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Old 12-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #4076
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LOTS of Twitter chatter about the announcement tomorrow. #podium
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:02 PM   #4077
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Originally Posted by kristianhay View Post


Get on that!
Yea

I should start playing again even if it's just drop in roller hockey or at least just shooting around down at QE Park or something. I used to play like every day up until the end of HS sigh.

So did anyone go down to play with RK17 and company today?
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:48 PM   #4078
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NHL proposal from todays negotiations

Quote:
The league's offer Wednesday night offered a raise in money devoted to the 'make-whole' provision. The number in the latest offer jumped to $300 million, up from $211 million in the league's previous offer. The players had previously asked for $389 million, making the owners' latest offer an exact middle ground between the previous offer and the players' demands.

The proposal submitted was for a 10-year term for the next CBA, with rules governing unrestricted free agency and salary arbitration to remain unchanged from last season. The league did not budge on its request for a five-year term limit on player contracts and held firm to a maximum year-to-year salary variance of five per cent.

The league's offer did, however, offer an exception on contract lengths for the re-signing of free agents. Teams would be allowed to re-sign their own free agents to contracts up to seven years in duration.
cliffs:
3 big concessions by the league:
-upping the 'make whole' to dead smack in the middle of the NHL and PA's previous proposals. ($300m concession from early talks)
-keep the current CBA rules for free agency and arbitration as opposed to the previous offer. (i believe what the PA was seeking)
-introducing a clause where teams can resign their own free agents to up to 7 year contracts ( up from 5 years in previous proposals)

-keeping 5 year max contract length and year to year variance of 5% is reasonable imo. contracts longer than this is pure greed. and it makes contracts easier to sign, and it actually gives the players a chance to make MORE money in the next contract.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:51 PM   #4079
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Another update from today's meeting which just wrapped 1am eastern time

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NHL AND NHLPA WRAP SECOND STRAIGHT DAY OF LENGTHY TALKS

Another marathon session of collective bargaining agreement negotiations has wrapped in New York.

The NHL Players' Association submitted another proposal for the NHL to evaluate Wednesday while the league countered on key issues later in the day. The two sides spent hours at the bargaining table with talks ending shortly before 1am local time.

Addressing the media just before 1:30 am local time, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly was brief in his assessment of the day's talks.

He described the talks as "good, candid dialogue" but mentioned that critical issues remain unresolved between the two parties. He stated that he expected those issues to be addressed during Thursday's negotiations.

The league's offer Wednesday night offered a raise in money devoted to the 'make-whole' provision. The number in the latest offer jumped to $300 million, up from $211 million in the league's previous offer. The players had previously asked for $389 million, making the owners' latest offer an exact middle ground between the previous offer and the players' demands. However, of that proposed $300 million only $250 million would go towards a 'make-whole' provision with the remaining $50 million going towards pension funding that would not come out of the players' share.

The proposal submitted was for a 10-year term for the next CBA with an opt-out clause after eight years. The rules governing unrestricted free agency and salary arbitration would remain unchanged from last season. The league did not budge on its request for a five-year term limit on player contracts and held firm to a maximum year-to-year salary variance of five per cent.

The league's offer did, however, offer an exception on contract lengths for the re-signing of free agents. Teams would be allowed to re-sign their own free agents to contracts up to seven years in duration.

Reports indicate that negotiations almost fell apart in the middle of the evening amid frustrations that momentum had not carried over from Tuesday's discussions. However, both sides returned to the table after a brief hiatus and continued negotiating into the early morning.

A tight-lipped Gary Bettman briefly addressed the media on earlier in the afternoon as the league and the union prepared for another bargaining session to come up with a collective bargaining agreement and save the 2012-13 season.

"We are pleased with the process that is ongoing and out of respect for the process, I'm not going to take any questions," the NHL commissioner told reporters.

The NHLPA will meet internally on Thursday morning with both sides expected to resume talks at some point later in the day.

According to sources, the owners discussed a possible season that would span 50-plus games. There had been talk of a 60-game schedule in the event of a labour settlement, but the feeling among the group was that it would be too ambitious at this stage.

In keeping with Tuesday's arrangements, a grouping of six NHL owners and 18 players met through the afternoon and into the night on without either Bettman or union chief Donald Fehr in attendance.

"I appreciate the efforts of the players, in particular we had 18 players in there (Tuesday) and six of our owners," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said after the nearly eight-hour meeting on Tuesday. "I think everybody is working hard. I think everybody wants to get a deal done, so I think that's encouraging."

The players' contingent for Wednesday included Penguins captain Sidney Crosby, Chicago captain Jonathan Toews and teammate Jamal Mayers, Buffalo goaltender Ryan Miller, Vancouver forward Manny Malhotra, St. Louis forward David Backes, Florida's George Parros, Rangers center Brad Richards, Tampa Bay veteran Martin St. Louis and teammate B.J. Crombeen, Los Angeles forward Kevin Westgarth, Phoenix captain Shane Doan, Pittsburgh's Craig Adams, Winnipeg defenseman Ron Hainsey, Edmonton's Shawn Horcoff, Calgary centre Michael Cammalleri, Anaheim forward Daniel Winnik along with Chris Campoli and Mathieu Darche.

Both sides have also cleared their schedules for the rest of the week, requesting an adjournment to a hearing with the Quebec Labour Board in Montreal concerning the legality of locking out players from the Canadiens. That meeting, originally scheduled for Thursday and Friday, now will be pushed back.

Daly and NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr surprised the waiting media when they stood side-by-side after Tuesday's meeting while making their statements to the media.

"I thought it was a constructive day, we had a good dialogue," Fehr said. "In some ways I'd say it might be the best day we've had, which isn't to paint too overly optimistic of a picture. There's still a lot of work to do and a lot to be done, but we will be back at it (Wednesday) morning."

The owners were represented by chairman of the NHL's board of governors, Jeremy Jacobs of the Boston Bruins. He was joined by Murray Edwards of the Calgary Flames, as well as Pittsburgh's Ron Burkle, Tampa's Jeff Vinik, Mark Chipman of the new Winnipeg franchise and Larry Tanenbaum of the Maple Leafs.

Both sides met for more than five hours, broke in the evening, then reconvened nearly two hours later until finally resting for good shortly after Midnight et.

Bettman first suggested the idea of a face-to-face meeting between owners and players without some of the usual representatives from either side involved in the collective bargaining sessions.

The two factions met twice last week with the involvement of federal mediators, but the process was unsuccessful as it had been during the 2004-05 lockout.

The current work stoppage, which began Sept. 16, has already forced the cancellation of regular-season games through Dec. 14, as well as the Winter Classic and All-Star Weekend.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:53 PM   #4080
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar View Post
NHL proposal from todays negotiations


cliffs:
3 big concessions by the league:
-upping the 'make whole' to dead smack in the middle of the NHL and PA's previous proposals. ($300m concession from early talks)
-keep the current CBA rules for free agency and arbitration as opposed to the previous offer. (i believe what the PA was seeking)
-introducing a clause where teams can resign their own free agents to up to 7 year contracts ( up from 5 years in previous proposals)

-keeping 5 year max contract length and year to year variance of 5% is reasonable imo. contracts longer than this is pure greed. and it makes contracts easier to sign, and it actually gives the players a chance to make MORE money in the next contract.
you beat me to it..seems like its heading in the right direction though..hopefully something can be done
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:05 AM   #4081
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how would the schedule look? half a season?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:26 AM   #4082
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-keeping 5 year max contract length and year to year variance of 5% is reasonable imo. contracts longer than this is pure greed. and it makes contracts easier to sign, and it actually gives the players a chance to make MORE money in the next contract.
That's more of a win for the owners. The number of 7+ year contracts isn't huge and limited to the biggest stars, really. Most players sign for 3 years when they're 18, sign their second contract at 21, and possibly another before they're 27. At 27, they're looking for that "lifetime" contract since they're hitting their prime and hopefully have monster seasons to justify a high price on what they hope is their last contract.

If they sign 7 years when they're 27, then at 34, they're probably looking at a cheaper veteran deal that's shorter term unless you're Shane Doan or Teemu Selanne. This will probably prevent players from having huge contracts when they're 35+.

The part that blows my mind about all this is that you KNOW at least one of the owners is going to find a way to circumvent this CBA. I wouldn't put it past Aquaman because Gillis is a shrewd ass motherfucker.

That's how all this shit started...because some team owners with more money threw $100 million at guys like Parise and Kovalchuk. This will just repeat itself because the more involved, deeper pocketed owners will always look for the competitive edge while the shitty owners of shitty teams just want to make money but can't because they can't afford players.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:33 AM   #4083
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Yea

I should start playing again even if it's just drop in roller hockey or at least just shooting around down at QE Park or something. I used to play like every day up until the end of HS sigh.

So did anyone go down to play with RK17 and company today?
lol at SkinnyPupp failing you for no reason
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:31 AM   #4084
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Did anyone go watch Kesler and Bieksa play street hockey under Cambie bridge?

Game on! Canucks players organize street hockey game under Cambie Bridge



-Bieksa playing hockey with his son and Kesler's daughter

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Old 12-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #4085
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Originally Posted by RRxtar View Post
NHL proposal from todays negotiations


-upping the 'make whole' to dead smack in the middle of the NHL and PA's previous proposals. ($300m concession from early talks)
The details of the 300M increased make whole, it's really 250M make whole plus 50M in player pensions and benefits, not sure why the two are rolled together to make it seem like the owners have moved to meet halfway for the make whole number. On the surface it looks good for owners that they have moved 'so much' when in fact they have really moved 39M but doubled the term to 10 years from the previous 5 which is a small price to pay on the owners' part. I think 300M is the magical number both sides anticipated given the circumstances, its just a matter of whether or not that 300M will be 100% make whole money or have other stuff included as well, and of course the term of the CBA

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Did anyone go watch Kesler and Bieksa play street hockey under Cambie bridge?
Kesler too gimped to play road hockey He's still not skating with what's left of the team. At least Garrison and Edler are though.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:37 PM   #4086
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #4087
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NHL labour talks have gone sour again. It's gone from good to bad way too many times, shit sounds like a bipolar girlfriend.

RIP 2012-2013 season
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #4088
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From this most recent round of meetings? Or just in general?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:10 PM   #4089
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From this most recent round of meetings? Or just in general?
Recent

apparently things went really well last night, then it got sour again this morning
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:10 PM   #4090
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NHL labour talks have gone sour again. It's gone from good to bad way too many times, shit sounds like a bipolar girlfriend.

RIP 2012-2013 season
If the very recent Tweets from the usual suspects (McKenzie, Duthie, etc) are accurate, the big players have left the table.

The season's done. A pox on both of their houses.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:39 PM   #4091
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^maybe I'm just an optimist. But the 'real' dealing wont be done between the players and owners anyhow, it will and always has been about Fehr and Bettman. It was great the players and owners were able to get some dialog going the last couple days and at least talk about some movement to give Fehr and Bettman something to work off of, since its basically a game of chicken between those 2 right now. It doesn't sound like things have gone sour yet, but the feeling has been that things are delicate today. This latest round gives me the impression that both sides are finally now actually working to at least try and get this resolved.

Most players and owners were quite cautious about being too optimistic last night, so its nowhere near smooth sailing yet, but its not a lost season yet. The fact that the PA even considered taking this offer to a full vote gives me a bit of hope.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:56 PM   #4092
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FUCK YOU BETTMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:07 PM   #4093
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Once they officially cancel the season, I'm gonna cancel my TV service. All Hulu and online video from now on.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:40 PM   #4094
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Hopefully a few franchise will fold
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:22 PM   #4095
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so its apparently very clock...
optimistic still
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:41 PM   #4096
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latest offer rejected by the nhl
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #4097
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lol via voicemail:

Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Fehr says NHL left a voicemail message saying NHLPA counter wasn't acceptable. No need to stick around today or Friday. Talks broken for now
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Bettman says sense of optimism "almost inexplixably" disappeared Wednesday afternoon after such a good day Tuesday
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:52 PM   #4098
 
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shouldnt have let bettman and fehr back in the room. at least on wed when there were problems the players and owners still tried. id say its done now even though they were close on most things
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:53 PM   #4099
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this shit is done
everyone's to blame
Plain and simple
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:05 PM   #4100
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Ok leave the jokes in here


where can i check in for the world junior's for gold thread (someone go create)

2013 WJHC Schedule
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