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Old 02-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #51
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I can't stand people who throw the anti-semite word when against Israel. Persians are semites are well, so drop that bullshit cop out argument.

It blows my fucking mind how stupid we as humans are, our short term memories seem to be on par with that of a dog's.

This subtle propaganda around Iran and its Nuclear capabilities are EXACTLY the same as the build up to the Iraq war. How do people forgot how terrible and shitty that war was, and how the argument for war was a complete fabrication? This is exactly what's happening all over again less than 10 years later.

It has been and always been about the control of oil resourses, let's face it we've hit peak supply, the US and EU know this. The western economies are prepping for this, and are lookg to secure Iran with a more friendly regime to our interests. The CIA are already opporating in Iran and Syria as we speak.

I don't have a doubt this war will end up happening, and I think it's extremely unfortunate. It will end up being a complete blood bath for the Iranians, and change the face of our world for years to come.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:00 PM   #52
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All that needs to happen is an assassination on pres Amadinajiiihad and everything should be peaceful again...
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #53
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You call israel "Christ killers"? You know that was the plan from the beginning right?

Rev 13:8 "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.". God's plan was that Jesus would die for our sins. Do you believe in Jesus Red? If no, then why are you mad? If yes, then same question, why are you mad? Everything went according to plan.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #54
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Do you believe in Jesus Red? If no, then why are you mad? If yes, then same question, why are you mad? Everything went according to plan.
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Are u referring to me? Cuz i wasnt the one who made the comments you're talking about...
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:40 PM   #55
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BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #56
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BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran
Iran is a country of young people and old rule.. a regime change is in the near future.. either by Israel or by the youth. Israel need a Regime change also.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:08 PM   #57
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Bahais have always been shunned even before the ayatollah much like the kurds; blowing Iran up isnt going to change anything and only make things worse
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:09 PM   #58
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StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-06-2012, 06:41 PM   #59
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StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.
I am Chinese and was born in Canada. As for religion, I am agnostic (I do not believe yet do not dispute the existence of God). My loyalty is to the truth.

PS. I challenge those of you (Mindbomber, tooslow) who failed my earlier post to come out and present your counter-argument.

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Old 02-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #60
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I think they could all use a hug... from Jesus
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:23 PM   #61
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BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran
You claim you "do not agree with the idea of war" yet you also say "but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it."

So which is it? Make up your mind.

If NATO invades Iran, Iran is going to end up just like Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are going to be slaughtered, they (NATO) are going to level the entire country with bombs, there is going to be a protracted guerilla insurgency against the occupiers, thousands of NATO soldiers are going to be killed, there is going to be a civil war among the various religious sects, the Americans are going to rape and pillage the entire country, the Iranian people are going to become destitute and will do anything to survive (like the mothers in Iraq who are resorting to prostitution to feed their kids). Need I say more?

All this happened in Iraq and it's going to happen to Iran. But of course, it'll be "worth it" because you have "good intentions."

And for those who don't think a protracted war with Iran won't to affect you, think again.

Oil prices are going to go through the roof, the Canadian military may be pulled into the fiasco (Harper as minority leader, voted for Canada to go to War against Iraq), Canada will have to spend billions to support the war and will be responsible for reconstruction, the US and the rest of NATO will have to dish out trillions of dollars during a time when the world is in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. What this means is that the world economy will tank further, millions more people will lose their jobs, inflation will snowball (governments will print money to finance the war) and the likelihood of another systemic financial crisis (think 2008 redux) will be that much more likely.

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Old 02-06-2012, 08:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by jasonturbo View Post
StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.
That shouldnt be a concern at all....(Edited out not comfortable with that much detail out, trust most have read it anyway)

Personally i feel that jews,christians, muslims are part of the same faith (as they are) i dont have any specific leanings isimply believe there might be a god and we'll see? Maybe

Im a firm believer in right and wrong and i strive for peace; i cant stand seeing bullshit (propaganda) spewed to further someones ulterior goals especially when it puts innocents/civillians in harms way (something i find inherrent to Canadian Values)

The only differences that should arise between a like minded person (right/wrong), imo, is what we define as bullshit

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Old 02-06-2012, 09:41 PM   #63
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So basically the US says WHEN isreal attacks Iran and Iran dares to defend itself or fight back the US will go in and start war. The amazing part is 48% of americans support the war......Have they forgotten WMD fiasco already?
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:44 PM   #64
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You say you "do not agree with the idea of war" yet you say "but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it."

So which is it? Make up your mind.

If NATO invades Iran, Iran is going to end up just like Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are going to be slaughtered, they (NATO) are going to level the entire country with bombs, there is going to be a protracted guerilla insurgency against the occupiers, thousands of NATO soldiers are going to be killed, there is going to be a civil war among the various religious sects, the Americans are going to rape and pillage the entire country, the Iranian people are going to become destitute and will do anything to survive (like the mothers in Iraq who had to resort to prostitution to feed their kids). Need I say more?

All this happened in Iraq and it's going to happen to Iran. But of course, it'll be "worth it" because you have "good intentions."

And for those who don't think a protracted war with Iran won't to affect you, think again.

Oil prices are going to go through the roof, the Canadian military may be pulled into the fiasco (Harper as minority leader, voted for Canada to go to War against Iraq), Canada will have to spend billions to support the war and will be responsible for reconstruction, the US and the rest of NATO will have to dish out trillions of dollars during a time when the world is in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. What this means is that the world economy will tank further, millions more people will lose their jobs, inflation will snowball (governments will print money to finance the war) and the likelihood of another systemic financial crisis (think 2008 redux) will be that much more likely.
Let me clarify, I don't agree with the idea of war in general. As a realist though, it's a very unfortunate part of life. I may come from a bias against Iran because they tried to kill my dad for his beliefs, but at the end of the day, you need to stop living in your fantasy world. Put yourself in the shoes of the Ayatollah, do you really think he cares about the people and what happens to them so long as he has power through his puppet Ahmedinejad? Do you really think that politics are going to work with such insanely extremist individuals? No, I didn't think so. In an ideal world, politics should be the way and not war, but this world is far from ideal.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #65
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No matter who it is, they would be foolish to attack Iran. If they attack Iran, they prove the conservative anti-Israel/Americans right, and give EVERYONE a reason to support them.

They do nothing, and the conservatives continue to cry wolf about the Amerisraelis while nothing happens and eventually something will change from within.

Maybe not now. Maybe not next year. Maybe not by 2020. But eventually.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:56 AM   #66
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This subtle propaganda around Iran and its Nuclear capabilities are EXACTLY the same as the build up to the Iraq war. How do people forgot how terrible and shitty that war was, and how the argument for war was a complete fabrication? This is exactly what's happening all over again less than 10 years later.
Is it really though? I recall Iraq was quite open to having their facilities inspected and searched for WMD, I could be wrong. The impression I'm getting with Iran, whether it be through propaganda or not, is that they do not want anybody up in their business and they have come forward publicly stating as such.

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It has been and always been about the control of oil resourses, let's face it we've hit peak supply, the US and EU know this. The western economies are prepping for this, and are lookg to secure Iran with a more friendly regime to our interests. The CIA are already opporating in Iran and Syria as we speak.
I have no doubt that oil is a huge point of influence. But that does not let Iran off the hook though.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:09 AM   #67
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China owns the US's debt, they will not go to war with them and severe that extremely complex relationship. It would collapse the entire planet's economy over night, literally everywhere would turn into the Wild West as every monetary system would crash to 0. Neither Israel or Iran is worth that sacrifice.
China owns ~8% of the US debt, just under 1.16 trillion. ~2/3 of US 14.3 trillion debt is domestically held. As reference, Japan owns ~6.4%, UK ~2.4%.

Ignoring the other economic variables you mentioned, 1.16 trillion to help gain control of oil supply really isn't that much to give up for China.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:08 AM   #68
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As a realist


Get your facts straight. You are no realist. You are the worse kind of idealist, the kind that thinks he knows something, calling yourself a realist *spits on floor*, when in fact you know nothing.

You say the autocrats in Iran don't care about their people, by implication, you are saying that the leaders of other countries "care more" about their people. Do you think President Bush "cares more" about his people? Did he show his affection for the people by dishing out trillion-dollar tax cuts to the 1% while simultaneously impoverishing the 99% and saddling the nation with an additional record-shattering-$4 trillion debt? How about when America's elected leaders looked the other way when the Banksters systematically created (and is still in the process of expanding) financial institutions that were "too big to fail," knowing full well that if something catastrophic were to ever happen to their investments the government would have no choice but to bail them out? Do you think that by presiding over the most catastrophic financial crisis since the Great Depression shows that Bush "cares more" about the 99%? How about then going on to bail out his buddies on Wall Street (with taxpayers dollars), who put the world's economy at risk so they could rake in billions by gambling on extremely-convoluted-financial-instruments that even Warren Buffet can't understand (he calls them "weapons of mass financial destruction"). President Bush sure "cares" about his people.

And let's examine President Obama's record, who claimed that he would "put on his most comfortable pair of shoes" and strike alongside the working class. Not only did he not do this, but he sent his thugs (aka the police) to beat up, arrest and pepper spray these-very-same-constituents en-mass when they commenced to call him out-by protesting against economic inequality and Wall Street corruption. Was beating up and arresting peaceful citizens en-mass his way of showing his affection for the people? And what about his "commitment" to bring an end to Bush's wars? Interestingly, he not only didn't call an end to the wars, but actually increased America's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan by sending thousands of additional troops (re: American citizens) into the inferno. Not only did he continue Bush's wars, he upped Bush by launching military strikes against Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Yemen and Libya. Suicide rates among the military is at an all time high and divorce rates are at an astronomical 80%! With the American military in tatters, Obama yet prepares for another war, this time against Iran. The CIA concluded long ago that any military involvement in the Middle East would predictably lead to more terrorist attacks at home yet NATO leaders continue to beat the war drums, why? Does antagonizing a billion Muslims make America or Europe safer? Clearly this is not the case. Wars spectacularly enrich the few while putting every one else in harms way. This has always been the case and this is exactly what the ruling elite want. Whether the elites are from Iran, America, or Great Britain makes little difference. Lastly, Obama promised to roll back Bush's Patriot Act and restore habeas-corpus, but not only did he not do as promised, but in his signing of NDAA 2012, the American police state can now INDEFINITELY DETAIN any American citizen on the mere SUSPICION of involvement of a terrorist activity, no evidence necessary. These actions sure prove that Obama "cares" about his people eh?

The ruling class, regardless of country, all have the same objectives-that is to amass wealth and power at the expense of their "subjects." Whether a country is more or less free, or more or less just-does not rest on the benevolence of the rulers but on the diligence of the people. As Malcom X so tellingly said, "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it."

Freedom and democracy can never be imposed from the outside. Whenever this is attempted, only devastation will follow, as seen in Afghanistan and in Iraq. And let's not kid ourselves, the Americans are not about to risk trillions of dollars and their military to "bring democracy to the Middle East." In the 1950's, the Iranian people elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, who successfully kicked out the British colonizers. The CIA then staged a coup and imposed their puppet-Reza Shah. Reza Shah ruled Iran for decades with an Iron Fist but was eventually overthrown by the Iranian people with the help of the mullahs in 1978-79. The religious fanatics then gained power and have maintained their grip on Iranian society to present day. If the Iranian people want democracy, they will have to overthrow the current regime- because no one else can do it for them.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:28 AM   #69
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WTF?!?!!
Article basically says that Canada is going to support the US more....
Dont we the citizens get a say in this? Who is the opposing party to vote for to not get dragged into any more BS by the US?

» Strengthening U.S.-Canada Security Interests in North America and Around the Globe Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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Much of the focus will be on countering China’s rising power. This will include supporting large bases in Japan and South Korea, along with stationing troops in Australia. The U.S. will also continue efforts to forge stronger military alliances with the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and Burma. While the plan envisions a leaner military force, there is little doubt that Washington will continue to police the world. How does Canada fit into this new realignment of American strategic priorities? It is clear that the U.S. will rely more on its allies during international missions. Canada may gain a greater voice in future military operations, but it will also mean that they will have to bear more of the burden. In the coming years, as NATO members begin cutting defense spending, Canada will be counted on to play an even bigger role in any possible overseas conflicts.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:34 AM   #70
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WTF?!?!!
Article basically says that Canada is going to support the US more....
Dont we the citizens get a say in this? Who is the opposing party to vote for to not get dragged into any more BS by the US?

» Strengthening U.S.-Canada Security Interests in North America and Around the Globe Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
do you have a clue how the world works? The US is Canada's best friend, most important trade partner and a neighbour. Regardless if you agree or disagree with US foreign policy we are always going to have a strong committed relationship with the US. Canada is a small very safe country because people know who is our friends are.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:46 AM   #71
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^ agreed and to the idiot that thinks assassinating the Iranian president will solve anything is in for a surprise
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:51 AM   #72
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Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:23 AM   #73
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Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?
Unfortunately we have lost our soverignity awhile ago. In a recent quote by our very own PM in 2010, "I know some people dont like it. It is a loss of national sovereignty, but it is reality.”

Or better yet, "As I constantly remind Canadians, there isnt really a Canadian economy anymore. It is a global economy.”

Who is he working for? Definitely not in the best interest of Canadians.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:25 AM   #74
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Get your facts straight. You are no realist. You are the worse kind of idealist, the kind that thinks he knows something, calling yourself a realist *spits on floor*, when in fact you know nothing.
You my friend, no matter how hard you try, will never have the kind of knowledge about my people that I have, so in that regards I'd just stop if I were you. And what are you? 12? Spits on floor? Grow the fuck up

I feel like you can't compare apples and oranges. All situations are different, you can't say that necessarily because something happened in one case it'll happen in the next. Sure there are similarities, but Iran is no Iraq or Afghanistan. The people of Iran have tried for change but have been shut down because of the iron fist of the government. The protests of 2009 and again in 2011 have resulted in casualties. At the end of the day, Iran as a country as a whole wants change, and I support any means to achieve it.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:53 AM   #75
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Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?
You do realize if we didn't have the states the world would be a fucked up place right now. Sure in some peoples eyes what they do is criminal but they are protecting our interests too.
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