Richmond Restaurateur rejects shark fin ban

[Tim Budong]

Regulating isn't gonna do shit. Unless you can farm sharks which I believe is impossible since they don't give birth to masses. This debate will stand strong and continue.IMO it is gonna be too late by the time the entire world goes and joins together to fight finning.

[murd0c]

Originally Posted by Presto

I can't tell if murdoc is being sarcastic or ignorant or sarcastically ignorant.

[AzNightmare]

You idiots don't like shark fin soup.
You guys like the fucking broth.

[drunkrussian]

tradition my ass. tradition of profits maybe

[drunkrussian]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

Regulating isn't gonna do shit. Unless you can farm sharks which I believe is impossible since they don't give birth to masses. This debate will stand strong and continue.IMO it is gonna be too late by the time the entire world goes and joins together to fight finning.

it certainly wont work fully. just create an underground market like with sturgeon. however i think it will slow down the shark fin's sale and spark interest in legal alternatves in the long run. also like with sturgeon

[toyota86]

i don't really get the argument. its ok to slaughter cows because people can use/eat the whole animal. but, its not ok to kill sharks just for their fins because it wastes the rest of the animal. seems like the real problem is wastefulness.

to me, it just feels like the only issue is that people haven't found a use for the rest of the shark after it gets finned. in my opinion, the solution to the problem would be to increase the desire for the rest of the shark by increasing its uses/edibility.

increasing the want for the whole shark should lead to domestication, breeding and farming of sharks much like fish and cattle. if more farmers/businesses breed them, along with increased competition and tech in the process, it should make buying shark and shark products cheaper and also solves the "endangered species" problem.

i am neither for nor against the ban.

[Phil@rise]

What so many people seem to be missing here is the means with which the fins are harvested. The sharks are caught dragged aboard alive the fins cut off while alive and then tossed back to sea alive with no means to swim as such no means to have water flowing thru thier gills and they drown.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by Boostaholic

how is it much more cruel to eat shark, vs any other animal? You are still killing an animal and eating the thing.

The fact that you're killing a healthy Shark for the fins, just the fins.

If you kill it, do not waste any of it.

[sas]

I always had a number of questions regarding this debate..
Hopefully you guys can shed some light for me!

1. Method of Killing (finning):
- I believe it is more plausible that fishers will partake in this practice IF the rest of the shark is not valuable. It stands to reason that you would want to maximize your profits. Having a useless corpse helps no one. I haven't done my research but I believe we're all driven by profits. The food industry is still a business.

So my question is, can anyone confirm if the rest of the shark is useless?

b) Would you guys be OK if we slaughtered sharks in a similar manner as cows, chickens, pigs so long as we tried out best to utilize the entire shark?

2. The ecosystem and extinction:
Where do you go to find credible sources for extinction and that sort of statistics? Information is only as useful if it is accurate.

3. For the younger generation: Do you guys feel it is important to continue this tradition?
What are the implications if such tradition were not to continue?

I'm just trying to remove conjecture from the arguments.. I find in heated debates, often we speak with passion foremost.

Recently I had a Chinese wedding and opted for a menu sans shark fin soup. To be honest, I was too lazy to do my own research ( don't like to rely on PETA, WWF, etc). In the end, when I asked why it was so special, no one could give me an intelligent answer. Besides, I prefer hot and sour soup and thats what I had. Much to the chagrin of the old folks. But don't worry I had have shots of XO cognac to make up for it. Classy.

[drunkrussian]

^the rest of the shark is not useless. i saw on bourdain that original fish tacos were made from sharks in mexico and are fucking amazing. It's a tasty fish. However there isn't a market for sharks in many places - it's not useless, just many don't eat it.

My guess is that the space it takes in the boat and the fact that they'll just throw it out anyway, it's easier and more profitable and more legal for them to dispose of it at sea and get rid of it. If there was a market for it they probably would keep it.

[sas]

That makes sense:

- More efficient to dispose at sea
- Not a large enough demand for the shark body

[bing]

Originally Posted by sas

2. The ecosystem and extinction:
Where do you go to find credible sources for extinction and that sort of statistics? Information is only as useful if it is accurate.

With or without any 'credible' evidence about the effects of extinction, I would rather not leave that up to chance. This is how I feel about any other species as well. Once it is gone, there may be no opportunity to ever bring it back. I personally think it is in our own best interest to keep as many species alive. Who knows? maybe they would have some sort of benefit for humanity one day. I also think it is selfish for one race to claim that because of tradition, they have the right to ruin the enjoyment of the species for everyone else. However, tradition needs to be constantly renegotiated by new generations in order for it to remain.

Originally Posted by sas

3. For the younger generation: Do you guys feel it is important to continue this tradition?
What are the implications if such tradition were not to continue?

No, I think it is not worth continuing because it is not sustainable/threat of extinction. This is my opinion and I think the most social pressure to order it is if you are a prominent business person who has high end clientele, you are wealthy and have certain friends you need to impress, or for special occasions such as weddings. And even then, I think that there are other expensive dishes that can be substituted in their place (i.e. abalone, sea cucumber, fish maw). I would order one of these other dishes to show that it is not about the money to me, but about my beliefs.

[bing]

Originally Posted by toyota86

i don't really get the argument. its ok to slaughter cows because people can use/eat the whole animal. but, its not ok to kill sharks just for their fins because it wastes the rest of the animal. seems like the real problem is wastefulness.

to me, it just feels like the only issue is that people haven't found a use for the rest of the shark after it gets finned. in my opinion, the solution to the problem would be to increase the desire for the rest of the shark by increasing its uses/edibility.

increasing the want for the whole shark should lead to domestication, breeding and farming of sharks much like fish and cattle. if more farmers/businesses breed them, along with increased competition and tech in the process, it should make buying shark and shark products cheaper and also solves the "endangered species" problem.

i am neither for nor against the ban.

The bigger issue for me is the threat of extinction of some species.

[bing]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

Regulating isn't gonna do shit. Unless you can farm sharks which I believe is impossible since they don't give birth to masses. This debate will stand strong and continue.IMO it is gonna be too late by the time the entire world goes and joins together to fight finning.

So should everyone bend over and just take it? "it's gonna happen anyways", "there's no point", what other self-defeatist attitudes do you have?

[SkinnyPupp]

This is a tough one for me. On one hand, I think shark fin soup is stupid. Ordering food for no other reason than it being expensive, is stupid in my opinion.

On the other hand, I don't like the government telling people what they can and cannot eat. I won't eat it, and I encourage others not to, but having the government BAN something is bullshit, IMO.

There were a LOT of really fucking stupid things said on this thread, by some really fucking stupid people. But people brought up regulation, and that is something to consider.

If the issue with shark finning is that endangered sharks are being put at risk, then that should be regulated. Anyone caught finning endangered sharks should be shot.

It is horrible to consider allowing people to literally waste 99% of an animal just so some fat ostentatious fuck can look good in front of his friends, so it pains me to even consider this. But at the same time, those fat ostentatious fucks have the right to be fat ostentatious fucks. So I don't like the government banning it.

Like I said, it's a tough one for me... It's not as simple as "ban it" to me, but at the same time, wasting animals like that is fucked up, when it's for the purpose of showing off and nothing else.

[highfive]

A lot of times the ham used to cook the broth is worth more than the shark fin itself.

[AW607]

Originally Posted by sas

So my question is, can anyone confirm if the rest of the shark is useless?

b) Would you guys be OK if we slaughtered sharks in a similar manner as cows, chickens, pigs so long as we tried out best to utilize the entire shark?

2. The ecosystem and extinction:
Where do you go to find credible sources for extinction and that sort of statistics? Information is only as useful if it is accurate.

3. For the younger generation: Do you guys feel it is important to continue this tradition?
What are the implications if such tradition were not to continue?

I personally do not think the rest of a shark would be useless. I remember when I was a bit younger, I always went with my mom to the fisherman's market down by the Steveston village, and she would buy a couple of small harmless sharks that I suppose are okay to fish. She used all of it, and the soups and everything made from the shark were delicious. I found the meat to be a bit softer than typical fish

b) Aren't some species of sharks already endangered? It's hard to control these things most of the time as some sharks are being watched and some aren't. If all sharks were sustained appropriately and used appropriately rather than being tossed back into the ocean in the first place for some fins, then I suppose it would be more socially acceptable. The difference between sharks and all the chickens, pigs, cows, etc is that the animals are being farmed sustainably and regulated appropriately, rather than being slaughtered to near extinction. People who do underground shark finning or finning endangered sharks deserve whatever the law may throw at them, with extreme prejudice.

2) From my own sources, be it accurate or inaccurate, would be the things that I pick up from newspapers and videos, which refer to more external sources

3) I was born in a totally different generation of Chinese people, and my family, which is part Malaysian and part Chinese, tend to lean to more Malaysian cultures, cuisines and some practices rather than Chinese practices, and I myself am pretty happy about that. My dad works at a seafood supply company and I asked him about the issue of shark fin sometimes, and he is indifferent about the issue; he's only had shark fin once or twice before, and that was many years ago before this issue became important.

I went with my girlfriend and her family to her cousin's baby shower, and it was very traditionally Chinese. They served actual shark fin soup, but I was morally against to consuming the fins, so I dodged the fin in the soup and just went for the broth (the broth was tasty, why not just have it without the fin? They look a lot like noodles to me). The fins and the soup were separated before serving, and I remember hearing another guest at the event saying the hosts do that because they want their guests to see how much fin they served at the event (more fin content = more wealth).

Whether or not this tradition should continue? I'm no activist but I believe shark finning used for food is a silly tradition just to flaunt your wealth with no regard for sustainability.

[Phozy]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

This is a tough one for me. On one hand, I think shark fin soup is stupid. Ordering food for no other reason than it being expensive, is stupid in my opinion.

On the other hand, I don't like the government telling people what they can and cannot eat. I won't eat it, and I encourage others not to, but having the government BAN something is bullshit, IMO.

There were a LOT of really fucking stupid things said on this thread, by some really fucking stupid people. But people brought up regulation, and that is something to consider.

If the issue with shark finning is that endangered sharks are being put at risk, then that should be regulated. Anyone caught finning endangered sharks should be shot.

It is horrible to consider allowing people to literally waste 99% of an animal just so some fat ostentatious fuck can look good in front of his friends, so it pains me to even consider this. But at the same time, those fat ostentatious fucks have the right to be fat ostentatious fucks. So I don't like the government banning it.

Like I said, it's a tough one for me... It's not as simple as "ban it" to me, but at the same time, wasting animals like that is fucked up, when it's for the purpose of showing off and nothing else.

+1, pretty much sums it up for me.

Not for or against. I don't like the idea of the government banning it, sooner or later it will be them telling us to eat or not eat, like we haven't handed our asses to them enough already.

Banned or not, if there is demand for something, someone will find a way to get it.

[Nsane]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but the survival of sharks is also important because it affects life on land (yes, that means humans too).

As an apex predator, sharks basically control the population of marine life, so they are essential to the aquatic ecosystem. Starting from the bottom of the chain, there's phytoplankton, who are eaten by fish and whales. We need sharks to consume fish and whales so they do not over-consume the phytoplankton.

Although phytoplankton are at the bottom of the chain, they are responsible for half of the photosynthetic activity on Earth. That means they are responsible for much of the oxygen we breathe and they consume most of the carbon dioxide on Earth (global warming gas).

So basically, if you fuck up the aquatic ecosystem, especially with the apex predators, you fuck up the climate and life on land in the long run.

[LiquidTurbo]

So if shark finning was done sustainably being fished like fish, people would be okay with it?

[Excelsis]

what happened to the holy monks, what has this world come to

Spoiler!

srs

[Presto]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

So if shark finning was done sustainably being fished like fish, people would be okay with it?

Sure, why wouldn't be people okay with it? Veal is sustainable, too. :P

[tseman]

nsane you are right that sharks are needed to keep balance, but the fact is is that sharks are so close to being extinct that they are already extinct in some waters. what i am trying to suggest is that sharks are going to become extinct indefinitely. there is nothing richmond can do to save sharks globally. i wish richmond alone could...but they can't.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Presto

Sure, why wouldn't be people okay with it? Veal is sustainable, too. :P

Because people have an emotional attachment to sharks.

[Presto]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Because people have an emotional attachment to sharks.

As they do with cute, baby cattle.