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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 05-31-2012, 10:26 PM   #1
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Excessive Speeding

2 weeks ago I was heading to work and going through richmond Steveston rd. I was only 2 minutes away from work when a cop driving from the other side of the road pulled a U-turn and pulled me over, asked for liscence etc.. then proceeded to tell me to get out of the car and call someone to pick me up. At this point I didnt even know what I did wrong.. i questioned him and he told me he was impounding my car for going 102km/hr for 7 days and a 368$ ticket for excessive speeding when the speed limit is 50.

Now before you guys question me about if i WAS speeding. I was NOT. iv had my drivers liscense since 16 and have never gotten a ticket for the past 8 years, this is not because of luck it is because I DO abide to the speeding limits..

The reason why I believed he "clocked me" at 102km/hr was because there were a couple other cars driving along side me which were going much faster than 50km/hr which was the speed limit. And he must have clocked them and pulled me over instead

I sent in my dispute just today, i am wondering how am i supposed to fight this in court?? its so unjust for me as i had lost 7 days worth of car use, impound fees,, etcetc.. for something I did not even do.

Iv never even been to court so i was wondering what happens when you guys dispute your ticket and try to fight it? what would be the best way to explain to the judge what had happend with them believing me..?
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:28 PM   #2
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:46 PM   #3
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If what you say is true, tell it to the justice. It's better than giving up your right to, just because you may not win.

Go down fighting. But don't actually fight... or go down... on anyone in court.

Read up on BC traffic court and attend a few before your trial to get an idea of how badly most people understand traffic court. They walk themselves right into the fire sometimes.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:05 PM   #4
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The problem with this story is that it sounds extremely unlikely.

You say you weren't speeding, so you were going 50 or 60 km/h

Cop clocks a guy at 102 km/h. It doesn't take an idiot to notice which car is going 40 - 50 km/h faster than the others. That's a HUGE difference. They don't clock a car without visually seeing the car at the same time.

So, unless there is more to this story, to tell a judge that the cop clocked car A at 50 km/h faster than car B but mistakenly pulled over car B sounds retarded. Sorry.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:15 PM   #5
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When its your word vs cops, they take the cops.

Read up on the thread about disputing tickets a while ago. The OP was planning to argue about the laser gun and the initial visual inspection.
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Old 05-31-2012, 11:27 PM   #6
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fucken sucks man, good luck with it. This is like arguing against the existence god, can't really prove whats true or false.:
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:53 AM   #7
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guess an investment in a dash cam would be a good idea =( where abouts on steveston did he pull you over? near the police station?-.-
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:56 AM   #8
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dispute it anyways, altho i dont think you can win it, the cop always talks to you (if he shows up) before going into the trial so just tell him you're sorry blah blah and try to get a "speeding ticket" instead of a "excessive speeding ticket"
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:14 AM   #9
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guess an investment in a dash cam would be a good idea =( where abouts on steveston did he pull you over? near the police station?-.-
has too be.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:37 AM   #10
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dispute it anyways, altho i dont think you can win it, the cop always talks to you (if he shows up) before going into the trial so just tell him you're sorry blah blah and try to get a "speeding ticket" instead of a "excessive speeding ticket"
I would strongly advise against this.

Admitting guilt before your hearing is not something you want to do especially when you want to win.

Explaining your story to the cop and negotiating/compromising, however, MAY be beneficial.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jordanwong View Post
when a cop driving from the other side of the road pulled a U-turn and pulled me over
Sounds like the cop was just driving around and saw your car speeding on the opposite lane and decide to pull you over...which means he probably didn't clock you with a laser or radar gun (typical ones the use for speedtrap)

a lot of cops cars have some sort of radar on their car to show the speed of the vehicle infront of them, but I would assume they are much less accurate then the laser/radar gun they use to catch speeder (why else would they need the laser/radar gun otherwise)

Did you ask him how did he clock you at 102km/h? If he didn't use a calibrated laser gun, I don't think it will be difficult to fight off the excessive speeding ticket with just a 2km/h margin of error
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:19 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ferra View Post
Sounds like the cop was just driving around and saw your car speeding on the opposite lane and decide to pull you over...which means he probably didn't clock you with a laser or radar gun (typical ones the use for speedtrap)

a lot of cops cars have some sort of radar on their car to show the speed of the vehicle infront of them, but I would assume they are much less accurate then the laser/radar gun they use to catch speeder (why else would they need the laser/radar gun otherwise)

Did you ask him how did he clock you at 102km/h? If he didn't use a calibrated laser gun, I don't think it will be difficult to fight off the excessive speeding ticket with just a 2km/h margin of error
OK where do I start?

Laser is only functional when used in a stationary position...not used when the Cop is moving. It takes distance measurements and has to be stopped to do that.

RADAR is used in stationary and moving mode...and operates mainly when targeting approaching vehicles...like the OPs'. It can also be used in parallel mode to target vehicles coming up behind and pulling away from the front. It is accurate to within 1 kmh, as is LASER. Both RADAR and LASER are tested before and after use to ensure accuracy. They are only sent away for "calibration" to the manufacturer if they are not working correctly. This malfunction would be instantly obvious to the trained operator and the instruments would not be used at all in the first place.

In case you have not noticed, the internet is not normally a reliable source of information unless you are looking for urban legends, dis-information, lies and "facts" to support your point of view.

The OP was going 52 kmh over the limit...that is 11 kms over the 40 kmh limit neede to charge for excessive speed...not 2 kmh. Basic excessive is 41 to 60 k over, big time excessive is more than 61 kmh over. A VT for 52 kmh over the limit would be the appropriate charge
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:20 AM   #13
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IF what he was saying is true, it is quite possible that the officer confused the speeding vehicles with the OP's. It's not the first time I've heard of vehicle confusion on the scanner, including drivers being let go because one officer wasn't sure the right car was stopped.


Welcome to BC where you get what you deserve, even if you don't deserve it. There's little point in fighting this, no amount of fighting will undo the loss of your vehicle for 7 days. That's also why I use a dashcam, but it's not like the officer will review it roadside before calling for a tow truck.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:42 AM   #14
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OK where do I start?

Laser is only functional when used in a stationary position...not used when the Cop is moving. It takes distance measurements and has to be stopped to do that.

RADAR is used in stationary and moving mode...and operates mainly when targeting approaching vehicles...like the OPs'. It can also be used in parallel mode to target vehicles coming up behind and pulling away from the front. It is accurate to within 1 kmh, as is LASER. Both RADAR and LASER are tested before and after use to ensure accuracy. They are only sent away for "calibration" to the manufacturer if they are not working correctly. This malfunction would be instantly obvious to the trained operator and the instruments would not be used at all in the first place.

In case you have not noticed, the internet is not normally a reliable source of information unless you are looking for urban legends, dis-information, lies and "facts" to support your point of view.

The OP was going 52 kmh over the limit...that is 11 kms over the 40 kmh limit neede to charge for excessive speed...not 2 kmh. Basic excessive is 41 to 60 k over, big time excessive is more than 61 kmh over. A VT for 52 kmh over the limit would be the appropriate charge
.
I live in Ontario, excessive here is 50 and over, my bad

And I was more referring to the cop likely didn't use a handheld operated radar that locks on to a specific vehicle, but the mobile onboard radar which constantly shows the speed of the vehicles around the area, but does not tell you which particular vehicle the speed is coming from when there are more than one
(I will apologize in advance if this is wrong and the the onboard radar can actually tell which particular vehicle the speed reading was coming from.)

and I'd have to say your post sound rather hostile
we're just sharing information here...
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #15
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Trying to not be hostile...;0...hand held RADAR is not used in a moving PC..fixed mount RADAR is. RADAR does not 'lock on' to a target. The beam is emitted when it is taken off standby mode. At that point target speed readings are displayed. As part of the target's tracking history a visual speed estimation is done by the operator to see if the displayed speed is correct and consistant in both visual estimation and displayed target speed.

If you have a group of 3 vehicles heading towards you and 2 are noticably faster than the others a trained operator would not select the slowest of the three and attribute the 52kmh over the limit to the slowest vehicle. Even an untrained person would not pick the slowest car and assume it was the fastest. The doppler audio shift as the beam hit the vehicles allows you to 'hear' the beam hit each car. The Radar reacts to the strongest signal which would come from either the fastest or closest vehicle...your vehicle being passed by faster and closer cars would exclude you from being the strongest unless you were driving a B Train loaded semi and they were in Smart cars.
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:37 PM   #16
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Well I will fight it, my friend also told me that there might be extra charges ontop if the judge accuses me of being guilty? It is our right to prove our selves in court so I don't know why they would lay extra charges for protecting ourself by going to court to seek justice. I mean an "accused" criminal would not have extra "5 year sentence" added to a "20 year sentence" just because he is fighting for his justice in court.

Honestly.. I think the cop was being biased as I drive a 240sx and he must have automatically thought I was the reckless driver out of the group of cars that had passed by him. This is so ridiculous because I had lost an opportunity at work to move up because of this one mix up...
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:59 PM   #17
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Jordanwong, you don't get it. And I mean that nicely. As long as the police are writing excessive speeding tickets and can say "we removed x number of excessive speeders from the road" it doesn't matter if you got mixed up or not - you're simply a statistic that justifies their continued application of these penalties.

I'm curious to know what zulutango's thoughts are on my experience listening to multi-member enforcement operations getting vehicle descriptions mixed up over the radio...
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:44 PM   #18
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JW, basically it comes down to 2 things here. A) win or lose, you will not get any of your money back that was for the impoundment of your car for 7 days.
B) fighting that excessive speeding ticket, if the officer shows up then you will have to stand in front of the JP and tell your side of the story and hope that it will cast some doubt against the officer's claim that you were doing 102 km/h.

Like what other people have stated, if you were going 50 km/h, there is a huge obvious difference in a car doing 102 km/h and you doing the speed limit. Just saying you were doing 50 km/h will not be enough evidence. If you have video footage of the other cars zooming past you and then you getting pulled over, then that might be enough to win.
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #19
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Trying to not be hostile...;0...hand held RADAR is not used in a moving PC..fixed mount RADAR is. RADAR does not 'lock on' to a target. The beam is emitted when it is taken off standby mode. At that point target speed readings are displayed. As part of the target's tracking history a visual speed estimation is done by the operator to see if the displayed speed is correct and consistant in both visual estimation and displayed target speed.

If you have a group of 3 vehicles heading towards you and 2 are noticably faster than the others a trained operator would not select the slowest of the three and attribute the 52kmh over the limit to the slowest vehicle. Even an untrained person would not pick the slowest car and assume it was the fastest. The doppler audio shift as the beam hit the vehicles allows you to 'hear' the beam hit each car. The Radar reacts to the strongest signal which would come from either the fastest or closest vehicle...your vehicle being passed by faster and closer cars would exclude you from being the strongest unless you were driving a B Train loaded semi and they were in Smart cars.
Out of curiosity, how long does it take for the officer to set up the radar gun while the vehicle is in motion before the gun can be used to obtain a speed reading?
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:18 PM   #20
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OP, what lane you were in and what lane were the other two cars in? What types of cars were the other two? What colour are the three cars?
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:50 PM   #21
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OK where do I start?

Laser is only functional when used in a stationary position...not used when the Cop is moving. It takes distance measurements and has to be stopped to do that.

RADAR is used in stationary and moving mode...and operates mainly when targeting approaching vehicles...like the OPs'. It can also be used in parallel mode to target vehicles coming up behind and pulling away from the front. It is accurate to within 1 kmh, as is LASER. Both RADAR and LASER are tested before and after use to ensure accuracy. They are only sent away for "calibration" to the manufacturer if they are not working correctly. This malfunction would be instantly obvious to the trained operator and the instruments would not be used at all in the first place.

In case you have not noticed, the internet is not normally a reliable source of information unless you are looking for urban legends, dis-information, lies and "facts" to support your point of view.

The OP was going 52 kmh over the limit...that is 11 kms over the 40 kmh limit neede to charge for excessive speed...not 2 kmh. Basic excessive is 41 to 60 k over, big time excessive is more than 61 kmh over. A VT for 52 kmh over the limit would be the appropriate charge
.
To anyone here that thinks the OP is full of it, I would like to contest, because this happened to me before.

This was about 5.5 years ago, I was driving along Steveston, around the same area the OP was pulled over.

It was approx 1am, and i'm about 3 blocks from my house. I was travelling about 45kph (I was actually on the phone. LOL)

I see a PC across the street. At that time, there was no CS there. and the streets were clear.

Followed me for 3 blocks, almost at my house. Pulls me over and gave me the biggest shit attitude I've ever seen. I was driving a modified car, but it wasn't overly loud, and at that time I've had NOTHING on my record.

APPARENTLY I WAS GOING 120KPH. She said she clocked me from across the street.

SERIOUSLY. How the hell you fuck that up?!

I dispute, obviously.

At court date, outside of the room, she stated "You better not try to get out of this one or i'll make sure I have your car for what you did. You and your kind are always driving around like idiots". I'm Asian.

I told her "sure. And if I win....well....I have your badge number"

We walk in, first thing outta her mouth: "dropping the charges due to lack of evidence"

So seriously, not that I have a hate for PO's or anything, but some REALLY should not be one. And they screw up, like everyone else.

OP: If you REALLY didn't do anything wrong, dispute it. I'd tell the bloody news about it. Go to supreme court with it, sue them for it. If I were innocent, I'd make it the biggest shitstorm I possibly can.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:05 PM   #22
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And they screw up, like everyone else.
Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't result in the loss of a car for 7 days. Isn't this why we have, er.. had a court system?
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:09 PM   #23
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^i don't speed, and I haven't been in this situation since the new law passed.

Anyone can clarify?

OP: Run a dash cam. I do. It's saved me a million times. It costs like....$50-75 for a basic one.
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Old 06-01-2012, 07:19 PM   #24
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I'd invest in one that has a GPS receiver for speed display. They're not 100% accurate, I think mine is accurate to within 5kph, but still helpful.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:37 PM   #25
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I understand where your coming from sebbery, it seems like a lost cause, but I will fight it regardless as i feel i am in the right and I have nothing to lose. I have a feeling the judge will obviously take the cops side even if the has "evidence" that wasnt correct.

Just curious, how many of you RSers have took a charge to court and has had the cop show up and you win the case?
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