That is very interesting. Now we can see these people just want to give you a hard time without thinking about whether what they did is legal or not. As soon as you put down the deposit, they will try to control you and threaten you. I don't know how many people have been victims of this kind of scams. They are certainly not punished enough by the authority in this industry for doing this kind of things. It is shocking and disappointing.

well as Roach pointed out, it's normally a few bad apples that ruin it for the whole dealership. I'm very glad to hear that asshole David no longer works at OpenRoad. Since that incident, I've told countless people not to buy a Toyota there. Now I have no more reason to tell people that (I hope) :)

I am a little confused about whether this is a individual action or not. I think other people reading this thread would also like to know. If the dealership makes it very clear to the manager that it is not acceptable to bully the customers, how dare they do so? They are not afraid of losing their jobs?

At least in my case, Rick Kingdon is the general sales manager and he says that he can represent the dealership. When I asked to see the general manager or the owner. He said "they will just let me deal with it and I have told you about my position. I have the full authority in this case."

Thanks. I have done it.

If a dealership do want to discipline their management and improve their service, we would definitely like to give them the credit. I am just not sure why the managers can do so fearlessly. I am so disappointed by the fact that there is so little discipline and punishment in this industry. Say you are a bank manager or money manager and you take money away from your customer's account, you will almost surely go to jail.

that's a good point. i suppose for some of them, they reach what's considered a high level in the industry and start to feel invulnerable. they become arrogant and conniving; anything to push that sale through.

openroad toyota sells the most in bc

i guess they must do something right other than David

when open road toyota was still barnet toyota (the port moody one)

the staff were such cocky douches and uninterested in even talking but i guess it didnt help that i was a teenager (they were just joking with one another in a corner) but even when i asked about the pricing of the car they replied with some ridiculous # about $10k over MSRP :fulloffuck: this was quite a long time ago i doubt any of them are still working there (about 10yrs ago before toyota introduced their set pricing)

not as bad as West Coast Toyota though in Maple Ridge went in with my mom to make a deal on my celica and the salesman was such a cock with his arrogant attitude that i simply said i had enough of it and we went to deal with another salesmen (on a different day), over the phone @ first, who was a really nice guy and we were going through with our deal perfectly and then i see him chatting with that cock from the other day and the sales manager and the nice salesman comes back and says sorry i cant go through with this deal anymore; asked why? and he just says that he cant

:seriously:

So went to Westminster Toyota, since i found out a celicagarage members dad owns it, and they're all great guys everyone was very welcoming and my salesman was an awesome guy (he ended up moving to a surrey toyota dealership though) bought my car there and to this day i still service my car out there even though West Coast is like 5mins away



cousin had a horror story @ Honda in Port Moody where they ripped him off, lied about the details of a car engine/packages/etc, but this was like 16yrs ago (holy shit im old)

btw you should share your thoughts here as well Regency Infiniti Nissan Inc. - Automotive - North Vancouver | Facebook

^Better yet, create a facebook page dedicated to the issue.

Regency likely has the ability to delete and edit posts on their page.

Having a hard time shifting through all the 8 pages looking for the updates.
Anyone have a coles notes?

To my understanding - OP got screwed/tried to get money back/taped conversations/Boss Rich Kingdon? says - fuck off no.

And that's the situation right now?

Off topic and maybe not related or helpful but have any of you ever called customer care of the brand of vehicle you're purchasing? I know with BMW Canada, any sort of customer dissatisfaction and complaint it taken seriously and dealt with accordingly. It affects their dealership status from what I understand. I know a person who spoke to BMW Canada and had his matter taken care of..let's just say, above and beyond any kind of expectation. Perhaps every situation is dealt with on a case-by-case basis but it never hurts to try. After all, they want you as a customer.

I think also:

-dealer calls and asks for credit card # to credit the amount back when OP makes a stink to various agencies and OP says hell no - you crooks ain't getting my card #
-manager in question still does not man up to his shady dealings and blames the salesman instead
-OP is continuing to try to fight the power! and see what consequences he can put on the manager in question

http://pachline.org/wp-content/uploa...er_fist_11.gif

As far as I can tell, dealer offered OP the deposit back but OP is playing hardball and wanting to screw them harder by taking this to court and pressing charges of fraud. OP has denied giving the dealership his CC # so they can't even give him his money back at this point (FYI credit cards cannot be verbally charged. Retailers that do this put themselves in HUGE risk of a chargeback if there is no signed acknowledgement of the sale; they lose the product AND the funds) Seems to be a fight over principle and admission of fault at this point.

Waste of time IMO. I appreciate OP's fight to make everybody aware of these dealership tactics. But you have to know and understand these tactics prior to going into a dealership. NOT ONE dealership will ever have an impeccable record. You have to know their game and play along with it, but also know what your own rights are. Expect them to push the boundaries, maybe further than they should, but at the end of the day if you have done nothing wrong, you make yourself liable to nothing.

I don't go to dealerships much, but the times I have and have agreed to a deposit to get the negotiation process going, I KNOW the deposit is refundable if we cannot come to a deal. If we come to a deal, I sign the purchase agreement, and I leave without the deposit, I UNDERSTAND that the deposit should not be refundable. Legalities aside, although it may be my right to get my deposit back, why would I spend my time negotiating a deal to my satisfaction that we both agree to, leave the dealership without getting my deposit back, and then decide to change my mind a few days or even a few weeks after the fact (not including major events ie. unexpected emergency, loss of job, etc)? If I needed some time to think the deal through still, or actually wanted another car, I would sure as hell not leave the dealership without getting my deposit back. Maybe I am getting my morals and legal rights mixed up...

I kinda wanna go around to dealerships giving deposits now, then taking them back,

just to see which ones are good or bad, that way il know which ones to buy from

^ Or instead of wasting your time and everyone else's time, when you actually ARE ready to buy a car, you can ask if the deposit is refundable or not.

Our dealer, for example, does not take deposits. We do not take 'deposits' to hold a vehicle while a customer hums and haws for days, and we lose the opportunity to sell it to another customer.

We do take non-refundable 'partial payments' on cars where a deal has been agreed to by both parties, and the customer is ready to purchase the vehicle, but is unable to pick up the vehicle that day. And in that case, we make it clear that it is a non-refundable partial payment.

(and even though we say it's non-refundable, odds are if the customer asks nicely we will still refund it.)

UFO:

in my experience, the dealership wasn't able (or willing) to give back my deposit immediately (even though i used cash as a deposit). it might work if you ask for it back on the exact same day you put the deposit down. i haven't tried that before.

That is exactly what I am shocked for. You hardly find people so undisciplined in other industries.

It is frustrating to know nothing really changed in this industry for so long. 16 years ago, people in my country only knew Honda as a motorcycle company and we only had three kinds of family cars on the road. It is so hard and slow to have any improvement here and people generally seem not interested and taking it for granted. Highly developED country.

Thanks, I will do it.

Thank you for the reminder. I guess they will.

I have forwarded the VSA complaint to ININITI CANADA but no reply yet.

Yes the first stage is waiting for VSA's investigation result. We have to be patient.

Yes thanks I knew it beforehand and this is exactly how I play the game. Or I would be intimidated into buying their cars or losing my money. Don't you think that " NOT ONE dealership will ever have an impeccable record" is a little abnormal?

Yes if a lot of people do this just as a test, maybe this whole deposit convention in this industry could come to an end. I remember reading a research on tips and service quality by surveying travelers around the world. Contrary to our beliefs, it turns out that tips are negatively affecting service quality. The country for which service quality is highest rated by travelers has no tipping convention(some restaurants will fire the waiter for accepting tips), and that country is Japan. If VSA has the data, I would be happy to do a research about the effect of taking deposit on auto sales.

As we discussed in previous cases, it is very clear no matter you ask or not and no matter what you agreed on, as soon as you put down your money, some of these guys will give you a hard time getting it back.

What your dealership does seems to be a very reasonable process and why does VSA not make it a standard procedure to follow?

Just read through this thread. I've never put a deposit down on the new vehicles I've purchased and after reading this thread I never will. I don't really so the point if I'm buying the car I'll buy it and sign the papers right there and call it done. If haven't made up my mind yet I'm going to keep shopping. If that means I miss out on some vehicle that gets sold in the mean time, oh wells.

OP, I appreciate what you're doing and I hope something good comes out of it.

I remember when I got my RSX, there was a "cooldown period" or something after I paid my deposit. I think it's a Honda Finance policy or something, where if you pay a deposit, you have an automatic 24 hours to be able to ask for a refund. But this also means you can't get your car for 24 hours either. So we just dated the payment for 24 hours prior :)

If I changed my mind, I would have lost the deposit, but at least I knew the terms going in.

Thank you. A response like this makes me feel it very worthwhile doing what I am doing.

It is a very interesting policy and if you search "cooling-off period" you can find more related information about this. Here is the VSA guide for this:

Industry Questions - The Motor Vehicle Sales Authority of British Columbia

I also posted a VSA's guide on deposit in the first post. If you follow these rules, I think both the buyers and sellers' rights are protected by VSA. However, I still do not understand why they are not punished enough when they fail to comply. Especially in the case when all evidence is against them.

side track, did you create an account on RS with the username you chose to create this sole thread?

Yes I did. It is kind of obvious.