REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Police Forum

Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-25-2010, 09:37 AM   #1
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Speeding too fast for conditions

So, the snow has been falling and ICBC, Police, etc.. are all telling us to drive slowly. (No mention of leaving extra space between you and the vehicle ahead of you).

The police warn that you can be ticketed for driving too fast for conditions even if you are travelling at speeds below the posted limit.

Section 144 1(c) states:
A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions.

So - what exactly does an officer have to present in court to prove that you were in fact speeding too fast for the conditions?
Advertisement
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:24 AM   #2
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 857
Thanked 1,067 Times in 228 Posts
i guess they might give you a ticket if they deem you can't stop safely without skidding, or you are traveling fast enough to swerve in the snow? just a guess
Shorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:27 AM   #3
Rider
 
gdoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Thanked 2,078 Times in 530 Posts
use common sense
gdoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:34 AM   #4
Pull Out Towing. Women rescued for free.
 
SumAznGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hongcouver
Posts: 7,486
Thanked 1,879 Times in 994 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdoh View Post
use common sense
I don't think that would hold up in court.
__________________
Originally posted by Iceman_19 you should have tried to touch his penis. that really throws them off.
Originally posted by The7even SumAznGuy > Billboa
Originally posted by 1990TSI SumAznGuy> Internet > tinytrix
(11-0-0) Buy/Sell rating
Christine
Shitvic
Pull Out Towing
SumAznGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:42 AM   #5
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,827
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
probably officer's discretion. he probably doesnt WANT to pull you over and walk back and forth between cars on the snowy, slippery, cold and dangerous roads... but he will if you are driving dangerously.
__________________
you show me a room with a hot woman in it and i'll show you a room full of guys willing to put up with her bullshit.

-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6793026 View Post
she's a whore. you're a loser.
in the garage:
'05 Dodge Ram 2500
'06 BMW 530i
'08 Chevy Equinox LT
the_rickster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:56 AM   #6
The RS Freebie guru
 
InvisibleSoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Vancouver
Posts: 22,029
Thanked 2,489 Times in 859 Posts
But it's a slippery slope if it's solely based on the discretion of the officer, isn't it?

What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver? He should have a better understanding of what he can and cannot handle in the snow than the officer, right? So if he disputes the ticket, who would the judge side with?
InvisibleSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 11:02 AM   #7
Ricer Mod
 
Berzerker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Smithers
Posts: 6,665
Thanked 4,675 Times in 1,352 Posts
It comes down to you losing control of your vehicle. If you slide to a stop at an intersection and go past the control line... your going to fast for conditions. If you turn a corner and understeer or oversteer and cause a hazard... your driving to fast for conditions. Your car might be an Imprezza on Snow's and the car beside you could be a mustang on summers and you could be going twice as fast as him in the snow but HE will get a ticked when he slides/spins/fails to stop even if he is going 10km/hr.
This also might be cause for a driving without due care and attention if your found to be driving with a vehicle that unsafe for conditions.

Again it IS officer discretion but you have to DO something to warrant the ticket ie. something unsafe in the eyes of the officer.

Berz out.
__________________
President of RS Beat Down Crew
Berzerker is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 11-25-2010, 11:02 AM   #8
Rider
 
gdoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,269
Thanked 2,078 Times in 530 Posts
your odds of wining in court aren't very good if the cop believes that you were driving in an unsafe manor then your most likely screwed they just want people to drive with caution and understand that you cant drive how you normally would dont put yourself in that situation were you could get a ticket and youll be fine
gdoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 11:35 AM   #9
HELP ME PLS!!!
 
johny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: here
Posts: 5,793
Thanked 146 Times in 67 Posts
unless you crash I don't see this ticket being given out. if you're between the lines and in control, you're not going to fast for conditions.
johny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 12:39 PM   #10
Retired Traffic Cop
 
skidmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Nanoose Bay, BC
Posts: 9,023
Thanked 115 Times in 66 Posts
The circumstances of driving must have a speed component and enough other elements to convince the JP that the vehicle was being driven at a speed above what a reasonable and prudent person would choose for the conditions present at the time of driving. If that can be related, the JP can choose to convict.
__________________
Have you ever met anyone that would admit to being less than a better than average driver ??

Learn more at DriveSmartBC
skidmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 01:34 PM   #11
Pull Out Towing. Women rescued for free.
 
SumAznGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hongcouver
Posts: 7,486
Thanked 1,879 Times in 994 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdoh View Post
your odds of wining in court aren't very good if the cop believes that you were driving in an unsafe manor then your most likely screwed they just want people to drive with caution and understand that you cant drive how you normally would dont put yourself in that situation were you could get a ticket and youll be fine
Is that how our legal system works? Based on heresay and what the wind blows in?
__________________
Originally posted by Iceman_19 you should have tried to touch his penis. that really throws them off.
Originally posted by The7even SumAznGuy > Billboa
Originally posted by 1990TSI SumAznGuy> Internet > tinytrix
(11-0-0) Buy/Sell rating
Christine
Shitvic
Pull Out Towing
SumAznGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2010, 10:02 PM   #12
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver
Posts: 827
Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
So today I was going to work. I drive a small FWD coupe. i have 4 fresh snow tyres.

I clear the little bridge on fell Ave (By the Northshore automall), at about 20k, then slow down to 10K to make the right turn. My front tyres meet some ice/uneven dense snow patch, and I understeer and continue to go straight. So Am I driving too fast for conditions?
BallPeenHammer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 12:01 AM   #13
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
jlenko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 3,562
Thanked 330 Times in 163 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul View Post
What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver?
I would think a professional rally driver would respect the fact that he's on public roads, and wouldn't drive like a punk-ass kid who thinks they're a rally driver.

But that's just me..
__________________
Don't be the next RS.net statistic - If you drink, don't drive. You'll lose your licence, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
jlenko is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 11-26-2010, 12:44 AM   #14
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,886
Thanked 5,052 Times in 1,656 Posts
I don't see any problems with this law being enforced, I wish more officers were out giving tickets for speed excessive to conditions. If your car slips a bit occasionally thats normal, but if your driving at speeds where you at risk of losing complete control, your a risk to the motorists around you.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 03:27 AM   #15
I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
 
Nightwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Van Isle
Posts: 7,653
Thanked 443 Times in 188 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul View Post
But it's a slippery slope
BAHAHAHA
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinHurricane View Post
who would ban me? lol. Look at my post count.
Nightwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 03:50 AM   #16
Need to Seek Professional Help
 
geeknerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,055
Thanked 388 Times in 166 Posts
when the officer is driving behind you to pull u over. just break really hard and hope that he bumps into you.
geeknerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 05:23 AM   #17
Revscene.net has a homepage?!
 
moomooCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,227
Thanked 153 Times in 52 Posts
^ hahahah interesting idea, I suppose at that point, he can't claim that you're over driving your tires / the conditions if you're able to stop faster than he can.
moomooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 09:39 AM   #18
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,827
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul View Post
What if the person who received the ticket is a highly experienced professional rally driver?
pffft, trick question. everyone knows that highly experienced rally drivers live on yachts in the winter.
__________________
you show me a room with a hot woman in it and i'll show you a room full of guys willing to put up with her bullshit.

-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6793026 View Post
she's a whore. you're a loser.
in the garage:
'05 Dodge Ram 2500
'06 BMW 530i
'08 Chevy Equinox LT
the_rickster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 01:41 PM   #19
The RS Freebie guru
 
InvisibleSoul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: East Vancouver
Posts: 22,029
Thanked 2,489 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenko View Post
I would think a professional rally driver would respect the fact that he's on public roads, and wouldn't drive like a punk-ass kid who thinks they're a rally driver.

But that's just me..
But the argument here is that he doesn't even need to be driving like a rally driver to get a ticket for speeding too fast for conditions.

Maybe this rally driver is fully confident that he has full control of his vehicle driving at 50kmph down the snow road, but the officer arbitrarily believes that anything above 40kmph is too fast for the conditions.

Then what?
InvisibleSoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #20
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,886
Thanked 5,052 Times in 1,656 Posts
I'm heading to Timmy Ho's to find a cop and ask what qualifies a driver for a speeding too fast for conditions ticket, this has me curious now.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 01:47 AM   #21
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver
Posts: 827
Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
I'm heading to Timmy Ho's to find a cop and ask what qualifies a driver for a speeding too fast for conditions ticket, this has me curious now.
Don't forget the BP at 3rd and Westminster in Richmond.
BallPeenHammer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 02:34 PM   #22
RS Peace Officer
 
zulutango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver Islan
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 1,623 Times in 678 Posts
"My front tyres meet some ice/uneven dense snow patch, and I understeer and continue to go straight. So Am I driving too fast for conditions? "

144 (1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway


(c) at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions

By your own definition, you were...if you had been going slower you would not have lost control in the scenario you just described. If you had hit another vehicle or pedestrian because you were skidding and not turning would you be asking this question? The section definition is "speed relative to conditions"....not excessive speed *( plus 40 or 60 k over the limit) , speed against hwy sign, speed in a municiplaity....relative to the conditions that existed..an uneven dense snow patch, you were going so fast that you admit you lost control.
zulutango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 02:41 PM   #23
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
So basically for a "speed too fast for conditions" charge to hold up, there has to be a collision or other incident where the car was going too fast to remain under control.

By the sounds of it, there is very little chance that such a charge would hold up if the officer simply handed out the ticket to a driver travelling at less than the posted speed limit in the same way he would hand out a conventional speeding ticket.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 02:49 PM   #24
Pull Out Towing. Women rescued for free.
 
SumAznGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Hongcouver
Posts: 7,486
Thanked 1,879 Times in 994 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
So basically for a "speed too fast for conditions" charge to hold up, there has to be a collision or other incident where the car was going too fast to remain under control.

By the sounds of it, there is very little chance that such a charge would hold up if the officer simply handed out the ticket to a driver travelling at less than the posted speed limit in the same way he would hand out a conventional speeding ticket.
If you put it that way, a conventional speeding ticket has proof either by radar, pacing, or visual estimation by a trained officer.

In this case, a ticket for too fast for condition for someone going the speed limit can still hold in court. Driver could be paced, radar'd or visual estimates point out the driver was going the speed limit, but is too fast for conditions with conditions being snow, white out, fog, heavy rain (logically speaking)
__________________
Originally posted by Iceman_19 you should have tried to touch his penis. that really throws them off.
Originally posted by The7even SumAznGuy > Billboa
Originally posted by 1990TSI SumAznGuy> Internet > tinytrix
(11-0-0) Buy/Sell rating
Christine
Shitvic
Pull Out Towing
SumAznGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2010, 03:05 PM   #25
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SumAznGuy View Post
In this case, a ticket for too fast for condition for someone going the speed limit can still hold in court. Driver could be paced, radar'd or visual estimates point out the driver was going the speed limit, but is too fast for conditions with conditions being snow, white out, fog, heavy rain (logically speaking)
Right, but you're only "going too fast" if you're unable to stop, steer, or hit something due to the conditions.

To flag someone over and ticket them for speeding too fast for conditions when they're simply driving 40 in a 50 zone without proof that their actions will result in a collision.. I don't see how that can stick.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net