The Official 2011/2012 Canucks Thread

[mb_]

Trotz to Nicklas Lidstrom: 'Please don't retire' - NHL - Sporting News

Damn

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by Noir

I'd soak that in, but take it with a little caution on the side. The guy is under a huge microscope and there's an ugly side to hockey called politics; the guy is currently in a "save my skin" mode.

Just like Grabner, I believe CoHo has the skillset that you just can't learn and practice through training and conditioning and yes, that does come with some baggage. But don't tell me having talent does not come with a baggage. Look at Luongo. Perfect example of with great talent comes great baggage. There's also Ryan Kesler. Rypien also had excessive baggage as well, and years on over the franchise has shown generious patience with all of them.




All in all, I'm not trying to put CoHo in a pedestal. I'm just trying to put him into perspective. People's issue about MG's managerial decision to trade is only in the surface. The crux of it is what he brought in return, and that's fuckin' Kassian, which had a degree off impact with our current outcome. Had he obtained a return more favourable to the Canucks, this wouldn't be an issue today.

Looks to me he's deflecting attention from the crux of his criticism by redirecting attention to and justifying the surface criticism. Politics.

Exactly. MG's comments there were all defensive and emotional (a rare thing to see from him as he is always so calculated). I don't doubt there were problems but the appropriate time to deal with the trade imo was during the summer. At the time of the trade, Coho was our 4th leading goal scorer and effective on the 2nd unit PP. Those are facts; not hearsay, rumours, assumptions or conjecture.

[Mike Oxbig]

coho is overrated what has he done for us anyways besides J.T. & Eb's inflating his points production in the WJC

[Obsideon]

Originally Posted by kwy

Zack hasn't been looking good so far. Hopefully Gillis is right, if he is he'll look like a genius. It'll be interesting to see how Kassian develops next year.

Zack only played a handful of games this year and remember he is only a ROOKIE. I had hoped for a miracle and for him to make an impact this playoffs but let's be realistic, most if not all power forwards take a few years to develop, look no further than our own backyard in Milan Lucic.

[Obsideon]

Armchair GM Time:

Kesler + Raymond for Rick Nash

After that we'll have a hole at 2nd line C so:

Luongo for Lecavalier

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Armchair GM Time:

Kesler + Raymond for Rick Nash

After that we'll have a hole at 2nd line C so:

Luongo for Lecavalier

[xeryusx]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Armchair GM Time:

Kesler + Raymond for Rick Nash

After that we'll have a hole at 2nd line C so:

Luongo for Lecavalier

+1 but I would give RK this coming off-season to recoop, etc. See if he can pick up where he left off last PO.
I would give MR tomorrow if possible lol.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by Noir

I'd soak that in, but take it with a little caution on the side. The guy is under a huge microscope and there's an ugly side to hockey called politics; the guy is currently in a "save my skin" mode.

Just like Grabner, I believe CoHo has the skillset that you just can't learn and practice through training and conditioning and yes, that does come with some baggage. But don't tell me having talent does not come with a baggage. Look at Luongo. Perfect example of with great talent comes great baggage. There's also Ryan Kesler. Rypien also had excessive baggage as well, and years on over the franchise has shown generious patience with all of them.




All in all, I'm not trying to put CoHo in a pedestal. I'm just trying to put him into perspective. People's issue about MG's managerial decision to trade is only in the surface. The crux of it is what he brought in return, and that's fuckin' Kassian, which had a degree off impact with our current outcome. Had he obtained a return more favourable to the Canucks, this wouldn't be an issue today.

Looks to me he's deflecting attention from the crux of his criticism by redirecting attention to and justifying the surface criticism. Politics.

Nah, Grabner and Raymond were fighting for the same spot on the team. Guess who showed up ready at training camp

Plus, Grabo had more trade stock anyways(i think)

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Zack only played a handful of games this year and remember he is only a ROOKIE. I had hoped for a miracle and for him to make an impact this playoffs but let's be realistic, most if not all power forwards take a few years to develop, look no further than our own backyard in Milan Lucic.

Yeah but we aren't looking @ years later down the road. The argument is, if the window is now, why sacrifice a valuable asset that's already contributing now for a project player you're hoping will pan out 5 years later down the road?


The answer?

* Kassian wasn't supposed to be a project player. It was supposed to be a sacrifice of skill to bolster our team toughness.

Why was it made now rather than later (in the off season)?

* Because we wanted to be a tougher-grittier team entering the 2012 play offs rather than a skill based team.



Both of which were erroneous managerial speculations, and cost the club their rebound chance from the previous year's close success.

[Obsideon]

Kassian wasn't expected to contribute in the LA series anyway, we were out-hustled, out-played, out-skilled, and dominated on the forecheck. IF we made it past LA we were to utilize Zack's size against bruising teams like St. Louis & Boston.

[Tim Budong]

I'll say it again, Kassian, like Gragani were thrown into the Sabres mix because of a rebuild.

Now picture two rookies on a veteren squad such as Vancouver and they basically fall off the depth chart.

Kassian was expected to bring toughness, instead, he became a liability.
Gragani looked horrible out there in a tighter western conference.

Both these guys will need more development time. I wouldnt be surprised if either of them started with the Wolves next year.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Obsideon

Kassian wasn't expected to contribute in the LA series anyway, we were out-hustled, out-played, out-skilled, and dominated on the forecheck. IF we made it past LA we were to utilize Zack's size against bruising teams like St. Louis & Boston.

Yes he was.

Look at the team dynamic of why the first 2 games went terrible. We got into penalty troubles because we tried to Boston Bruin our way into a win; and ultimately, I could sorta feel (during the trade) that the club wanted to Boston Bruin their way to the Cup.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Kassian was just hyped up so the loss of Hodgson didnt look so bad. But it looked bad when the trade happened and it still looks bad today. I said the day of the trade that "Nothing Less than a Stanley Cup will ever make me forget that we lost Hodgson, Nothing!" So far i havent forgotten and a few of us havent forgotten either. Our Window of winning is getting smaller and smaller IMO, so Kassian better get practicing if he wants to make that impact sooner than later.

[kwy]

Originally Posted by PornMaster

You actually think the Laffs have any value for the canucks, esp Kessel

So you don't think Kessel would do the Canucks any good?

[PornMaster]

Originally Posted by kwy

So you don't think Kessel would do the Canucks any good?

If we got him for a late draft pick, yes.
Other than that no.

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

Kassian was just hyped up so the loss of Hodgson didnt look so bad. But it looked bad when the trade happened and it still looks bad today. I said the day of the trade that "Nothing Less than a Stanley Cup will ever make me forget that we lost Hodgson, Nothing!" So far i havent forgotten and a few of us havent forgotten either. Our Window of winning is getting smaller and smaller IMO, so Kassian better get practicing if he wants to make that impact sooner than later.

uhhhh are you sure about that?

this is what you said that day:

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

I see people downtown rioting over this
Posted via RS Mobile

this is what i said:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

nothing short of a cup will make me accept this trade. nothing.

[highfive]

Why does everyone keep thinking Kassian was here to replace Cody?

Pahlsson replaced him. Cody "couldn't" be the 3rd line centre because he couldn't check against opposing teams. AV always wanted a legit checking line against the opposing team's top lines. Sort of what we had last year with Torres-Malhotra-Hansen.

You add the baggage that comes along with Cody and look at what you're getting in return. Gillis went for it.

I do agree timing was bad in a way. BUT...everyone here thinks that why not summer? but did you ever think maybe Buffalo won't do that deal in the summer? Maybe because it was the trade deadline and Buffalo wanted to fight for playoff spot and needed that second line centre, and Cody was the best they can get. They were willing to give up on a 13th overall pick power forward who was drafted 3 years ago.

As for losing to LA...Cody wouldn't have made a significant difference. You lose games when your top guys are not producing or playing well at all. C'mon...Henrik was our leading goal scorer.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by mb_

Trotz to Nicklas Lidstrom: 'Please don't retire' - NHL - Sporting News

Damn

That's the sort of respect Lidstrom commands. Classy gesture by Trotz...like Iggy rounding up the Flames to shake Linden's hand in his last game. Lidstrom is the quintessential captain. The only reason he wasn't captain his entire career was because there was this dude named Steve Yzerman on the Red Wings at the time.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

Kassian was just hyped up so the loss of Hodgson didnt look so bad. But it looked bad when the trade happened and it still looks bad today. I said the day of the trade that "Nothing Less than a Stanley Cup will ever make me forget that we lost Hodgson, Nothing!" So far i havent forgotten and a few of us havent forgotten either. Our Window of winning is getting smaller and smaller IMO, so Kassian better get practicing if he wants to make that impact sooner than later.

People remember champions, not a prospect

done

[rsx]

Hodgson wasn't getting along well with management. MG even said he had to spend more time in the 3 years with Cody than any other player in the organization. Clearly there was a difference in opinions.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by rsx

Hodgson wasn't getting along well with management. MG even said he had to spend more time in the 3 years with Cody than any other player in the organization. Clearly there was a difference in opinions.

that seemed like more of an "im saying this to save my ass sorta thing"

I will say this, even if the coho camp wasn't getting along with management, he played through it like a professional. Especially being a young kid, he fought along, won the fans over and all that jazz.

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

that seemed like more of an "im saying this to save my ass sorta thing"

I will say this, even if the coho camp wasn't getting along with management, he played through it like a professional. Especially being a young kid, he fought along, won the fans over and all that jazz.

Also, let's not forget the very public accusations by AV claiming coho was using his back injury as a poor excuse for a bad pre-season. Coho ends up being right about the whole ordeal and AV never publicly apologized or took those comments back.

[Ronin]

The Cody situation probably wasn't as bad as Gillis makes it out to be...but at the same time Gillis doesn't seem like he'd be a sort of person to say something like that lightly just to save his own hide. Gillis has always seemed like he doesn't have any fucks to give about what other people think of him so I tend to think Cody really asked for a trade.

I hear one of the rumored trades was for John Carlson of Washington...I would've done that in a second.

[kristianhay]

^

I heard that rumor too, though I'm fairly certain we offered CoHo for Carlson and they declined. Something to that effect anyways.

[b0unce. [?]]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

People remember champions, not a prospect

done

i remember alex daigle