REVscene Automotive Forum - Nokia 808 (N8 cameraphone king successor)

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ive got no idea about interpolation and oversampling etc ;)

but i read some comments that discussed that and supposedly interpolation isn't the same as oversampling? interpolation actually makes images worse whereas this is the opposite effect? or something or other ;)

you might enjoy the whitepaper the camera techs of Nokia released about the camera tech involved etc

http://europe.nokia.com/PRODUCT_META...Whitepaper.pdf it gets really techy with the terms for a layman anyway

this is the headset that was paired with the 808 in some promo photos

its a bluetooth nfc headset with a built-in fm radio so you dont need to bring ur phone with you and you can also use your own headphones with it

the BH-221

and Nokia also has a tripod mount for the 808 & portable battery charger (holds a full charge)

http://www.nokia.com/MEDIA_BANK_100/...nt_400x400.png http://europe.nokia.com/MEDIA_BANK_1...6_feature3.jpg
http://europe.nokia.com/find-product...-1todtmt32a073 http://europe.nokia.com/find-product...eatures#mobile

wow... BH221 is awesome...

so this works any phone??

its too bad Nokia gone with windows platform... if they gotten a deal with Google to run Android, i think they will even beat Samsung's Galaxy line

So... they made a camera that happens to make calls? :fuckthatshit:

lol its far more than just a camera ;) its loaded with features

and in case anyone is wondering how large a 1/1.2 sensor is; its not 1" like i was hoping would be the min and as was rumored, but oh well

http://4.s.img-dpreview.com/files/ne...okiaSensor.jpg the N8 is 1/1.83" so that would put it between the 1/1.7" and 1/2.3" pictured there

and the DPReview overview of the 808 the comments section is filled with photographers discussing the tech etc http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/02...th-41MP-sensor

cool interview with the lead camera guy @ nokia and you get a great overview of the Camera UI including the differentiation between newb user or pro user there's even an option to turn the ND Filter on off (wasnt available in the N8) etc Oh and you wont need a separate application to take HDR photos (like the N8) the 808 comes with a built in Bracketing option in the UI

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo (Post 7811151)

wow... BH221 is awesome...

so this works any phone??

yep works with anything that has bluetooth

ISO 800 @ 5mpx (noisy certainly but quite impressive)

http://3.s.img-dpreview.com/files/ne...iew.jpg?v=1355

ISO 114

http://4.s.img-dpreview.com/files/ne...iew.jpg?v=1355

Damn. That ISO 800 is pretty impressive. Gotta see what it can do in dark places.

^^^ supposedly Nokias still working away at getting better low light/night performance there are a few samples out there of low light/night video but they're not too hot

here's a look at Belle FP1 (Carla some say) running on the 808 keep in mind though this is sitll a prototype and beta software

the 808 has a new audio recording hardware/tech which allows for more range in terms of hz&db and other improvements here's an example of the audio recording they call it "nokia rich recording"

its the last one in the video

here's an outdoors sample of the video recording @ 1080p in the day the Image Stabilization still hasn't been implemented so its really shaky and the guy recording talks about that a little and the CAF doesnt work supposedly (i dont know how they're going to fix so many things before May given their track record -_- )

the zoom is nice though

1080p

720p (allows for more zoom)

Apple website writer praising the 808

http://www.iphonelife.com/blog/87/mw...msung-note-101

http://www.iphonelife.com/blog/87/mw...solution-tests

long interview with Damian Dinning from GSMArena lil more detailed one question/answer i found interesting

Quote:

GSMArena: Is your oversampling technology different from pixel binning technology?

D. Dinning: Yes, it is more complicated than binning. We looked at a number of different methods how we could do this, and some methods preserve more detail, but there are generally a couple of problems here. One is that there's just something not right about the images when you use binning. I won't use the term natural, the term that we use is they are not pure. When you look at the picture, you just see the pixels that relate to the exact detail. What you end up with is you never have strong contrast and there's always a certain softness between pixels—you see three or four pixels leading from black to white. You never see black then white pixels next to each other. Whereas with oversampling, typically you can see pixels literally switch from one color to another. It's really clean.

GSMArena: To use zooming in video you either use the volume key or drag your finger across the screen. Will there be an option to set the rate of the slide zoom?

D. Dinning: Unfortunately not. That's something that we wanted to be able to do, but we have some technical limitations. One thing we are looking are looking at is to fine tune the speed of the zoom. I think we're going to make it slower than it currently is. It's a bit too fast. We're going to try a number of different speeds, and then pick what we think is the best balance of smoothness and speed. There is no technical limitation for us to be able to adjust the speed; the limitation is for us to be able to vary the speed.

GSMArena: When you zoom digitally, you typically need high resolution just at the center, at the expense of the corners. Why are you using a grid with uniform resolution? Wasn't it better to have a lower resolution in the corners and a higher resolution at the center?

D. Dinning: That was something that we actually tried. In the end, we wanted to have really high sharpness across the entire image. The original theory was that we could have a higher resolution center, but when we started to think more about the opportunities that people may have with a full resolution sensor, we decided to make the performance at such a level that you could get edge-to-edge sharpness, so that if you wanted to get view full resolution images, you'll still get good image quality when you zoom to the edges.

GSMArena: There was an issue in the N8 we discovered where not every step of the zoom is of equal quality. Is that a problem with the 808?

D. Dinning: We don't have that problem here. You'll have degradation when you don't oversample, which you'll only really see in low light, otherwise you probably won't see it. When you zoom from minimum to maximum, you may still see that, because we have to change the sensor mode. The sensor and the scaling run in different combinations, and we're trying to mask that as much as possible, so that it's not as noticeable as in the N8.

GSMArena: Let's talk about the optics. Carl Zeiss, right?

D. Dinning: Carl Zeiss, yes. The [manufacturing] precision is ten times greater than with SLR [lenses]. There are five lenses, quite small at the top, and then get progressively larger as they approach the sensor. There's also a mechanical ND filter which can be controlled in Creative mode, similar to the N8.

In addition to the precision of the optics, one of the things we've been working on for some time is precision alignment. We have a live image sensor setup when we assemble the optics, so that each and every single module we make is built and then assembled with live feedback from the sensor to ensure proper alignment.

Obviously, there are always differences. There are five different elements inside each optics module and each set of five elements will be different from other sets. That's why we've implemented very small manufacturing tolerances to make them as identical as possible.

By aligning them actively we can get the very best from them. The optics would already have to be within the minimum tolerances that we define, but even if there are differences, we would align the lenses to make the best of each specific set. Fundamentally, what that means is that we can get the very best from each and every one. If we don't do that, we can't achieve the performance in the optics that we need to on a mass production scale. And that was one of the greatest challenges for mass production.

GSMArena: Are you guys the only one using this live sensor production method?

D. Dinning: I don't know anyone else who uses that manufacturing technique. The sensors come from one company, the optics from another, and it's in the assembly of the module that that alignment process happens. The design is so complex—it relies on very high precision. If you don't achieve that level of high precision, then it becomes very bad, and that's why we had to do this. Otherwise we were having too much variation; we had some really good ones, and some really bad ones.

GSMArena: Regarding the 41MP sensor, we were told that it was entirely Nokia technology.

D.Dinning: We co-developed the sensor.

GSMArena: Any word on who else is involved?

D. Dinning: Unfortunately, not at this time.

GSMArena: Are you going to share the technology?

D.Dinning: No.

Nokia 808 PureView in focus: An interview with Damian Dinning - GSMArena.com

and here's a video of Damian trying to address some misconceptions that he's been reading online (i imagine dpreview since he used to be quite active on there)

looks cool, but kind of a brick at this stage of cellphone technology. Reminds me of my old sony W900

Can't believe they started this 5 years ago.. That's when the N95 came out lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasabisashimi (Post 7814179)

looks cool, but kind of a brick at this stage of cellphone technology. Reminds me of my old sony W900

yeah it looks huuuge its only 4mm thicker than the iphone4s & 1mm thicker than the Nokia N8 obviously the camera hump is thicker, brings it up to 8mm more than the iphone4s but just on that side

Nokia 808: 123.9 x 60.2 x 13.9 mm (17.95 mm at camera)

Nokia N8: 113.5 x 59.1 x 12.9 mm (+2mm-ish @ camera)

Nokia N9/800: 116.5 x 61.2 x 12.1 mm

Iphone 4s: 115.2mm x 58.66 mm x 9.3 mm

so longer by a lot and thicker but not that much thicker than other nokia devices except by the camera

should probably feel whats it like in the hands and pocket before i decide on grabbing one i suppose :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplex123 (Post 7814203)

Can't believe they started this 5 years ago.. That's when the N95 came out lol

i know i was like wtf :crazy2: makes me wonder what else they've got going on in there

Oh and side note i should probably change that Nokia N8 successor its more of a successor to the N93/N93i (given the timeline for development and the optical zoom challenges)

you guys may only remember it from the Transformers 1 movie; it had an optical zoom (3X) i had one but never used it tried selling it on RS but it didnt meet the min requirements :okay: so i ebayed it and ended up selling it for more than i bought it for :fullofwin:

http://www.mobile2u.com.pk/Images/It..._image3614.jpg

i am total n00b when it comes to photography...but would the PQ of the still images be comparable to an entry-level DSLR?
that's one massive sensor for a phone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by StylinRed (Post 7814708)

http://www.mobile2u.com.pk/Images/It..._image3614.jpg

Man I had both of those. Good times back then..

Man the n93 was so ugly but then I had n92, n93i in black and they were awesome:tears: too bad they don't make phones like that any more, everything is pretty much the same, same OS but just minor packaging differences :fuuuuu:

Quote:

Originally Posted by twitchyzero (Post 7814728)

i am total n00b when it comes to photography...but would the PQ of the still images be comparable to an entry-level DSLR?
that's one massive sensor for a phone!

hmm obviously the sensor isnt everything but here's a diagram showing the Pixel sizes of different devices

basically bigger pixel=more light / better performance in low light and less noisy images etc

im no expert though as well

the 808s pixel sizes @ 5mpx and 8mpx are a result of the oversampling note: there's a 3mpx option for taking pics on the 808 but it seems to have been missed by most people and hence not even depicted in this diagram it should be bigger than the 5mpx pixel size obviously 3mpx=2048x1536 enough for HD wallpapers and the ipad3 if the rumors of its screen resolution are true (which i doubt)

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/image...xels808-v3.jpg

here's the corresponding article that tries to explain it for us newbs

Nokia 808 PureView pixels versus the iPhone 4S

granted pixel size doesn't equal everything but that at least gives you a better understanding of the camera

here it is quoted

Spoiler!

Quote:

Nokia 808 PureView pixels versus the iPhone 4S

Published by Steve Litchfield at 7:25 UTC, March 1st 2012

We've covered the Nokia 808 PureView in some depth here on All About Symbian this week, reporting on the announcement and answering the most common questions. But, on the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, I wanted to illustrate the single biggest aspect of Nokia's breakthrough in terms of how camera phones (and indeed cameras) can now work. Never mind the zooming, never mind being able to take 38 megapixel images, here's the real reason why PureView on the 808 is special.

The numbers behind the Nokia 808 PureView do boggle the mind. Or at least they should. The populist tech media has leapt up on the '41 Megapixel' figure and generally either misunderstood why it needs to be so high or questioned whether it's real in the first place. Yet that stat is only incidental in the bigger story.

After all, noone wants 38 megapixel images at 10MB each from a phone camera. What we all want are better pictures at standard, more manageable resolutions. E.g. 5 megapixels. Now, light being everything, especially when it's gloomy or dark or artificially lit, we want to gather as much of it as possible. So that means a large aperture and a large sensor. And, down at sensor level, it means having large pixels - large enough to eliminate photon quantisation effects, i.e. to eliminate random digital noise.

The Apple iPhone 4S's 8 megapixel sensor is 1/3.2" optical format and the pixels are 1.4 microns each (a micron is a millionth of a metre). Shown on the diagram below, in green, is a representation of the size of iPhone 4S pixel. Remember that the iPhone 4S is widely regarded (rightly) as having an excellent camera for general purpose use. Next to this is a light circle, the same size - this is the same 1.4 micron pixel on the new Nokia 808 PureView. For reference, the light blue circle overlaid is the 1.75 micron pixel from the Nokia N8, previously thought to be the best camera smartphone in the world - slightly larger and so will gather more light, etc. But only slightly.

So the N8 gathers slightly more light per pixel, explaining (along with the Xenon flash) why it takes slightly better photos than the iPhone 4S when the going gets tough.

But.

Now consider PureView, this new system from Nokia. With so many 1.4 micron pixels to play with, if the user wants to create an 8 megapixel image (e.g. to match the iPhone 4S's resolution), there's roughly five physical pixels worth of information for every one PureView 'virtual pixel'. Meaning* that the latter's light gathering ability is equivalent to a single pixel of area roughly five times that of the 1.4 micron one.

* Note that I'm simplifying horribly - in reality there's overlap between virtual pixel light gathering areas, plus I'm sure Nokia's algorithms are very sophisticated here. I've heard figures of 7 and 8 quoted as the number of pixels whose information goes to making up the RGB 'values' assigned to the 'virtual pixel'.

And so we have the mid-blue circle above, the approximate size of the PureView virtual pixel in the Nokia 808 - compare its size with that of the N8's and the iPhone 4S's. That's a dramatic difference and is the concept that many people are not appreciating.

The iPhone 4S's sensor (1/3.2") and pixel (1.4 microns) size are fairly standard for top end camera phones today - the Galaxy S II range is the same, for example. Both the iPhone 4S and Galaxy S II have very neat software and hardware processing systems to help improve captured photos, but when ambient light is low, clever processing can't compare to simply gathering a lot more light.

In fact, take the PureView concept to its default setting - 5 megapixels - a photo resolution which has long been the sweet spot for consumer photos (ever since the Nokia N95, back in 2007), and do the maths, and you end up with the virtual pixel size shown in dark blue above. Put simply, when you're at a gig or evening event or sunset or indoors in an office, whenever light levels are low, the 808's enormous PureView virtual pixels will gather far more light, up to ten times more, than competing phone cameras. (And note that this is without even considering help from the double-strength Xenon flash.)

Add in the way random digital noise can be almost completely cancelled out because of the oversampling/averaging and you end up with 5 megapixel photos from a phone camera that are virtually perfect every time. No noise, no blotchy areas, no colour aberrations, no speckles.

That's the point of PureView. Not the high megapixel number. Not even the startling innovative lossless zoom.

Steve Litchfield, All About Symbian, 1 March 2012

PS. Also in the diagram, for comparison purposes, using dotted lines, are a handful of professional Canon cameras, showing physical pixel sizes for each. Comments welcome, but with the Nokia 808 PureView I think we can safely say that camera convergence into a mobile phone is, essentially, done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVS_Racing (Post 7814831)

i know right its all gotten rather bland but its what the masses seem to want

i recently saw some pocket camcorders that did 1080p that had exactly the same design as the N93i but slimmer and i thought "why dont they make a new smartphone with the same design?" they could get a large modern sensor+optical zoom and if they didnt want to make it flip just keep that portion as a screen sans flip :/

ah well the 808 has a unique design too but as evidenced ppl are complaining about the size

In case anyone is wondering the materials used for the housing of the 808 are as follows

Polycarbonate (like the N9 and Lumia) with a ceramic finish though like the White N9s and Lumia 800s/900s

Stainless Steel for the buttons and bezel

and Gorilla Glass protecting the camera and on the front the glass is curved like the N9

so material wise it doesnt look like Nokia cut any corners when compared to the other top end devices

http://st2.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/noki...ll-collors.jpg

are they releasing it for the NA market??? or are they screwing us over like the N9 again? it would be much cheaper if carriers are bringing it over :fuckyea:

most likely screwing NA again but since there's so much Hype and desire for the phone who knows maybe they'll decide to bring it here?

but they've already been adopting their plan of only releasing Nokia WP devices to North America; 2012 was supposed to be the beginning of that plan but they kind of started last year hence the lack of N9

I hope this thing comes in penta band. Gonna be sick.

yep its already confirmed in the specs pentaband is a go

HSDPA 850 / 900 / 1700 / 1900 / 2100

doesnt really matter if theyre not releasing it to NA i guess. its loaded with Global Frequencies goodness. Nokia just took the Cameraphone into whole new echelon. P&S is gonna die soon if they spread this new tech in their whole portfolio and their competition is probably scrambling trying to outdo this or copy this... *coughsamsungcough* haha

James Burland (who even some of you Ifans may know) published a little review of a 808-protoype and compared it to the N8 and 4S here it is

oh a little background Burlands always been passionate about cell phone photography and so he's been a big fan of Nokia devices

however he's an Apple device lover/user and he belongs in the group that actually thinks the 4S has a good camera (whatever)

Quote:

Steve Litchfield at All About Symbian recently published an excellent article which demonstrated through logic and reason why the Nokia 808 PureView will easily trounce the iPhone 4S when it comes to photography and video capture. Having had firsthand experience of the 808, I was able to chime in with my thoughts on the matter, I’ve included them here for completeness, but be sure to read the article in full over at AAS

“...I have here in front of me shots of exactly the same scene, shot on the iPhone 4S, Nokia N8 and Nokia 808 PureView (in both PV mode and full 38MP). I'll describe the main differences Keep in mind that this is a prototype 808. The photo is a daylight scene with plenty of light and shade:

N8 verses 808 (38MP)

Detail: The extra detail that the 808 resolves is very real, it's not soft or poorly defined, it's genuine and meaningful. Noise: At 38MP even the 808 contains small amounts of noise, but it looks more like a subtle film grain rather than sensor noise. The N8 does well, but the noise is more lumpy, and, as any N8 owner will know, the noise in dark areas can at times appear to form streaks which are quite unpleasant. Processing: You know how N8 photos look less processed than most other smartphone shots? Well the 808 steps that up another gear, they make N8 shots look quite heavily processed, to my eye at least. Colour and Dynamic Range: Both the 808 and the N8 have great range of luminance and colour reproduction, again, the 808 moves it all up into a higher orbit. Think N8, but better.

N8 verses 808 (PureView)

All the above hold true, which should come as no surprise and it's essential using the same sensor information. However, in addition to all the benefits already mentioned, you get astonishing clarity! It's actually quite breathtaking. Noise is almost completely eliminated. PureView is the perfect way to describe the end result. It's certainly true that it has a DLSR quality about it, and of course in PureView mode you get all the benefits of the lossless zoom and smaller file sizes too. It's going to be very difficult for me to pick which mode to use, but the more I look at the PureView shots the more I'm inclined to think that I'll be shooting in 8MP PureView for general photography, 5MP PureView for lowlight and nighttime and 38MP for creative shots and scenes where the beauty and interest is in the detail.

iPhone 4S verses 808 (General Thoughts from both PureView and 38MP mode)

Firstly, let me say that I belong to the iPhone4S-has-a-great-camera camp, I've been posting some blind comparisons over at Nokia Creative (more soon) and there is no doubt in my mind that Apple have done a sterling job with the iPhone 4S camera. So I was eager to see how it would compare to the 808. Firstly, the colour accuracy and dynamic range is far, far higher on the 808. The HDR mode of the iPhone 4S can help a lot is certain conditions, but it's still no match for the 808. As for detail, well, how can 8MP possibly match 38MP? There is literally 4 times the amount of detail from the 808 photos.

iPhone 4S verses N8 verses 808 (Video Capture)

Sound Quality: The sound capture on the 808 is simply exquisite! It's puts the N8 and iPhone 4S to shame. Video Quality: When shooting video without any zoom (or just some zoom) there is almost no noise and yet everything is sharp and clear, far more so than the N8. When at full zoom, there is some noise as you would expect, but video is a tad sharper. Lowlight and night capture is particularly impressive as the 808 maintains 30fps, unlike the iPhone 4S which steps down to about 25fps. My only critical observation at this point is stabilisation. When at full zoom, you'll need either a tripod or very steady hands to capture pleasing video. I must point out that Nokia know this is an issue and are continuing to pursue solutions.

Closing thoughts

I have no doubt that when the 808 is launched there will be a wide range in the quality of photos and videos produced using it. No tool can turn someone into a craftsmen, it can help, but effort is still needed to learn the trade. For those that are already adept at capturing smartphone photos and videos, the 808 will allow them to do things that they never thought possible. I'm expecting images taken using the 808 to be used in glossy magazines and billboards, and people will be truly amazed.

For me, the 808 marks the beginning of the end of dedicated pocket cameras and camcorders. I don't want to sound hyperbolic (though I know it will come across as such!), but it really feels to me like this is just the beginning of what Nokia can do with this technology. I saw and heard of some Nokia innovations that should keep Nokia ahead of the competition for many years to come. Is it possible that Apple, HTC or Samsung could catch up in the near term? I don't think so as they are mostly using off the shelf parts with some tweaks. Apple might surprise us with something clever but probably not for another couple of iPhone iterations, but by then Nokia could be implementing their next camera innovation.

Exciting times!”

Nokia 808 (Proto) vs iPhone 4S

edit: a good side profile shot
http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7067/...7c8df107_b.jpg

an interview with Dr. Hubert Nasse of Carl Zeiss on the manufacturing of their lenses and a compare with their Nokia ones (mainly talks about the crappy Lumia 800.... -__-)

this guy must get his rocks off over lenses (some of his quotes are ;))

Nokia 808 PureView: Carl Zeiss science of making the perfect lens – Nokia Conversations : the official Nokia blog

of course heres the article quoted including pictures

Spoiler!

Quote:

Nokia 808 PureView: Carl Zeiss science of making the perfect lens

In the second of her two-part series, Karen Bartlett discovers how Carl Zeiss cameras provide Nokia with the highest quality lenses

Published by Karen Bartlett on March 5, 2012

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...eView-lens.jpg
OBERKOCHEN, GERMANY- The size of the Carl Zeiss lens for the new Nokia 808 PureView is smaller than a sugar cube, and the lens for a Nokia Lumia 800 is only slightly bigger than a pin – but both produce images as sharp as a ZEISS lens used on a professional photographic camera.

Dr Hubert Nasse is the Senior Scientist at Carl Zeiss Camera Lens Division, and tests lenses rigorously in the ZEISS labs. He loves lenses.

“I spend my working life testing lenses to the very highest scientific standards,” he says. “And of course that is how you accurately judge that a lens meets ZEISS specifications. But there is more to a lens than that – when you work with lenses every day, you appreciate their true craftsmanship. A ZEISS lens even has a certain smell – to me it smells professional.”

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...ens-test1-.jpg

Nasse fits the lens from a Nokia Lumia in the Carl Zeiss K8 measuring machine – which takes up most of the side of one room. He makes a few adjustments and the meters shoot up.

Then he fits a professional lens in the machine and adjusts the parameters,

“Now watch these meters,” The three meters, which measure different sharpness parameters, shoot up to over 90% over 80% and over 70%. The higher the number, the sharper the lens. This time the professional lens has registered as lower than for the Lumia lens.

Nasse sits back with satisfaction: “That’s how good these lenses for mobile phones are.”

So how can two lenses that appear so different produce the same image quality?

“The formal optical parameters are about the same,” Nasse says, but there are key differences.

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...ss-Nasse-1.jpg

This comparison between the absolute performance of a 2/50mm photographic lens for full-frame (24x36mm) sensors and a 2.4/8mm lens for a mobile phone shows that the lens for the mobile phone is sharper. However, an image taken with the big lens is better overall because the information is not compressed on such a small image area as it is on a mobile phone sensor.

Traditional camera lenses are made from a piece of glass called a ‘blank’, and then polished with a computer controlled precision tool. Lenses used in mobile phones are made from plastic and pressed in a mold.

“The only reason you can’t make a larger camera lens from plastic is the physical size. A larger plastic surface area expands and shrinks too much at different temperatures, but that doesn’t apply on a lens as small as one fitted in a mobile phone.”

Plastic gives mobile phone lenses one distinct advantage – a dimple.

Christian Bannert, the head of R&D at Carl Zeiss Camera Lens Division draws some diagrams on the whiteboard: “Glass can only be made in spherical shapes and to a certain extent pressed or polished to aspherical shape, but there are big problems with the way that it refracts light as soon as it comes to compact wide angle lenses like in camera phones,” Extreme aspheric lenses – that seem dimpled – are much better at refracting light in this case.

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...lay-edit-1.jpg

Back in the lab Hubert Nasse explains the other ways that camera lens and mobile lenses vary: “There are two main differences – the size of the sensor, and the distance between the sensor and the surface of the lens. In mobile phone optics the sensor is much closer to the lens.”

While phone designers want phones that are sleek and slim, optics designers crave space: “You need some volume, optical designers always want more space…making a lens in a narrow space is highly demanding.”

The Research and Development Project Manager for Mobile Phones, Oliver Schindelbeck, is watching the lens test. He agrees: “The struggle of the past years is making cameras smaller and smaller, but getting more megapixels and increasing the image quality.”

Decreasing the size of the camera and lens increases the sensitivity of the system, and makes production more challenging:

“We’ve made tremendous progress…now we have really good image quality with cameras below 7mm in height and that’s impressive.”

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...mia-lenses.jpg

Schindelbeck has worked on some notable milestones in the partnership between Nokia and Carl Zeiss:

“The first model we made with Nokia was the N90, and it was crucial in breaking the 2 megapixels mark. For Carl Zeiss this is the minimum sensor resolution in order to transport good Carl Zeiss image quality. Below that the resolution is too low to have benefits from a high quality lens”

As for the Nokia N8. Well, this is team that still goes into raptures over making the lens for the N8.

If there is one misunderstanding that they are all desperate to dispel, it is the myth of the megapixel. Fewer than 2 megapixels really affects image quality, but bigger than that is not necessarily better. Paper prints or PC-displays usually do not need a much higher resolution.

“Reducing the performance of a camera down to one number does not give you a true reflection of a camera,” says Oliver Schindelbeck. “It is wrong to say 8 megapixels are better than 5 megapixels. That tells you nothing about colour shading, or noise reduction – or any of the other things that really matter.” Human eyesight doesn’t focus just on resolution, he adds – it’s much more.

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...mia-lens-1.jpg

The team at Carl Zeiss works with Nokia to design and develop the lens, and then oversees the manufacturing process – monitoring the accuracy of the machines that make them and the final lenses in each type of phone. Strict accuracy is essential.

“We work together with Nokia from the first idea; we look at optical design, calculating the lens system, discussing the limits of lens itself and the specifications for quality. Then we qualify the suppliers to make sure they meet our necessary standards. We test the quality robustness and image processing of the first prototype – and then we test the final prototype and do any fine tuning.”

This is a team who take the Carl Zeiss brand seriously – at some points in the afternoon they try out their Nokia Lumia phones under the table, explaining that they take lots of images to see how they perform in low light and real life situations.

Oliver Schindelbeck says that it’s no secret that there are manufacturers all over the world who can cut and polish a lens, or make a component, but: “It’s only when we’ve taken all of those steps, and ensured our standard of quality at every stage of the process, that we are happy to say – this is a Carl Zeiss lens.”

http://cdn.conversations.nokia.com.s...sse-edit-2.jpg

Back in the lab Hubert Nasse demonstrates what making a perfect Carl Zeiss lens means when he hefts a large cinematography lens off the table. The walls of the corridor are lined with posters of famous films shot with this very piece of equipment – including Lord of the Rings, and The King’s Speech. He points out the cold feel of the aluminium body, the weight, and the deep engravings that mean measurements can be read almost in the dark. Next to it he holds up a Nokia PureView 808 lens – the size of a sugar cube. “It’s the knowledge transfer between these two lenses,” he sighs “Perfect synergy.”

In case you missed it, here’s Part One.

Photographs by Ian Dewsbury

Side note it looks like Nokia WONT release the 808 in North America as i previously noted -_-

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Oh and here's another sample picture from the 808

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