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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #26
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It's going to depend on the judge. Most judges I find are fair when it comes to fighting tickets, if you're lucky you might get a judge that goes after the cop. I've witnessed a judge who drilled a cop in front of the court to the point were the cop was visually getting pissed and embarrassed because he made several errors on a ticket but wouldn't admit to it.

I think you do have an argument that might sway the judge in your favor.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:06 PM   #27
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Didnt read others replies, but this is a story of when i was at course and a guy had the same case as you.

The guy tried to fight the same ticket, had soo many good questions for the officer and thought of everything he could possibly say to try to get out of the ticket. The judge still took the cops side though, and the cop said how he can judge speed by eye since hes has been doing it for xx amount of years etc.

Whats worse is the cop was doing this over the phone in court! which i think is bullshit. Cant even show up to court... so the police officer had no physical evidence to present, just his word against the defendants and he still won. You have a good point tho with your case and the guy never asked that question directly (for documentation of calibration)... Good luck with the case!
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #28
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The bolded quotes are exactly what im going to say word for word in the court.
If you think something should be changed pm or comment on the thread!
The green font are questions i have!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...YyBX907PQ/edit

Marco911 hasnt replied me yet so if someone can chime in to tell me what and when (how will i know) when it is cross examination and how will know when is the time for closing arguments? Ive only been to court twice and everyone in the room just pled guilty both times .
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #29
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As I have said in my post before, manufacturers' recommendations maybe not be department procedures, that's probably why they don't keep a log of it. It seems the calibration requirement has more to do with US law enforcement than Canadians, and more with radar more than laser. You should look at the margin or error of miscalibration would be (I don't it will be significant since it is solid state electronics, they have to align the scope for seeing target more than the laser element). if it could be +/- 30kph then you are golden (I highly doubt it).. if it is +/- 5kph you are just wasting your time.

If you are so bent on winning, why don't you hire a lawyer? A lot of law firms would do these cases pro bono if you have a long standing relationship with them. They just send their articling student to stand in for you.

Oh to OP, if you think there is calibration data and officer is "jerking you around" you can always file a freedom of information request http://vancouver.ca/police/organizat...n-privacy.html

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Originally Posted by z3german View Post
The bolded quotes are exactly what im going to say word for word in the court.
If you think something should be changed pm or comment on the thread!
The green font are questions i have!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...YyBX907PQ/edit

Marco911 hasnt replied me yet so if someone can chime in to tell me what and when (how will i know) when it is cross examination and how will know when is the time for closing arguments? Ive only been to court twice and everyone in the room just pled guilty both times .

Last edited by godwin; 05-03-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboFC3S View Post
Didnt read others replies, but this is a story of when i was at course and a guy had the same case as you.

The guy tried to fight the same ticket, had soo many good questions for the officer and thought of everything he could possibly say to try to get out of the ticket. The judge still took the cops side though, and the cop said how he can judge speed by eye since hes has been doing it for xx amount of years etc.

Whats worse is the cop was doing this over the phone in court! which i think is bullshit. Cant even show up to court... so the police officer had no physical evidence to present, just his word against the defendants and he still won. You have a good point tho with your case and the guy never asked that question directly (for documentation of calibration)... Good luck with the case!
I believe traffic offenses are civil matters so verdicts are based on a balance of probabilities. This means that the officer only needed to convince a judge that his/her case is 51% likely to be true. Generally if there is no evidence on either side (i.e. officer's word against an individual), the testimony of the officer is considered to be more credible (less biased). Buddy here obviously did not have much of an "air of reality" to his argument/defense if this was the case. Usually if the officer does not show you pretty much get off so in this case the officer must have made arrangements with the court ahead of time to call in (and the court deemed it an acceptable way to give testimony). Keep in mind, the officer would have said the same thing anyways. My own experiences in court is that usually the only "evidence" presented by the officer is what they say based on their memory or notes written on the back of the ticket. This is after all not a criminal case where they will most likely need to be present.
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Last edited by bing; 05-03-2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:13 PM   #31
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I was in a similar situation in the past as well. However, I was let off easy because the cop did not show up.

If I were to dispute again (hopefully I won't), what you've done so far is pretty much the same as what I would do.

Your download/dropbox links don't work btw...not sure if that's just me though.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:39 AM   #32
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Was the cop perpendicular to you? Recently a professor won a rolling stop case with this paper. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/1204.0162v1.pdf
Error (404)
We can't find the page you're looking for.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:50 AM   #33
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Error (404)
We can't find the page you're looking for.
Weird it was working yesterday, updated with new link

http://db.tt/u4ahwJbX

Is there some sort of download max for dropbox public folders or something?
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:41 AM   #34
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i was recently in court, the chick who went to defend herself had the lowest ticket. she couldn't defend herself properly and got slapped with a 268(?) dollar fine. the way i see it, you got let off, and just plead guilty and ask for the fine to be reduce, the cop will usually ask you that.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:42 PM   #35
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i was recently in court, the chick who went to defend herself had the lowest ticket. she couldn't defend herself properly and got slapped with a 268(?) dollar fine. the way i see it, you got let off, and just plead guilty and ask for the fine to be reduce, the cop will usually ask you that.
I have some great advice from the members here and the fine difference is 198 vs 138 so its not the worse if i happen to lose. If it was 268 or something i would probably just plead guilty.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:56 PM   #36
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Court date was today and i went. I prepared a entire script with scenarios on what the officer might answer with and i feel my case was quite solid and was looking forward to seeing how it panned out. Semi-unfortunately the officer didnt even show up LOL! I will post, when i have more time, my entire script paper for those interested in what case i did have. Man i was looking forward for the learning experience but whatever! I am $196 less poor!
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:21 PM   #37
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Congratz mate,
In for the script!
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:24 PM   #38
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May I ask how long it took you to get your court date when you disputed?
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:42 PM   #39
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nice, also in for script as I've recently encountered a bullsh*t ticket myself
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:22 PM   #40
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They don't even need the gun to give you the ticket.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:13 PM   #41
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May I ask how long it took you to get your court date when you disputed?
This particular ticket was exactly a year. Got ticket March 26 2011, received court date notice on March 26 2012. I disputed the ticket within the week i got it, maybe even the day i got it (which happens to be my birthday )

K i will post my script and the evidence i used as a download link as .ODT (openoffice), PDF, .docx (microsoft word). I will post download links from drop box, if they stop working just let me know ill find a better hosting site to upload and repost link.

This is my script :
Spoiler!


Special thanks to Marco911 for taking the time to review my case and gather a lot of ideas that were a large part of the script itself.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:38 PM   #42
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Good effin stuff z3.

I got a similar ticket, at the Knight speed trap. Figured I had no case, since these guys are traffic cops, and I was pretty much the lone one going down the hill.

Wish I saw this thread. Thumbs up.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #43
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This will e a good read for my friend!
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #44
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Nicely done! You're efforts paid off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z3german View Post
This particular ticket was exactly a year. Got ticket March 26 2011, received court date notice on March 26 2012. I disputed the ticket within the week i got it, maybe even the day i got it (which happens to be my birthday )

K i will post my script and the evidence i used as a download link as .ODT (openoffice), PDF, .docx (microsoft word). I will post download links from drop box, if they stop working just let me know ill find a better hosting site to upload and repost link.

This is my script :
Spoiler!


Special thanks to Marco911 for taking the time to review my case and gather a lot of ideas that were a large part of the script itself.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #45
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As a general rule of thumb, I feel all minor traffic violations should be disputed. It keeps the officers in check to follow proper procedure. For example if you are ticketed for speeding and at the end of the officers shift they calibrate and find out its not calibrated, your ticket would be counted as no evidence when you go to court. But you would only know that the officer doesnt have evidence if you dispute! Once you pay you admit to guilt, which is why if you would never in a billion years get a refund after you pay for a ticket that has no evidence. It is completely within your rights to ask for disclosure and I strongly recomend doing so. Its under your charter of rights and freedom to a right to fair trial. Use it or you will lose it. If you ask for disclosure and the officer never sends it to you, in court NEVER accept the offer to go outside the court room and review the evidence, politely say that this does not give you sufficient enough time to make a case for yourself. Their only 2 options would be to post pone the court date, or to just let you off under No evidence. I feel Canada is becoming more and more a police run state (province? country?) where cops are getting away with a lot more than they should be, and may be slacking off on some proper procedures they should be doing. Our right to dispute and our right to a fair trial is one of the few things we can exercise to make sure officers do proper procedures, right down what they are suppose to right, be thorough in their notation, etc. Good luck in all your disputes and court action. Exercise your rights and freedoms while we all still can, who know when we will lose them.
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Even if you know you were speeding and the officer shows up, you can always talk to them prior to standing in front of the JP and try to get a lower charge.
Or you can go to the JP and ask for extended time and or a lower fine. But you will still have to pay the 15% victims surcharge.

And about asking for "disclosure" this is a very important step in your fight to dispute the ticket.
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