NCAA Slams Penn State

[dangonay]

The NCAA came down hard on Penn State over the whole Sandusky/Paterno sex abuse scandal.

• A $60 million "fine" which must be directed to child sexual abuse prevention programs.
• A 4 year ban on any post-season games.
• All wins from 1998-2011 are vacated (Paterno goes from 409 to 298, dropping him from 1st to 12th overall).
• They must reduce 10 scholarhsips initially and 20 scholarships subsequently for the next 4 years, bringing their 85 scholarhsips down to 65.
• 5 year probationary period.
• Players for Penn State may immediately transfer to other schools if they wish (who'd stay playing for Penn if they have no chance of post-season play?).

I'd say they're sending a pretty clear message.

[murd0c]

I still think it's not good enough.... You can't put a price on what happened...

[bing]

^nothing will ever be "good enough", but I think this sends a strong message.

And the same argument can be used for any sentence that falls short of the death penalty for a murderer, IMO that is akin to circular reasoning.

[CorneringArtist]

Opinion piece here from the other side, but the writer has a point. The NCAA shouldn't have rights to interfere with school matters.

The NCAA Is Using Penn State To Justify Its Own Horrid Existence

OK, first of all, you people at the NCAA are gutless shitbags. I know you're probably spending this morning in an Indianapolis conference room patting each other on the back and tugging each other's cocks and ordering EXTRA Einstein bagels for everyone for a job well done (why not, you've got $60 million in bureaucratic charity funds to spend), but you're still gutless shitbags. You gave Penn State everything but the death penalty specifically so they would be encouraged to shut down the program themselves. I see what you did there. You handed down enough meaty punishment for everyone to nod along in approval, but you didn't cross the line and risk a backlash by destroying the program outright by your own hand. You buffed your image nicely this morning, yes you did.
Because that's what NCAA sanctions are, when you get right down to it. They're an exercise in branding. Punishment time is the only time people really pay attention to the NCAA. It's the NCAA's sax solo. Punishing a school is what helps the NCAA justify its existence to people, to say to the country, "WE ARE IN CONTROL HERE, EVERYONE." There's a certain reaction it's looking for from the general public in response to those sanctions. They're the ones you might've read in last night's CBS report on the school's fine:
A source told CBS News correspondent Armen Keteyian that Penn State will suffer "unprecedented" punishment

"This is a fine like no fine before [...]"

"I've never seen anything like it [...]"

That second quote is the perfect NCAA response quote. "Why, I've never seen bureaucracy be so bureaucratic!" It's important to the NCAA that you be properly shocked and awed by the totality of its justice system. There was no way they were gonna miss out on shitting all over Penn State when shitting on Penn State makes for such good business these days. (Take it from us Deadspin folk. We know how to milk that titty for all it's worth.)

This was cynical shit. I couldn't give two fucks what happens to the football team—dress them in white unitards and make them a French mime troop, for all I care—but there's nothing more ridiculous than watching the NCAA parade around its values and make frowny faces on national television, months and months after the scandal broke (and years and years after evil was allowed to take root). Blowing up Penn State gives perfect cover for every other big football school that is now, to use NCAA president Mark Emmert's phrase, "too big to fail," which describes all of them, and which describes the NCAA, too, while we're at it. It creates the illusion that everything is on the up-and-up again, and that other schools will see Penn State and totally get it now (they won't). In its own stupid way, it's the perfect end point for the Penn State scandal: rotten institution punishes institutional rot.

The next great college sports scandal isn't gonna be at Penn State. It'll be at some other asshole school where the head coach still has too much power and the football program still makes too much money. There's no "stark wake-up call." The system is still fucked, and nothing the NCAA did today will do anything to change that. It only serves to extend the fucked-upness a touch longer. Among the many sick ironies of the Penn State saga is the fact that it was horrible enough to be considered by everyone a terrific anomaly. It wasn't. Sandusky's crime was, but the scandal that ensued was about concentrated power and institutional capture and all the shitty things enabled by the durable belief that the goals of big-time sports and higher education are at all reconcilable. The next great college sports scandal won't be about child rape. It'll be a different kind of awful. A school will get caught in a Bulgarian sex slave ring. A coach will turn out to be embezzling funds from AIDS babies. An AD will turn out to have ties to the Hezbollah. And whenever that new scandal happens, you can bet the NCAA will be there again, ready to put a band-aid on an amputated head.

tl;dr, the NCAA is waving their dick in an issue they really have no power in.

There are STILL ongoing investigations regarding now-NFL player Cam Newton being shopped to college teams FOR MONEY (illegal under NCAA rules), Ohio State football players receiving inpermissible benefits from boosters (gifts, again illegal under the rules), and Oregon allegedly using illegal recruiting services. However, they basically drop the sanctions at the drop of a hat, because it was under a national spotlight. The NCAA is the governing body for regulating college athletics, not a police organization against child molestation. They're punishing the entire school for something a small group of individuals did. Everyone else is innocent, and THAT is my problem here. As if tuition in schools wasn't high enough, this doesn't help and is punishing completely innocent prospective students by driving tuition rates up.

Do not get me wrong, it was absolutely horrible as to what Sandusky did and the cover-ups that followed. But I believe the NCAA overstepped its bounds by handing down what is essentially the SMU Death Penalty without making it look like that.

[Hondaracer]

NCAA should have power..

If somone in the NFL or NHL was doing somthing similar, you dont think the League as a whole would take action? of course they would

[bballguy]

Not sure if I totally agree with the punishment. Doesn't make sense to reduce scholarships and have a ban on post-seasons....that is hurting the students/student body. A much larger fine would've been more fitting in my opinion. This is almost like punishing an entire family for a crime that only one family member committed. Yes, I'm aware that there were many others involved, but 99% of the members of Penn State, whether that be board, faculty, students, etc, really have nothing to do with what happened. Just my opinion...

[Hondaracer]

a monetary fine does nothing..

and by taking away scholarships they hit right where it hurts, also allowing players who are there now to leave without waiting a year hurts again

Honestly, i know there are reno's being done there but would you want to go take a shower after a football game in the same shower where sandusky was fucking little boys?

the program is doomed from this point on regardless, they will never recruit the top players anymore

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by CorneringArtist

tl;dr, the NCAA is waving their dick in an issue they really have no power in.

Dat pun intended

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

NCAA should have power..

If someone in the NFL or NHL was doing somthing similar, you dont think the League as a whole would take action? of course they would

That argument is ) The difference between collegiate and professional athletics is that schools are PUBLICLY funded EDUCATIONAL institutions. They aren't in it for money like pro leagues. Kids go to play collegiate to have a shot at turning pro while getting an education at the same time.

What these sanctions have done is screw over the state of Pennsylvania by likely increasing taxes to cover these costs because Sandusky committed these crimes, not Penn State as a whole. They also screw all of Penn State because no one will really want to go there anymore. If history says anything Penn State will become a graveyard of college football like SMU (Death Penalty in 1986, only becoming successful as of 2010!) hurting the institution in the long run for not being able to bring in revenue to help out students.

[Hondaracer]

i think thats a small price to pay when you've fucked up countless lives..

Football was what was subsidizing all programs within the school, the football team was basically a professional entity running within collegiate boundaries, the money and power that penn state gained was only because the program was allowed to keep running while the heads of the program continually covered up sexual exploitation..

without those coverups, the program would have never been what it is today

[bing]

Steve Bench will fly to Pennsylvania on Tuesday. He can't get to State College soon enough. His son, Steven, recently moved from the family home in Bainbridge, Ga., to Happy Valley to play quarterback at Penn State. Steven was one of the people the NCAA punished Monday, and the elder Bench wants to be there in person to help Steven figure out his next move.

Steven Bench didn't have anything to do with the cover-up that led to historic sanctions for Penn State football. He was in first grade when Penn State's leaders decided to bury an allegation and allowed former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky to continue raping children. NCAA president Mark Emmert didn't punish former president Graham Spanier, former athletic director Tim Curley or former vice president Gary Schultz at all during Monday's dog-and-pony-show press conference in Indianapolis.

Emmert and the NCAA stripped coach Joe Paterno of his wins since 1998 in a symbolic gesture that won't destroy the late Paterno's legacy or reputation beyond what Paterno's own wrongdoing already has. The $60 million fine is a good, constructive sanction because it will go toward helping child abuse victims, but it is easily payable by a school with a $1.8 billion endowment.

Steven Bench and his teammates will pay the most meaningful share of the NCAA portion of the penance for what Penn State's leaders did. That isn't right, but that is the NCAA's only option because it lacks the power to punish those who actually did wrong. The NCAA did reserve the right to punish those complicit in the cover-up, but why offer them due process and not the current players? There is as much evidence against Curley and Schultz -- who have been charged with perjury in Pennsylvania -- as the NCAA had against former Ohio State coach Jim Tressel and far more evidence than the NCAA used to torpedo former USC assistant Todd McNair's career.

Steve Bench doesn't consider the NCAA the bad guy here. He is a parent, and he has worked in the public school system. He understands this case is about something far more important than football. He knows that the real victims are the ones Sandusky preyed upon. He understands why Emmert and the NCAA felt they had to send a message. Still, Bench spent much of January researching whether the NCAA had the authority to hammer Penn State's current football team for criminal acts and not violations of NCAA bylaw. He spoke to college coaches and administrators trying to gauge whether he should allow his son to sign with Penn State instead of taking the scholarship offer he already had from Rice. They told Bench and his family this case was different because Penn State hadn't broken any NCAA bylaws. Monday's sanctions blindsided him.

"It's very difficult. Everything has changed so dramatically -- not only since the Freeh Report," the elder Bench said Monday. "If you listened to everybody out there, they say the NCAA can't get involved in this. Then they grant special powers at a special time. I guess they get to do that."

Now the Benches must decide whether Steven will stay at Penn State -- where he'll play on a depleted roster and never make a postseason game -- or whether he'll try to latch on somewhere else. For Bench, this is probably a less difficult decision than it will be for his older teammates. They have progressed toward Penn State degrees and built relationships at the school. Do they just pick up and move? Or do they stay?

One of the things Emmert got right was granting blanket permission to Penn State players to transfer to any school and play immediately. To further help those players, the NCAA is allowing schools at the 85-player scholarship limit to go over the limit to take Penn State transfers provided that they dock themselves a comparable number of scholarships the following year.

(It remains unclear whether schools that face scholarship reductions because of NCAA sanctions -- such as USC, Ohio State or North Carolina -- can take Penn State players. In light of the fact that Emmert and the NCAA have now set the precedent that they will tackle issues that actually matter, it makes the penalties handed to USC for Reggie Bush taking money from an agent seem pretty silly. So it would be poetic justice if USC won the national title using a defensive tackle acquired because of the Penn State sanctions.)

So what should the current Penn State players do? Stay or go? Let's look at the sanctions and the repercussions.

First things first: No matter what anyone says, the death penalty would have been worse. Canceling an entire season (or two) would have cost Penn State even more on top of the fine because the school would have lost millions in football ticket sales and television payouts from the Big Ten. That also could have hurt the other sports at Penn State which rely on football revenue to survive. From a competitive standpoint, erasing the program for a few years would have set the rebuilding process back even further. What will now take 10-15 years might have taken at least 20.

With the possible exception of freshmen who redshirt this year, no current Penn State player will play in another postseason game because of the four-year ban. Had Emmert truly wanted to marginalize Penn State's program for decades, he could have made this a 10-, 15- or 20-year ban. Still, that doesn't mean Penn State will be fine in four years. Because of the ban, no elite recruit is likely to even consider Penn State for at least three years. USC survived its two-year ban so well because Lane Kiffin could promise recruits that they would play for championships for at least two seasons. Penn State coach Bill O'Brien can't make that promise for two years, and it's unlikely that an elite player would consider the possibility until at least the year before the ban is lifted. Meanwhile, the loss of 20 scholarships a year beginning in the 2013-14 school year will ensure that Penn State doesn't have the depth to compete in the Big Ten. Who will go to Penn State now? Players considering low-level Big Ten and high-level MAC schools who decide Penn State's facilities and resources trump the possibility of playing in the Little Caesars Pizza Bowl.

Sophomores and freshmen who have no better options beyond that level are probably better off staying. Anyone who can get a scholarship at a competitive power conference school should probably leave. For upperclassmen, it's a little bit trickier. If they're likely NFL draftees, they should leave immediately. A good program will take them. If they aren't NFL-bound, then they need to consider staying. Before leaving, they must examine how many of their course credits will transfer. Did they spend three or four years working toward a degree that isn't available at another school? Will they lose progress by transferring? Is the new school's degree as prestigious as the one from Penn State? Which degree makes it easier to get a job? These are the questions those players must ask. For those who have already graduated, there is little harm in leaving and getting a free master's degree while playing elsewhere.

During the sanctions, and probably for several years after, Penn State will be comparable to Indiana or another low-level Big Ten program and will recruit like one of those programs. The best players in Pennsylvania will go elsewhere. Expect Ohio State, Michigan and Notre Dame to scoop up many of the top recruits in the state. During this time, it will be interesting to learn whether Penn State fans love their program or whether they loved their winning program. If they keep packing Beaver Stadium through what will be some awfully lean years, then it's true love, and they'll probably provide the resources to help the program recover after the sanctions expire. If they stop coming to games, then Penn State may never climb back to prominence.

That question won't be answered until long after the eligibility of Bench and the other Nittany Lions expires. For the moment, the players must decide their best course of action now that the NCAA has dropped its hammer on Penn State. Some will stay. Most will probably leave. They didn't do anything wrong, but they'll have to pay a price anyway.

Penn State players face transfer choice after NCAA sanctions - Andy Staples - SI.com

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

i think thats a small price to pay when you've fucked up countless lives..

Football was what was subsidizing all programs within the school, the football team was basically a professional entity running within collegiate boundaries, the money and power that penn state gained was only because the program was allowed to keep running while the heads of the program continually covered up sexual exploitation..

without those coverups, the program would have never been what it is today

I know what Sandusky did was wrong, but for a public institution to be punished by a private, non-government run organization to punish the school as a whole for this? It just isnt right.

If the government levied these fines MAYBE I'd be fine with it, but then we'd have people complaining about government overstepping their boundaries and etc. You don't see the federal or Pennsylvania government coming after Penn State with fines, only the NCAA. At least they're going to something constructive which is fine with me. The NCAA is only supposed to be doing one thing: making sure amateurism is being followed by the athletic side of the school. Why should an entire student body and state have to suffer for the actions of a group of a select view.

[Hondaracer]

I dont think the state could even administer punishment in terms of the actual program outside of civil claims against them?

[goo3]

Originally Posted by RacingMetro92

I know what Sandusky did was wrong, but for a public institution to be punished by a private, non-government run organization to punish the school as a whole for this? It just isnt right.

The school doesn't have to participate in NCAA athletics!!! If you want to receive the benefits of the football program, you're obligated to conduct yourself in a certain way. What you're saying is they should get all of the benefits but none of the responsibility. The NCAA isn't overstepping its bounds; it has the right to dish out the punishment they did. Remember, this is about the cover up that went on for years, not about the crime! The law took care of the crime.

If they didn't want to hurt the whole school, then maybe the administrators, students, players, coaches, etc shouldn't have let the glamor of football blind themselves to something else more important and held the program to a higher standard than they did.

The NCAA has the power and ability to send a message that you can't just make excuses and wash your hands because "I conveniently didn't know what was going on." Well, maybe they should have made it their business to know instead of complaining about it afterwards.

[Redlines_Daily]

Keep in mind that the NCAA cannot force these punishments upon the school(the fine for example). The school chose to accept these consequences in order to stay in the NCAA football league. Otherwise, they are completely welcome to continue their football program if they wish, but they would no longer be in the NCAA.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by goo3

If they didn't want to hurt the whole school, then maybe the administrators, students, players, coaches, etc shouldn't have let the glamor of football blind themselves to something else more important and held the program to a higher standard than they did.

Sure, but that doesn't take away from the fact that future athletes who would normally be getting scholarships from the school will no longer get those scholarships....and future athletes get no post-season....These are people who had absolutely nothing to do with anything...

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by goo3

The school doesn't have to participate in NCAA athletics!!! If you want to receive the benefits of the football program, you're obligated to conduct yourself in a certain way. What you're saying is they should get all of the benefits but none of the responsibility. The NCAA isn't overstepping its bounds; it has the right to dish out the punishment they did. Remember, this is about the cover up that went on for years, not about the crime! The law took care of the crime.

If they didn't want to hurt the whole school, then maybe the administrators, students, players, coaches, etc shouldn't have let the glamor of football blind themselves to something else more important and held the program to a higher standard than they did.

The NCAA has the power and ability to send a message that you can't just make excuses and wash your hands because "I conveniently didn't know what was going on." Well, maybe they should have made it their business to know instead of complaining about it afterwards.

Let me ask you this, if all sports in college were just club sports, would the NCAA exist? Probably not. The only reason they exist is because of the massive amount of money that is being pumped into the schools.

What criminal charges did EVERYONE else at Penn State outside of those involved in the cover up commit to have 20 scholarships taken away, a 4 year bowl ban and 60 million gone? They've screwed the kids who are already there and have committed for 2+ years.

The NCAA process for dealing out punishment used to be very slow (committees, hearings, figuring out the ramifications of the punishment), but because this case was in the national spotlight they threw that out the window and went essentially what was on the Freeh report.

I'm not saying anything about benefits and responsibility. What I'm saying is, those DIRECTLY involved are either dead, their careers are in shambles or will get theirs in court. Those who "conveniently" didn't know what was going on, are dealt with. The football program and Penn State as a whole as it stands AT PRESENT has NOTHING to do with what Sandusky did to those children. They only thought about the past, not about the now and future for the football program. It's pretty much dead for the next decade. I'm not saying that Penn State should get off scot free, they'll get sued for sure and lose tons of money in civil cases.

As I said, the whole cover up of this is just horrible overall, but the NCAA shouldn't be killing an entire football program NOW because of what happened in the past when those who were involved with that are long gone or are getting punished now. The main reason why Penn State took the sanctions was because they just wanted this to get behind them and not seem like monsters for trying to fight them and making their public even worse than it already is.

[goo3]

The main reason Penn State took the sanctions, took down Paterno's statue, fired him before he could retire, etc is because today's administrators have a head on their shoulders and know their priorities.

The buck stops somewhere and not having direct involvement in something is not an excuse. That's how responsibility and accountability in an organization works. The reputation of the school and the future health of the football program is more than fair game. Not punishing them for their past actions because they managed to cover it up long enough where it only hurts current students and athletes is backwards thinking. If you're worried about that, there's other ways to mitigate the damage to the innocent. The first overriding priority by far is to send a message to Penn State and more importantly the other schools that if they fuck up like this, they are gonna pay. So don't fuck up.

College sports a great way to learn about competition and it's a healthy part of a school, until the ppl in charge inside and outside of athletics treat football like a drug and snort it like cocaine. These are the ppl to blame for killing the program, not the NCAA.

[RacingMetro92]

So the best way to blame those responsible for this is to punish the people who weren't involved? I'm a biased here because I hate the NCAA because some of their rulings over the years have driven me absolutely nuts but what they've done here is hurt an athletics program and has affected those who they claim to protect; the athletes. They've basically allowed Sandusky to out his mark on this program even though he has nothing to do with it. the NCAA is a Private non government Organization who only did this to show they exist. An organization with ACTUAL authority should be enforcing punishments, not the NCAA.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Redlines_Daily

Keep in mind that the NCAA cannot force these punishments upon the school(the fine for example). The school chose to accept these consequences in order to stay in the NCAA football league. Otherwise, they are completely welcome to continue their football program if they wish, but they would no longer be in the NCAA.

But if they chose to bow out of the NCAA, then the appeal to play there would be diminished quite badly. The school realized this, so that's why they accepted the punishment.

I'm not quite sure what to think of the punishment levied against Penn State. On the one hand, something obviously had to be done. There's no question about that. To be honest, I think them losing a good chunk of their wins and championships will hurt them more than the monetary fine. While I'm sure many of their donators will stop handing out money, there's enough people out there that the fine shouldn't be too hard on them. As for knocking down scholarships, sure it hurts potential students, but the NCAA is allowing current students to transfer to another Uni with no penalties if they choose to. While it sucks, I think it's fair enough. Sure, you're hurting 90 potential students, but I doubt most potential stars are going to apply for Penn State for at least half a dozen years, especially with the playoff ban.

I dunno, the more I try to think about it from both sides, I think the NCAA levied a relativley fair punishment against PSU. It sucks, yes, but ultimately I'd say it was fair.

[Redlines_Daily]

I'd say it's fair too!

If a company does something wrong, say pollute the environment...then the CEO dies. Should the company not face fines/punishment even though the guy calling the shots isn't there anymore? What if the fines hurt the company enough that they have to lay off 50 employees..should we now reconsider the fine because innocent people are being 'punished'?

I think the consequence is the consequence, it's unfortunate that other people are being affected but sometimes life is just unfair. The athletes are free to transfer to other schools if they like, and the ones with any real potential will be welcomed with open arms. Less football scholarships? Who cares, like I said the good ones will get a scholarship elsewhere, the ones who aren't will have to come up with another plan like the rest of us who paid for our own schooling.

"It's unfair to punish an entire football program over what someone else did". This..this is why the punishment is so harsh IMO. Because the culture around college athletics in the states has become "football/basketball is more important than anything else". Well the NCAA is saying "No, it's not".

[mikemhg]

What I think is interesting is the fact that the school averages something like $60+ million per year from the Football. Meanwhile the athletes can't even take a sponsorship deal while playing for the team?

That's fucking bullshit in my opinion, if the school can cash out, why can't the athletes, especially when a lot of them may only have a short window of time physically?

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

What I think is interesting is the fact that the school averages something like $60+ million per year from the Football. Meanwhile the athletes can't even take a sponsorship deal while playing for the team?

That's fucking bullshit in my opinion, if the school can cash out, why can't the athletes, especially when a lot of them may only have a short window of time physically?

It's the issue of "protecting amateurism" and not allowing benefits that a student-athlete can get that isn't available to a regular student...or so the NCAA claims. The football team is the lifeblood of any university funding. For example, Penn State brought in just over $73 million in revenue last season. With the fine+the Big Ten fine, last years books technically didn't exist.

Athletes can't even get a stipend because the NCAA doesn't allow it. Even with schools making a massive amount of money off these kids, the NCAA won't allow it because of "amateurism." The only kind of free stuff they can get is if they make conference championships because the tournament would give it to them. In the case of football teams, those post season bowl games are corporate sponsored so each player gets a swag bag and even that has a limit on what can be in it because of NCAA rules. for that check this out:

2011 Bowl gifts to participants - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal | SportsBusiness Daily Global

Bowls are lucrative and players want to go them because it not only gives them exposure on the national scale, but its a reward and the stuff they get from them is about as good as it gets besides the scholarship they have (forget about having a job, its 6AM practice, 9AM class, practice/film again at 3, then an evening rundown before doing homework).

I'm not saying players are spoiled because they're going to school for free, but they work hard to go to those post season games because its a goal, like every other athlete, that they want to achieve and the NCAA has taken away those opportunities from current players. Even if they latch on, playing time at their new schools isn't guaranteed either.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by RacingMetro92

So the best way to blame those responsible for this is to punish the people who weren't involved? I'm a biased here because I hate the NCAA because some of their rulings over the years have driven me absolutely nuts but what they've done here is hurt an athletics program and has affected those who they claim to protect; the athletes. They've basically allowed Sandusky to out his mark on this program even though he has nothing to do with it. the NCAA is a Private non government Organization who only did this to show they exist. An organization with ACTUAL authority should be enforcing punishments, not the NCAA.

The private NCAA has authority over their own private program. If not them, then who? What makes you think the govt can go in and tell them what to do? Their authority is real.. we've just seen it.. it's not fake!

I think the part you don't understand is when you hire someone to work for your company, their actions represent your company for now and forever. So you better damn be sure they don't fuck your company up. The students & staff represent Penn State. Penn State represents the NCAA. That's how things work because:

Imagine if it's like you say and only certain individuals get punished. Then there's no incentive to hire responsible ppl and eliminate bad behavior. For example, BP can keep hiring ppl who fuck things up time after time because they can deliver better results at no extra risk to them. Other oil companies see the same and will employ incentives for these guys to keep behaving that way. Yeah, it sucks for the employees who lose jobs, won't get raises, etc, who had nothing to do with what happened, but that's life.

If a Dad with 5 kids commits murder, should he not go to jail because the kids will be punished? You stick the Dad in the cellar and manage the effect on the kids. Blame the Dad, not the judge who dishes out the punishment.

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by goo3

The private NCAA has authority over their own private program. If not them, then who? What makes you think the govt can go in and tell them what to do? Their authority is real.. we've just seen it.. it's not fake!

I think the part you don't understand is when you hire someone to work for your company, their actions represent your company for now and forever. So you better damn be sure they don't fuck your company up. The students & staff represent Penn State. Penn State represents the NCAA. That's how things work because:

Imagine if it's like you say and only certain individuals get punished. Then there's no incentive to hire responsible ppl and eliminate bad behavior. For example, BP can keep hiring ppl who fuck things up time after time because they can deliver better results at no extra risk to them. Other oil companies see the same and will employ incentives for these guys to keep behaving that way. Yeah, it sucks for the employees who lose jobs, won't get raises, etc, who had nothing to do with what happened, but that's life.

If a Dad with 5 kids commits murder, should he not go to jail because the kids will be punished? You stick the Dad in the cellar and manage the effect on the kids. Blame the Dad, not the judge who dishes out the punishment.

Problem, Penn State doesn't represent the NCAA, Penn State represents wait for it... PENN STATE. Penn State does not work for the NCAA, they are there in ONLY athletics, no other connections are made. It's a state funded and run university, not private. There have been cries that the local Pennsylvania government has done little to deal with their own university, and they're the ones who have power. All the NCAA has the authority to do is exist and give out punishments and hope the schools accept them. Of course, they usually do because like Lomac said, it's about the appeal of playing at the highest level. You realize the NCAA brought in over $700 million in revenue last season right? And guess how much the student athletes see? Zero.

So by taking away these scholarships and banning post season play they've handcuffed Penn State and taken away educational opportunities.

Your analogy about BP is flawed because the amount of fuck ups vs. work done isn't exactly a good one. Who in their right mind would hire a constant fuck up at the cost of their reputation? In the case of Penn State, those involved are gone, dead or have nothing to do with the program now. My main argument is that the NCAA is wrongly punishing those who aren't involved. Which is what makes the NCAA punishment wrong.

My main problem with this is that the crime (child molestation) is a criminal issue, not an NCAA issue. The NCAA is only supposed to protect amateurism in the NCAA. Penn State didn't break a specific NCAA bylaw. The Death Penalty in the NCAA happens if there is a lack of institutional control. The biggest case this was used was the recruiting practices of SMU in the late 80's, an investigation that took 2 years. Wins are taken away if an ineligible player is used. Did Penn State break either of these? Nope. I understand that academics should always take precedence over athletics, but why didn't the government give out these punishments, then I'd have no problem with it. But the NCAA and how they do their investigations drives me nuts and their inconsistency with rulings has made it hard to accept that they have any sort of power.