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Old 06-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #1
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Dieting properly, general question, hopefully not beat to death

Hey guys,

So I have been into fitness for almost 8 years and have always considered health an important part of my life.

I have always been a thick guy, I'm 6'5 and weight about 235 lbs. Ive always worked out and always have had a tiny bit of chub. Ive sort of gotten a bit too 'comfortable' with my gf over the last 2.5 years and have invested thousands of dollars into my stomach chub.

I am wanting to get rid of it, for good. I have always had this stupid theory that if I 'feel' hungry, and my stomach is gurgling for food, that my body will feed on my muscle rather than my fat, is this true?

I know the importance of dieting and eating healthy, but when I do try it, my stomach always feels like it needs 'more' and I always think its going to chew away at my muscle, rather than my fat.

Basically, I got this idea from reading up on starvation and the fact that 'muscles are food' and 'body fat is heat', so the body will naturally eat up all the muscle.

Is this complete bs? I have trouble finding the fine line between 'eating enough to avoid body hunger' and 'eating too much and storing fat'.

I eat fairly healthy. I am a bit heavy on cheese and sour cream when I make tacos, but I am eating vegetables, avoiding empty carbs (hashbrowns, donuts, etc) and crap like that.

I think my main problem is starchy carbs - bread, pasta, flours. I havent cut them out completely since I always feel the 'starvation' feeling if I eat a salad and no pasta/bread/rice. I am worried I will end up muscle-less with tons of fat if I eat small meals and constantly feel hungry

I also have many many small snacks throughout the day, rather than 2 big meals. I eat breakfast every day and avoid midnight snacks since I get nightmares :P

Thanks guys.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #2
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Count your calories for a week to see what you are really eating. I've used Daily Burn in the past. Many products are in the inventory which makes it easy to track. You'd be surprised as to how much your eating.

You have to realize, to loose weight you are going to have to be in a caloric deficit. Short form. You will be hungry. Your theory on muscle being burned is partially correct. To correct this, continue strength training and eat enough protein during your diet. The fat will go, you will be happy, your gf will be happier.

Good luck.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:05 AM   #3
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Count your calories for a week to see what you are really eating. I've used Daily Burn in the past. Many products are in the inventory which makes it easy to track. You'd be surprised as to how much your eating.

You have to realize, to loose weight you are going to have to be in a caloric deficit. Short form. You will be hungry. Your theory on muscle being burned is partially correct. To correct this, continue strength training and eat enough protein during your diet. The fat will go, you will be happy, your gf will be happier.

Good luck.
Hmm, so I know this is over-simplified and the numbers may vary, but what you are saying:

Cutting calories and feeling hungry =

20% of energy the body needs comes from muscle
80% of energy the body needs comes from fat

To counter, str training and protein, counters roughly 15%, so I will lose:

5% muscle mass
80% fat mass

Like I said, the numbers are fudge, but this is the concept?

Thanks for the quick response
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:43 AM   #4
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Your body is a lying bastard. It wants you to be fat and it will tell you to eat even when you don't need to. Don't listen to it. Listen to me instead.

1. Cut out the starchy carbs completely and you won't feel hungry all the time. Eating carbs is a slippery slope. The more crappy carbs you eat the more cravings you will get.
2. Eat more fat. Seriously. If you're not eating carbs then a lean piece of chicken breast isn't going to cut it. Eat fattier cuts of meat and more nuts and avocados.
3. Be careful to not wait until you're starving to eat. You will either over eat or be left unsatisfied.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #5
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Your body is a lying bastard. It wants you to be fat and it will tell you to eat even when you don't need to. Don't listen to it. Listen to me instead.

1. Cut out the starchy carbs completely and you won't feel hungry all the time. Eating carbs is a slippery slope. The more crappy carbs you eat the more cravings you will get.
2. Eat more fat. Seriously. If you're not eating carbs then a lean piece of chicken breast isn't going to cut it. Eat fattier cuts of meat and more nuts and avocados.
3. Be careful to not wait until you're starving to eat. You will either over eat or be left unsatisfied.
Wow, first I have to say, I like your style.

I have tried to cut it down to maybe 1 serving max of starchy stuff. I avoid white bread and usually eat rye/sourdough, I will be eating alfredo tonight but I swear its my last offense .....

I have been relying on trail mix to keep me alive at work. I usually have 2-3 handfulls every few hours. I also started eating avocados about 3 months ago and love them to death. I have been eating lean ground beef instead of EXTRA-LEAN or regular, would you recommend regular? I never eat lean chicken breast since its low in fat as-is.

And for #3, I have been pretty good at doing that. I rarely go 4+ hours without eating a little snack.

Thanks for the tips and the for-real-LOL at work!
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:07 PM   #6
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50 gram carbs only from veggies and fruits
All the good fat you can eat and all the meat you can eat
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:32 PM   #7
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I will be eating alfredo tonight but I swear its my last offense .....
Just a little reminder that if you always start tomorrow, you'll never get anything done.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:48 PM   #8
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Just a little reminder that if you always start tomorrow, you'll never get anything done.
Although there is not much I can do other than have a very small portion since I invited multiple friends/family over for dinner tonight, and I am le chef.

What will they think of me if I don't eat my own food.... its not poison



EDIT: Thanks for the motivational kick. I got another question.

If I am feeling hungry and I have a candy bar or a nutri-grain beside me. Is it more beneficial to just drink a glass of water to avoid the snack (thus increasing my spacing between meals, increasing muscle loss, storing fat, encouraging mini-starvation) or eat the snack (decreasing meal spacing, promoting metabolic increase)

Im in such a dillemma, thanks guys.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #9
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Although there is not much I can do other than have a very small portion since I invited multiple friends/family over for dinner tonight, and I am le chef.

What will they think of me if I don't eat my own food.... its not poison



EDIT: Thanks for the motivational kick. I got another question.

If I am feeling hungry and I have a candy bar or a nutri-grain beside me. Is it more beneficial to just drink a glass of water to avoid the snack (thus increasing my spacing between meals, increasing muscle loss, storing fat, encouraging mini-starvation) or eat the snack (decreasing meal spacing, promoting metabolic increase)

Im in such a dillemma, thanks guys.
Don't buy those bars. Just eat something like an apple, or chicken breast..

I learned the hardway after many years of those bars, nuts, fruits, etc. Count your calories and count your carbs.

Now when I'm hungry, I'll drink a protein shake if its not meal time.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:59 PM   #10
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If I am feeling hungry and I have a candy bar or a nutri-grain beside me. Is it more beneficial to just drink a glass of water to avoid the snack (thus increasing my spacing between meals, increasing muscle loss, storing fat, encouraging mini-starvation) or eat the snack (decreasing meal spacing, promoting metabolic increase)

Im in such a dillemma, thanks guys.
The benefits of eating many small meals has been grossly exaggerated. At the end of the day it matters little how often you ate. What is important is what and how much you ate. So yeah, skip the candy bar.

You're over thinking things. Just follow Halo's advice. =)
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:06 PM   #11
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I can write essays on this topic but for the purpose of this forum, I'll break it down to concise and general point formation:

- Losing weight is a caloric game and to win, you must be at a deficit (as mentioned above)
- "If the food is man-made, spit it out", good rule of thumb from some guy; you don't want to be delving into artificial sweeteners and all that junk
- You can win at the caloric game by these two methods combined:
1. Be smart about the foods you ingest, when you ingest, how much you ingest, and how often you ingest
2. I cannot stress how important this one is: CARDIO!

I have been fit pretty much all my life but it is only attributable to my strict dietary regiment composed of 7 meals throughout the day and I supplement that by jogging 10km every night (though I prefer mornings but my schedule doesn't permit it). The latter is not for everyone and can be seen as excessive but I enjoy jogging and I especially enjoy keeping my body fat percentage extremely low.

Just remember that the physical aspect of losing weight (e.g. consistent grocery shopping, preparing meals, exercising, etc.) is not hard at all, anyone can lose weight, rather losing weight is a greater mental or psychological struggle. Prepare a tailored dietary and exercise regiment and commit to it! If you fall off the wagon (or is it on the wagon? lol), which you may, that is okay, it is a test of diligence and dedication, hop right back on!


P.S. I hope I didn't make it sound like healthy dieting is a terrible and excruciating thing, well actually it may be at first as your body gets used to it (prepare for those hunger pangs from time to time). Me being a guy who absolutely loves food, I try to make it fun and create incentives for myself. From 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. (my working hours) I eat almost too healthily but for dinner I get to fulfill my carb quota for the day and perhaps have something a bit more flavorful. Even with this, I am still meeting my caloric needs and end up being much under after my exercise. After many trials and errors with dietary plans, I can tell you that life isn't worth living if you restrict yourself too stringently. Make realistic goals for yourself!

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Old 06-05-2012, 03:53 PM   #12
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50 gram carbs only from veggies and fruits
All the good fat you can eat and all the meat you can eat
/ thread
Can you please elaborate on this? I have a feeling this is very trivial to you, so I'd like you to be a bit more descriptive.

Are you saying that you eat absolutely zero carbs other than fruits and veggies? And you eat endless amounts of g-Fat and Meat?

Just to make sure, for those of you who said it doesn't matter WHEN you eat, if I delay all my snacks and junk food and just have a good dinner later (even though I'm pretty hungry), this won't get stored as fat or slow down my metabolism? I find it hard to believe that avoiding this little tasty nutri-grain bar beside me will benefit me. I'm reading way too many un-educated source-less women's blogs about health .....




EDIT: For everyone else, I really appreciate what you have said. I am pretty hungry and have two nutri-grain bars right beside me. At 130 calories (each bite-size, literally), I could swallow up 260 calories in less than 2 minutes, but I will wait until dinner time. Thanks a lot guys! I will try going hungry for a month and see if I notice any difference.
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Old 06-05-2012, 03:58 PM   #13
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You need to learn to choose what you eat, when you eat, and how much you eat.

For me, I snack on a few apricots, cashews, almonds, walnuts - all unsalted. Half an avacado, some Wasa crisps or Ryvita with an olive spread or tapanade is great too. Switch from rye/sourdough to a whole grain bread (not multi grain.) I usually buy breads from Silver Hills bakery at Costco.

Drop the nutri-grain bars. Those do more harm than good. Instead, make your own. That and drink more water. Much more water. A few posts up mention avoiding man-made foods - listen to this and take it to heart. Look at your ingredient list when you go shopping. If you can't pronounce it or you don't know WTF it is - avoid it. You want wholesome foods and by that, stuff like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins like beef or chicken breast. The carbs hal0g0dv2 is referring to are slow-digesting carbs that are good for you. Fruits and veggies fall into that category. Somebody mentioned this in another thread but when you go to the grocery store, the best foods are usually found at the perimeter of the store - meats, veggies, seafood, breads. Anything from the aisles are things you want to avoid.
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:04 PM   #14
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Losing weight doesn't mean you have to be constantly hungry. Slow and steady is the key. Google a formula to calculate the amount of maintenance calories someone your size, at your activity level needs. Eat a couple hundred calories less than that. Oh and make sure you are getting those calories through the right ratio of protein, fat, and carbs.

Good luck!
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:06 PM   #15
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sebTeggy - use this: Calorie Calculator - Daily Caloric Needs
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:39 PM   #16
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You need to learn to choose what you eat, when you eat, and how much you eat.

For me, I snack on a few apricots, cashews, almonds, walnuts - all unsalted. Half an avacado, some Wasa crisps or Ryvita with an olive spread or tapanade is great too. Switch from rye/sourdough to a whole grain bread (not multi grain.) I usually buy breads from Silver Hills bakery at Costco.

Drop the nutri-grain bars. Those do more harm than good. Instead, make your own. That and drink more water. Much more water. A few posts up mention avoiding man-made foods - listen to this and take it to heart. Look at your ingredient list when you go shopping. If you can't pronounce it or you don't know WTF it is - avoid it. You want wholesome foods and by that, stuff like fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins like beef or chicken breast. The carbs hal0g0dv2 is referring to are slow-digesting carbs that are good for you. Fruits and veggies fall into that category. Somebody mentioned this in another thread but when you go to the grocery store, the best foods are usually found at the perimeter of the store - meats, veggies, seafood, breads. Anything from the aisles are things you want to avoid.
Thanks for the tips. I read up on 'whole wheat' hoax. There really are a lot of ways to disguise white bread as 'multigrain' or 'enriched whole wheat' etc etc.

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Losing weight doesn't mean you have to be constantly hungry. Slow and steady is the key. Google a formula to calculate the amount of maintenance calories someone your size, at your activity level needs. Eat a couple hundred calories less than that. Oh and make sure you are getting those calories through the right ratio of protein, fat, and carbs.

Good luck!
Thanks man. I try to eat a lot of fruit, nuts, meat every day. I do drink wine with my meals, sometimes two glasses.

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Wow, so at 6'5, 235, @ 23 Y/o I should be at 2998 Calories a day for maintenance with 3 days a week of exercise.

2400 for weight loss, and 1880 for extreme weight loss (aka death.....)

Looks like my paranoia for losing muscle wont kick in unless Im below 600 calories for the whole day haha, Im too worried I guess.

I find it sort of friggin ridiculous that two of these 'nutri-grain' bars would make up roughly 10% of my daily intake.



And wow, this is messed up.

I remember staying away from nutri-grains for years since I thought they were shit. There is a stamp on them that says '8g of whole grains' sorrounded by little wheat drawings. I caved in very easily after many years of staying away from them, thinking 'well looks like all companies are taking that extra step to be a bit more healthy these days'

NOPE!

I am reading the ingredient list and it says

'wheat flour.....whole wheat flour.... whole oats'


This is all the BAD FAKE SHIT!!! After much reading, the only ingredients worthy of being good for you are

'whole grain wheat' and 'whole grain oats'

Those bastards......
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #17
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Don't let the "intense exercise" part scare you. It's not death. For me, I hop onto my bicycle and ride for an hour. I do interval training at home when it's raining cats and dogs. Otherwise, I'm on the road riding for an hour, even if it's a casual ride around the seawall or a bike trail. Heck, I even started to ride my bike to work. At first, it was a grueling ride going up some steep hills. It took me 40 minutes but now, I'm down to 25.
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:06 PM   #18
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1) Starvation mode is nonsense. It comes because of a single study where a bunch of people were fed a diet of 1560 calories for 24 weeks. If you starve yourself for 6 month, then yes, your metabolism is going to get all sorts of fucked up.

Minnesota Starvation Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) Your brain is fucking with you You need to distinguish between actual hunger and conditioned hunger. Ever notice that you are hungry at approximately the same times each day? That's ghrelin being a stupid little fucker and messing with your mind. Ignore it by drinking some water.

3) Eat protein In a caloric deficit, keep your protein intake to 1g/lb body weight. This has muscle sparing effects. As an added bonus, protein has thermogenic effects (some people think it should count as ~3.7ish cal/g instead of 4) and is the most satieting thing you can eat. The next most satieting thing you can eat is fat.

4) Lift heavy If you want to get into low body fat, then lift heavy weights. Again, muscle sparing. Cardio is fine, but lifting is more effective.

5) Eat big meals If you don't like eating small meals, then dont. Eat 2 big meals a day instead.

Meal frequency and energy balance. [Br J Nutr. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

Skip the trail mix. It's full of calories and sugar. 2-3 handfuls every few hours adds up to a lot of calories.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:58 PM   #19
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people are going to throw 20 diff things and what works from then and study's and blah blah,
you really have to narrow it down to what works for your body when you diet or try to eat healthy. If you are looking to lose that belly fat that has been on there forever you have to be really really good at watching your diet, its been there for years so it is not going all the sudden disappear with some cardio.
when i diet it is a little different from most people since i am a "bodybuilder" dieting is allot easier for me cause i know i have to be strict.

Once you get into the groove it becomes a habit and it will become allot easier to do.
When i said 50 grams of carbs i mean, all i eat for carbs is veggies and fruits and nuts for carb sources, and i eat all the meat i can and fat, I DO NOT COUNT CALORIES, never have and i dont see the point
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #20
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just stop eatting shit, eat alot of good shit and workout hard.

thats what I do, and it worked out great for me in the past and now.
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Old 06-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #21
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^+1

I used to eat out A LOT, but I have cut back tremendously. I eat at home and I am lucky enough to have someone cook for me.. I know it's a lot harder to cook for yourself if you are living on your own, but trust me eating at home is a lot healthier and you save money. Buy healthier foods and try to avoid packaged and microwavable dinners or something. Combine that with hard workouts you will eventually see/notice a difference.

It's not the best/hardcore advice compared to others have mentioned but doing this alone puts you ahead of most people (especially teens to young adults) in America/Canada in my opinion.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:26 AM   #22
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Can someone please help me confirm the calories for the following?

1 whole skinless chicken breast - my calc is 4 oz is 120 calories
cooked in 2 tblspn canola oil is 200 calories
i baked potato (wedges) 160 calories

tortilla wrap - 60 calories
egg whites - ???? 25 calories/3tblspn??
spinach - ???
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:21 AM   #23
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Forget the words calories and portions. "Calories in, calories out" is nonsense, same with portions - they will only make you hungry.

Eat as much veggies, meat, and beans you want till you're full. Don't eat any refined carbs (grains including rice and wheat, soda, snacks like candy or chips, etc.), don't drink any fruit juice or dairy and eat very little amounts of fruits. Drink tons of water. Take 1 day off a week and eat WHATEVER you like on that day so you don't feel too restricted, or get cravings for cakes or whatever.
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Old 06-06-2012, 02:28 AM   #24
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ok, what about potatoes... cuz i just bought a huge sack of them...
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7seven: I really can't stand all these idiots who hit the gym now just because they watched 300 and want to be like a spartan. Case in point, this skinny guy comes into the gym the other day, must have only weighed ~ 140lbs, loads on 2 plates on the bench rack, mutters to himself, for sparta, unracks the barbell and proceeds to drop it directly on his chest.
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:49 AM   #25
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ok, what about potatoes... cuz i just bought a huge sack of them...
Should of bought sweet potatoes
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