Did you do this research yourself or did you get it from somewhere? It's pretty shoddy work.

Asian market? WTF. What was the North American economy doing between 1995-2000? When did it crash? What was it doing from 2002 to 2008? When did it crash? Who was doing what and when? The numbers you posted are pretty meaningless when you don't consider their performance relative to the economic conditions that out of their control.

It's easy to look good when you can ride the tech bubble but don't have to deal with the aftermath. Insinuating the NDP did a good job pre-2000 is insulting to those who had to live through their waste. Actually, I've heard your argument made before. It seems you copy and pasted it from ppl who like to lie.

I'm going to vote like everyone votes - for whoever puts more money in my pocket. People really only vote two ways - for who benefits them or for a specific party because they are staunch Libs or Cons and always vote that way regardless. People can cut the "I'm voting for a better Canada" crap. Better for whom? Oh yeah, better for them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GYlS...embedded#at=23

Semi Unrelated but I'm too lazy to make a thread.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/04/21/Si...%28The+Tyee%29

For who ever was looking for fact checking on the debate. I totally acknowledge that this is a pretty one sided article, it focuses on claims the other leaders made that Harper denied.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Layton moves to a statistical tie with the Liberals nationally.

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/po...service=mobile
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man.... the way things are going right now - the NDP might actually have more seats than the Liberals. If they end up doing a coalition - it would mean Jack Layton would be our next PM.

I think he's a great opposition leader, but PM...? I'm a little scared.

As it sits I'm unsure of who to vote for. I'm having a hell of a time deciding whose platform sucks the least.

For you people who don't support the Conservatives, here's "Scumbag Steve"
http://images.memegenerator.net/Scum...ven-Harper.jpg

Anyone else getting NDP ads on youtube? Kudos for them to pushing their message to the youth, but talk about randomnity.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/insi...ne-before.html

conservatives sure like ducking debates.

Right now the early estimates are 134 Conservatives (which means they lose a few), 77 Liberals (they gain a few), 60 NDP (they gain a LOT) and the rest to the Bloc (which means they lose about a quarter of their seats).

If they get that then the Libs and NDP won't need the Bloc's help to out vote the Cons. They won't have to make an official coalition really. The Cons on the other hand may have to (ironically) make a coalition with the Bloc to maintain control of the house.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1994856/

So then they would AGAIN try to overthrow the democratically elected government simply because they want the power? :rolleyes:

I don't think the vast majority of the populous understand what would happen to this country if the NDP got control of it. Think the current deficit is big? It will be economic suicide.

Please, keep failing me short-sighted voters.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Side bars briefly from the debate because I keep running into people who say "I don't want to support anyone so I won't vote" and aren't aware that there's another option so I feel the need to reiterate for those people who don't know who to vote for, who haven't been persuaded by pages and pages and pages and pages of arguements thus far.

PLEASE COME AND VOTE ON MONDAY, EVEN IF ITS FOR NO ONE.

If you don't know who to vote for, you can always scratch your vote (which means draw a line through it or drop it in blank). I know this sounds meaningless but the parties form their platforms based on voting demographics (age, gender, location). Historically persons over 50 have been the highest consistent voting demographic, and persons under 30 the lowest. This is why most parties have nothing to say that you feel is geared towards you and you can do something about it without feeling you're forced to support someone you don't agree with.

Even if you don't feel you have anyone you like, or you feel you know nothing about politics. PLEASE. Because if we all get off our asses for 5 minutes and do this on Monday the next election will look a lot different, the next election will actually address what's important to us.

/rant.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll go back to my old Harper sucks rant tomorrow, but hey, while we don't agree, I respect that you Tory supporters are at least going to cast a ballot, which is more than I can say, sadly, for a large portion of people.

The "democratically elected government" as people seem to be talking about it is a misnomer. I was reading the globe today and I saw a quote that struck me as really interesting. You'll forgive me for paraphrasing:

The government we elect need not be a majority in order to be in power, nor even the largest. While this is unusual in recent history, it is far from unusual in multi-party parliamentary democracies.
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I bet more Canadians will watch the Royal Wedding than vote. :(

Stop with the anti-coalition rhetoric. School yourself.

Read:

It seems the longer the election runs and the more the conservatives talk the less support they get. That's why they are always ducking questions, interviews and debates.

I sad when your own community (Nina Grewal ) or family (Wai Young) wouldn't support you.





http://thetyee.ca/News/2011/04/27/UjjalDosanjh/

Ujjal Dosanjh, Bravest MP in Canada

He stood against Sikh extremism. He was beaten, threatened with murder. Now a terrorist group founder openly backs his Conservative opponent.

By Crawford Kilian, Yesterday, TheTyee.ca

Ujjal Dosanjh

Liberal Dosanjh: Tight race with Tory Wai Young in Vancouver South.

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Unexpectedly, the 1985 Air India disaster has intruded into the 2011 federal election campaign in Vancouver South. The association of Ripudaman Singh Malik with the Conservative candidate Wai Young has brought her judgment and honesty into question. And it has made terrorism an issue in the election.

It has also brought back a bad time in the life of Young's Liberal opponent, Ujjal Dosanjh. To gain some perspective on the current controversy, The Tyee talked with Dosanjh in his campaign office on Tuesday, April 26.

As a young lawyer, Dosanjh said, he had begun speaking out in late 1984 against the more extreme voices in the Sikh community. In February 1985, he was attacked and beaten with a metal rod, and very nearly killed. It took 80 stitches to close the wounds in his head.

"But the physical pain wasn't as bad as the emotional pain," Dosanjh said. "I'd been trying to help people, to say 'Cool down.'"

Still worse was the emotional scarring the attack had inflicted on his children. Dosanjh recalled an incident when one of his sons was being bullied at school, but didn't want to talk to the teacher. "Stand up in class and talk about it," Dosanjh had said.

"Look where that got you," his son had replied.

Do the right thing and fear not

Speaking out may have been a family trait. Dosanjh talked about his grandfathers and other relatives who had struggled for India's independence, sometimes at the cost of their lives or of long prison terms. He mentioned a grandfather who had narrowly escaped arrest, and who had eventually settled in Canada. Dosanjh recalled walking his grandfather home one day and asking him if he'd ever been afraid.

No, the old man had said, citing an old belief that those protected by God can't be killed. Dosanjh took that to mean that if you are doing the right thing, you need not fear the consequences.

The extremists have long memories. Dosanjh mentioned an incident last year when some people had said publicly that he would not be welcome or safe at the 2010 Vaisakhi parade. Dosanjh (who hadn't been planning to attend) condemned that attitude; he then saw the appearance of two Facebook pages dedicated to discussing and funding his assassination.

Last week, the news broke that Wai Young had attended a meeting at Khalsa School, Vancouver which had also been attended by Ripudaman Singh Malik, acquitted in the Air India case but an acknowledged founder of the terrorist Babbar Khalsa movement and a financial supporter of the family of Inderjit Singh Reyat, the only person to be convicted in the case. Malik was now also a supporter of Wai Young's election campaign.

The vanishing candidate

The Young campaign promptly went into defensive mode. Young herself disappeared. A statement from the federal Conservatives appeared on her campaign website, rejecting Malik.

When The Tyee spoke on April 25 with Paul Lee, Young's media representative, he said the Khalsa School had invited her, "and being accommodating, she went. Had we known who was going to be there, we would have said no. She went to meet students, so she wasn't really stumping."

Lee went on: "She had no idea who Malik is. No one introduced her. Some parents showed up. There were speeches in Punjabi; I have no idea if they included endorsements. We have no tolerance for anything he stands for."

Asked about the Khalsa School meeting, Ujjal Dosanjh described it differently, citing a person who attended: "It took place at 3:30 in the afternoon. No students were there. It was teachers, staff and parents, and everyone was speaking English. She was endorsed and money was collected."

Moreover, both Dosanjh and Vancouver Sun reporter Kim Bolan have learned that Young had met Malik on April 2, just after the opening of her campaign office, in the home of a supporter. And Dosanjh also went public with allegations that the vice-president of the Vancouver South Conservative Association is an associate of Malik.

When The Tyee checked back with him, Lee said he had not attended the event at Khalsa School. But because Young had attended meetings with students at other schools, "I assumed they were all student meetings."

Checking over Wai Young

As for the April 2 meeting, Lee said: "I remember it well. I was there. About five of us carpooled to the home of a supporter. It was a house packed with Sikhs. We shook hands and got a warm reception, but no one introduced anyone by name. They wanted to hear her. She talked about the Conservative platform.

"Other people got up and spoke about the needs of the community, how Sikhs had supported the NDP when they were millworkers and then the Liberals when they became merchants, and now maybe it was time for a change again. They were checking her over. There was no mention of Mr. Malik whatsoever. They talked about contributions. If Mr. Malik was among the crowd, I didn't know it."

How, The Tyee asked, could Wai Young not know who Ripudaman Singh Malik is? She had grown up in Vancouver South, where Malik is extremely well known at least by reputation. And if she didn't know about him, surely someone on her riding association executive should have alerted her -- perhaps that associate of Malik's.

"I can't explain why she wasn't alerted," Lee said. He repeated that "We fully repudiate his endorsement." Asked if the campaign had returned any contributions made by Malik, he said a search for such contributions was under way.

Shock waves

Malik appears to be sending shock waves through the Lower Mainland political community: A Vancouver Sun report on April 26 said Mayor Gregor Robertson and several city councillors attended a Khalsa School event last year that Malik also attended, and that they took pains not to be photographed with him.

Also on the 26th, Kim Bolan reported that Malik said on a Punjabi radio program that he still supported Young and also backed two Liberal candidates: Sukh Dhaliwal in Newton-North Delta and Shinder Purewal in Surrey North.

Contacted by The Tyee, Purewal was surprised to hear of the endorsement. "I don't comment on other people's comments," he said. "I'm just focused on the campaign and seeking support from my constituents."

Dhaliwal's media person said: "The campaign has had no contact with Mr. Malik. His comments were unsolicited, and we found out about them only through the media. Sukh says the only endorsement we are seeking is the endorsement of Newton-North Delta voters on May 2."

Ujjal Dosanjh, at least, doesn't need to worry about such kiss-of-death support. His campaign signs, he told The Tyee, had suffered some routine damage. But since the Young/Malik story broke on April 22, the signs are being defaced. (A glance at his signs around East 49th and Fraser confirmed this.) "It's vicious," he said.

Not as vicious as an 80-stitch beating with a metal rod, but still a reminder that not everyone will be content with the results of a clean campaign and honest debate. To wage such a campaign, when you know some of your voters have contempt for parliamentary democracy, takes more courage than many politicians can find. [Tyee]

:sleepingzz:

The Conservative government is likely to win it's third election in a row - that means the people of Canada have confidence in them. We are what matter not the 308 MP's juggling for position and power. NewGirl's post made light of the fact that if the NDP and Liberals pull more seats away from the Bloc they could outvote any legislation the Conservatives put forward, or try to topple it again with a non-confidence vote. That's not rhetoric that's fact, and now there is talk of them merging before the election has even occured. In either scenario (coalition or merger) two-parties are sharing votes and taking control of a country when they individually did not stack up and were not elected to do so.

That's democratic if you believe math is more important than votes. Canadians do not want to vote AGAIN 12-18 months from now, and if the Conservatives do win this current election guess who fronts the $300+ million that was used to pay for something that may result in just a couple MP seats begin shuffled between parties? It comes out of OUR POCKETS!! Will that really serve Canadians?

If the Liberals and NDP truly believe in the policies they're peddling there won't be a coalition or a merger, they'll stick to their guns and fight for the voters that supported them in this election. Time will show their true colours.

No, the people of Canada NOT electing a parliamentary majority of Conservative affiliated MP's means that a majority of Canadian people DO NOT have confidence in the Conservatives forming an ruling government.

This depends on what you mean by win. If by win you mean "control a majority of parliament", that is incorrect. If by win you mean "control more seats than other parties" then you are correct.
Strictly speaking, a majority of canadians did not vote for the conservatives either. If you want to draw your line in the sand at "the most seats in parliament" I could just as easily draw it at "more than half of seats in parliament" and we could end up arguing the point forever. If a non-confidence vote in the standing government can be passed then it means a majority (meaning more than half of the current parliamentary politicians does not believe in the government's so-called mandate.
Votes are math, math is voting. As with what happened to the provincial NDP here, it is possible to have a huge chunk of votes (~30ish%) yet land a significant minority government. If you don't like the way that votes are weighed or governments can be formed, you should look into getting active in electoral reform.
I find it interesting you claim the NDP and libs should stick to their guns in order to "move government forward", yet if they had stuck to their platforms for the last few years, the conservatives would have fallen long ago. The Tories have been gently wooing support from all sides a little bit at a time all over this last electoral cycle--several tory supporters on this board have claimed that one reason they haven't been more fiscally successful is that they've had to bend over backwards to add things in for the NDP and Libs in order to pass confidence issues.


I understamd you support the Tories, but "having more than others" is not what makes a legal mandate. And just remember, more seats doesn't always mean more votes. Sometimes far and away from half.
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1: that longass article you posted that most people will say tl;dr to is from the Tyee. If you believe anything from that, you most likely believe everything from the national enquirer as well.

2: ujjal is the absolute LAST person i want in parliament. he got lucky last election, so now he's pulling out all the stops to try to keep his seat.

Remember when there were two right wing parties splitting the vote while the Liberals had back to back to back majorities? The Reform/Canadian Alliance party was stuck out west getting nowhere and managed to fool the long standing more federally represented Progressive Conservative party into merging into the Conservative party which to date is unable to form a majority. The Reform/Canadian Alliance was so hungry and desperate to acquire power that they absorbed the PC party in a move that puts our political system down a path of becoming a dysfunctional 2 party system which exists in the US. The only way for the left to form a government now is to follow the right's lead and merge. There are a number of socially progressive/fiscally conservative voters that now have no other option than to vote for the Republican-style Conservatives

FWIW I'm not a diehard Conservative supporter. I actually think some of the things they've done are shady and damaging, but at the moment they are the lesser of the evils. Politics are all give and take, so wooing other sides with concessions are necessary or nothing would ever happen. My comment was geared towards the Liberals and NDP forming a two-party coalition or merging to topple the Cons 'because they can'.

Unlike Young who is getting support from terrorists?