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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 01-12-2011, 04:13 AM   #26
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If you are incapable of executing a left turn without getting into accident or feel like being an inconsiderate prick, do what the OP says.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:54 AM   #27
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At 0:35 in the video, or 12:26:30 on the dashboard cam time, you can see that the light has turned red when the cam car begins his turn, you can also see, that at the time the light turns red, the Van is just entering the intersection, therefore it is clearly running a red light.

This is not a case of entering the intersection during a yellow, the Van driver was not even 25% of the way into the intersection before the light was red.

One could argue that the cam vehicle driver, felt that the red light was an indication that it was practical to make a left hand turn, as it should provided a safety from through traffic who obey it. Thus satisfying the safety/hazard check requirement of the law.

Honestly, if this was BC, I would anticipate that the cam vehicle driver should be assessed at 0% fault, or at least a very low amount.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:15 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bainne View Post
At 0:35 in the video, or 12:26:30 on the dashboard cam time, you can see that the light has turned red when the cam car begins his turn, you can also see, that at the time the light turns red, the Van is just entering the intersection, therefore it is clearly running a red light.

This is not a case of entering the intersection during a yellow, the Van driver was not even 25% of the way into the intersection before the light was red.

One could argue that the cam vehicle driver, felt that the red light was an indication that it was practical to make a left hand turn, as it should provided a safety from through traffic who obey it. Thus satisfying the safety/hazard check requirement of the law.

Honestly, if this was BC, I would anticipate that the cam vehicle driver should be assessed at 0% fault, or at least a very low amount.

Actually, if you pause it at 34 sec, you could see that the yellow light was still on when the Van entered the intersection.

Even if the van driver had run a red light - the Cam driver should have waited till he had a clear view before turning.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by impactX View Post
If you are incapable of executing a left turn without getting into accident or feel like being an inconsiderate prick, get off the road
^Fixed

If you are worry about someone running a red and hitting you, then you should stop crossing any intersections altogether.

and if everyone does what OP does, traffic would've come to a halt...(as if it is not bad enough already...lol)
there is nothing wrong with being the 2nd car to enter the intersection on a left turn lane...you just have to proceed with cautions.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:25 AM   #30
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Actually, if you pause it at 34 sec, you could see that the yellow light was still on when the Van entered the intersection.

Even if the van driver had run a red light - the Cam driver should have waited till he had a clear view before turning.
exactly... the van had the right of way in this case. the van was already in the intersection and stopped in time so he wouldnt hit the infinity. the cam car then has to give the van the right of way to CLEAR the intersection. the cam car is at fault in this accident
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:40 AM   #31
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still lol'ing at "good thing i have a camera system"
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:07 AM   #32
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exactly... the van had the right of way in this case. the van was already in the intersection and stopped in time so he wouldnt hit the infinity. the cam car then has to give the van the right of way to CLEAR the intersection. the cam car is at fault in this accident
Since when does a yellow light mean you have the right of way in an intersection?

A yellow light means STOP, unless it is unsafe to do so.

"the driver of a vehicle approaching the intersection and facing the yellow light must cause it to stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, before entering the intersection, unless the stop cannot be made in safety…"

The yellow light ticked on at 12:26:26, we see the van rolling over the crosswalk at 12:26:29 during a very late stage amber light.


Noriega v. Lewars, 2008 BCSC 1405

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Who has the statutory right-of-way is informative; however, it does not determine liability in an accident. Drivers with the statutory right-of-way must still exercise caution to avoid accidents where possible. In Walker v. Brownlee, [1952] 2 D.L.R. 450, Cartwright J. states at paras. 46-47:

[46] The duty of a driver having the statutory right-of-way has been discussed in many cases. In my opinion it is stated briefly and accurately in the following passage in the judgment of Aylesworth J.A., concurred in by Robertson C.J.O., in Woodward v. Harris, [1951] O.W.N. 221 at p. 223: "Authority is not required in support of the principle that a driver entering an intersection, even although he has the right of way, is bound to act so as to avoid a collision if reasonable care on his part will prevent it. To put it another way: he ought not to exercise his right of way if the circumstances are such that the result of his so doing will be a collision which he reasonably should have foreseen and avoided."
I expect that this case (cam vs van) would come down to whether or not the plaintiff would be able to prove that the defendant (van driver) did not exercise due diligence in avoiding an accident - such as anticipating left turning vehicles and slowing down/stopping for a yellow light.



BC Case law pertaining to a similar accident. I am sure there are many of these scenarios, each interpreted different by different judges and based on different extenuating circumstances.

The honest fact of the matter is, this really could go either way.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/Jdb-txt/...08BCSC1405.htm

There are many other reasons for the Judge finding for the plantiff, but within the findings the Judge states:

Quote:
I find that the defendant did not enter the intersection at the beginning of the amber light. The defendant, who was in a hurry, entered the intersection when it was not safe for him to do so, on a very late stage amber or red light. He should have stopped.
Therefore, according to this particular case, entering an intersection during a late stage amber light is likely to be considered unsafe.
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Old 01-12-2011, 11:11 AM   #33
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ya except the van was already in the intersection when the cam car began it's turn. the van had to clear the intersection therefore he had the right of way. had the van hit the black infinity, the van would have been at fault.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:23 PM   #34
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^its almost never the vehicle that is going straight that is at fault. Its always the job of the vehicle turning to make sure its safe to do so. If the white van hit the black infiniti it would be the black infinitis fault
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:39 PM   #35
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I did a quick search on this topic on my web site. You may wish to browse both the column on the topic and the case law for an in depth understanding. Most drivers do not have adequate knowledge of this topic.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #36
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I get frustrated when cars don't go out far enough into the intersection depending on which one. My commute home always has me turning left on E 1st Ave Northbound onto Renfrew. If anybody knows that intersection they will know the due to the length and design of that intersection you can easily fit 2 full cars waiting to turn left and a 3rd car over the white lines without any problems at all. It drives me crazy when the first car is a complete noob.

As for the video the guy with the camera is an idiot for assuming that just b/c the first car turned left when the light was changing that it was clear and he should just follow. Whenever I'm the second car turning left I always have a slight delay when the first car is turning left b/c I still have to ensure it's safe for me.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:30 PM   #37
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If you are incapable of executing a left turn without getting into accident or feel like being an inconsiderate prick, do what the OP says.
Why not just call me an inconsiderate prick then?
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:47 PM   #38
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Why not just call me an inconsiderate prick then?
in general, or because of the whole left turn thing?
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:51 PM   #39
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Why not just call me an inconsiderate prick then?
Because personal attacks are against the rules?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gars View Post
in general, or because of the whole left turn thing?


Seriously... congrats on your opening post, we're all very proud of your inimitable ability to stay within the law and still be a complete self-righteous douche by showing no consideration for the other drivers on the road. It's a really unique skill.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:04 PM   #40
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the 2nd car shouldn't cross the line as he's entering a non clear intersection and could be ticketed for that. however if only one person turned every light traffic would be a nightmare and it's generlly ignored.

all 3 of thoese people failed and helped create the crash, but the cam guy is at fault for the crash for turning when not clear
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