Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

I think this program will be back. They've "cancelled" it before. Years ago this program used to only require them to lend the Government $250,000. Then they raised it to $500,000. Then they "cancelled" it and brought it back silently, raising the required amount to $800,000. I'm sure this is just a play by the current government before the elections, they will bring the program back and probably raise the requirement again.

They actually stop taking application since 2012. BUT FOR people who apply before 2012 their applications are still being processed.

The feds pick this time to cancel the program is because our economy is slightly better than the last few years. Just image what would happen of the feds decided to cancel the program back in 2010 or even 2012 it would have shit our market and economy because it would turn investor away. Now that our economy is more stable we can cut the program completely and have less of an impact to our overall economy.

The citizen that this program doesn't help the gov in the long run is more of a burden. Instead of actually using that 800k to invest in Canada (ie open a resturant, trades company etc etc...) just giving the gov 800k doesn't simulate local economy because no local is being hired, no money is put into the community........ not to mention you get the money back in 5years. What happens after 5 years is people bring their family in while the husband/wife goes back to where they came from leaveing Canada to deal with their family. Since the main person who makes money isn't in Canada you can't tax him and the family doesn't work so they get all these benfits without contributing at all.

Beside if you really want to apply as an investment immigration you can still do it just that you actually have to invest in the local economy like hiring someone and opening a business.

Also the feds are finding ways to stop people coming into Canada and having a baby and claim Canadian citizenship (much like what Hong Kong did to people from China coming to Hong Kong having their kids and use Hong Kong's benfit).

[4444]

Originally Posted by Traum

As I understood it, the head tax was discriminatory because it specifically and universally targeted a racial group -- the Chinese. Legalities aside, if a hefty sum was charged to rich immigrants as part of some sort of investor immigration program, that would likely not be viewed as racially discriminatory because it'd universally apply to anyone from any racial background.

Conceptually, I disagree with a policy like that because to me, that is still buying your way into a Canadian citizenship. Instead of being purchased, I'd say that our Canadian passports ought to be earned. Money should not be the determining factor.

Traum gets it, Lomac doesn't (not sure how you could equate this to the head tax)

And I completely agree, Canadian residency should be based on merit and demand - we need, say, engineers, doctors, whatever skills it is we need, and you happen to be said skilled worker from a recognized country for that skill - boom, you have the ability to come here AND WORK

if you're mega rich, then come in, buy a company, put your capital to work, provide GDP growth that way, become CEO of said company, hire workers, make sales, pay tax, be a good boy!!!

[Gululu]

Seattle to benefit from end of Canadian immigration program
The federal government has cancelled the immigration investor program

SEATTLE (NEWS1130) – Seattle could benefit from the Canadian government’s decision to put an end to the immigrant investor program. The initiative had allowed millionaires to lend the government $800,000 for five years in exchange for permanent residency.

Seattle realtors believe wealthy foreigners could very well opt to park their money in the Emerald City.

Becky Lee is a broker with Seattle’s Realogic Sotheby’s Realty and has spent over 30 years in the business.

She expects rich Chinese nationals, who would have normally come to Vancouver looking to plunk down money on real estate, to now consider Seattle.

“Some of them will come to Seattle, because we are close to each other, our climates are similar, and our property is much cheaper than yours and rentals are much higher than yours,” she explains.

She points out being able to take out residency in countries such as Canada or the US is very important for wealthy Chinese nationals.

“The Chinese government is very heavy-handed. Chinese nationals are not allowed to own property. Their property reverts back to the government after 70 years. There are pollution problems and poor living conditions. Once they have money, they travel to the west coast of North America. It’s heaven to them.”

The US has a similar immigration investment program, whereby foreigners who invest at least $500,000 are issued a green card.

Lee admits one thing Seattle doesn’t have is a suburb like Richmond with its wide variety of Chinese shops and cuisine.

Seattle to benefit from end of Canadian immigration program | News1130

[4444]

Originally Posted by Gululu

Seattle to benefit from end of Canadian immigration program | News1130

thing is, because america is a melting pot (not a perfect one by any means) - but it means there won't be a richmond - the americans just won't stand for it... i mind this less than what has happened in vnacouver where some parts are just unwelcoming for non-chinese people (just my honest opinion as a Caucasian person and how i felt in some richmond establishments in recent years)

[noclue]

The US version of the immigrant visa is way more strict and even more backlogged than Canada. Seattle won't explode with mainlanders anytime soon aside from international students.

That news article is BS too, $500k is for poor areas with high unemployment, $1M for better places and the hardest thing is that you must hire/keep 10 full time americans. Otherwise you get a shitty E2 visa.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by 4444

Traum gets it, Lomac doesn't (not sure how you could equate this to the head tax)

I was drunk and being sarcastic

[subordinate]

Did a couple of your posts around 4am get deleted 4444?

I thought they were good posts.

[4444]

Originally Posted by subordinate

Did a couple of your posts around 4am get deleted 4444?

I thought they were good posts.

not that i'm aware

[4444]

Originally Posted by Lomac

I was drunk and being sarcastic

ah, sarcasm, the one thing that has never and will never work on the internet, yet nobody seems to care

[Carl Johnson]

Seattle got nothing on LA. Los Angeles will most likely be the biggest beneficiary of this news. Huge Asian community so you don't have to learn any English to get around. Much more forgiving weather and better lifestyle compare to Vancouver imo.

US EB-5 visas are hard as fuck to get, something we Canadians should adopt.

[Harvey Specter]

LA is having a massive real estate boom, same for other parts of California. It's one of the most desirable places to live if you got money plus it's not just asian money that's floating in, you have all sorts of international buyers for that market.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Lord Disick

LA is having a massive real estate boom, same for other parts of California. It's one of the most desirable places to live if you got money plus it's not just asian money that's floating in, you have all sorts of international buyers for that market.

while it is hot right now (slightly bubbly) - always been a very expensive place to buy... but it is different there - people ACTUALLY do want to live there (outside of canada and some people from around the world, Vancouver isn't really that 'in demand' as a place to live b/c of lack of economy - retirees is such a low percentage)

i don't think it's ever been 'cheap' to buy in California. personally, i'd never buy in Cali for investment purpose due to tax reasons... but god i love that place, can't say the same for vancouver

[iEatClams]

I really dont think there will be a big correction (by that I mean greater than 10% decrease) until the overnight rate (prime-rate) increases.

If bond rates increase, and hence, fixed mortgage rates increase, there will be a better advantage to switch over to variable mortgage rates and therefore it wont affect mortgage payments dramatically. The only way to dramatically increase the mortgage payments is to have the variable and fixed rates both go up.

This is why I think for the next couple years market will only be decreasing 2-4% per year instead of 10% a year.

So the real question is, when does the overnight rate start increasing? Is there any finance guys in the room that know when the BOC will start increasing the overnight rate?

most economists predict that it will stay the same for the next 18 months.

[EvoFire]

BoC already committed to the fact that they won't raise rates until 2015, so I'd say you are looking at least another 12 months away.

[godwin]

If you are getting a place in the US as a Canadian, do yourself a favor and consult a lawyer and get your US portfolio firewall-ed from the rest of your Canadian / global portfolio ahead of time. The several thousand and pre-positioning will save you so much headache and honestly plundering from the revenue agency.

I am looking at Argentina for real estate now.. their peso has lost so much value, it makes everything a bargain. Their unofficial exchange rate is insane, since they are so short on foreign exchange. Even production vineyards or downtown apartments, it is crazy! US is not as much of a bargain as when US and CAD still had parity, or 4444 failed me a few pages back

I prefer agricultural land like vineyard and ranches over industrial properties in general since we all know US will never be industrialized like before, so why buy capacity while there is a huge demand for food? There are also a huge glut of people who are qualified to manage and improve these properties for you too. Land with a good water source, those are the ones I prefer.

[godwin]

Honestly it will probably beyond 2015, because all finance ministers prefer Canadian $ to be in the 0.7-0.8 range, especially when the big unions out east like UAW are renegotiating. Since BC have negligible export manufacturing we are just along for the ride.

The longer you do compounding appreciation, you will need more catastrophic price correction, which will be less likely to happen.

The reality is if you are born after the 80s, unless you in a profession that have earning power starting 100k+ pa or you manage to bat a home run like Hootsuite or QLT before. It is unlikely you will be able to buy a home in Vancouver. If you want to live and raise a family in the city, I suggest you consider forming a coop and apply to have land leased to you for a song. (joining one is too late now, eg the one on Fraser has 500+ people in the waiting list). Creative thinking is required, it is better to explore what you can do with your circumstances than hoping for something to happen.

Revscene coop?

Originally Posted by EvoFire

BoC already committed to the fact that they won't raise rates until 2015, so I'd say you are looking at least another 12 months away.

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by godwin

The reality is if you are born after the 80s, unless you in a profession that have earning power starting 100k+ pa or you manage to bat a home run like Hootsuite or QLT before. It is unlikely you will be able to buy a home in Vancouver. If you want to live and raise a family in the city, I suggest you consider forming a coop and apply to have land leased to you for a song.

Best post in this entire thread

[Traum]

Originally Posted by godwin

The reality is if you are born after the 80s, unless you in a profession that have earning power starting 100k+ pa or you manage to bat a home run like Hootsuite or QLT before. It is unlikely you will be able to buy a home in Vancouver. If you want to live and raise a family in the city, I suggest you consider forming a coop and apply to have land leased to you for a song.

If you mean "single detached house" by "home", then yes, I'd agree with you. But if you just mean some sort of real estate property, then I'd say you are overlooking the entire townhouse and condo/apartment market.

A friend of mine lives in an older apartment building (40+ years old) at 49th and Elliot -- arguably a pretty good area in East Van. A quick MLS search found two 850-ish sq ft. ground level units for <$300k.

V1041100, # 118 2600 E 49TH AV, Vancouver, British Columbia V5S1J8
V1036014, # 123 2600 E 49TH AV, Vancouver, British Columbia V5S1J8

I can't say whether that is an excellent deal or not because I haven't physically been inside the unit to see what it is like, but at $300k and 850-ish sq ft with a $300-ish/month strata fee, and I think it is a reasonable place for regular Joes to buy and raise a family there. If someone prefers to own and live in the city, I'm sure other similar places can be found.

[Carl Johnson]

predicting when the interest rate will go up is a fool's game. all we know at this time is rates probably won't go much lower and the chances for them go up is a lot higher than going down in the next 5 years. a lot of economist did not see 2008 coming so i wouldn't put too much stock in their predictions.

when it comes to buying houses just buy what you can afford and get emotions out the process. most people are theory driven but not data driven. they think if everyone else is buying then they must buy as well but not actually sitting down and figure out how much income they need if rate doubles or if one spouse loses his/her job. so instead of worrying about interest rate or economy, look within yourself and figure out what is suitable for your family.

[Iceman-19]

Originally Posted by Traum

If you mean "single detached house" by "home", then yes, I'd agree with you. But if you just mean some sort of real estate property, then I'd say you are overlooking the entire townhouse and condo/apartment market.

A friend of mine lives in an older apartment building (40+ years old) at 49th and Elliot -- arguably a pretty good area in East Van. A quick MLS search found two 850-ish sq ft. ground level units for <$300k.

V1041100, # 118 2600 E 49TH AV, Vancouver, British Columbia $ V5S1J8
V1036014, # 123 2600 E 49TH AV, Vancouver, British Columbia $ V5S1J8

I can't say whether that is an excellent deal or not because I haven't physically been inside the unit to see what it is like, but at $300k and 850-ish sq ft with a $300-ish/month strata fee, and I think it is a reasonable place for regular Joes to buy and raise a family there. If someone prefers to own and live in the city, I'm sure other similar places can be found.

This is EXACTLY why I choose to rent. I can have a new place for less then what they want for that old dump.

[Traum]

^^ LOL~

I wouldn't quite call that an "old dump", and there are pros and cons to both home ownership and renting. As long as you've considered your preference and ran your numbers carefully (and logically), either decision could be just as good and rational.

[4444]

Originally Posted by godwin

US is not as much of a bargain as when US and CAD still had parity, or 4444 failed me a few pages back

could your rewrite that in english please - i have no idea what you're trying to say.

please, invest in argentina - if you're at all knowledgeable about risks then you might be ok, but you do realize how closed off argentina is, how they have nationalized certain assets (i believe they did it to Vale at a recent mine - 'build the mine or we're taking all your Argentinian assets), also, I wouldn't trust ANYTHING based in a currency as risky as the Argentinian peso (??) - try to stick to dollar, yen, or euro, so much risk with emerging markets right now, they could try to devalue their currency to get them out of an economic slump.

but, it's up to you - fuck, the complications of owning argentinian assets are probably many and complex. not sure what your concerns with US is - it isn't easy for an average idiot to do it, but there are many professionals around (including me) that can lay out the risks for you in US investment and how best to do it (no, i'm not interested in helping anyone)

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Iceman-19

This is EXACTLY why I choose to rent. I can have a new place for less then what they want for that old dump.

But the new place is not really yours and never will be.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Manic!

But the new place is not really yours and never will be.

When you buy a new place it's not yours until the mortgage is paid off either.

[Iceman-19]

Originally Posted by Manic!

But the new place is not really yours and never will be.

Thats fine with me, if I ever own, it will be something with property, not a box in a building.