REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2012, 02:19 AM   #26
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomac View Post
That's kinda what I was wondering. We cook lobsters and crab while they're still alive. How is one method acceptable while the other isn't?
Extensive research and debate has taken place over the ethics of placing a living lobster in boiling water, it could no longer be considered a widely accepted practice and many people now kill prior to boiling. The question at hand though, why is cooking a turtle alive so much more unethical than a lobster or crab?

Lobsters have an extremely primitive nervous system, they will react to pain inducing stimuli such as bee venom or electrical shock in a controlled lab environment, but it's questionable whether they experience pain in the same sense as more highly evolved animals. Lobsters have a decentralized nervous system with fifteen ganglia positioned throughout the body, ganglia are like very small and primitive brains that process sensory information and direct the body. Although the ganglia are definitely capable of processing the sensory information we perceive as pain as negative and issuing the command to escape it, the question of whether it's a very basic and purely instinctual response or if some degree of higher order response occurs remains a mystery. I would lean towards thinking it's a very primitive reaction and therefore not that bad to boil a live lobster, but it's still better to kill swiftly before boiling imo.

Turtles are monumentally different and more complex creatures than lobsters, they aren't even in the same phylum; which makes this comparison really a moot point. A turtle is a vertebrate with a complex brain that has multiple structures and the way they respond to stimuli is a reflection of that. It's a very safe assumption that turtles experience a higher order pain response comparable to our own, therefore cooking one alive would induce suffering and is unethical.

What's unethical is a matter of personal opinion, of course. Some people think microwaving cats to watch them die is ethical, just because they're a lower order animal and it's amusing; most people would find microwaving a cat unethical despite it being a lower order animal, because it induces enormous suffering on it. People all subjectively decide which animals are okay to cause suffering and which are not, usually based on the cute and fuzzy coefficient.
Advertisement

Last edited by MindBomber; 07-07-2012 at 03:44 AM.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 07-07-2012, 02:24 AM   #27
Trollollolloing RS sine 2005
 
TOPEC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Richmond
Posts: 7,092
Thanked 2,471 Times in 704 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
Those outraged by this video might be interested to read this link for knowledge sake, it's not light reading so be aware of that before opening it.
The Eight Most Cruel and Controversial World Delicacies | Trifter
that article is fucked up in the sense that its providing wrong info...
for "roasted duck leg" and "dried chicken", its def not done the way the author describes it, dono where he/she got the info. for all else i have no comment.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinHurricane View Post
I had some girl come into the busser station the other day trying to make out with every staff member and then pull down her pants and asked for someone to stick a dick in her (at least she shaved).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1exotic View Post
Vtec doesn't kick in on Reverse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
its like.. oh yeah oh yeah.. ohhhh yeah... OOoooOohh... why's it suddenly feel a bit better... ohhhh yeahh... ohhh...oh..fuck... it probably ripped.
TOPEC is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 07-07-2012, 02:27 AM   #28
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
Verdasco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rich City / Van
Posts: 3,840
Thanked 4,984 Times in 995 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
Extensive research and debate has taken place over the ethics of placing a living lobster in boiling water, it could no longer be considered a widely accepted practice and many people now kill prior to boiling. The question at hand though, why is cooking a turtle alive so much more unethical than a lobster or crab?

Lobsters have an extremely primitive nervous system, they will react to pain inducing stimuli such as bee venom or electrical shock in a controlled lab environment, but it's questionable whether they experience pain in the same sense as more highly evolved animals. Lobsters have a decentralized nervous system with fifteen ganglia positioned throughout the body, ganglia are like very small and primitive brains that process sensory information and direct the body. Although the ganglia are definitely capable of processing the sensory information we perceive as pain as negative and issuing the command to escape it, the question of whether it's a very basic and purely instinctual response or if some degree of higher order response occurs remains a mystery. Even I would lean towards thinking it's a very primitive reaction, and therefore not that bad to boil a live lobster.

Turtles are monumentally different and more complex creatures than lobsters, they aren't even in the same phylum; which makes this comparison really a moot point. A turtle is a vertebrate with a complex brain that has multiple structures and the way they respond to stimuli is a reflection of that. It's a very safe assumption that turtles experience a higher order pain response comparable to our own, therefore cooking one alive would induce suffering and is unethical.

What's unethical is a matter of personal opinion, of course. Some people think microwaving cats to watch them die is ethical, just because they're a lower order animal and it's amusing; most people would find microwaving a cat unethical despite it being a lower order animal, because it induces enormous suffering on it. People all subjectively decide which animals its okay to cause suffering and which are not, usually based on the cute and fuzzy coefficient.
you think humans care so much about the pain response of animals? Who knows how your beef has gotten to your table. Yes, it is unmoral to kill in a certain manner but deep frying turtles like we deep fry other seafood does not seem bad at all. Food is food, if he is hungry, let him at it.
Verdasco is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 07-07-2012, 02:45 AM   #29
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verdasco View Post
you think humans care so much about the pain response of animals? Who knows how your beef has gotten to your table. Yes, it is unmoral to kill in a certain manner but deep frying turtles like we deep fry other seafood does not seem bad at all. Food is food, if he is hungry, let him at it.
Yes, the vast majority of humans do care about inflicting pain on fellow animals. Whether an animal is killed by a slaughterhouse or a hunter for food, or a veterinarian due to illness, a great deal of care is generally given towards making it as painless an action as possible. When the care to make it painless is not given, the majority of humans are outraged; the Whistler dog sled massacre is an example.

You've illustrated my final point in the previous post. Some people find inflicting suffering for amusement wrong, some people could care less and don't distinguish animals from one another with any actual logic. A turtle has little to nothing in common with a lobster, you can't justify one based on the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOPEC View Post
that article is fucked up in the sense that its providing wrong info...
for "roasted duck leg" and "dried chicken", its def not done the way the author describes it, dono where he/she got the info. for all else i have no comment.
I was looking for information on cooking turtles alive, found the article relevant and therefore posted it. I'm not experienced with cooking live animals, so didn't realize there was incorrect info.

Last edited by MindBomber; 07-07-2012 at 02:57 AM.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 02:49 AM   #30
I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
 
Verdasco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rich City / Van
Posts: 3,840
Thanked 4,984 Times in 995 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
Yes, the vast majority of humans do care about inflicting pain on fellow animals. Whether an animal is killed by a slaughterhouse or a hunter for food, or a veterinarian due to illness, a great deal of care is generally given towards making it as painless an action as possible. When the care to make it painless is not given, the majority of humans are outraged; the Whistler dog sled massacre is an example.

You've illustrated my final point in the previous post. Some people find inflicting suffering for amusement wrong, some people could care less and don't distinguish animals from one another with any actual logic. A turtle has little to nothing in common with a lobster, you can't justify one based on the other.
k I'm going to stop here. Dog sled massacre in a deep drying/food topic? You can not compare a killing to this
Verdasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 03:22 AM   #31
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verdasco View Post
k I'm going to stop here. Dog sled massacre in a deep drying/food topic? You can not compare a killing to this
My response is completely in line with your question; you asked, "you think humans care so much about the pain response of animals?," dogs are animals, and the response to the massacre was as a result of the pain they experienced. If you dislike the dog example and would now prefer something directly food related, I can easily substitute a whole series of other examples. Subsistence hunters; every well taught hunter will state with no ambiguity, if they cannot strike a blow that will result in a quick and minimally painful death they will not take the animal. Canadian slaughterhouse regulations are set by the Federal government under the Meat Inspection Act, defining the standards for humane handling and slaughter, deviating from those standards will result in criminal charges for animal cruelty. I could continue to provide examples. So once again, the answer to your question is yes, they do care.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:38 AM   #32
ESKETIT
 
Vansterdam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: EASTVAN
Posts: 23,242
Thanked 9,581 Times in 2,278 Posts
i like turtles
Vansterdam is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 07-07-2012, 09:46 AM   #33
RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
 
sonick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Revscene
Posts: 8,294
Thanked 5,999 Times in 1,924 Posts
Noooooo, Michaelangelo!!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyxx View Post
Sonick is a genius. I won't go into detail what's so great about his post. But it's damn good!
2010 Toyota Rav4 Limited V6 - Wifey's Daily Driver
2009 BMW 128i - Daily Driver
2007 Toyota Rav4 Sport V6 - Sold
1999 Mazda Miata - Sold
2003 Mazda Protege5 - Sold
1987 BMW 325is - Sold
1990 Mazda Miata - Sold

100% Buy and Sell Feedback
sonick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #34
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
SpeedStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,905
Thanked 4,443 Times in 1,022 Posts
Looks like one of those pet slider turtles.... Turtle doesn't even look cooked btw.
SpeedStars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 10:20 PM   #35
resident Oil Guru
 
LiquidTurbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,716
Thanked 10,457 Times in 1,794 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
I know horrific acts of animal cruelty take place many millions of times everyday; I know in some cultures inflicting unspeakable suffering on "lesser" animals is considered socially acceptable; I know of crushing videos; I know to some foodies eating an animal cooked while still alive is the haute couture of dining. That knowledge does not lessen the visceral rage these videos provoke in me. The state of the human race is deplorable.

Those outraged by this video might be interested to read this link for knowledge sake, it's not light reading so be aware of that before opening it.
The Eight Most Cruel and Controversial World Delicacies | Trifter
Are you a vegetarian? You better not be chomping down on a pork chop as you write that.
LiquidTurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 10:57 PM   #36
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo View Post
Are you a vegetarian? You better not be chomping down on a pork chop as you write that.
Yes, I am a vegetarian, but I'm not necessarily opposed to meat raised and slaughtered humanely.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 07-08-2012, 10:59 PM   #37
...in the world.
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Richmond
Posts: 28,466
Thanked 7,636 Times in 2,321 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
I know horrific acts of animal cruelty take place many millions of times everyday; I know in some cultures inflicting unspeakable suffering on "lesser" animals is considered socially acceptable; I know of crushing videos; I know to some foodies eating an animal cooked while still alive is the haute couture of dining. That knowledge does not lessen the visceral rage these videos provoke in me. The state of the human race is deplorable.

Those outraged by this video might be interested to read this link for knowledge sake, it's not light reading so be aware of that before opening it.
The Eight Most Cruel and Controversial World Delicacies | Trifter
Not even kidding, I just cracked the fuck up when I saw the "roasted duck legs" and the picture is just BBQ duck. SOMEONE CALL THE COPS ON #9!

LOLOOOLLLL

I'm one of those foodies. I've eaten a bunch of live seafood...well, live shellfish and mollusks and "live" things like squid (that are dead but still flopping around). I don't think I want to eat a monkey's brains while it's still alive but if I have to be cruel to oysters for them to taste best, well, I'm okay with that.
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 11:07 PM   #38
resident Oil Guru
 
LiquidTurbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,716
Thanked 10,457 Times in 1,794 Posts
Oysters can be eaten alive and they won't feel a thing. Go crazy.
LiquidTurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 11:12 PM   #39
...in the world.
 
Ronin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Richmond
Posts: 28,466
Thanked 7,636 Times in 2,321 Posts
Exactly.
Ronin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 11:17 PM   #40
Banned (ABWS)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: vancouver
Posts: 3,303
Thanked 1,107 Times in 271 Posts
Somebody called?
KingDeeCee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #41
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
I agree, oysters can be eaten alive without any moral complications. It's not possible to say with definity that oysters do not feel pain, but the likelihood that they do seems infinitesimally small. Even Peter Singer, who is in many ways the most prominent voice of the vegan/vegetarian movement, says it's okay to eat oysters in "Animal Liberation" because the doubts that they feel pain are so significant.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:27 AM   #42
I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
 
q0192837465's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,760
Thanked 375 Times in 181 Posts
What animal isn't eaten alive in the real world? Are u gonna tell the lion to kill the zebra humanely before ripping its guts out?
q0192837465 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 07-10-2012, 11:19 AM   #43
PYT
Oh goodie, 5 posts already!
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver bc
Posts: 9
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
this is straight disgusting
PYT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:33 AM   #44
Wanna have a threesome?
 
MindBomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Squamish
Posts: 4,889
Thanked 5,054 Times in 1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by q0192837465 View Post
What animal isn't eaten alive in the real world? Are u gonna tell the lion to kill the zebra humanely before ripping its guts out?
In the real world, with very few exceptions, a predator kills it's prey in the most expedient means possible because prolonging the kill would only serve to expend more energy and put it at risk of injury.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:28 PM   #45
I *Fwap* *Fwap* *Fwap* to RS
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,597
Thanked 2,733 Times in 633 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOPEC View Post
that article is fucked up in the sense that its providing wrong info...
for "roasted duck leg" and "dried chicken", its def not done the way the author describes it, dono where he/she got the info. for all else i have no comment.
Monkey Brains is also not real... it was done in Indi Jones movie temple of doom and was also spoofed by some video made in the 1970s.

That article blows.
trollface is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net