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Old 03-15-2012, 08:16 PM   #20701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
LOSE A FEW GAMES OUTRIGHT ALLOWING 5 OR 6 GOALS AFTER A LONG STREAK OF OVERTIME AND SHOOTOUT WINS WITH MARGINAL PLAY.

WORST GOALIE EVER
Fixed!

Anyway, nobody said he is the "worst goalie ever". Just that he is not a top 5 goalie this season.. I have no problem saying that. But it's all opinion anyway, so who really gives a fuck? All that matters is whether they are winning games with solid play.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:24 PM   #20702
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Funny how basically every local radio personality says Luongo is this seasons MVP, but somone who watches half the games via sketchy stream must know more
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:28 PM   #20703
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If Lu is the MVP (which I am not arguing against) I think that says more about the rest of the team than it does him.

When was Schneider's last loss?
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #20704
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Are you talking about Luongo or Rick DiPietro?
Being the only goalie to be drafted first overall he was foolishly awarded a huge contract from a team desperate for a star.

Proving my point about goalies flopping.

Can I get a better comparison next time please.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:42 PM   #20705
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Right around the time when Schneider started that run of games and Luongo was on the pine was when he turned his game around once he got back the net.

I would like to see Schneider for a string of games right now.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #20706
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I would like to see Schneider for a string of games right now.
and if he plays well, he continues to play into the playoffs.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:28 PM   #20707
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If Lu is the MVP (which I am not arguing against) I think that says more about the rest of the team than it does him.

When was Schneider's last loss?
FEB 28 '12 VAN @ PHX
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:33 PM   #20708
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FEB 28 '12 VAN @ PHX
Yup an OTL. His last full loss was December 15 against Carolina

IMO they should ride him again like they did when Lu was injured. The problem is, they are kind of handcuffed.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:44 PM   #20709
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I know we need to get Lu ready for playoffs but it's a good whole month before playoffs, more than enough time to play schneider (at least for yesterday's game against PHX).
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:51 PM   #20710
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Being the only goalie to be drafted first overall he was foolishly awarded a huge contract from a team desperate for a star.

Proving my point about goalies flopping.

Can I get a better comparison next time please.
Marc Andre Fleury.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:10 PM   #20711
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i think luongos alright, more of a team failure

but the fallacy is: rewarding a big contract =/= coorelate to the players skills / ability for a sustained amount of time

look at gomez, redden, GIROUX. giroux is geting way under paid by comparison (yes it was his first contract or whatever)
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:29 PM   #20712
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Beautiful hip check on Marchand

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Old 03-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #20713
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I fucking HATE it when players jump in and want to automatically fight the guy when he throws a perfectly legit & beautiful check during the game
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:48 AM   #20714
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Quote:
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Fixed!

Anyway, nobody said he is the "worst goalie ever". Just that he is not a top 5 goalie this season.. I have no problem saying that. But it's all opinion anyway, so who really gives a fuck? All that matters is whether they are winning games with solid play.
Were we watching the same games? Before between November and February, Lu was lights out. He's only been terrible since March. It wasn't his fault lots of those games went to OT...the Canucks couldn't score. Since November, Lu has only given up 4 goals 3 times (twice to Anaheim). He was playing some of his best hockey midseason but like the entire team, he flopped in March.

You're all nuts if you think Luongo isn't a top-5 goalie. Maybe not statistically this year but I bet if you asked all 30 NHL GMs, they would put him in the top 5.

All you people saying Halak/Elliott are on crack. Of course, these are the same people that say contracts shouldn't be awarded for one good season and forget that Elliott was dumped by Ottawa and then Colorado where he was awful. Is it any coincidence that he became a star when Ken Hitchcock, defensive genius, took over? Halak? If you count OTLs as losses, he was below .500 last year and 27-21-7 isn't much better.

So if Lu isn't a top-5 goalie, then Tim Thomas must not be a top-5 goalie anymore either. The reigning Vezina winner has near identical numbers to Luongo and the Bruins are even worse off than the Canucks right now. They might even miss the playoffs if they slide any further.

If I were to build an NHL team from scratch, I'd have either Henrik Lundqivst or Pekka Rinne, who are probably the best two goalies in the league at the moment but after that, it's a log jam for spots 3-5 between Lu, Thomas, Fleury, Miller, Ward, Howard and Quick.
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:56 AM   #20715
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i think luongos alright, more of a team failure

but the fallacy is: rewarding a big contract =/= coorelate to the players skills / ability for a sustained amount of time

look at gomez, redden, GIROUX. giroux is geting way under paid by comparison (yes it was his first contract or whatever)
Gomez and Redden got their contracts after two or more previous contracts and were productive NHL players for many years at the time of their deals. Yes, both were stupid deals but then again, Glen Sather was that kind of stupid at the time.

Giroux on the other hand, had one year of 76 points. The year before that, he had 47 in 82, which is rather average so $3.75m for 3 years made sense for his second contract coming out of his entry level contract. Not to mention he'll be an RFA after this deal so it was a good one for both sides. The JVR $4m deal for Philly, on the other hand, was retarded.

In comparison, you could take MayRay's current deal that he got after scoring 50 points and got $2.6m (I think?) for 2 except instead of building on his success, Raymond sucked donkey balls and will probably be traded rather than given a raise at the end of this year. Giroux will be a $8.5m player in '14-15 if he continues his PPG pace.

Yes, Giroux is outperforming his contract and Gomez/Redden are overpaid but comparing the two makes no sense to anyone that knows anything about player contracts and how they're done.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:52 AM   #20716
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^If giroux held out until the end of 10-11, he could have gotten more. Points do not tell the entire story, because you have to look at his ice time. 47 pts for 16 mins is okay, but 76 for 19 min/g is even better, which is what giroux got at the conclusion of 10-11. It's quite clear that he makes his teammates better in the process.
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 AM   #20717
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Were we watching the same games? Before between November and February, Lu was lights out. He's only been terrible since March. It wasn't his fault lots of those games went to OT...the Canucks couldn't score. Since November, Lu has only given up 4 goals 3 times (twice to Anaheim). He was playing some of his best hockey midseason but like the entire team, he flopped in March.

You're all nuts if you think Luongo isn't a top-5 goalie. Maybe not statistically this year but I bet if you asked all 30 NHL GMs, they would put him in the top 5.

All you people saying Halak/Elliott are on crack. Of course, these are the same people that say contracts shouldn't be awarded for one good season and forget that Elliott was dumped by Ottawa and then Colorado where he was awful. Is it any coincidence that he became a star when Ken Hitchcock, defensive genius, took over? Halak? If you count OTLs as losses, he was below .500 last year and 27-21-7 isn't much better.

So if Lu isn't a top-5 goalie, then Tim Thomas must not be a top-5 goalie anymore either. The reigning Vezina winner has near identical numbers to Luongo and the Bruins are even worse off than the Canucks right now. They might even miss the playoffs if they slide any further.

If I were to build an NHL team from scratch, I'd have either Henrik Lundqivst or Pekka Rinne, who are probably the best two goalies in the league at the moment but after that, it's a log jam for spots 3-5 between Lu, Thomas, Fleury, Miller, Ward, Howard and Quick.
I would entertain arguments for and against Lu being a top 5 goalie this season. Not much lower than that for sure.

My top 5 in no particular order would be

Elliot
Quick
Lundqvist
Howard
Rinne

If Rask and Schneider played more games, I would definitely include both of them

Luongo I'd put in top 10, maybe. Top 5 definitely not, there were lots of better goalies than Lu this season.
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:04 AM   #20718
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Since we're on the topic.... MY top 5 goalies this season in no particular order as well:

Howard
Lundqvist
Elliott
Quick
Lethonen

Honourable mentions for Rinne and Mike Smith and maybe Schneider
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Old 03-16-2012, 06:06 AM   #20719
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Lu is top 5 because he's been a consistently great goalie since 2000.

You have to look at the entire body of work. Go read his Wiki page if you want to learn more.
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Old 03-16-2012, 07:15 AM   #20720
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Are we talking about top 5 this season, or top 5 this decade?
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #20721
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I fucking HATE it when players jump in and want to automatically fight the guy when he throws a perfectly legit & beautiful check during the game
Agreed. Its only cool when its a cheap shot.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #20722
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So has anybody been following Justin Schultz? He doesn't seem to be in a hurry to sign on with Anaheim, signs pointing to him wanting to explore free agency this summer.

Could be a Salo replacement if Sami calls it quits this offseason.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:39 AM   #20723
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Gomez and Redden got their contracts after two or more previous contracts and were productive NHL players for many years at the time of their deals. Yes, both were stupid deals but then again, Glen Sather was that kind of stupid at the time.

Giroux on the other hand, had one year of 76 points. The year before that, he had 47 in 82, which is rather average so $3.75m for 3 years made sense for his second contract coming out of his entry level contract. Not to mention he'll be an RFA after this deal so it was a good one for both sides. The JVR $4m deal for Philly, on the other hand, was retarded.

In comparison, you could take MayRay's current deal that he got after scoring 50 points and got $2.6m (I think?) for 2 except instead of building on his success, Raymond sucked donkey balls and will probably be traded rather than given a raise at the end of this year. Giroux will be a $8.5m player in '14-15 if he continues his PPG pace.

Yes, Giroux is outperforming his contract and Gomez/Redden are overpaid but comparing the two makes no sense to anyone that knows anything about player contracts and how they're done.
lol slow down there
my point it was that contracts rewarded dont solely reflect a players skill
and the giroux vs redden/gomez is a good contrast
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:53 AM   #20724
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in case anyone fell asleep in the latter half of the last game like i did:

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Old 03-16-2012, 11:19 AM   #20725
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Are we talking about top 5 this season, or top 5 this decade?
The way I think about it is who is the best goalies playing today considering their whole career.

That's why Kari Letonen, Mike Smith and such shouldn't be considered. No one remembers that Smith was basically Schneider (not as good but the best backup at time) in Dallas and was the blue chip that got them Brad Richards. What happened next? Oh right, Smith stunk it up, lost the starting job to Dan Ellis and signed for nothing in Phoenix because he was worthless in the offseason.

He might be top-5 this season but he isn't a top-5 goalie.
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