Court deems drug laws unconstitutional: pot *could* be legalized in 90 days

[woob]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ont...951/story.html

TORONTO — Ontario is one step closer to the legalization of marijuana after the Ontario Superior Court struck down two key parts of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act that prohibit the possession and production of pot.


The court declared the rules that govern medical marijuana access and the prohibitions laid out in Sections 4 and 7 of the act "constitutionally invalid and of no force and effect" on Monday, effectively paving the way for legalization.


If the government does not respond within 90 days with a successful delay or re-regulation of marijuana, the drug will be legal to possess and produce in Ontario, where the decision is binding.


The ruling stemmed from the constitutional challenge of Matthew Mernagh, a man who relies on medical marijuana to ease pain brought on by fibromyalgia, scoliosis, seizures and depression.


The Ontario Court of Appeal had previously recognized that to deprive someone with a serious illness of medical marijuana if it relieves their pain is a violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As a result of that, the federal government created the Marijuana Medical Access Regulations to let people legally get, possess and grow marijuana if they have a licence supported by a medical doctor.


Health Canada's medical marijuana program regulates and approves which growers patients can buy from and how much they're legally allowed to use for their treatment.


However, Justice Donald Taliano wrote in his decision on Monday that Mernagh — a well-known marijuana advocate who has been charged for possession and production of marijuana numerous times — has been unable to get a doctor to sign off on a medical marijuana licence.


"Doctors often have a great deal of difficulty with this and have in many cases blatantly outright refused to sign these forms," said Jacob Hunter, the policy director for the Vancouver-based Beyond Prohibition Foundation, which fights for the legalization of marijuana.


It has meant many Canadians waiting to be accepted into the medical marijuana program seek out medical marijuana without a licence, at times leading to possession and production-related arrests.


Mernagh's criminal charge is permanently stayed, Taliano wrote in his ruling, and he is granted a "personal exemption" to buy or produce marijuana during the 90 days given to the government in order to submit its challenge.


The decision is a huge win for legalization supporters and for medical marijuana patients.


"I think it represents a dramatic step forward for critically and chronically ill Canadians," B.C. lawyer and foundation executive director Kirk Tousaw said Tuesday night. "It is undoubtedly going to progress through the court system . . . but it's gratifying to see a court has accepted what so many thousand medical marijuana patients have been saying for years — that it's incredibly difficult if not impossible to access medical marijuana."


He compared the case to that of Henry Morgentaler, the abortion doctor and advocate whose constitutional win eventually led to the widespread legalization of abortion, one that "became legal without any real regulatory scheme surrounding it," Tousaw said.


Anti-drug action groups and others against the legalization of marijuana have said legalizing marijuana could lead to widespread use and increase crime rates.


Tousaw said that if unchallenged, the Ontario ruling could have a ripple effect across Canada. "I would argue that if marijuana is legal in Ontario, you can't realistically have it illegal in the rest of the country."

TL;DR - Judge declares that the drug law infringes on Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; gov't has 90 days to come up with new law or weed is fully legalized.

[Qmx323]

one can only hope

[Teh Doucher]

medical marijuana is, not the stuff that the rest of us buy illegally. i sure hope it doesnt get legalized and im an avid pot smoker....

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Teh Doucher

medical marijuana is, not the stuff that the rest of us buy illegally. i sure hope it doesnt get legalized and im an avid pot smoker....

Curious to why you're against the legalization of pot other than the fact it will produce billions in revenue and make our universal health care and education system immensely better.

[Pok-Gai]

Originally Posted by Teh Doucher

i sure hope it doesnt get legalized and im an avid pot smoker....

why do u say that?

[EmperorIS]

never had mj ... will try if its legal

[Culture_Vulture]

maybe they want people to be high and happy for the elections

[xilley]

^ you would only try if its legal? it means you dont care what you actually take into your system
so just step it up and TRY IT !

420 is on the corner

[EmperorIS]

i'll try it if its legal because theres nothing holding me back from trying it .. its not that i don't care what goes in to my system... smoking and drinking is legal .. but i hardly do those

[Teh Doucher]

Originally Posted by CRS

Curious to why you're against the legalization of pot other than the fact it will produce billions in revenue and make our universal health care and education system immensely better.

foreign trade. US being the big one.

[twitchyzero]

Panda Love needs to be rebanned

[The_AK]

time to invest in lamps

[Vansterdam]

[Nightwalker]

Fuck yes, the law is ridiculous.

Probably won't happen, but every time something like this or the vote in California or something else goes on, it's a clear sign that the tides are changing.

[TheNewGirl]

I think it's kind of funny. I tell all my conservative anti-pot co workers that they should SUPPORT legalization as Legalization = Regulation + Taxes which both are to their benefit.

But they don't get it.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by CRS

Curious to why you're against the legalization of pot other than the fact it will produce billions in revenue and make our universal health care and education system immensely better.

because legalizing pot is all rainbows and butterflies and all that will come out of it is a shitload of revenue...

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

I think it's kind of funny. I tell all my conservative anti-pot co workers that they should SUPPORT legalization as Legalization = Regulation + Taxes which both are to their benefit.

But they don't get it.

Just using driving as an example since this is RS, how many more people do you think will be driving on the road under the influence of weed? Regulations on responsible use help but bottom line is that good judgement doesn't always exist when people are under the influence and when you make it that much easier to get...

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

because legalizing pot is all rainbows and butterflies and all that will come out of it is a shitload of revenue...

From what most people see/envision, legalization/regulation of pot will do wonders generally speaking.

No more destruction of residential spaces with grow-ops.
Fewer young kids getting ripped on a regular basis 'cause it's easier to get pot than booze.
Tax revenues from the government.
And so on and so forth. What are the arguments against?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Death2Theft]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/29/smal...ires/index.htm

[TheNewGirl]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

Just using driving as an example since this is RS, how many more people do you think will be driving on the road under the influence of weed? Regulations on responsible use help but bottom line is that good judgement doesn't always exist when people are under the influence and when you make it that much easier to get...

Actually, it WON'T be that much easier to get.

Right now I could walk to the other side of my building and any hour of any day have a joint for $5 when ever I like.

THAT is easy to get.

Having to go to the government regulated liquor store during business hours and produce id that proves I am indeed an adult and buy likely in restricted quantities means control over purchasing and supply.

This though will bleed enough above the board business off the drug trade to make it substancially less lucrative much as removal of alcohol prohibition did in the states back in the dark, dry ages. This will over time reduce the grow op industry AND put enforcement and crack down on grow ops into a different and frankly more effective enforcement under a food and consumable classification. They don't need warrants and crap to inspect for these things and rather thing time they levy HUGE penalties. This makes the cost > benefit for illegally growing, drives up the price on the black market to the point where people prefer legal channels and ultimately stamps it out with the exception of the practice of "booting for minors", just like we do for booze.

It also means that the police may actually get a definitive road side test to use to screen out and punish impaired and pot smoking drivers.

I see legalization as beginning to treat pot more like we do alcohol which IMO is a good thing all around.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

Actually, it WON'T be that much easier to get.

Right now I could walk to the other side of my building and any hour of any day have a joint for $5 when ever I like.

THAT is easy to get.

Having to go to the government regulated liquor store during business hours and produce id that proves I am indeed an adult and buy likely in restricted quantities means control over purchasing and supply.

This though will bleed enough above the board business off the drug trade to make it substancially less lucrative much as removal of alcohol prohibition did in the states back in the dark, dry ages. This will over time reduce the grow op industry AND put enforcement and crack down on grow ops into a different and frankly more effective enforcement under a food and consumable classification. They don't need warrants and crap to inspect for these things and rather thing time they levy HUGE penalties. This makes the cost > benefit for illegally growing, drives up the price on the black market to the point where people prefer legal channels and ultimately stamps it out with the exception of the practice of "booting for minors", just like we do for booze.

It also means that the police may actually get a definitive road side test to use to screen out and punish impaired and pot smoking drivers.

I see legalization as beginning to treat pot more like we do alcohol which IMO is a good thing all around.

Originally Posted by Graeme S

From what most people see/envision, legalization/regulation of pot will do wonders generally speaking.

No more destruction of residential spaces with grow-ops.
Fewer young kids getting ripped on a regular basis 'cause it's easier to get pot than booze.
Tax revenues from the government.
And so on and so forth. What are the arguments against?
Posted via RS Mobile

That's why most people are not in the government, because they can only think about one side of the argument. The economic benefits make sense but you have to think of the adverse social effects of making weed easily obtainable/easier to obtain.

Keep in mind that the cost of growing weed is still relatively low and dealers can always lower their margins, so if you think that just because marijuana is legal gangs and drug dealers will disappear think again. Similar to selling ipods, there will be ipods from the apple store for $300+tax, used ipods for $250 tax free off craigslist, and stolen ipods for $200 tax free and there are buyers for every market which is why people will inevitably steal things regardless of regulation. There will be a reduction in black market marijuana but it won't disappear, mainly because the quantities will likely have to be regulated so any more demand will have to be filled by the black market. And, unlike a bottle of grey goose or a chateau lafite rothschild, weed is relatively easy to produce.

Treating pot more like alcohol will spout more pothead anonymous groups and driver's license suspensions, that IMO is a bad thing. As far as booting weed for minors go it's really not that hard at all. Throughout high school I always had friends that were legal and whom we mutually trusted without ever having to worry about the authorities, same would apply for reselling legal marijuana illegally.

[RESN]

I don't think the quantities would be regulated to the point where "the black market" would need to help supply the demand. At a marijuana dispensary you can go in there and choose what you want, there isn't only going to be one strain for you. You are going to have MANY choices. Your average joe pot smoker is not going to go in buying a pound for personal use. There is just no point in that. The most you'd probably buy is an ounce, and that is just because you're too lazy to go back.

Yes weed is relatively easy to produce but it's not going to be made overnight. If the black market can keep their supply open, why can't the government? Having medical marijuana dispensaries would just make the market of weed a whole lot cleaner. No having to worry about laced, sprayed, bad weed.

Liquor is legalized isn't it? And since booting is so easy, wouldn't alcohol be a problem too. From my experience you can wait outside a liquor store and ask any fitting middle aged or college person granted you give them a extra $5. There are liquor services out there delivering and selling alcohol illegally to kids after hours too, and those guys definitely aren't going to tell the authorities after. So what should we do about this? You can never take away the "black market" but like you said, we can reduce this.

[TheNewGirl]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

That's why most people are not in the government, because they can only think about one side of the argument. The economic benefits make sense but you have to think of the adverse social effects of making weed easily obtainable/easier to obtain.

If you think the "government" looks at this issue in any terms beyond "if I touch this subject I'll lose votes" you're on crack.

We have seen in other places how delegalization and legalization greatly reduces the social stigma that leads to the blackmarket and related culture and actually lowers problematic drug use amongst the general population.

Look at what happened when the alcohol prohibition in the states was repealed, or for a better analogue, look at what Portugal which had previously some of the HIGHEST drug crime rates in Europe but upon their change in approach to dealing with drug use now have some of the lowest drug crime related rates in Europe (They decriminalized pot, cocaine, heroine and LSD for personal use), as well as a huge reduction in all the crap that comes with drug use (HIV, overdose, and so on and so forth).

All our medical and sociological and historical evidence says that with vices prohibition = black market = crime.

While tolerance = rehabilitation = lower drug use = lower drug related crime rates.

I know the Puritanical American Media has sold the whole vice = ultimate evil mentality very hard to us Canadians, we're far far away from places where they do things differently but there are places where they don't continue trying the same things over and over and over again insisting eventually they'll succeed which is really, ultimately, been our approach to drugs and crime here in North America.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Teh Doucher

foreign trade. US being the big one.

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

That's why most people are not in the government, because they can only think about one side of the argument. The economic benefits make sense but you have to think of the adverse social effects of making weed easily obtainable/easier to obtain.

Keep in mind that the cost of growing weed is still relatively low and dealers can always lower their margins, so if you think that just because marijuana is legal gangs and drug dealers will disappear think again. Similar to selling ipods, there will be ipods from the apple store for $300+tax, used ipods for $250 tax free off craigslist, and stolen ipods for $200 tax free and there are buyers for every market which is why people will inevitably steal things regardless of regulation. There will be a reduction in black market marijuana but it won't disappear, mainly because the quantities will likely have to be regulated so any more demand will have to be filled by the black market. And, unlike a bottle of grey goose or a chateau lafite rothschild, weed is relatively easy to produce.

Treating pot more like alcohol will spout more pothead anonymous groups and driver's license suspensions, that IMO is a bad thing. As far as booting weed for minors go it's really not that hard at all. Throughout high school I always had friends that were legal and whom we mutually trusted without ever having to worry about the authorities, same would apply for reselling legal marijuana illegally.

You're kidding, right?

All your points are utterly ridiculous. Thank god you're not in the government because you can't even see what is in front of you.

1. Making it easier to access. Yeah, because right now weed is SOOOO hard to get a hold of. Hell, I bet I can walk any two blocks in Vancouver and either find a dealer or someone who can point me in the right direction.

2. Dealers are in it for the money. With decreased margins, they will not likely be in business for very long seeing as the risks associated with it are still high.

3. Because everything you listed there isn't already happening. Driving under the influence encompasses more than just drinking and driving. It is under the influence of any drug.

Lastly, good luck with the booting idea. It sure works out well for alcohol too doesn't it?

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

They decriminalized pot, cocaine, heroine and LSD for personal use

Actually it was all drugs. It's been working there for a decade.

"In July 2001, Portugal became the first European country to formalize decriminalization of drug possession for personal use, when they introduced Law 30/2000. The law decriminalized the use, possession and acquisition of all types of illicit substances for personal use, defined as being up to ten days supply of that substance. This was in line with the de facto Portuguese drug policy before the reform. Drug addicts were then to be aggressively targeted with therapy or community service rather than fines or waivers."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

[Drow]

The only way i can see the legalization of marijuana to be most economically profitable for the government, and to discourage the black market for marijuana is if they mass produced weed to the point where its cheaper than what dealers can offer you. The dealers would have to cut down their profits in order to stay competitive and i doubt anybody could mass produce it to that point other than the government. Doubt that would happen though, since the gov't would probably tax the shit outta it.
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