Originally Posted by bing (Post 7453616)

ooh boo fucking hoo its $80. They buy a name brand handbag and boom the government recovers more than that rebate already. Wealthy people tend to SPEND money and that generates tax revenue. Also it's not like if that money was not given to them, it would directly go into someone less fortunate's pocket. The problem with the social system is that it breeds laziness. The only way it helps is if everyone works even harder and we all benefit, unfortunately that isn't the case. Why don't you start bitching about all the bums and free loaders in society, as I remember 1 million dollars is spent in the DTES every day. Figure probably doesn't even include using up all our police and hospital resources.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7453719)

The rich Chinese are buying up Canada just like twenty years ago the rich Americans buying up lands in China and setup factories there and abuse its labor. Karma is a bitch.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7454102)

I truly don't understand why not learning English in canada is such a big deal for many of you.

I can totally understand why all the rich immigrants won't bother to learn a lick of english here, and I support them 100%. This is a free country what language they speak is none of you business.

You need to understand: Many of the wealthy Chinese in Canada came here for a very short term purpose: they either just want to send their children here for education or just buying a 2nd home here for vacation or investment purpose. Under this circumstance do you think any of them would actually want to seriously learn a foriegn language?

answer this: if you ever become rich enough to purpose a 2nd house in Mexico or the Middle East for vacation / investment purpose, would you be learning Spanish or Arabs like theres no tomororw? no, you would not. You would still be in Mexico or Middle East and expect them to speak your language (in this case english) to be at your service.

Get this: try to get into the richman's mindset is the first step toward one day being like one of them.

Originally Posted by parm104 (Post 7454149)

Why should you work harder you ask? Not because we want you to help rich people become more rich...But because you feel that you deserve more and have the potential to be more financially stable...Everyone makes life choices...the choices made by "rich" people have generally brought them to where they are today. Yes, some get their money through inheritances and trust funds, but nevertheless, someone in their family, at one point or another, worked extremely hard to earn that money. They have the right to do as they please with it so long as they are not directly hurting anyone else with it. If they want to give it to their children, they have every legal and moral right to do so.

Originally Posted by willystyle (Post 7454155)

And don't give me this BS that moving out to the suburbs will be affordable cause it's not. For a family of 4, buying a house in Surrey Central, for example, will set you back 500-550K before tax. After tax, you're looking at approximately 620K. 20% down-payment, for example, which is UNHEARD of, would set you back at 124K downpayment. A mortgage of 496K, at today's rate of 3.7% Variable, 5 years interest term, amortization at 30 years.

Monthly payment is $2,283.00

This is ONLY your mortgage payment, excluding utils, property tax, maintenance, etc.

Average household income is approximately 60k in Vancouver (gross). Net income is approximately 48K.

The annual mortgage payment is $27,396 (2,283.00 x 12).

That is 57% of your annual income going towards ONLY your mortgage for the average household.

Nevermind buying and owning a house in Vancouver, This is not even affordable to buy a house in the suburbs for an average family.

This is how fucked up and flawed our real estate market is.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7454241)

you just a whining bitch who apparently has never got out of vancouver to see the real world.

have you been to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, China, HK, or ANY other countries whose native language is not English? ALL of these countries without exception have their street signs in both their own language AND English. Why? because they want to make life easier for foriengers, and this is what I call hospitality. What makes you think Canada can be so arrogant and doesn't need to have signs in other languages? you think the Queen still rules the earth or something? wake up! it's time to pull your head out of the hole and see the real world.

Originally Posted by Z3guy (Post 7454269)

really?, maybe you tell that to my neighbour who painted his house bright red, talks really loud outside late at night, spits all over the place, and generally thinks he can act the same way in Vancouver as he does in China.

Originally Posted by observer (Post 7454635)

Last time I checked, the Chinese salesman was making a few hundred thousand a year at Porsche taking full advantage of the situation.

There are lots of opportunities.

Originally Posted by observer (Post 7454651)

You are quite right about the husbands, but I think their family members do spend quite substantially here. Perhaps insignificant compared to the father, but for our small economy, the wives and kids are putting down quite a lot of money.

Look at Holt Renfrew, look at all the restaurants in Richmond, look at all the luxury car dealerships.

Originally Posted by Manic! (Post 7454682)

That's called a vacation property. Lots of Canadians are doing the same thing in the states.

Originally Posted by willystyle (Post 7454889)

Has it reached our level of unaffordable?
Do we have nearly as many foreclosures?
Do they generate as much international interest as we do?

The answer is NO, so I don't see your point.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7454956)

no...I will continue to encourage the rich immigrants here not to speak the local language, and this is how most of them do anyways.

Why? because when Americans moves to China, HK, Japan or any other Asian countries (For long term work /vacation not just temporary), almost none of them bother to learn the local languages, so why should the Chinese learn your language?

And you say the governments in other countries don't bend for foreigner's needs... uh you obviously haven't never got out of this shitty country..in Japan ,China or Taiwan, we have many "American schools" or "european schools" so that the Americans and Europeans can have their children study in those school, in their own languages and don't have to go to the local schools....can you imagine the level of arrogance here? is Canada doing the same? Does Canada have a Chinese school so that we Chinese can get proper education and don't have to go to the shitty local schools and be with white trash kids and learn how to smoke pot and vandalize? answer is no.

so you poor white trash or chinese traitors just keep complaining..just like others say, haters be hating, but your poor government will just welcome more rich Chinese to buy up your land with open arms. don't like it? work harder, or move to mexico or brazil where you will instantly become rich comparing to the locals, just like what we are doing.

Originally Posted by skylinergtr (Post 7455024)

if there are hot hongers moving into my area, i am not complaining.

Originally Posted by skylinergtr (Post 7455024)

if there are hot hongers moving into my area, i am not complaining.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

TL;DR: I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said in this thread.........

.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

[COLOR="Red"]These points are valid but also have issues in and of themselves. How many people are employed by Porsche as salespeople? How will an increase of Porsche sales increase the pocketbook of the owners of the dealership and the salesperson. There will not be a huge boom in the number of Porsche mechanics, nor HR salespeople.

While lots of people are looking at the amount of money being spent in total, I am thinking more in terms of the way it's being spent. How many more jobs is Holt Renfrew creating because of the number of people spending their money there? How many more Real Estate agents have jobs because of this? What's the end result in the number of jobs created? Tax revenue is kind of moot when it goes back into EI Payments.

Originally Posted by Marco911 (Post 7450626)

I thought the Lion's Gate Bridge was supposed to scare the C-Lai's away. :(

Originally Posted by asian_XL (Post 7455111)

Honger is an extinct species in Vancouver, pretty much.
They are now living just like normal Vancouvrite with average income.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

TL;DR: I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff said in this thread.



What you're looking at is the Government revenue side of things. Having lived below the poverty line, the statement you're making with this rant is very much a "let them eat cake" one. $80 is enough for me to buy meat for a month. Costco Chicken and Beef, bagged and frozen and I have enough meat to last me for a month. That means I can eat so I have enough energy to get through work without running out of energy and feeling exhausted.

You may claim that the social system breeds laziness but I'm not so sure that's true. If the social system is so good, what makes you want to keep working? Why do you not just sit there and leech off welfare? I can list several reasons: Pride. Dreams for the future. Desire for goods. A desire to make yourself something bigger than you are, or to build something for future generations.

A social system should be something people can fall back on when you face hard times. Something that when or if you lose your job and the market crashes (which can happen at the same time, as much as we'd hope that it doesn't), you will have a cushion to fall on just in case you need it. And a cushion that's got enough spring to it that you can bounce back and pull yourself up.

Please don't misunderstand me, though. I'm not at all saying that the money spent in the DTES is justified in being spent in the manner that it is. $365,000,000 could buy a whole lot of supervised social housing, job training, drug rehab, and harm reduction. The issue is that many of those things are not measureable--you can measure the number of police incidents and the number of sandwiches that get handed out and the number of needles that get exchanged and the number of people on the streets....and people want numbers. The numbers we can't track (things like the recoveries that have been provided by Safe Injection Sites like Insite) are the ones that are actually the most crucial.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the factories in China are owned by mainland Chinese or Taiwanese-chinese people, aren't they? Many multinational corporations set up in China, but wasn't it though starting subsidiary companies there?

As a sidenote: how has foreign investment affected the price of housing in China? Are there any places that have faced a sudden influx of outside dollars which have caused a housing availability or pricing crises?


Interestingly enough, I got in a fight with an Old White Lady (I'm white too, btw) coming back Downtown from West Van. I was on the bus and there was a bunch of 5 or six (I think) Brazilian kids in their early 20s-ish speaking (I think) Portugese. OWL starts berating them for not speaking English. "You should speak English." "This is Canada, we only have two official Languages" "It's a courtesy to others." I, as well as other people on the bus, started to get upset with her saying that while the two languages are the official languages, people are free to speak whatever they like. It seemed like they were international students, who were coming here to learn English. As an English teacher, I feel that students should speak English as much as possible in order to adjust to the English mentality. Having gone abroad before to a foreign country and trying to adapt, I also understand the need to just talk with people of your own language/background in order to just unwind and talk without worrying about grammar or vocab.

That having been said, if I were to invest in a foreign country, you're damned right I'd want to make sure I knew at least a little bit of the language. If I'm to dump thousands, if not millions, of dollars into a foreign country, I would sure as hell not want to take just one person's word on what the laws, policies and habits of the native country there are. I wouldn't want to always rely on agents to do absolutely everything for me. I would want to keep an element of control and communication. It may only be me, but I like making social connections with those around me--from the same culture and mentality or not.



Interestingly enough, I agree with this point. People are free to do whatever they want with their money. I disagree, however, with the idea that rich people should not be taxed and should have no responsibility to the people below them. The idea behind reducing corporate tax rates and making it easier for businesses to make profits is that these profits will turn into jobs or raises which turn into more money--yet when the minimum wage is set to go up, several business owners complain that they cannot afford to pay their employees anymore, and the if people want to make more they should work harder.

Point being that while people will work harder to make themselves better off, they will generally not do things to help others unless forced or coerced (a good employee says "I'm gonna quit" and a raise is then offered).


Agreed. More than dollar amounts, livability indexes usually look at percentage of income spent on housing. An ideal amount is supposedly 30%, and we are...far from that.


When I first started teaching English, a really decently-sized chunk of them hate a real anger against English. English is everywhere in Asia, and I didn't really understand their anger until I took a quick trip to Korea on vacation. English is literally everywhere--I felt like I could live there without learning the language. And when I made that realization, I felt profoundly guilty. Certainly, the spread of English as a Lingua Franca has been helpful for the tourism industry worldwide (no matter where you go or what your native tongue is, chances are someone somewhere will speak some English) and an amazing coup for Cultural Imperialism. I honestly feel bad when I hear my students complain about The Foreign District, where all the white people live hiding in their little sheltered pocket of WhiteLand where they don't have to deal with the crazy foreigners who live in and are citizens of that country and who pay their salaries.

I really wish they'd pull their heads out of their holes and see the real world too.


My mom painted her house purple, blows out snot rockets while she gardens, and gets annoyingly loud when she has a glass of wine with her friends on the porch at night. Your point?



These points are valid but also have issues in and of themselves. How many people are employed by Porsche as salespeople? How will an increase of Porsche sales increase the pocketbook of the owners of the dealership and the salesperson. There will not be a huge boom in the number of Porsche mechanics, nor HR salespeople.

While lots of people are looking at the amount of money being spent in total, I am thinking more in terms of the way it's being spent. How many more jobs is Holt Renfrew creating because of the number of people spending their money there? How many more Real Estate agents have jobs because of this? What's the end result in the number of jobs created? Tax revenue is kind of moot when it goes back into EI Payments.


And lots of it is coming because of the housing bubble and subsequent increase of the Canadian dollar relative to the US dollar. Also, see below:

(thanks man!)


Unfortunately, it's true that many people who leave Canada or the US or England never bother to truly adjust to their new home-country. "American schools" and "European schools", however....that's something quite different. Most of them are actually termed "International schools", and a good number of them are mostly funded by people who live in and were born in whichever country it is in. A former coworker of mine's father was a Consul for the American Embassy in Brazil. His father was to be stationed there for only two years, and so trying to get an education for 2 years in full Portugese would have been highly impractical. The International school he attended was for foreign diplomats' children, and RIDICULOUSLY rich locals. When I say ridiculously, I mean "booking a whole club on a saturday night for the whole night just for a 15-year-old-girl and her classmates" ridiculous. These people sent their children to these schools because they acknowledged that English is the Lingua Franca and trade language, and that the name brand of an Ivy League or Oxford/Cambridge-type University is invaluable when determining a person's future--and the only way you can go to one of those is if you are educated in and speak English. Certainly, we as English native speakers have a massive advantage over foreigners, which is why only the ridcu-rich can send their children there.


As far as Chinese schools...it's interesting you should mention that. Burnaby (SD41 for those who are interested) has recently started a pilot Mandarin Immersion program for students. Not for students who speak Chinese at home, but for non-chinese-speaking families who want to give their children a leg up on what may be the next big Lingua Franca.

You might think Canadians don't give China and Mandarin the hueg mad props it deserves, and you may be right. But the times are a'changin' both here and there--and everywhere really. It's all just a question of who benefits now and in the future.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

What you're looking at is the Government revenue side of things. Having lived below the poverty line, the statement you're making with this rant is very much a "let them eat cake" one. $80 is enough for me to buy meat for a month. Costco Chicken and Beef, bagged and frozen and I have enough meat to last me for a month. That means I can eat so I have enough energy to get through work without running out of energy and feeling exhausted.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

You may claim that the social system breeds laziness but I'm not so sure that's true. If the social system is so good, what makes you want to keep working? Why do you not just sit there and leech off welfare? I can list several reasons: Pride. Dreams for the future. Desire for goods. A desire to make yourself something bigger than you are, or to build something for future generations.

Originally Posted by Apparition (Post 7455562)

that's the whole thing I hate about the mainland culture. It's just about the money and privilege but never about improving yourself as a person.

Originally Posted by willystyle (Post 7454642)

Alot of Chinese investors that I know of don't reside in Vancouver after they purchase properties here. They basically come here, snatch up a few properties, then they go back to their homeland. Maybe visit once or twice a year here.

Vancouver basically serves as a hub for them to hide their money, now I'm not saying that all of them are like that, but a lot of them are. Therefore, I don't think that equates to them supporting our economy by luxury cars, meals, groceries, and other goods and entertainment cause they don't live here. Everyone pays property tax as long as you own property. Rental income can heavily be under the table, so therefore untaxed.

The modern day wealthy Chinese are very patriotic, they know it's the same government, and economy that got them rich. They would care less about getting a Canadian citizenship, cause then they would need to give up their Chinese citizenship.

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 7455031)

[COLOR="Red"][B][I]TL;DR:
My mom painted her house purple, blows out snot rockets while she gardens, and gets annoyingly loud when she has a glass of wine with her friends on the porch at night. Your point?



.

Originally Posted by Z3guy (Post 7456973)

The China Chinese are very patriotic as long as the Govt give them benefits over the next family. I am sure they wouldn't be that patriotic when the govt/army take their land, business, and money.

Originally Posted by parm104 (Post 7455404)

‎"Three solutions to every problem: Accept it, change it leave it. If you can't accept it, change it. If you can't change it, leave it."

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7455517)

Graeme, well written and I agree with most of what you said. If there are more people like you and less people bitching about, the world would become a much better place.

Originally Posted by observer (Post 7455540)

Think ESL school teachers, think Richmond restaurant servers, think T&T cashiers, think language school administrative staff members, think all small and middle size businesses supported by new immigrants, think the amount of money the 30,000 Chinese immigrants bring.

Originally Posted by bing (Post 7456798)

It's probably not true for most people, and using me was a bad example. I am specifically targeting those that are already on welfare and don't have any incentive to improve their situation by finding work. In the past, I knew of two people who stayed on welfare the whole time (10+ years and probably still are) and never looked for work legitimately using excuses to justify staying lazy. They were fine living off the government checks as long as it could pay the rent and food. Things would be different if they didn't get to eat if they didn't work. Just look at countries that don't have any social system support and you may see what I mean. I am not saying dismantle it, just that it promotes a degree of laziness.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7456885)

If you think money and privilege is mainland culture, you are way too shallow.

China has got 5000 years of history, culture and civilization, and the recent capitalism in China has only happened for just 30 years, theres way, way more to China than just that.

Originally Posted by Z3guy (Post 7456979)

My point? your mom should take some etiquette lessons. That might be OK in Asia, but fucking digusting from any developed country standards. Does that answer your question?

Originally Posted by stewie (Post 7457380)

i say change it then.


make a law like some other places have(i think thailand does this? not sure though) and apply them here: if your not a canadian citizen or married to one, you cannot buy property here.

Originally Posted by sundance1911 (Post 7456885)

If you think money and privilege is mainland culture, you are way too shallow.

China has got 5000 years of history, culture and civilization, and the recent capitalism in China has only happened for just 30 years, theres way, way more to China than just that.

Originally Posted by Z3guy (Post 7456973)

The China Chinese are very patriotic as long as the Govt give them benefits over the next family. I am sure they wouldn't be that patriotic when the govt/army take their land, business, and money. There is a reason the China chinese are buying here.....to take their money outside China and hedge their bets if the Govt decided to crack down.

Are you fucking nuts? do you really think people in China would be rather have a China passport Vs a Cdn passport? Dictator/Communism Vs Democratic Society?...tought choice

Originally Posted by parm104 (Post 7457467)

Really? Let's see what Border Services says about that proposal? Overworked as they already are, do you think they want more people illegally taking advantage of Canadians here so they can gain a right to own property? How many sham marriages will take place just so people can make an investment in this country?

There are already enough of these problems with immigration, people taking advantage of guys and girls here proposing a marriage and then divorcing them once they become citizens...

I for one would rather have people take advantage of a system than to take advantage of OTHER people directly...

Originally Posted by willystyle (Post 7457354)

What factual evidence do you have to support that the current Chinese government will take their land, business, and money?

Sir, the Chinese Cultural Revolution was 40 years ago. I suggest you do a bit more reading on modern day China.


I believe I have made that point in one of my previous posts. Thanks for re-iterating.


There is so much wrong in this comment that I don't even know where to begin. :facepalm: