Until the 19 year old forgets to take her birth control pill one day or the condom breaks and then you have to worry about stability, money and baby crap eh?

Sorry boys you can't play Peter Pan forever. Age catches up to everyone.

^plan B ftw

fml

I agree with this generally, but where do you draw the line? In the OP's scenarios, the second guy (4.5 years) seemed to have a pretty reasonable level of ambition. Most of us know that we're expected to change jobs several times through our professional careers and this may result in transition periods working "Joe jobs" to pay the rent while one waits for the next thing.

On the other hand, a guy that works too hard is sometimes seen unfavourably as well. Not too mention the time he needs for hobbies, sports, etc.

yes and until that day happens, i will fight tooth and nail to hold off growing up

obviously WE (guys) are not the ones drawing the line. Girls can do whatever they want.

Honestly though, I know tons of girls who do actually set an age they want to start having kids. Research shows that if you have your first kid before you're 30, you reduce the chance of Down Syndrome quite a bit.


as well - Money - I don't think has everything to do with it. If you're very successful, but just going out all the time, and not saving up to settle down, you will usually attract a different type of girl.

^This is an increasingly big issue too as women are putting their child bearing off later and later. Not only are they (and the men with them) risking having down syndrome babies but also a plethora of other complications for baby AND mother and that is if their fertility is not hindered by their age (fertility takes a rather steep decline in the mid thirties/early 40s).

Even further then that, women who delay having kids are at far greater risks of many cancers (especially breast and ovarian cancers). Women who don't have kids at all are at further increased chance.

I think men tend to not relate to that given you guys are fairly fertile pretty much all your lives. Girls have a window though they have to shoot for.

Men get upset when their SO is more successful than they are and makes more money than they do. It's a known fact.
In order to make an average income that can support even just a family of two, own a home, a car, and not be living from paycheck to paycheck the man needs to have the motivation, ability and desire to do so. Of course it would be a combined effort from both parties. But just merely thinking they want to become a dentist, accountant, lawyer... and whatnot won't be enough to convince their SO or potential partner that it's going to happen. Especially if the man's already in their late 20s or early 30s.

Less talk, more action.


On the other hand,
Women prefer to have a dependable and stable man whom they can rely on when they are going through the period where they can't exactly work to raise kids; but at the same time you can't call them gold diggers because especially nowadays, majority of women are striving for a good education to have a good paying career of their own and trying to become more independent.

Love is one thing, but if the man doesn't seem capable of earning an income to even cover his own expenses, let alone his family's, that can be a major turn off for women and usually make them look the other way.

Women aren't 100% materialistic, but having a partner who is capable of earning a reasonable income is a fairly important factor when it comes to settling down.

interesting. do you have a source re: down syndrome after 30 years?

something brief is ok...

^ it is a pretty well known fact that the risk of down syndrome increases significantly after the age of 30.

Here's a litttle chart off a paper
http://biomedme.com/wp-content/uploa...n-syndrome.png


That's how the Western culture works. People often say to themselves that they are not wrong if they want more. Everything is about ME ME ME. It is then only natural that they leave their men if their desires are not fulfilled. To them, there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting more because there's simply nothing wrong about it, or so they think.

is this true? so if you don't have kids early, you're totally screwed whether you wanna have em in the future or not?

The last several posts have confirmed this: biology has not caught up to society. More precisely, I mean that that the limited window of a woman's reproductive system has not taken into account the fact that people are living longer and are not therefore obliged to make life decisions as quickly.

That's the thing, unless there's some major scientific break thru, the optimal time for reproduction will still remain at late teens & early 20s regardless of how long u'r gonna live. With today's food, I'm suspecting that this time frame has been moved even earlier. Therefore, that decision has to be made whether u like it or not. That's the rule for being a human.

Yes. Going through pregnancy and nursing just once decreases your chances of having breast cancer by about 20%. Doing it younger, before you become vulnerable to breast cancer in the first place is an important part of the equation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12133652 is an article that goes on about how lowered birthrates and even lower breastfeeding rates seem to be a big contributing factor to reduced breast cancer rates.

Malcolm Gladwell did a really good and engaging article on how birth control also could but isn't used properly to decrease these risks and explains how even having a 9 month reprieve from the regular cycle provides protection against feminine cancers.


Frequency of downs by mother's age:

http://www.ds-health.com/risk.htm

At 30 you're 1/900, by 40 you're 1/100 chances and that's for only downs. You fall into "High Risk" at 37.

That doesn't look at any of the other disorders related to maternal age. Not to mention risks of hypertension and prenatal diabetes are higher as maternal age increases, which often results in the mother having to take early mat leave and in some cases even means complete bed rest.

You must be joking. If you're thinking of raising a family (1 or more child) in Vancouver on 70k gross income, good luck. Other than the bare essentials, you'll be lucky if you could get your kid(s) through college without them being in loads of debt.

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/FAMIL21A-eng.htm
Average income (after tax) for a Canadian family with two earners is already 85k in 2008. And being in Vancouver, you'll probably expect it to be higher.

I didn't read all the responses, but the thread title here seems to be misleading. 'Running out of patience' after dating for 5 years and entering your 30s is not even close to 'breaking off because guys don't make enough'.

Do the guys expect the girls to wait until they're 35 to get married? What if the guy says cya at 34? It's much easier for him to find another younger girl, then for the girl at 35 to start from scratch.

I commend the girls for making the hard decision, and breaking it off so that they can start a relationship that might lead somewhere.

My fiancee says that girls are like Christmas trees.. 20, not bad, 22, still good. 24, you're pushing it.. 26, too late :P
Of course she says it in jest, but it still has elements of truth.

LOL u know tons and tons of immgrant from china. inda......... made it through with min wage. Lot's of time are able to get an apartment in say 4 to 5years after they came to Vancouver and is able to afford a house in the next 10years. Simply they save and save and save and don't spend. Sure is a crappy life but is doable.

So if you aren't a big spender having 70k family income is fine. Sure you won't get to say go on a trip every year, won't be able to afford brand names but you can live a decnetly.

My dad makes 13.hr and my mom makes 9.50.hour they are able to affrod a 650k house paid off, have 2 cars (recently just got an acura). Still have money left over for their life insurance, food, expensive........ They simply spent every little. Unless is something they really need they don't buy. So 70k is fine in Vancouver assuming you are good with your money.

I would suggest you check out the child poverty stats for BC. Also you should be leary of averages, as the outliers in the upper end of the scale skew things considerably.

You'll find over 1/3 of families with children in this province live on half if not less of that national average. You know what? People make do.

You can raise a kid on much less then $85K/year. Most people do.

The only thing I don't agree was with danz's post. Just cause a guy doesn't marry a girl after 2.5 yr is probably because the girl ain't worth it. I absolutely do NOT agree with this. Marriage isn't everything and damn, it's FREAKIN expensive. No guy with a broke ass would ask a girl to get married. Not only would the girl be like. WTF, you're buying me a 1/2 carat ring when all my friends got me a 1.5 carat.

Mr.HappySilp: I'm very glad your mom and dad works hard and have a lot of things paid for. There is something that DOES NOT add up. You mom and dad pulls in $ 22.50 / hr which is about 45 K a year, I'm going to be super nice and assume they earn 50K. Do you know 50k income would BARELY get you a 200k mortgage? Even with a decent 10-20k down payment, they can afford an apartment of 1000 sq ft in Richmond that's 25+ years old. I must be missing something here.

Long story short, if a girl DUMPS you cause he's too poor, you know what, just let it be. You were never good enough for her to start with cause you know what, she got SUCKED into the society of all the LV, pradas etc. You're never ever be rich enough for her and she'll get married in 10 years and then find out she married for the money and her husband is cheating giving her herpes.

If the girl is not a good digger, then either you're a loser for not having any ambition or she's found something better.

^^ if u do want to know the full story.

We came to Canada around 1990 when they came over they had barely 10k. Live with my grandparents for a few years and got a house in Coq for about 290k. Sold the house for about 350k and got the 650k house about10years ago. Paid the house off in about 4 to 5years I think so that means they paid 300k in that time. So about 65k a year. They rented the basement suite for $800 a month. My and my sister both paid rent so that's a total of $1300 from rent.My sister and I would help here and there if possible. 15.6K So yes in those times when they are paying off the house they barely had any money left. We rarely go out for dinner or go shopping but we made it.

I still remember the time when our water pipe was busted and it cost $1200 to fix and my dad had to borrow money from my sister and I to fix it. Must be really embarrass for him to ask his kids for money. We didn't really care though.

I started working at 16 same with my sister coz we didn't get any allowance. We weren't given a car when we got our liscense. We didn't have any education funds for us when we go to university. I do think that's actually good for us since we learn money is hard to come by.

Anyways my parents still works. We are actually doing really decent. I might not have the best job in the world but I do get off pretty well. To be honest a lot of times I see girls shopping with their bfs making them buy this and that or that or paid for them is just..... errrrrr. There are a lot of things I bought that I don't need but I bought it coz I just want it. I recently bought a ton of games for my PSP which I haven't even touch it, bought a new laptop when my desktop is fine and still good and lot's of clothes......... I think a lot of times people over spend of stuff they don't need so they need bigger income to live off. So then we have these reports that is pretty inaccurate.

On topic. I think sometimes it also depends how long the guy have been in this Country. Say you can't really expect a guy that just came to Canada to make 80k+. That's just not possible. Also if the guys is changing career he is going to make less coz he is starting over. That's why I am still single and still remain single for a long long long time.

$70K/Year for a family income will not cut in 2010 and beyond if thinking of purchasing a home because it costs an arm and leg for a home in Vancouver now. If you roll back say 10-15years with $70K/year salary, easily a family would be able to buy a home.

Back on track. The Op is like what, late 20's and hitting 30 in some time? I don't think anyone should expect him to be making crazy money because, even if you were smart and had a good job, you can really only make so much at his age. As time goes on and more work experience is gained, his salary would potentially increase depending on what he does. Because most of us probably finished school around 24 and only worked a few years if they plan to get married by 30. Nobody should be expecting someone with only a few years of work experience to be bringing home big money like people with many years of experience working in the field, because obviously the more experience you have the more pay you'll be receiving due to job salary increase.

^^ or be a drug dealer! Fresh out of HS and making 100k a year =D

And the average Vancouver/Burnaby home costs $700k (and rising)??

Why are you guys talking about house prices here?

I bet half of all rs'ers grew up in a family unit where a house was not purchased and they were raised perfectly fine.

Having a small condo or even renting is not the deal breaker.

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If only girls think this way lol. Girls these days wants their bf to either have a 700k house or have 1m condo in downtown. And is able to spoil everyday letting buy whatever they want.