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The thin line between love and hate
Mature discussion about understanding the opposite sex...

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Old 11-18-2010, 11:20 AM   #76
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1) It IS hard to get a job that's 100K. If you are a nurse with over time, engineers, ibanking, 100k is NOT an issue. Heck, you might even make it before you're 30, but if you do NOT have a specialized skill set, earning 100k is hard.

Assume you finished your University at 21, you have 9 years to either CLIMB the corporate ladder (which is rare in Vancouver due to demographics and the amount of 'big' corporate companies.
Simple question, ask yourself, how many of your friends work at Telus, Bell, Ebay, SAP (aka business objects), Sofos actually worked there for 10 years let alone became a manager.

2) 80K income is comfortable.
80k single income with apartment and a car, you are probably breaking even. 80K income would get you a mortgage 300K which translates to an older apartment (that's assuming you have been saving since you were a fetus for a down payment. If you insists on traveling on vacation + a car.. yup, 80k means you're barely breaking even.

3) 100k income for girls.
I am unsure but I've dated a few girls but it's extremely rare for a girl to earn an 80k income. Nurses are probably one of the few with good income due to overtime and all but if someone can chime in who knows any semi-ambitious girls who are earning a decent income, I would love it hear it.

If you're earning 100k for a guy, of course it would be great to find a chick with 80K, but it's usually not the case.

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Old 11-18-2010, 11:55 AM   #77
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it's not only about how much you earn... it's what you do with it.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:28 PM   #78
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it's not only about how much you earn... it's what you do with it.
TOTALLY. I have friends who make two and three times what I do, have fewer obligations (no children to feed and such) and have MORE debt and less free cash then I do. Which often boggles the mind.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:39 PM   #79
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2) 80K income is comfortable.
80k single income with apartment and a car, you are probably breaking even. 80K income would get you a mortgage 300K which translates to an older apartment (that's assuming you have been saving since you were a fetus for a down payment. If you insists on traveling on vacation + a car.. yup, 80k means you're barely breaking even.
With a salary of 80K, getting into the real estate market today is tough without some sort of loan/help from family. However, no one says that you have to buy as you could easily rent something half-decent in a near suburb like Burnaby or Richmond and invest the rest. Or, if you're making 80K now, you would have been making say 40-50K 6-8 years ago and could have gotten in the market then and rode the wave (I know people who did this and ended up with multiple properties.)

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3) 100k income for girls.
I am unsure but I've dated a few girls but it's extremely rare for a girl to earn an 80k income. Nurses are probably one of the few with good income due to overtime and all but if someone can chime in who knows any semi-ambitious girls who are earning a decent income, I would love it hear it.
Health care is a woman's meal ticket. I know of several people in various health care professions and I'm fairly certain they're banking 70-80K (if Facebook albums, condos, etc. are an accurate barometer.) A colleague of mine who's a little over 30 happens to be in the Vancouver Sun's database of public sector high income earners.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:26 PM   #80
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it's not only about how much you earn... it's what you do with it.
doesn't matter you make 30K or 80K a year, you can't get away from the basic like mortgage, rent, food, bills, family and stuff. Unless you are single and live with your parents, then that's another story. You can live like king even making $8 an hr.
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Old 11-18-2010, 02:43 PM   #81
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doesn't matter you make 30K or 80K a year, you can't get away from the basic like mortgage, rent, food, bills, family and stuff. Unless you are single and live with your parents, then that's another story. You can live like king even making $8 an hr.
mortgage/rent would be fixed, but most other bills are variable. its just a matter of how much some people are willing to sacrifice. Everyone has different priorities.
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Old 11-18-2010, 04:48 PM   #82
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doesn't matter you make 30K or 80K a year, you can't get away from the basic like mortgage, rent, food, bills, family and stuff. Unless you are single and live with your parents, then that's another story. You can live like king even making $8 an hr.

mortgage - i pay for a 1 bedroom apartment. if i got a 3 bedroom, i'd be barely scraping by. of course it would be nice to have 2 more bedrooms. do i NEED it? no.

food - totally flexible. look at what you buy and how you prepare your meals. do you buy lunch everyday? how often do you go out for dinner? do you look for specials at the grocery store? do you use coupons? buy in bulk? end up throwing away leftovers?

bills - do you NEED a $80 cell phone bill? do you NEED a smartphone so you can browse the internet and play games when you're waiting in line for something? do you NEED all the fancy channels you get with a $100 cable package?

other examples (my friend, lol)
- do you NEED to drive to work everyday and pay $20 for parking? i think it takes her 20 minute to drive to work. taking the bus takes her about 35 minutes. sure, it's almost double the amount of time, but half an hour isn't very long.
- do you NEED to buy another new shirt/sweater/dress/jeans/shoes/purse??



seriously that saying...a penny saved is a penny earned... it's so true.

what's the point if you find a guy/girl who makes $100K if they waste it on unnecessary things?
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:03 PM   #83
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TOTALLY. I have friends who make two and three times what I do, have fewer obligations (no children to feed and such) and have MORE debt and less free cash then I do. Which often boggles the mind.
my best friend often gets on my case about my saving money (resulting, from her point of view, of me not having "life experiences")

she is in debt with student loans and credit cards and has no plan to pay off her debt (she only pays what she has to as far as i know)

she just doesn't get that there are a lot of things that aren't worth my time or money and i'd rather save my money for the future (never know when you'll need money!)

she can't save money unless she has a real goal (like she is planning a vacation, then she'll be able to save)

i see saving money as having peace of mind in case something happens (like i lose my job or an unexpected expense comes up). if i die early and have a big bank account, there will be no regrets on how i lived my life. (like how people say what's the point of saving all that money if you don't spend it)

she makes more money than i do but owes more and spends more. no savings, no rrsp, no property.

------------------------------
my advice for you single guys and gals...

find somebody who has the same mindset as you when it comes to HOW TO MANAGE finances. the way people save/spend money....causes major conflict in relationships. this is speaking from experience and based on observations of friend's relationships. and isn't money the main reason for divorce?
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:57 PM   #84
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i see saving money as having peace of mind in case something happens (like i lose my job or an unexpected expense comes up). if i die early and have a big bank account, there will be no regrets on how i lived my life. (like how people say what's the point of saving all that money if you don't spend it)

------------------------------
my advice for you single guys and gals...

find somebody who has the same mindset as you when it comes to HOW TO MANAGE finances. the way people save/spend money....causes major conflict in relationships. this is speaking from experience and based on observations of friend's relationships. and isn't money the main reason for divorce?
Oh so very true! But i want to add to your advice, or change it up a bit, find someone that you are compatible with in financial mindsets. You dont need to find someone that has the exact same mindset, just someone that is willing to "give and take" with you. (just a thought :P) seen many couples with a complete opposite money view, but still turn out to be very successful and happy.

Very true with op. I'm in my early 20's and the dating scene around my age group is generally based off of the "bling and personality" one has. The majority of girls just go for the guy that knows how to treat them right, as in buying them things, doing sweet lil things for them, all those cutesy bf/gf things that high school kids do.
But since my age range in friends is quite diverse, i've managed to observe the older, mid to late 20's girl that are slowly transitioning into the security as priority, good husband type of guys, or guys that has a goal or future. In general a guy that shows potential in make money or is making a lot of money beacuse money is security to them, and girls want security... well don't we all ><

so back to Conan, ya I do the exact same thing, I save and save, and spend on what i need and not want. Having a big fluffy cushion is better then hitting the cement. :P
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:33 AM   #85
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my best friend often gets on my case about my saving money (resulting, from her point of view, of me not having "life experiences")

she is in debt with student loans and credit cards and has no plan to pay off her debt (she only pays what she has to as far as i know)
This certainly corroborates anecdotes I've heard from my dad's friends whose daughters have amassed massive levels of high interest debt (credit cards.)

But, if you look at it, you can see why people nowadays have "spend now" mentality - you can always take debt to the grave.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:07 AM   #86
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That's it. Gotta find a girlfriend that's a nurse or health-care related, so I don't date some random girl that will just milk me dry on my hard earned money in the future. At least we'll be on the same page in terms of income status, not some bitch that'll just complain about not making enough income etc.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:38 AM   #87
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But, if you look at it, you can see why people nowadays have "spend now" mentality - you can always take debt to the grave.
Agreed. It's the "now culture" today. No one wants to wait for anything anymore. Words like sacrifice seem foreign to a lot of friends I know they all live for today.
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Old 11-19-2010, 07:20 AM   #88
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Agreed. It's the "now culture" today. No one wants to wait for anything anymore. Words like sacrifice seem foreign to a lot of friends I know they all live for today.
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yeah exactly. in my example above of my friend... she doesn't feel she should have to sacrifice and by sacrifice she means lose 30 min sleep, have to walk to the bus stop, get crammed like sardines on the bus. of course it's not an ideal situation but that's where the sacrifice comes in. (bby to van)

she can't even save for a vacation unless she knows it will happen within a small time frame, like "we'll go in the spring" or "winter". saying "sometime next year" is too vague for her. i try to convince her that she could put the vacation money towards her debt but that doesn't work. convincing her to save for rrsp is so far fetched. (we are nearing 30)

someone above mentioned finding someone who will be willing to compromise. i know couples who try but it doesn't work. it's a CONSTANT source of arguments. if the person was genuinely willing to compromise that's great but i think 99% of the time it will fail. from what i've observed, the way a person manages their finances is their way of life. it's very difficult to change somebody's mindset. sure everybody knows saving money is a good thing, but that's as far as it goes for a lot of people.

-------------------
when you're dating somebody, you can easily observe how they spend money. if you are both big spenders, great. if you are both savers, great. but if one is a big spender and one is a saver, think about how you will try to convince the other to compromise to meet you in the middle, or maybe even meet more on the saving side of things. think about how you would feel if you were with your gf/bf/wife/husband, broke and could not afford your way of life anymore... no cell phone, no driving, no eating out, no shopping... will you still be happy? will you be happy without buying "stuff"? think of the stress levels. the constant arguing with your SO.

if i met somebody who had credit card debt... it would be a serious turn off. i see it as being irresponsible. (assuming 99% of credit card debt is for unnecessary things)

p.s. don't settle for someone just cuz you're lonely.

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Old 11-19-2010, 07:49 AM   #89
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Keep in mind that the guys you mentioned are lucky. They should count their blessings of being single as opposed being with women who are there mainly for the money.

No decent woman will break up with a man JUST because of lack of money. There must be other issues. And if it was JUST financial decision, than both dudes were "dating" hookers that were out of their price range.

Woman / girls want stability, that is true, but the time when a man was the sole provider and the woman stayed home to babysit and cook/clean has long passed.

Seriously, congratulate both of your friends and tell them that there are plenty of great, sexy, smart, terrific and not money hungry women in Vancouver.



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Discuss.

Thought I'd start this thread because basically this happened to 2 of my friends (both guys) in the last month alone. One couple was 2.5 years, the other was 4.5 years. Both came out of NOWHERE. And no, my friends are not gangsta wannabes or uneducated bums, but they're definitely not doctors or lawyers. I'd peg them both as "average working class". It really did shake my world as I have been joking all year about who's getting engaged/hitched next, and suddenly Bam this happens.

In both cases above, the girl "ran out of patience" with the guy. One guy rents a place but lives on his own. The other one is in the lineup for the Mechanics program at BCIT but that doesn't start until 2011, so he's just working side jobs here and there. In case 1, my understanding is that the girl was asking my friend why he didn't buy a place yet, and when they can get married etc. Well actually, I heard something along those lines for Guy #2 too.

In my early 20s, the girls always just went for the guy who was more "cool" with the flashier cars or whatever, but now that many of my friends are approaching their 30s (if not there already), oh wow there has been quite a shift in the mentality of the girls they're dating.

I was just chatting with 1 of those friends, and he mentioned that after he recovers, he's only going for younger girls. Says there's too much pressure, especially when he's in the middle of a career transition.

Just seeing what your thoughts/inputs are, or if you have a story to share. And no, I'm not Joe45.
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:02 AM   #90
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lets be realistic here... bread and butter is essential for relationship ...
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Old 11-19-2010, 09:11 AM   #91
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yeah exactly. in my example above of my friend... she doesn't feel she should have to sacrifice and by sacrifice she means lose 30 min sleep, have to walk to the bus stop, get crammed like sardines on the bus. of course it's not an ideal situation but that's where the sacrifice comes in. (bby to van)

she can't even save for a vacation unless she knows it will happen within a small time frame, like "we'll go in the spring" or "winter". saying "sometime next year" is too vague for her. i try to convince her that she could put the vacation money towards her debt but that doesn't work. convincing her to save for rrsp is so far fetched. (we are nearing 30)

someone above mentioned finding someone who will be willing to compromise. i know couples who try but it doesn't work. it's a CONSTANT source of arguments. if the person was genuinely willing to compromise that's great but i think 99% of the time it will fail. from what i've observed, the way a person manages their finances is their way of life. it's very difficult to change somebody's mindset. sure everybody knows saving money is a good thing, but that's as far as it goes for a lot of people.

-------------------
when you're dating somebody, you can easily observe how they spend money. if you are both big spenders, great. if you are both savers, great. but if one is a big spender and one is a saver, think about how you will try to convince the other to compromise to meet you in the middle, or maybe even meet more on the saving side of things. think about how you would feel if you were with your gf/bf/wife/husband, broke and could not afford your way of life anymore... no cell phone, no driving, no eating out, no shopping... will you still be happy? will you be happy without buying "stuff"? think of the stress levels. the constant arguing with your SO.

if i met somebody who had credit card debt... it would be a serious turn off. i see it as being irresponsible. (assuming 99% of credit card debt is for unnecessary things)

p.s. don't settle for someone just cuz you're lonely.
I am a saver mind lol. Too cheap to even buy breakfast even when I am hungry but then if I had a gf I would be fine spending all kinds of money on her >< which is bad.
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:22 AM   #92
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before I got married, a good bud of mine gave me 2 great pieces of advice;

"If she doesn't spend all your money or cheats on you...she's a keeper" - so true, think about all the arguements you ever had with a gf.....

If it floats, flys, or fucks.....you are better off renting.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:30 PM   #93
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To me it's not a matter of making how much income but the participation in the relationship financially.

I hate it when people count every penny of what they spend on eachother or how some girls EXPECT gifts. WTF. Money should be spent on priority items, like household items if you live together or take turns paying for meals.

Doesn't matter if the girl is making $8/hr and the guy is making $40/hr or vice versa. Know your limit, play within it, use within it.

Don't be dumb, quite being too stingy or throw out your whole life savings just to get your bf John Lobb shoes or buy your gf a LV purse.

My boyfriend and I never get into arguments about money. One of us will pay for the bill when it comes to shopping or eating out. When we travel one of us will do the accommodations, the other will do gas or food or however it ends up working out, but usually we pay around the same thing. We don't really talk about it, we just do it. Cuz in the end we know it all eventually works itself out and it diminishes any awkward moments or fights. Having said all that we gage it, if I know he's been spending a lot on certain things or could be tight on money I'll make sure to pay a bit more. If one of us is making more than the other, we do our share.
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Old 11-19-2010, 01:47 PM   #94
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Discuss.

Thought I'd start this thread because basically this happened to 2 of my friends (both guys) in the last month alone. One couple was 2.5 years, the other was 4.5 years. Both came out of NOWHERE. And no, my friends are not gangsta wannabes or uneducated bums, but they're definitely not doctors or lawyers. I'd peg them both as "average working class". It really did shake my world as I have been joking all year about who's getting engaged/hitched next, and suddenly Bam this happens.

In both cases above, the girl "ran out of patience" with the guy. One guy rents a place but lives on his own. The other one is in the lineup for the Mechanics program at BCIT but that doesn't start until 2011, so he's just working side jobs here and there. In case 1, my understanding is that the girl was asking my friend why he didn't buy a place yet, and when they can get married etc. Well actually, I heard something along those lines for Guy #2 too.

In my early 20s, the girls always just went for the guy who was more "cool" with the flashier cars or whatever, but now that many of my friends are approaching their 30s (if not there already), oh wow there has been quite a shift in the mentality of the girls they're dating.

I was just chatting with 1 of those friends, and he mentioned that after he recovers, he's only going for younger girls. Says there's too much pressure, especially when he's in the middle of a career transition.

Just seeing what your thoughts/inputs are, or if you have a story to share. And no, I'm not Joe45.

I'm sorry for your buddies but take a look at it from the perspective of the girl. I can understand that they want some sort of security, not necessarily financially, but knowing that the guy will be there for the long run (ie marriage and having someone for the rest of their lives).

I'm not sure how old your friends' girlfriends are but I'm assuming they're in their mid 20 or higher so and they're going into another stage in life. You say that in the early 20s girls were into flashier cars and that was it and now girls that are nearing 30s want some sort of marriage and I don't see that as being abnormal at all.

Needs change along with wants when it comes to people growing. You can't expect to have girls being satisfied with playboys who drive a fancy car all their life. I noticed my own habits and interests have changed dramatically from the time when I was 20 and 5 years later I'm looking at saving for a house and no longer lusting for flashy cars and modding them. Just a few days ago I came across a post from some guy who "lost his passion" for his ITR and is selling it. People couldn't believe that he lost it. It's all a part of growing up and maturing.

The girl friends who left are probably at a stage in life where they want to start a family of their own and seeing that one of the couples had a guy that's still waiting in line for a mechanics program, the girl who left him probably has too many uncertainties on whether this guy can start a family with her within the timeframe that she would like to be married and have kids.

I doubt many girls would want to get married for the first time at 35 and start having kids at 40. From the way you describe the situation, it seems much less of a gold digger problem and more of two guys who aren't commited enough to pop the question. If these two girls were gold diggers and saw no potential to gouge money out of the two guys, they wouldn't have stayed for 2.5 years or 4.5 years respectively.

I'm sure on the surface it may seem like it came out of nowhere but I have no doubts that she had "the marriage talk" on more than one occasion and it really doesn't matter if the guy rents and lives alone or if he owns a house or lives with his family. If he's showing that he's not in the same mindset as the girl to get ready to settle down, then there's a huge conflict of interest and that's a huge deciding factor for her. She isn't gonna wait for him to come to his senses because she's not getting any younger.

Your other friend who is waiting to get into his program who is nearing 30 if not already, who knows when he'll be ready for marriage? That's the uncertainty that a girl is not willing to gamble with. Other uncertainties is what if he meets someone else?

Marriage is really dependent on which stage of life you're at. Two peoples' personality can be a perfect match for each other but inevitably if one is not ready to get married and the other is, then it most likely won't work.

While finances are relevant to the topic at hand, I don't think that was the issue that these girls had with the guys.
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:36 PM   #95
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Doesn't matter if the girl is making $8/hr and the guy is making $40/hr or vice versa. Know your limit, play within it, use within it.
How do you do the math when it comes to paying off a mortgage or bills in above senario?

50/50 or pull out a calculator making it a perfect ratio? What if the guy has already paid off the mortgage by himself, does that mean he should let his SO pay all the bills? Either way, someone will eventually complain about it's being unfair. From time to time, I hear my asian friends complain about their gf/wife don't contribute much and still get blamed for not able to make more $$$. Oh trust me, they all act it's not a big deal in front of their gf/wife.

Don't lie, all guys has shitty feeling about paying more most of the time. They will eventually bring that shit up in a fight or just quit.




Like I said earlier, I find it comfortable when my girl makes as much as I do.
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Old 11-19-2010, 08:26 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by asian_XL View Post
How do you do the math when it comes to paying off a mortgage or bills in above senario?

50/50 or pull out a calculator making it a perfect ratio? What if the guy has already paid off the mortgage by himself, does that mean he should let his SO pay all the bills? Either way, someone will eventually complain about it's being unfair. From time to time, I hear my asian friends complain about their gf/wife don't contribute much and still get blamed for not able to make more $$$. Oh trust me, they all act it's not a big deal in front of their gf/wife.

Don't lie, all guys has shitty feeling about paying more most of the time. They will eventually bring that shit up in a fight or just quit.




Like I said earlier, I find it comfortable when my girl makes as much as I do.
Well lets be real here, you go into a relationship and into a commitment knowing certain things. If your SO doesn't have any post secondary education or is one of those people that just don't work or is a professional student, you have to understand there's nothing you can do to change that fact so you either leave them or you find ways around them. It's not like they can suddenly make a fortune. That's just the reality of it. What I find is that there are girls breaking up with their boyfriends not for the fact that the reality is that a combined income will sustain their living standards, but more the fact that they are greedy bitches and want the rich husband who would pamper the shit out of them.

As for mortgage and bills, I don't see how it's so hard to make it work if both parties take the others expenditures into consideration. Join accounts and pre-nups are also a great thing for that problem
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:56 AM   #97
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What I find hilarious is that there are actually women out there that think they deserve a man that has a fat wallet and will pamper them like theyre goddesses.

What is it that they have to offer to their men? Ive always thought relationships/marriages are two way streets

Just a random thought..
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:43 PM   #98
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Yes. Going through pregnancy and nursing just once decreases your chances of having breast cancer by about 20%. Doing it younger, before you become vulnerable to breast cancer in the first place is an important part of the equation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12133652 is an article that goes on about how lowered birthrates and even lower breastfeeding rates seem to be a big contributing factor to reduced breast cancer rates.

Malcolm Gladwell did a really good and engaging article on how birth control also could but isn't used properly to decrease these risks and explains how even having a 9 month reprieve from the regular cycle provides protection against feminine cancers.


Frequency of downs by mother's age:

http://www.ds-health.com/risk.htm

At 30 you're 1/900, by 40 you're 1/100 chances and that's for only downs. You fall into "High Risk" at 37.

That doesn't look at any of the other disorders related to maternal age. Not to mention risks of hypertension and prenatal diabetes are higher as maternal age increases, which often results in the mother having to take early mat leave and in some cases even means complete bed rest.
God I hate when people throw out random relative risk reduction numbers. When you say 20% reduction you really mean probably less than half a percent absolute risk reduction. Your baseline risk of getting breast cancer is probably under 2% and 20% reduction in that is only 0.4%.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:37 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by !Yaminashi View Post
What I find hilarious is that there are actually women out there that think they deserve a man that has a fat wallet and will pamper them like theyre goddesses.

What is it that they have to offer to their men? Ive always thought relationships/marriages are two way streets

Just a random thought..
Sex, or the prospect of getting it, makes the world go around.
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Old 11-21-2010, 03:57 AM   #100
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Sex, or the prospect of getting it, makes the world go around.
I was about to say the same thing lol, but men still do all the work! girls just lie down and moan
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