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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 01-11-2011, 04:04 PM   #1
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Left turns (video)

Do you ever get frustrated when the driver of the car in front of you refuses to enter the intersection until the car in front of him has completed his left turn?

I frequently get honked at from behind when I don't enter the intersection or move far enough forward.

If I am waiting to make a left turn, I wait no further than the white line separating the crosswalk and road. I will only advance forward when the cars lining up on my left for the red light have come to a stop. This way I can reduce my chance for being hit on the left side of my car by someone running the red. Also if an emergency vehicle needs to get through I am not blocking the way by sitting in the middle of the intersection.

If there is a car in front of me, I won't enter the intersection as I don't want to 1) put pressure on that driver to make an unsafe turn and 2) be stuck in the intersection myself making a rushed turn when the light changes.

I have had cars behind me honk for me to move forward into the intersection when there is a car already waiting in front of me to make the turn. I've also had cars honk at me for coming to a full stop before proceeding to make a right turn on a red.

Here's a video I found on another forum showing why it is unsafe to enter the intersection until the car in front of you has turned. The driver's view was obstructed and he likely panicked about being stuck in the intersection on a red.

Warning, contains swearing:

I wish the police would enforce left turn safety more.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:32 PM   #2
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From what I've been told - police don't mind it if people enter the intersection to do a left turn - especially if the intersection is very long. It allows for more cars to turn at the red light, and just allows the flow of traffic to go smoother. Traffic would go a lot slower, especially during rush hour - if only 1 car turned left every single light. If somebody was behind me while I'm turning left, I don't feel pressured at all. I go when it's safe to go.

As for turning when it's safe (while being the second car), of course your view is obstructed - but your view being the front car can be equally obstructed. If there isn't a dedicated left turn lane - and a car going the opposite direction is turning left - your view is just as obstructed. You just have to proceed when it's safe.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:06 PM   #3
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The guy in the video is a total retard.
at the end of the video "he was suppose to let me go, thankfully i have a camera system"
in my opinion the white honda had the right to go straight because the light was yellow and he was already going at least 40km, whereas the douchebag with the camera should of stopped and had no reason to turn left.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:39 PM   #4
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I would have waited until it was clear or stayed since it was changing red when he was turning. Who cares if the person behind you is honking you. They're being too aggressive imo. I'd just turn around and give them a smile
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:01 PM   #5
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In that video i see all 3 cars just failing there. The Black Infiniti making an unsafe left turn just barely missing the White Oddessy, the Oddessy to me somewat ran a light there, and the driver of the video making a bad turn there aswell.

To the topic in hand, to add to wat gars said i dont feel any pressure at all and other cars shouldnt either. If u dont enter the intersection, ur not putting urself into a position to make that turn. The car infront will make the turn then ur gonna have to enter the intersection, stop, creep to the left, then make the turn opposed to just creeping to the left and making the turn. I just feel like the cars behind me are just putting themselves into a position to make the left turn when the light goes yellow so 2-3 cars can turn instead of 1 or even none.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:56 PM   #6
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its not illegal for you to be in the intersection waiting to turn left. in fact, thats what you're supposed to do. i always get frustrated when people stop at the white line and then turn, right before the light turns red. that allows only one car to turn left, instead of two or three. theres absolutely no reason why you cant sit in the intersection waiting until the light goes yellow and the oncoming traffic stops, or there is a break in traffic. you have the right of way after the light goes red since you have to clear the intersection, so if anyone hits you, they will be at fault
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:07 PM   #7
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Nobody said you can't wait in the intersection, but you shouldn't wait out in the middle of the intersection. It's one of the most dangerous places you can be.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
If I am waiting to make a left turn, I wait no further than the white line separating the crosswalk and road. I will only advance forward when the cars lining up on my left for the red light have come to a stop.

this is what im talking about. you're not supposed to stop at the white line, you need to be in the intersection
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #9
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this is what im talking about. you're not supposed to stop at the white line, you need to be in the intersection
Ok, there's three white lines running perpendicular to the left turn lane.

As you approach the intersection, the first line (line 1) is the stop line. In a left turn lane this is typically set back from the stop line on the thru-lanes.

The next line (line 2) marks the closest side of the crosswalk.

The line after that (line 3) marks the furthest side of the crosswalk, and acts as the dividing line between the crosswalk and the curb lane of the crossing traffic.

Let's assume that in order to complete your left turn you have to cross two lanes of traffic approaching from your left side.

Assuming that you have a green light (but not an arrow) you can advance forward from line 1 to line 3. Legally you can move even further forward, but why would you?

Instead, wait at line 3 until cars approaching from your left have stopped for their red light.

If you wait in the middle of the intersection to make your turn as you suggest I should do and someone in the curb or inside lane runs the light, you are going to get hit on the left side of your car.

Instead, wait at line 3 until the cars to your left have stopped, THEN move forward.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:39 PM   #10
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so you hold up everyone behind you from turning left because you're too scared of getting hit? what are the chances of someone running a red light? i agree in vancouver, they are pretty good, but if you're scared of getting into an accident that badly, then you shouldnt be driving at all
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:53 PM   #11
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so you hold up everyone behind you from turning left because you're too scared of getting hit? what are the chances of someone running a red light? i agree in vancouver, they are pretty good, but if you're scared of getting into an accident that badly, then you shouldnt be driving at all
Yes, I generally wait until I can be sure that the cars approaching from the left won't hit me.

9 times out of 10 they stop before there is a safe break in the oncoming traffic anyway, so really I am not holding anyone up.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:37 PM   #12
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EDIT: never mind, didn't see that the car was behind the white line.

The driver should have noticed the oncoming car , but must suck to be him
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:08 PM   #13
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'thankfully i have a camera system' lmfao yeah, too prove you were in the wrong jackass
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:51 PM   #14
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This video is retarded and proves nothing but the cam driver being dumb.

black infiniti was in the intersection and got orange so he was 'safe' to go.( shouldve waited for white car, u can tell he hesitated and braked but probbly calculated that it could result in crash so he stepped on it)
the white odyssey maybe shouldve stopped, but whatever he can go too.

the cam car shouldve waited till he got view of oncoming cars; thats his fucking mistake.

BUT contrary to the OP, if he was in the intersection when it was orange, he couldve let the white car pass and then complete the turn anyways because ur already in the intersection and he is unable to stop safely in it.

why stop at the white line when one more car can make the turn.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:57 PM   #15
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my driving instructor taught that it's actually a good idea to enter the intersection. That way - even if you hesitate, you can still carry on turning because you are IN the intersection. If you wait behind that 3rd line - and you hesitate before you turn - traffic going perpendicular won't see you being in the intersection and you can't turn.

I have never heard of anyone putting themselves into danger by entering the intersection for a left turn - as long as
a) you don't go out too far - you will block the left turners opposite you.
b) keep your car pointed straight and wheels straight forward - so that if you were to be rear ended, your car wouldn't end up going into oncoming traffic...

and that youtube video does nothing to prove your point Sebberry - if the driver can't see, he needs to wait till his view is unobstructed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:59 PM   #16
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You have good points, but that video doesn't help you at all....
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:04 PM   #17
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^ As buddy up there said.. nothing wrong with sitting in the middle of the intersection when STOPPED.

Keep in mind that by waiting outside the intersection, you now need more time to start + finish the L turn if there's a break in traffic, as you have more distance to cover. This becomes significant if we're talking about a major multi-lane intersection like Knight + 41. IMO that makes you MORE likely to cause a collision. Nobody ever said you had to COMPLETE the turn when your view is obstructed like that guy in the video, but you're really just holding up traffic if you don't proceed past the white lines. It also allows 1 or 2 more cars to go per light cycle.

Doesn't every driving school (as well as the ICBC handbook) out there teach you to enter and wait inside the intersection for a L turn?

Bottom line, the dash cam guy screwed up as he assumed the intersection was clear. No sympathy from me.

Last edited by slammer111; 01-11-2011 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gars View Post
my driving instructor taught that it's actually a good idea to enter the intersection. That way - even if you hesitate, you can still carry on turning because you are IN the intersection. If you wait behind that 3rd line - and you hesitate before you turn - traffic going perpendicular won't see you being in the intersection and you can't turn.

I have never heard of anyone putting themselves into danger by entering the intersection for a left turn - as long as
a) you don't go out too far - you will block the left turners opposite you.
b) keep your car pointed straight and wheels straight forward - so that if you were to be rear ended, your car wouldn't end up going into oncoming traffic...

and that youtube video does nothing to prove your point Sebberry - if the driver can't see, he needs to wait till his view is unobstructed.
I have no problem entering the intersection once the car in front is part way through making his turn and will be able to safely complete it.

If the car in front hesitates for any reason for a yellow light, there's a good chance you will now be forced to complete your turn while the light is red. Not the smartest thing.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:19 PM   #19
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Keep in mind that by waiting outside the intersection, you now need more time to start + finish the L turn if there's a break in traffic, as you have more distance to cover.
Minimal amount of time.
And if you're the first car in line waiting to make the turn, there's nothing wrong with waiting on top of the crosswalk. Too many things can go wrong if you wait in the middle of the intersection.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:20 PM   #20
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Minimal amount of time.
And if you're the first car in line waiting to make the turn, there's nothing wrong with waiting on top of the crosswalk. Too many things can go wrong if you wait in the middle of the intersection.
Don't forget you're at low speed when making the turn. If your average speed is 20km/h, that's just over 5m/s. At that speed, 1 car length adds around 0.8-1.5s. Most people don't accelerate that hard during L turns, so their average speeds are probably even less, meaning you will probably lean towards the 1.5s mark.

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Old 01-11-2011, 11:30 PM   #21
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So how is what I am suggesting dangerous?
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:37 PM   #22
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what you're suggesting isn't dangerous - but it definitely impedes traffic because you do not need to be so cautious.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:58 PM   #23
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I see this a few times and really hate it, the 1st car does not enter the intersection and just guns it when the light changes or creeps into the intersection so that maybe just the hood of his car is in the intersection, especially on a big intersection that can fit like 3 cars. You end up only having one car make the turn and in some cases, I've seen the person just not turn cause they were behind the crosswalk and just decided it was safer to just wait for the next light.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:03 AM   #24
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I see this a few times and really hate it, the 1st car does not enter the intersection and just guns it when the light changes or creeps into the intersection so that maybe just the hood of his car is in the intersection, especially on a big intersection that can fit like 3 cars. You end up only having one car make the turn and in some cases, I've seen the person just not turn cause they were behind the crosswalk and just decided it was safer to just wait for the next light.
Some people are so dumb they don't go. Then they also don't go for the next light. I've seen the same car hold up traffic for 3-5+ minutes because of this. And of course, they're blocking the crosswalk the whole time.

Quote:
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So how is what I am suggesting dangerous?
I would imagine that some people may underestimate the distance they need to cover to complete the turn, and therefore increase the risk of a head-on crash.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:03 AM   #25
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what ur saying is "i like going 40 at a 50 zone. going 50 or 40 are both legal, but going 50 when u can helps flow of traffic."
but if u dont feel safe dont do it, at the end of the day, how safe u feel while driving is most important.
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