I'm sure that's the plan for many people but it's easier said than done. If someone bought a house for 1.5M and they mortgaged 1.2M, the bank may not renew their mortgage if the property is all of the sudden worth $900k. If they paid off $200k of their 1.2M, I don't think the bank will continue to lend 1M for a property worth $900k unless they somehow come up with the $100k difference. With the negative savings rate in this province, it's not likely a homeowner would have that kind of money laying around.

If they did manage to get a renewal, they'll have to go through it again in another 5 years when the property may be worth even less. This is the equivalent to the stock market traders saying... "Don't catch a falling knife"

With real estate being the biggest industry in Canada, falling prices may take the economy with it. People may be forced to sell at a loss if they lose their jobs.

No apartment these days will cover its costs if you take a 75% mortgage of the cost to buy it. People who bought a unit 10 years ago and are financing based on an old value may "cover their costs" but that's only because they are not actually considering the right calculation - they need to consider its value today since that is the opportunity cost of renting it (if you sell, you'd sell at today's value, not at the price you paid 10 years ago).

My condo would likely rent for $2250 a month, maybe a little more. When you consider a strata fee of $300, that means the max mortgage my place would support is approx $400K (3.5%, 30 years).

On the other hand, we will list it at $699K and expect we will get something in that ballpark. To rent the place and have it cover its costs, it will cost me $300K in cash today which I would have to otherwise keep locked up in my place to just barely break even. That's not an attractive tradeoff for me which is why we are selling.

-Mark

boom! finally everything approved as of today we good to go!!!!!!

@CIC

Your technical analysis on predicting prices is ludicrous.

@lowside67

Return would only be about 3.5%. I don't think it's worth locking up and being exposed an extra $700k in real estate if you don't have to. It'd be best to diversify the holdings

Just look at some docs for the apartment I sold. Sold it for 615k and the buyer is getting a mortgage of 390k that's 63%. Assuming they are able to rent for $1900 a month.

Using TD bank mortgage calculator with a rate of 3.64% 25 year monthly rate is $2,159.83 / Monthly. So the rental income doesn't really cover the mortgage fees, strata fees, property tax etc etc. I say the buyer have to pay around $600 to $700 each month.

^
That would be about a 6% ROI. Not worth the risk.
https://gyazo.com/a9fa0a3dd62c0ee5c709ef79299a8a75
https://gyazo.com/a9fa0a3dd62c0ee5c709ef79299a8a75

most stressful time on buying a house evaaaaaar! For future reference for you guys try to have a bigger gap on when you have to get your subjects removed lol....doing it in a weeks time was probably the dumbest thing we could have done. Today we had to change from using a notary to lawyer because the notary was going to charge us money to go over certain things on the documents. While the lawyer was going to do it for free and was a lot more helpful. Stupid notary bitch didn't want to do work and just wanted to get paid for nothing so fuck her lol....other then that fucking relieved and ready to pay cheaper car insurance, cheaper gas, better quality life ect....

I don't understand your spreadsheet.

How is a negative cash flow (every month the costs to carry that place are higher than the rent) able to generate a positive ROI when there is no assumption about a sale price built into it?

-Mark

Any economic analysis that tries to predict the future is in the same boat as the system is rigged.

Wow you did it in a week? you sir are crazy!!! I did it in 2 weeks and I still find I barely made it with time (mostly paper work from one lawyer to the next) a lot of back and forth with my lawyers and getting the right doc to my agent and the lawyers asking for questions but have to wait for a few days to get any answer back and that's if you chase them......

That's not very good service...

^^ try ordering some forms strata management. Take for example it takes 7 business days to order a Form B. However if you pay extra (I think with mine is like $190) you can get it next business day. I was actually lucky that I order it right away when I put my apartment on the market. Also I email and call my strata manager about the requirements for the underlay for hardwood install. Still haven't heard a thing back. I wrote a very angry email to the management earlier today. They reply and will look into it. I will see what happens tomorrow. Unless you push and nag nothing will happen coz they have a million things to do.

probably a different situation but i went to a notary that got the property transfer and title within 2 days. mine was a basic 1 bedroom unit in a condo so maybe it was easier? i placed a subject free offer and within a week the sale was complete....

Just realized I used an old version of the spreadsheet. So what I sent is all messed up. I've been randomly working on it while at work during my downtime, just for fun. Safe to assume there is errors.

The sale price is assumed at $615k based on the discussion prior in the last page.The ROI calculation considers the amount of principal paid down monthly as well, on top of cash flow. But currently it's calculated as ((Cashflow + 12 Month Average of Principal Paid)*12) / (Down Payment).

https://gyazo.com/708714b884903b22d7ae2458622ae6db

Here's the updated spreadsheet :lawl:

yeah ideally speaking I would never leave it for a week again. I didn't know how many fucking hoops we had to go through with everything. Didn't help that mortgage broker was taking his sweet ass time on doing things. Also didn't know about this appraisal BS as well. Thought once approved by the bank shit would be over and done with until MB said we have to get an appraisal on the home. Once that was done he had to go back to the lender to make sure it was ok for them which was another waiting game. With how banks and the market is now I was surprised we got it done in a week myself lol

1 week, 2 or 3. Doesnt really matter, it seems like mortgage brokers, lawyers ect. leave shit till last minute because everything "should " take a day or 2 if everything goes smoothly but it never does. Then complete chaos ensues. You think theyd learn by now.

I remember having to jump thru hoops and ladders proving to my mortgage broker that i was legit, worse day of my life. Luckily my employer let me find alll the documents i needed to convince them i wasnt a drug dealer. Then lawyers needing bank drafts to be made, and delivered and signatures on the very last day before subjects have to be removed all during work hours obviously. Who has time to do all this? I spent a whole day proving i wasnt a drug dealer and now you act like i have all this free time to do it as i am one.....

getting my closing disclosure in a week
the amount of documents the bank want for self-contracted work is quite time consuming...they even wanted to see copies of cheques deposited

if you didnt take a picture of them how does someone get copies of thier deposited cheque? and how far back do they want ? 2 yrs?

any major bank should keep a copy
they were asking all 2018 income cheques for verification

Man al you guys sound like you had a nightmare lol. Our good friend is a long time mortgage broker with the TMG group. She literally took care of everything. We paid a bit more but her lawyer and notary did everything and the bank handled all the evaluations etc.

The only thing we had to do was find 1 notary on our own for a transfer of title to ensure there was no conflict of interest, but that was essentially it

Yeah, I don't remember selling/buying being that difficult other then the stress of selling waiting for the deal to go through 100%. My situation was pretty much the same mind you I haven't bought or sold anything in 11 years maybe it's different now?

Our situation was a bit rushed lol...We were kind of planning the move to Kelowna for a few years with my brother pretty much telling us every time we went there "you could have all of this...." meaning actual detached house, back yard, NO STRATA, reasonably priced homes ect. I just said to myself how could we just get up and move without jobs and what not. Obviously I could ask for a transfer and the wife could work in dental anywhere. So we decided pretty much in July I know kind of shitty with the timing on the RE market but way she goes. Decided and went for it in the span of 2 months from patching holes, repainting, staging, going back and forth from Kelowna to look at houses, listing (closing in a week), buying our house (closing in a week) till now.

My cousin is trying to do the same thing that we are doing with his condo a few blocks away from us. They listed a few weeks after ours sold and they literally getting no hits on their place. A few open houses with some private showings but no hits...feel bad since he has to commute to Chilliwack everyday. His realtor said market is slow as fuck and timing on it kind of sucked. He will have to do some reducing on his place if he wants to move it or just wait till spring to see if anything changes...

If anything prices will continue the downward trend to next spring and beyond. That's what my realtor friends tell me and I believe them based on the many factors placing a downward pressure on prices right now.

My keys were recently stolen which had my fob, front/back door keys and mailbox key for my condo. Since then I have replaced my dead bolt for the front and back door and deactivated the fob. I reached out to strata for a replacement mailbox key in which they replied to me to reach out to Canada Post as they do not hold onto the spare key. I was told by CP that they only replace keys for mailboxes located outside the building. Strata is suggesting I seek a locksmith. I live in the Metrotown area. Does anyone have suggestions for a locksmith and what's the typical price? Thanks!

I'd believe it, as someone who's been watching the market in my area closely over the past 6 months homes are not moving. Most everything listing is sitting for months upon months, many have not adjusted their price for the changes in the market.