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Old 12-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #1
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[Confidential] Work trouble

The following is a thread submitted by an anonymous Revscene member. Although these kinds of threads usually take place in the Relationships or Health forum, the traffic in Off-Topic make this an appropriate place to post this


So some info, I'm particularly new at my work (ex work now) only 3 months. One day a mystery shopper came by that worked for the BC liquor board, which i was then unaware of, and i accidentally sold him beer. God knows why I did it but i felt really sorry and i didn't even remember ( i USUALLY ID) Then the Bc liquor board people came and issued the offence blah blah. The owner when he found out went ballistic. However now i recently called the owner( after final exams) and asked for the paycheck, and he said no cuz he's too busy dealing with the 7500 with his lawyer., the result of the phone call was him threatening to sue me for 7500


HOWEVER. Here is the list of things he did to me the day the owner found out about the underage selling:
-threatened to "kick my *** right there"
-verbally abused me, calling me a bunch of inappropriate phrases (**********)
-pushed me, shoved me (not hard but he clearly touched me)
+++++
-also the company didn't train me properly, at least i don't think, because they didn't make me get my "serving it right certificate" which as far as im concerned is required before you work.
-i called the police to scare them a bit, and i gave a statement, the police didnt really want anything to do with it i think, but he said he would check the TAPES. however the police checked and the owner LIED about the surviellance not working, when i was JUST there seeing it work.
-Lastly, wouldnt give me my paycheck.

**What I did wrong (not saying its not bad of course)
-Failure to ID a mystery shopper.

Sorry for the length of these details, but what im asking, is, do you think he is really going to sue me, or will i have to settle this eventually in court?
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:09 AM   #2
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Theres no reason an employer can hold a paycheque. Especially not for that.

Also, on the Serving It Right website it explicitly states

Quote:
Licensee retail stores, commonly known as private liquor stores, may sell all types of liquor. All licensees, managers and sales staff at BC retail liquor stores must have SIR certificates.
Serving It Right - Who must have a SIR certificate?


The fact that you DIDN'T have the certification indemnifies you against liability here. You should've had it as its a condition of employment at a privatized liquor store, but thats not your fault. Thats the fault of the manager.


You should be calling the labour board and letting them know. Yeah, you were at fault because you didn't ID the person, but its a mistake that shouldn't prevent you from getting paid for labour you provided to the workplace.


Also, the employer should know he can't sue you for that $7500. Don't let him bully you.





Lastly, get your damn Serving it Right. Its $35, takes an hour (tops) to do and you can do it online. You can even pay with Paypal.
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She taught me right from wrong and always told me to stay positive and help others no matter how small the deed - that helping others gives us meaning to carry on. The sun is out today and it's a new day. Life is good. I just needed a slap in the face.
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:10 AM   #3
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you wont be sued.....but i would sue them
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:16 AM   #4
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Yep you're entitled to your pay.

Though IMO you shouldn't be.
Your job is to id people but you didnt = you werent doing your job = shouldnt be payed; especially, if your direct action cost the store $7500 fine. Cuz although you were hired by a shady manager, you knew the correct policy of checking ids, regardless of if you have a SIR certificate.

But this is Canada and you are entitled to your pay. Any 'loss/fines/etc' incurred during work is responsiblity upon the employer and not the employee, even if it was your direct actions
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:47 AM   #5
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speak to the BC labour board and see what recourse you have with the former employer, you are entitled to your final paycheck even how hostile the situation may be
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #6
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sue them for emotional damages.
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeknerd View Post
Yep you're entitled to your pay.

Though IMO you shouldn't be.
Your job is to id people but you didnt = you werent doing your job = shouldnt be payed; especially, if your direct action cost the store $7500 fine. Cuz although you were hired by a shady manager, you knew the correct policy of checking ids, regardless of if you have a SIR certificate.

But this is Canada and you are entitled to your pay. Any 'loss/fines/etc' incurred during work is responsiblity upon the employer and not the employee, even if it was your direct actions
What, are you from some fucking backwater third world country where employees are little more than paid slaves?

Damn straight we have rights here. Good fucking thing too or else assholes like you would be trying to "dock" pay of employees any chance you get.
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Old 12-24-2011, 11:57 AM   #8
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sue his ass. He is holding your check that you spent your hours at work for, you did your job but you made a mistake(who doesn't?). He put his hands on you which no employer should do. That's some workplace danger. Call WCB ask for their advice also; they are very friendly and will help you as much as they can. No way the employer will win this because, he failed to properly train a employee under probation. FUCK HIS ASS UP!

Oh yeah, record conversation in person or while on phone. I have so much evidence of workplace, they are fucked if they ever do anything to me.
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:06 PM   #9
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He have no right to hold your pay cheque.
You should have ID ppl however everytime I go to the liqor store (not very often) I never ever got ID check.......
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:11 PM   #10
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i was drinking at the airport bar at LAX and a 60 year old grandma got id'd. State law that everyone must be id'd.
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:13 PM   #11
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you didnt check the kids id, manager didnt check your SIR id, call it even. haha
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:17 PM   #12
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Call him back and record the convo, tell him you'll take legal action, these people need to be taught a lesson regardless if you get your paycheck..
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:21 PM   #13
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you didnt check the kids id, manager didnt check your SIR id, call it even. haha
Did you even read the first post in it's entirety? This is far from even..
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Old 12-24-2011, 12:49 PM   #14
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In Portland, my buddy was buying a can of beer at a gas station.
I was lining up behind him with just a can of ice tea. And we both got ID'ed.
His reasoning was because we were together. lol

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Old 12-24-2011, 01:07 PM   #15
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Yep you're entitled to your pay.

Though IMO you shouldn't be.
Your job is to id people but you didnt = you werent doing your job = shouldnt be payed; especially, if your direct action cost the store $7500 fine. Cuz although you were hired by a shady manager, you knew the correct policy of checking ids, regardless of if you have a SIR certificate.

But this is Canada and you are entitled to your pay. Any 'loss/fines/etc' incurred during work is responsiblity upon the employer and not the employee, even if it was your direct actions
It's attitudes like these which gives unions support.
We could get rid of unions if managers and businesses better train and pay their employees. Not exploit them.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:13 PM   #16
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As everyone said go to the labor board. If you knew you were trained incorrectly you should of said something at the time but that really doesn't matter. Yes you made a mistake by not IDing the kid but still doesnt give the employer the right to hold your paycheck. As per the labor board the employer has 48hrs to give you your ROE(record of employment) and final paycheck.

Just go speak to them on Wed explain what happened and they will take care of the rest for you. Dont stress its Christmas season and by the sounds of it you can find a better place to work anyways!
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:14 PM   #17
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Here you go, see section 21

Employment Standards Act

Further info, complaint, etc

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:42 PM   #18
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I used to be in Commercial Insurance and here's my professional take:

You are not PERSONALLY liable for your commercial actions performed for/and under the employment of your employer. He can't sue you and is clearly bullying you out of a paycheque. Know your rights; right now he's banking on that you'll fold on his actions. You're entitled to your paycheque 100%

Also FYI,

By law, it is the employer's responsibility for their employees to be ADEQUATELY trained and ADEQUATELY equipped for their tasks; not to mention provide a SAFE environment (which includes free from verbal and physical abuse).
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:54 PM   #19
 
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The fact you were not properly trained and licensed is the employers fault. Its the employers duty to make sure their employees are trained and properly licensed when hiring them. If you are untrained and they hire you they are entitled to train you. If they dont it directly his fault. Heck, even if he fired you from this you can claim that you were not trained and told you didnt need a sir license. This will fuck him over more and you could probably get a settlement for that.
The fine is his problem not yours. If he even attempts to sue you he is an idiot. As a push is a physical altercation, you have now been physically assaulted in a work place, intimidated and suffered emotional trauma. If he tries to do anything youd get him in more shit than you ever could.
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Old 12-24-2011, 01:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeknerd View Post
Yep you're entitled to your pay.

Though IMO you shouldn't be.
Your job is to id people but you didnt = you werent doing your job = shouldnt be payed; especially, if your direct action cost the store $7500 fine. Cuz although you were hired by a shady manager, you knew the correct policy of checking ids, regardless of if you have a SIR certificate.

But this is Canada and you are entitled to your pay. Any 'loss/fines/etc' incurred during work is responsiblity upon the employer and not the employee, even if it was your direct actions
There was a guy I used to work with when I was in warehousing. Decentish guy, if douchey (It's a warehouse and there's a douche working--SHOCK!). Whatever, no big deal. One day, he's on a forklift and he accidentally bungs one of the vertical posts holding up the edge of an entire racking unit. He thinks to himself "Shit, better go report this".

He gets off his machine and takes about four steps...when the vertical buckles, bringing down literally TONNES of product.

Properly trained. Experienced. Licensed.

Not. Liable.


Employer's losses due to mistakes or genuine acts not made in bad faith cannot be punished by withholding or deducting pay. If an employee has not been instructed or given proper certification, it is a mistake which was not made in bad faith. The manager should get fined, but the guy who posted this shouldn't get fired (and if he does he should try and fight for severance) because the entire reason this whole thing happened is because either
A) his manager didn't pay for SIR
B) his manager didn't check if he had SIR
C) his manager didn't care if he had SIR or not.
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It's attitudes like these which gives unions support.
We could get rid of unions if managers and businesses better train and pay their employees. Not exploit them.
Thank you. One of the reasons I am at times pro-union is the douchebag managerial mentality of "It's my store and there's a million other people out there who wish they had a job so you can fuck off if I feel like making you fuck off".

Sadly, it tends to get into a cycle:

Employee has bad manager. Employee gets union. Employee leaves store and goes to another place, possibly with good manager. Employee still has super-union attitudes because of previous bad management and walks all over new manager, making him Bad Manager.

Rinse and repeat...
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:03 PM   #21
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What, are you from some fucking backwater third world country where employees are little more than paid slaves?

Damn straight we have rights here. Good fucking thing too or else assholes like you would be trying to "dock" pay of employees any chance you get.
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Yea... I am from a third world country... Thats why i said "but this is canada"

yes by canadian acts,laws, you are at 0% fault. manager is digging himself into a deeper hole but just want to say

IF you knew about requiring a SIR cert before the incident, you shouldve at least gotten SIR or quit. Although its the managers onus, if you knew about it but continued to work, you were knowingly screwing the store and society (selling to minors) since you are not qualified for your job. and in fact did screw up by selling to a minor and getting the store fined $7500. kinda scumbag.

if you found out after; then be guilt-free.

Yes i am from a 3rd world and employees are little bit above slaves hence owners are kings but not really cuz its true.....

Anyways, everything your manager is doing is digging himself into a deeper hole.

edit: just read graeme s post. yea i know op is not liable but just wanted to point out IF op knew about his SIR requirement before the incident, then technically OPs incident was not a genuine act but in bad faith because he knew about SIR but didnt do anything about it??????/continued to work knowing he was not qualified/properly trained. (to clarify, although its 100% managers fault, if OP knew, i feel he shouldve done something about it just for the sake of helping out his manager and fulfilling his qualification and his legal responsibility/protecting the minors. hindsight, his manager can shove it.)

Last edited by geeknerd; 12-24-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:10 PM   #22
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Mystery shopper working for the BC Liquor board.. What a bunch of thieves! Going around checking if you ask for ID and if you don't, $7500 fine. What a load of fucking crap!
What happend with teaching employee's to ID more often then making them pay!
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by geeknerd View Post
Yep you're entitled to your pay.

Though IMO you shouldn't be.
Your job is to id people but you didnt = you werent doing your job = shouldnt be payed; especially, if your direct action cost the store $7500 fine. Cuz although you were hired by a shady manager, you knew the correct policy of checking ids, regardless of if you have a SIR certificate.

But this is Canada and you are entitled to your pay. Any 'loss/fines/etc' incurred during work is responsiblity upon the employer and not the employee, even if it was your direct actions
It's the Managers job to properly train his staff, he didn't do his job yet he is still collecting a check.

Upon termination he is legally obligated to pay all wages within 48hrs and he is not legally permitted to hold your wages for any purpose. Go to this website and look through the self help kit Employment Standards Branch, Ministry of Labour, Government of B.C.
get the process started and dont back down.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:32 PM   #24
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Mystery shopper working for the BC Liquor board.. What a bunch of thieves! Going around checking if you ask for ID and if you don't, $7500 fine. What a load of fucking crap!
What happend with teaching employee's to ID more often then making them pay!
Quality control. I see no problem with it and it happens in more industries than you think.
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:39 PM   #25
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Keep the third world ideals in the third world countries kthxbye.
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