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Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > The John Norwich Riders Corner

The John Norwich Riders Corner In honour of our fellow moderator: John Norwich R.I.P. September 17th, 2014
Buy, sell, trade bikes and gear, set up bike rallies, meet discussions. #revscenebikes

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Old 03-21-2012, 06:06 PM   #51
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im interested as well, just a matter of money haha.
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Old 03-21-2012, 06:58 PM   #52
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u can put me on the (interested list). might purchase a bike over the weekend.
i think you should take the course first, then purchase a bike. get a sense of what bike would best fit you. it didn't change my initial decision when i went to PRS, but it definitely made more sense why the older guys don't get sportbikes to run around town :P
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:13 PM   #53
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I wouldn't mind a cruiser or a standard bike anymore.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:18 PM   #54
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i started on a '78 GS400. it was a great bike to learn on. i would recommend it to anyone. they can be found for cheap, are cheap to insure, and cheap to run. even parts are cheap.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:35 PM   #55
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ive been riding for 9 years now.. i started on a 125 then jumped too a 250 then sat my ass on a 600 rode that for awhile got power hungry took on a 1000, nice power but definitely not as good as a 600 for corners... i suggest a 250 for beginners even if u decide to take the course if u sit on a 400 or 600 to start which most ppl do cuz they dont like the rear tire.... try a 250 u will learn agility on the street. heres a video that might make u want a bike lol
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:20 PM   #56
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I think Alphamale might be selling his GS400. Was in tip top condition when I last saw it (a month or two ago.)

Might want to consider that bike to start and work your way up if you want to keep you expenses low and put that money towards proper riding gear. Insurance is cheap too!
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:50 PM   #57
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+1 gear is IMPORTANT. i would much rather spend 2g's less on a bike and use it towards good gear. after all it's your flesh wrapped around the bike, not the other way around =/
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:58 AM   #58
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Thanks for the advice guys. In that case I'll start considering 600s again. It's just every time I go on bike forums I see posts like these (and any time anyone disagrees, 50 more people flame the crap out of them):

Spoiler!


Now I don't see myself having any difficulties with ego - I was and am still prepared to get a 125cc bike despite the fact my friends have pledged to call me a pussy every passing day until I sell it off again . And I don't see myself having any shortage of respect for power / reigning in aggression - I've gone to enough track days and driving schools in BC and Ontario to see what it's like for people to push too hard (especially in their "invincible" Evo's and STI's) and smash into concrete walls or spin across curbs at triple digit speeds (this one guy in an M3 literally tore a rim right off its spokes). I've waited almost 5 years to make sure I was in the right state of mind before I decided I would go for the course this year.

But these guys are making it sound like a quarter millimeter turn of the throttle from idle at 6th gear would result in the bike flipping over backwards from the power. No amount of respect and humility + a week of riding school is going to save me from something like that. So are they all just exaggerating then, or do I really have something to worry about here?

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+1 gear is IMPORTANT. i would much rather spend 2g's less on a bike and use it towards good gear. after all it's your flesh wrapped around the bike, not the other way around =/
I should be okay on gear, I got in on that AYC sale and have these already:
-A* GP Plus leather jacket
-A* Apex leather pants
-A* GP Plus gloves
-A* S-MX5 boots

I have an Arai Quantum II as well, so all I'm missing now is a spine protector unless you guys can think of anything else. And yes, I plan to wear all of this stuff on every single ride even if it's 34 degrees out there. Even if I'm on a CBR125 and look like an idiot wearing all that gear. This is the end result of all the fear-mongering and scare-tactics on bcsportbikes and various other bike forums hahaha.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:18 AM   #59
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the gs400 was great fun to ride. very agile too. easy to maneuver at low speeds. great for your skills test =D
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:22 AM   #60
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Some people may not agree with me (which is fine) but my 2 cents on the post you quoted from the other forum. The 600cc+ veterans should definitely chime in on this one.

The post has its pros and cons. Most of which are exaggerated and blown out of proportion in my opinion.

1. Speed - Duh. A bike will be faster than a modified sports car. Physics wins. Always.

2. Brakes - No shit. This is a bike. Not a 3,500lb car. At PRS, they will teach you how to modulate brakes, both front and rear.

3. Throttle - There's truth to what he says but seriously, fuck that shit. Just take it easy when you get on the bike. Again, you will learn throttle and clutch control @ PRS. This one's a no-brainer. PRS guys - "Clutch and braaaaaake!"

4. Cost - Whatever. If you're prepared to buy a 600cc bike, you should be prepared for the insurance costs. The jump in price from a 400cc to a 600cc bike isn't that much more. Plus, you have the option of insuring through Beacon @ Cassells (I'm sure a lot of guys insure through them here.)

5. Responsiveness - Again, a no brainer. Most 600cc+ bikes have a proper suspension setup. This is a bike, for crying out loud. Handling etc. will come with experience and training/reading. Again, you'll learn this at PRS.

6. Learning - You'll likely learn on a Kawasaki Sherpa @ PRS which is I think 250cc? They're easy to learn on but when moving from that to a 600cc+ sport bike, there isn't much of a learning curve so this guy blew things out of proportion (again, in my opinion.)

7. Gear - Looks like you got that one pat down. That and you took advantage of the AYC sale. Never skimp on gear!

If you're not feeling comfortable with a 600cc bike to start, that's fine. You have other options. Like I said, Alphamale is selling his GS400. Fucking guy is riding a CBR600F4i now. It's a good beginner bike and good to learn on, a compromise between a 250cc and 600cc bike. Great if you're looking to develop your skills during your first season. Hope that helps.

Edit: As much as I love my cafe racer, I'd rock a 600cc sport bike any day.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:34 AM   #61
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I think as long as you guys think these people are blowing the throttle mapping thing out of proportion, I'm absolutely fine with considering a 600 or 750. I might still stick with something older like an F4 though so when I inevitably drop it at low speed it won't be so bad. There was a nice yellow one on Craigs the other day.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:36 AM   #62
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Most 600cc sport bikes are pretty tame until you get into the upper range of the power band. And if you ride in the city, really, you can easily cruise around town in 1st or 2nd gear. No joke.

If people think the riding position on sport bikes are aggressive, damn. Wait until you take a ride on my cafe racer.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:51 AM   #63
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So are they all just exaggerating then, or do I really have something to worry about here?
My answer is yes these guys are WAY over the top thats on the other extreme end of the spectrum.


Bcrdukes is spot on,

edit:

and the throttle argument is garbage LOL

under 7000rpms you probably can't even tell its a 600

thats how the power band is, and then it just shoots up from there.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:29 AM   #64
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oh the Sherpa's....did my test on that. so much different than my gixxer.
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:25 AM   #65
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dude i read that exact post before i started riding and it scared the shit out of me. there's some truth to what the guy says but he blows it way out of proportion.

for example, he says that if you grab the front brake on the streets you'll lock up the front and the bike will go down... that's just complete bullshit. for reference, the gixxer's brakes (pre 2011) aren't nearly as good as the ones on my car, so it's not like the damn thing will snap you off the bike as soon as you get on them. it's actually very forgiving, if not a little weak imo. the only way you'd lock the front up is if you suddenly slam on the brakes way too hard, if there's no heat in the front tire, if the tire pressure's too high or if you get on the front brakes mid corner. at PRS they teach you to modulate the brake pressure in order to maximize braking efficiency in a safe manner and it works. none of my friends have ever locked of the front brakes, and with proper training you can even control a front end skid.

the thing about throttle, how 1/16 of a turn will move the bike xxx km/h is actually true. it sounds scary as shit but it's really not. your hands have the most dexterity out of any part of your body, and can easily make tiny throttle inputs. there are certain techniques to hand and body positioning that pretty much eliminate the chances of accidentally snapping on the throttle, so it's really not nearly as scary as it sounds.

and like the rest of these guys have said, a 600's power band doesn't even start until after 8000rpm so you have tons of room to learn safely on. once you finish PRS, it will definitely give you a much better idea of what kind of bike you'd want to get but it'll also teach you to ride at your own pace, which in the end is still the most important factor to being safe.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:00 PM   #66
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i totally agree with you guys.. but the thing is a bike is not as forgiving as a car would be. we all know that when u buy a big bike to start off with ur just aiming at the look of the bike. if your saying ur not power hungry then why not start with a ninja 250r?? if u buy a 600 right off the bat you will not even be able to exceed its potential as a new rider my friend. once u have fully exceeded the limits of a 250 then it would make sense to get a 400 or 600. if money is a issue i would highly recommend 2008+ ninja 250RR they are great looking and have lots of power more then the usall 250cc. Being a safe rider will gain u more respect then having a big bike that u are not able to control yet. just to add the powerband usually hits around the 7g to 8g area but the thing is the big problem on a bike is lol sometimes the most dangerous thing is u dont even know how fast ur going which usually leads to accidents...
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:58 PM   #67
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i totally agree with you guys.. but the thing is a bike is not as forgiving as a car would be. we all know that when u buy a big bike to start off with ur just aiming at the look of the bike. if your saying ur not power hungry then why not start with a ninja 250r?? if u buy a 600 right off the bat you will not even be able to exceed its potential as a new rider my friend. once u have fully exceeded the limits of a 250 then it would make sense to get a 400 or 600. if money is a issue i would highly recommend 2008+ ninja 250RR they are great looking and have lots of power more then the usall 250cc. Being a safe rider will gain u more respect then having a big bike that u are not able to control yet. just to add the powerband usually hits around the 7g to 8g area but the thing is the big problem on a bike is lol sometimes the most dangerous thing is u dont even know how fast ur going which usually leads to accidents...
There's an acquaintance who's a friend of Charlie's I had trouble convincing to just get a 600 over a 250 a couple years ago. I explained to him he'd get bored of it within a season and it will save him the time and trouble from upgrading a short distance down the road. (He didn't take riding school). Low and behold, within the year he wanted to sell and upgrade.

Unless you track the darn thing, no one can exceed the limits of a 250 or use the full potential of a 600, especially on public roads.

Truth is you're probably going to get power hungry after you get used to the hum drum power band of the 250r lol. You'll know what I mean after finishing riding school. Its that empty feeling you get when the party's over and the music stops, and you're like.. "That's it??"
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:21 PM   #68
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very interested, will commit in april.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:33 PM   #69
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There's an acquaintance who's a friend of Charlie's I had trouble convincing to just get a 600 over a 250 a couple years ago. I explained to him he'd get bored of it within a season and it will save him the time and trouble from upgrading a short distance down the road. (He didn't take riding school). Low and behold, within the year he wanted to sell and upgrade.

Unless you track the darn thing, no one can exceed the limits of a 250 or use the full potential of a 600, especially on public roads.

Truth is you're probably going to get power hungry after you get used to the hum drum power band of the 250r lol. You'll know what I mean after finishing riding school. Its that empty feeling you get when the party's over and the music stops, and you're like.. "That's it??"
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i totally disagree with u on not being able to exceed the potential of a 250 or 600 lol if ur gonna be a granny on a bike might as well not get one lol . sounds like u have been riding for awhile?? cuz last time i checked experienced riders will corner a 250r at 180 lool whats the point of having the power if ur not gonna use it??? its like turboing ur car and just saying its a turbo??? soo are u a rider?? or just someone that wants to be flashy?? cuz if u wanna be flashy yeah go ahead start on a 600, guarantee u will drop ur bike. why would u even wanna put urself in a postion of having any chance of droping the bike. im just talkin out of experience. but hey i guess every ones diff.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:11 PM   #70
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in case you haven't noticed the new speeding laws get serious as soon as you hit 40 over the limit... which is 120 km/h on sea2sky, barely enough to get any lean angle on our bikes. so realistically none of us can take a 600 or even a 250 to the limits unless it's going to be at the track. that said i definitely think it's a great idea to start on a 250, but i sure as hell wouldn't tell anyone to gtfo if they wanted to start on a 600. it all depends on that person's maturity.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #71
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i totally disagree with u on not being able to exceed the potential of a 250 or 600 lol if ur gonna be a granny on a bike might as well not get one lol . sounds like u have been riding for awhile?? cuz last time i checked experienced riders will corner a 250r at 180 lool whats the point of having the power if ur not gonna use it??? its like turboing ur car and just saying its a turbo??? soo are u a rider?? or just someone that wants to be flashy?? cuz if u wanna be flashy yeah go ahead start on a 600, guarantee u will drop ur bike. why would u even wanna put urself in a postion of having any chance of droping the bike. im just talkin out of experience. but hey i guess every ones diff.
I think you heavily misinterpreted what I meant. I am trying to point out there's little to no where in the GVRD you can throw the bike into a corner at speeds near its thresholds, which kind of renders that argument obsolete. Unless he doesn't plan on hanging onto his license for long, its completely irrelevant for him.

I do believe in spirited riding, but there's really not all that many places to do it (to the extent in which you're implying) without getting GG'd in Vancouver. If you do spirited ride near the threshold of your bike, I can guarantee you, you won't be on the road for very long with the new road rules implemented.

I lost my license in 2009 for such shinanigans, I'm sure someone else on here can chime in as they had to endure that pain staking process with me.

I'm pretty sure its fair to say everyone here is speaking out of our own experience. I have not been riding long, this season will be my fourth, but I've yet to drop any of my bikes *touch wood* and I started on a k5 750
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:27 PM   #72
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The only time I was ever able to take full advantage of an motor's displacement was my Vespa 150. All 150cc going down the Knight Street Bridge to 5th Gear for the BCSB BBQ Meets. And I couldn't corner for shit because there was no room for it. I'm a gangster, right? Hah!

Otherwise, I'm with Charlie and the other on this one. Nobody will ever take full advantage of their bikes other than at the track. Even with a Ninja 250cc, on the highway, you're up there in the 10k+ RPM just to keep up with the flow of traffic. Already you're pushing hard on that motor. And on the S2S - sorry man. The consequences are too dire. Especially public humiliation on Revscene and BC Sport Bikes.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:11 PM   #73
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well hope u get on a bike soon then. it would be great for a RS cruise up to whisy.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:28 PM   #74
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Yeah there's my other concern.. I plan to avoid city riding at all costs, I've had enough close calls with people not even seeing my s2k. So I'm mainly wanting to ride out to the interior, sea2sky (slowly) etc. But it sounds like it'll be dangerous on a 125cc bike.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:21 AM   #75
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i wrote a bunch of stuff and idiot me pressed refresh...

anways, i'd get 250 minimum. i rode 125 back in asia, and it was okay city commuting and stuff, but above 70 seems rather slow in my opinion
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