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Old 02-24-2012, 11:26 AM   #17976
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Carter and Richards are both human. They've made mistakes in the past and they are now given a chance to make good on their previous blunders. Besides, you don't mess with Sutter when he's the coach. We all knew the kind of player Lapierre was before he came here and he's much better sorted now. If you were Carter, you would know this is his last chance at being a high-level player that is wanted by any team.

To me, this was a pretty good trade for the Kings, all things considered. They still have a goaltender that they can use in a trade and they can reunite two players who have good chemistry together.
No, I agree. But why Brown is my point.

And regarding Sutter. Not a great GM but his record as a coach is pretty amazing.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #17977
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Why? was my explanation and logic too hard to understand?

Using the NHL card is like saying nothing in here is credible, unless someone in here actually does play in the NHL??
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And a lot of players are now roofing them on the backhand,
which makes doing splits less effective.

I've gone into more detail (in other forums) about this spinorama topic.
But no use of me sharing any more input here, I don't think anyone here really cares or plays goalie anyway.


I'll just say until I see it stopped, I'm not really going to leave it at a rest.
I'm not saying someone needs to play in the NHL to be credible, but you've only started to play goal for a few years so you don't need to be so headstrong with your opinions.

My brother played at the BC Wintergames as a goalie and my dad played div 1 as a goalie out at 8 rinks. I grew up in a hockey home. I've been playing hockey for over 20 years so take this with a grain of salt if you like.

In the pissing match between you and Noir, both of you guys share some valid points and some misguided assumptions.

You claim players on only starting to roof backhand shots now. That is not true. Mats Sundin's go to move is similar to Burrow's forehad deke backhand shot. He used it against his former team to win the shootout for the Nucks in his last game against the Leafs.

Shootouts is like poker in a way. You don't know what the shooter is going to do, but you do know their tendencies from past history. If Burrows used his move 5 times in a row, and is sucessful, this will open up the net on the blocker side as goalies may start cheating that way. Imagine next time, he comes in and instead does a quick snapshot short side top shelf or 18 inches off the ice?

MayRay used the spin-o-rama move successfully then followed up with the backhand deke move. Though unsucessful, JSG was in a position to move laterally waiting for MayRay's first move which opened up his 5 hole.

Edler is a good example. 50%, he is 3 for 6 coming in and using that quick shot. As a goalie, I would think that he would eventually try a deke move but WHEN? The next shootout attempt? Never? Does he have hands of stone and cannot dangle?

You guys can argue all you want, no move is stopable because not all players can execute the same move perfectly 100% of the times. Factors like shitty ice condition can play a role.
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:36 AM   #17978
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are you guys done talking about this shootout nonsense?
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:36 AM   #17979
 
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Old 02-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #17980
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I think the key to UFO's argument is that the move gets executed properly. If Shannon roofed it on the backhand, Turco's chances of saving it are even slimmer. He would have to block it with his goalie stick in mid air!
If Shannon wanted to roof it on the back hand, he would need the puck pulled in a lot closer to his body on his spinorama, and not reaching out to edge of his reaches.

It's either, you spin tighter but you're not baiting the goalie as wide as you want, or you get the goalie going wide by baiting him far and just barely sweep the puck in at the edge of your reach.


It's kind of like the Forsberg 1 hand slider. It's such a wide deke because not only are you on one hand, but you're on hand hand because you're trying to extend your reach to just barely control the puck. (and by barely, i mean just guiding the puck across the line).
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:03 PM   #17981
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Why would you put Burrows with those two?...
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:22 PM   #17982
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I like how this whole debate started when UFO made the comment about how Burrows move was unstoppable and question why he even bothered trying using other moves. Imo it was a pretty unintellegent statement to make and Noir debated it pretty well (maybe went alil too serious) but i totally agree with Noir.

Now my 2 cents on the original comment which was made by UFO whichi cant find atm. Burrows move being unstoppable? Its not unstoppable but its a pretty hard move to stop thats for sure. Now questioning why Burrows would use other moves other than his patented backhand shelf is just nonsense. Ur basically saying Burrows should use that move every single time. He may as well say to the goalie, "im going backhand shelf, now try and stop that". He has to have other moves to keep the goalie guessing or his so called unstoppable move will become stoppable every single time
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:23 PM   #17983
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^More or less what I'm trying to say, I'm just seeing it differently. My saying its unstoppable is an exaggeration, I'll own up to that. You've agreed its a difficult move to stop even if the goalie knows its coming, so it cannot become a stoppable move everytime even if the goalie knows its coming. I'd rather a shooter play a pretty hard move to stop every single time, than try something new just to see if it will work, and many times it won't. Leave the experimenting in the practices.

If goalie plays that move and cheats too much, he leaves way too much net exposed for the shooter to take advantage of, which should leave somebody with Burrows shooting ability to pick pretty easy. When a shooter is coming in, the shooting option is always there if he sees the goalie cheat to the deke. If goalie is square and not cheating, forehand fake backhand shelf will go in 9 out of 10 times because the goalie must respect the shot. So this one move, really gives the shooter 2 options. When Burrows tries his other moves, it is just to change up his book but gives him a worse chance at scoring than the backhand shelf move.

Anyhow enough goalie and shootout talk for the week. Changing topics, apparently LA tried to get Nash AND Carter. I wonder what the package going the other way would have looked like. In this salary cap day and age, we seldom see such huge blockbusters anymore

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #17984
 
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they were trying to sell bernier in a big package. but columbus said they weren't interested as they thought he wasnt as good as other young goalies out there (schnieder, rask)

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #17985
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if JJ + 1st for carter was successful, would DD + 1st land them nash? I doubt kings will even do that
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:41 PM   #17986
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they already have a hole now on defense without Jack Johnson. trading Drew Doughty would be franchise suicide.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #17987
 
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bringing up doughty in any trade =
jj wasnt 100% happy in la. hes excited to be going to columbus because he wants to be the go to dman
i dont think la has that big of a hole in defence now. they have tons of GOOD d prospects. in fact the play of voynov and martinez is the reason jj was expendable
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:47 PM   #17988
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I remember a year or two back, Bernier was touted as the goalie the Kings wanted ong term, and Quick was just a very good stopgap until Bernier developed. I don't follow the Kings closely, but it seems Bernier didn't have the same opportunities that Rask did, and Schneider has been managed and developed really closely by the Canucks obviously. I didn't think Rask was available on the market, as Thomas doesn't appear to be a long term solution in Boston. What other good youngish starting calibre goalies are available? Tampa needs a goalie bad too, and have needed one all season long. Too bad they let Mike Smith go last year, he's having a good year this season

Playing behind a team like the Canucks vs. the Kings also plays a big role in any talented young goalie's development.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:07 PM   #17989
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This shootout debate is stupid...You guys are arguing about a technicality....UFO used exaggeration and stated that Burrows move is unstoppable, and Noir is arguing that no move is unstoppable...Yes, okay, no move is "unstoppable"; he meant "damn-near unstoppable." Now STFU.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:13 PM   #17990
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bringing up doughty in any trade =
jj wasnt 100% happy in la. hes excited to be going to columbus because he wants to be the go to dman
i dont think la has that big of a hole in defence now. they have tons of GOOD d prospects. in fact the play of voynov and martinez is the reason jj was expendable
Yeah, Voynov was sent back down to the minors though. If one of the top 4 gets injured, their D looks pretty thin.

Doughty Mitchell
Scuderi Greene
Martinez Drewiske

Other rumblings.

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Kings Still Shopping

Following Jeff Carter's trade to the Los Angeles Kings, the team appears to still have several irons in the fire according to TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie.

McKenzie, who was on the NHL on TSN panel on Thursday night, said that the Kings were still talking to a number of teams about their goaltender Jonathan Bernier in their quest to add another forward. McKenzie also stated that the captain of the team, Dustin Brown is also a player that could get moved.

McKenzie reports that the teams with the highest level of interest in Brown are Boston, Buffalo, Edmonton, New Jersey, New York Rangers, Philadelphia, Toronto and Vancouver.

The Final Push on Hemsky and Nash?

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger reported late on Thursday that the Edmonton Oilers are making a final push toward re-signing forward Ales Hemsky - with a two-year, $10 million offer on the table. Dreger stated that there is still a lot of teams interested in the forward if the Oilers can't make a deal.

Dreger also reports that the Maple Leafs are going to push Columbus for a decision on Rick Nash, and would like to know by Saturday which way they will go. He says the New York Rangers will likely do the same, and that Kings forward Brown is the Plan B.

Talking Points

ESPN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun says a source told him that the Kings actually made an offer at one point for both Rick Nash and Jeff Carter, but settled for just Carter. He also agrees that there are many suitors for L.A.'s Dustin Brown and the Stars' Steve Ott, and mentions that Dallas is also interested in James van Riemsdyk.

Blue Jackets Not Done Yet

According to the Columbus Dispatch's Aaron Portzline, the fact that the Blue Jackets dealt Jeff Carter on Thursday does not impact the market for Rick Nash, who is still available for the right price. Portzline also reports that the Edmonton Oilers have expressed interest in defenceman Marc Methot, who is under contract through the 2014-15 season.

Wanting to Stay

Sam Carchidi of the Philadelphia Inquirer states that Flyers forward James van Riemsdyk, who is believed to be on the trade market, wants to stay with the team.

"This is where I want to be," van Riemsdyk said.

Over the Moen

The Canadian Press states that Montreal Canadiens forward Travis Moen, who is set to become a free agent on July 1, is unavailable. Moen is currently on injured reserve.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:25 PM   #17991
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so no one is going to say anything about bitz?
I'm so close to banning you from this thread.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:37 PM   #17992
 
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Yeah, Voynov was sent back down to the minors though. If one of the top 4 gets injured, their D looks pretty thin.

Doughty Mitchell
Scuderi Greene
Martinez Drewiske
martinez and drewiske are good. theres a reason why they are 4th in the league for goals against and its not just because of quick. hell theyll prob be better for goals against now that JJ is gone . simply put they have underrated dmen because they dont put up big points, which is what a lot of people look at to determine if they are "good".
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:42 PM   #17993
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Side note: Jerred Smithson from Nashville to Florida for 6th Rounder.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #17994
 
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preds deal reeks of another trade. cap clearing for someone
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #17995
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preds deal reeks of another trade. cap clearing for someone
To re-sign weber or suter
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #17996
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I think next year TSN is going to provide trade deadline "week" coverage instead of the actual day. Come Monday.. all the big names are gonna be gone LOL
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:01 PM   #17997
 
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To re-sign weber or suter
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preds run on a cap set by the owners so i doubt its a move for next year as they could bury him in the minors if they needed cap next year/ trade in offseason. would be a move for this year.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:45 PM   #17998
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this thread needs to work on their resign/re-sign spelling.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:49 PM   #17999
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As per VanCanucks tweet.. I think salo is out for todays game. Probably to give him a breather
#Canucks D: 2-3. 41-23. 29-8.

#Canucks #Devils faceoff is not until 4:25pm on #TEAM1040... A slight delay as New Jersey honours Mike Emrick
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:51 PM   #18000
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i would love to see bryan allen on the canucks
i wonder if allen for mayray could work?
2.9mil vs. 2.5mil
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