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Old 05-31-2013, 11:57 AM   #101
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #102
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How is this pipeline even a gamble? I've always thought gambling has a payout equivalent to it's risk. This is more like a charity.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:59 AM   #103
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I'm glad it's been rejected for now. Enbridge needs to have better plans and funds to prepare for any spills.

google or check out Enbridge oil spill, or Dilbit Kalamazoo oil spill and you'll see how poorly they handled that spill. By poorly, I mean they literally fcked up big time.

Overall I'm pro-northern gateway once we get more money and they have a better response plan, but I'm against the Kinder Morgan twinning. I don't want to see 2x the amount of tankers when looking down on grouse mountain or at kits beach, Vancouver is known for it's natural landscape, and I want it to be kept that way.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:00 PM   #104
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How is this pipeline even a gamble? I've always thought gambling has a payout equivalent to it's risk. This is more like a charity.
How many people are employed by the oil industry in Alberta? Lots. Direct, and even more indirect.

Christy Clark was talking in the election about not wanting to have our kids go to Alberta to work.

Well, at least its an option.

The pipeline will go through because we basically need it to.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:32 AM   #105
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$70k per band?? no wonder they won't bite.. Enbridge, try 70k / person! That's still short of the 100k Indian casino pays band members in the States. I heard a quote from a First Nations prof once, "The white man can buy Manhattan for a few beads, but we are not stupid". 70k / band is insulting.

Northern Gateway equity offer would give First Nations about $70,000 a year

BY DENE MOORE, THE CANADIAN PRESS JUNE 23, 2013 10:14 AM

Protestors against Enbridge’s proposed Northern Gateway pipeline gather outside the Joint Review final argument hearings in Terrace, B.C., on Monday June 17, 2013. The Joint Review Panel on the Northern Gateway pipeline sits through June 28.
Photograph by: Robin Rowland , THE CANADIAN PRESS
TERRACE, B.C. — The equity offer from Northern Gateway to aboriginal groups along the route of a controversial oil pipeline would amount to an average of about $70,000 a year for the bands, which would be obliged to borrow the millions of dollars needed to purchase equity from Calgary-based Enbridge itself.

It’s a far cry from the path out of poverty the company claims, say some aboriginal leaders, who are among the minority who have rejected the offer.

“Only minimal economic benefits were offered,” Chief Rose Laboucan, the six-term chief of the Driftpile Cree Nation northwest of Edmonton, told the federal panel assessing the project during final arguments about the controversial project.

Laboucan said the band sat down to negotiate with Calgary-based Enbridge but would not sign the equity agreement “for ethical reasons.”

“I remember being in that room and having that binder: ‘Here is the agreement. Take it or leave it.’ Many nations agreed, but we didn’t,” she said.

Aboriginal buy-in is a major road block for the $6-billion project that would deliver heavy oil from just outside Edmonton to a tanker port in Kitimat, B.C.

Northern Gateway has offered aboriginal groups along the route the opportunity to buy into a 10 per cent equity stake in the pipeline. A copy of the offer was obtained by The Canadian Press.

A legal assessment for one of the bands compiled in 2011 and also obtained by The Canadian Press, said the anticipated annual average net income — after repayment of the loans with one per cent interest for Enbridge over and above the rate at which the company borrows the funds — would be $70,500 a year.

Enbridge spokesman Ivan Giesbrecht said in an email response for comment the 2011 document would indicate “a starting point, rather than a finalized, executed agreement between Enbridge and one of our Aboriginal equity partners.”

“A document issued in 2011 would have been augmented by further dialogue and understandings between Enbridge and Aboriginal groups along the right of way,” he said.

Giesbrecht said that as the pipeline route was determined, the company established a 160-kilometre-wide corridor for aboriginal engagement and consultation. As the process has unfolded, bands with traditional territories in the corridor have been identified and added.

Northern Gateway has said 60 per cent of aboriginal groups along the pipeline route have signed on, but the Haida Nation told the panel last week that 18 equity packages were offered to Alberta aboriginal groups and 15 signed up. In B.C., 27 offers were made and 11 First Nations signed up.

It’s more than the two bands that have acknowledged the agreements, but less than the 60 per cent claimed by Enbridge.

Giesbrecht argued the benefits go beyond equity, amounting to $400 million in employment, procurement and joint venture opportunities over three years of construction, but it’s not enough ever for some supporters of the project.

“Ten per cent is totally inadequate,” said Brian Lee Crowley, managing director of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute, an Ottawa-based public policy think tank.

“You split that up amongst the dozens of First Nations along the pipeline route and it’s just not enough, in my view, to make the project attractive or to outweigh some of the other objections.”

The Institute published a report last month trying to lay out a path forward for project worth billions of dollars for government coffers.

It recommended a higher portion of equity to be split among the bands, in addition to a general corridor benefit agreement and individual agreements that would include supply and service deals.

The institute suggested, among other things, that the federal government designate the pipeline corridor land as reserves, giving First Nations the ability to raise tax revenues and fees from allowing the right-of-way.

It also recommended the Alberta and federal governments provide fully repayable loans to First Nations to buy into the equity arrangement.

“By the time you get property taxes and various other revenue flows out of it, you’re starting to put together a fairly attractive package,” Crowley said.

Chief Herb Arcand, of the Alexander First Nation west of Edmonton, said his community has signed on, despite concerns about the lack of consultation from the provincial and federal governments.

“Business is business,” Arcand told the panel, saying the deal will generate long-term benefits for the band.

Final hearings on the project are expected to wrap up Monday.

Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Read more: Northern Gateway equity offer would give First Nations about $70,000 a year
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:43 PM   #106
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CALGARY (NEWS1130) – A review panel is recommending that the proposed Northern Gateway pipeline that would connect the Alberta oilsands to tankers on the BC coast go ahead.

But the panel has attached 209 conditions to the project.

The final decision rests with the federal government, which has roughly six months to respond to the report.





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Five conditions laid out by the Liberals for pipeline approval

1. Successful completion of the environmental review process.

2. World-leading marine oil spill response, prevention and recovery systems for BC’s coastline and ocean to manage and mitigate the risks and cost of heavy oil pipelines and shipments.

3. World-leading practices for land oil-spill prevention, response and recovery systems to manage and mitigate the risks and costs of heavy oil pipelines.

4. Legal requirements regarding Aboriginal and treaty rights are addressed, and First Nations are provided with the opportunities, information and resources necessary to participate in and benefit from a heavy oil project.

5. British Columbia receives a fair share of the fiscal and economic benefits of a proposed heavy oil project that reflects the level and nature of the risk borne by the province, the environment and taxpayers

NEB approves Northern Gateway Pipeline with conditions | News1130
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:51 PM   #107
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anybody seen ads, saying if thr is a spill by tankers,, gas companies will only pay upto $ 1.4 billion (MAX) cleanup cost. if it goes over Canadian govt will be on the hook for the rest.

if true,, doesn't seem right...


First Nations "Go Undercover" to Ask World's Largest Oil Tanker Companies Who's Responsible for Spill Clean-Up Costs in Canada | Coastal
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:04 PM   #108
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:23 PM   #109
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Let me get this straight ... We're taking most of the risk and getting a whopping 1.5% of the money?

Fucking Christy Clark ...

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Old 12-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #110
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Let me get this straight ... We're taking most of the risk and getting a whopping 1.5% of the money?

Fucking Christy Clark ...

"Fuck Me" - Eric Cartman "South Park" - YouTube
But we are getting 1.5% for doing almost nothing.

If we can land a man on the moon transporting liquid from one part of the country to the other safely should not be that hard.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #111
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If we can land a man on the moon transporting liquid from one part of the country to the other safely should not be that hard.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:51 PM   #112
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Washington group should build a refinery. Give BC lots of jobs and eliminate crude transport in the ocean. Win for the economy and environment.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #113
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The space shuttle was designed in the 60's and 70's the first launch was 81. Technology has advanced in the last 30 plus years.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #114
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My point is that when infrastructure, regardless of age, fails...the results can be catastrophic.

Besides this, I also take issue with having to watch months and months of commercials convincing me this shit was cool when it didn't matter what my opinion was anyway.

I am looking forward to 2015. This country needs a change.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:36 PM   #115
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the only worry should really be a tanker leaking oil

realistically in the big picture i get a pretty big lol at all the concern over the pipeline itself leaking or rupturing somewhere along the track

its no big deal to dig up BILLIONS of tonnes of earth to harvest the oil out of it, and it's no big deal to pump BILLIONS of litres of steam into the earth to liquify said oil, yet OH NOES! 10,000 litres spilled out onto the ground it came out of!

lol.. it's just like all the people i know that work in the oil sands, especially the "environmental" and reclamation people

so say an excavator is rolling along and randomly a hydaulic line blows pumping a few gallons of fluid onto the ground before the operator shuts er' down. That few gallons of hydro fluid on the ground is an absolute -EMERGENCY- like sound the alarm get the environmental crew down there, rope off the area, remove and bin up all that contaminated ground, file a huge report, drug test the operator

So, let me get this straight... a few gallons of hydro fluid essentially shuts down that portion of the site, yet litterally RAPING the ground they are walking on, both surface and below, building huge emission producing upgraders/refineries, and pumping talings ponds which will disinigrate bone in minutes IS ACCEPTABLE??? LOL!

it's fucked, so just let er' happen baby!
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:41 PM   #116
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But we are getting 1.5% for doing almost nothing.

If we can land a man on the moon transporting liquid from one part of the country to the other safely should not be that hard.
We're doing nothing aside from providing 90% of the land and essentially taking all of the risk should something go wrong.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:33 PM   #117
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We're doing nothing aside from providing 90% of the land and essentially taking all of the risk should something go wrong.
And you know the contract is going to go to the lowest bidder too.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:24 PM   #118
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We're doing nothing aside from providing 90% of the land and essentially taking all of the risk should something go wrong.
If we don't want to provide our land they don't have to provide their oil. They could just tell us to screw off and get our own.


FYI: we have had pipelines with oil comping to B.C. from the 50's. It's nothing new. Also spilling gas or oil on land is not a big deal.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #119
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spilling gas/oil through a pipeline is less likely than letting CN or *race* *bought class 1 license* truck drivers deliver the same stuff.

if we don't want it, it'll go another route.

let's take advantage of the situation and build the damn pipeline.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:06 AM   #120
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Also spilling gas or oil on land is not a big deal.
ummm....
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:20 AM   #121
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ummm....
Every drive by a gas station open or closed down and see white pipes sticking up from the ground? That's because there was a leak. So now they are venting the gas from the ground to the air. Also where does oil come from?
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:00 AM   #122
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uh, wrong comparison here. the leaks from gas stations are slow from the aging tanks. that itself takes between 3-5 years to remediate the soil. its some what contained within the property of the gas station.

you're talking about a MASSIVE oil burst from one of the pipes, and hopefully no more at the same time. the amount of oil soaking into the ground is exponentially worst. the clean up is huge and costly. just look at BP for example.

by the time crews get in there to even do survey of the damage, i can't even imagine the amount of oil thats been soaked and how far deep it might have went already.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:11 AM   #123
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Yukon already wants the pipeline to go through their land, then back down to BC.

The NEB report is just the start of the discussions.. it will be a while for everything to settle. I don't expect them to get everyone onside until at least the next election cycle.

It is quite simple.. if the Gov can get the First Nations politicians on side (especially the ones in BC), then the pipeline will get built. The problem is it is a huge can of worms with the treaties and honestly this Government hasn't cultivate a good relationship with the First Nations.

Yes we have pipelines since the 50s.. but now the populace is more NIMBY and are "more informed".

Actually the pipeline you are talking about from the 50s is the Kinder Morgan one. They are facing the same expansion issues too (Remember that flip flop cost Adrian Dix the election).. and the one to the airport that the mayor of Richmond doesn't want.. speaking of biting the hand that feeds Richmond... One tipped over and flaming tanker truck tapped by a Richmond C-Lai with Darth Vader mask while enroute to the Airport will solve that argument though.

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If we don't want to provide our land they don't have to provide their oil. They could just tell us to screw off and get our own.


FYI: we have had pipelines with oil comping to B.C. from the 50's.

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Old 12-20-2013, 01:18 AM   #124
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Every drive by a gas station open or closed down and see white pipes sticking up from the ground? That's because there was a leak. So now they are venting the gas from the ground to the air. Also where does oil come from?
So what you are saying here is that really this is just Mother Nature giving back to herself?

I guess you would call this a little "self pleasure" then?

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Old 12-20-2013, 03:28 AM   #125
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So what you are saying here is that really this is just Mother Nature giving back to herself?

I guess you would call this a little "self pleasure" then?

Barnet Highway Oil Spill - July 24, 2007 - YouTube
So what was the environmental impact of that?
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