savings are going to be held by someone.

A business owner I met in Utah when my car broke down said something very profound:

My business pays $0 tax, my customers pay it, they just don't see it.

The problem with his statement is when dealing out of province or internationally. The customers just see higher uncompetitive prices and decide not to buy.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2010/0...ail-sales.html

Coles: retail down 2% with no sign of improving.
Tip: look up deals on RedFlagDeals.com before buying anything as retailers will need to offer incentives.

[Ducdesmo]

Originally Posted by the_law82

Just to back up some of what taylor192 has said, here's the report that the Fraser Institute published on Monday.

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/resea...ions/7364.aspx

The report highlights that the average family will actually pay less tax if the income is <$80,000. However, I only skimmed the report and don't know what they determine as the "average" family.

LOL Fraser Institute. More like right wing institute...nothing short of a shill for the liberal government..

[q0192837465]

People should start surfing smartcanucks.com religiously. Use the time u spend driving down to the States or going to Church to study that site and u'll save more shopping locally.

[Milhouse]

Originally Posted by Gt-R R34

*updated list on first posting that HST affects.

That's a HUGE list. Gasoline should be there somewhere.
Why not say that EVERYTHING will be taxed in BC?
Maybe you will see people at the night market start to charge tax.
HST is GAY.

[Graeme S]

Taylor, please be more concise. I just had to go through and merge a fuckton of your posts. If you want to rebut multiple people, open quotes in new tables and copy/paste your responses. Don't take up more room than you have to.