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Old 01-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #76
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I have always been told you work hard and smart you can get ahead, Is there get rich gimmicks yes but you have to be in first and out before the police show up.
Best to find what you love and go to work for yourself IMO .
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:34 AM   #77
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If Lyoness is a scam then how come one of the Revscene sponsors are among their loyalty merchants?

Grand Performance Auto Centre: Lyoness Benefits
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:46 AM   #78
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If Lyoness is a scam then how come one of the Revscene sponsors are among their loyalty merchants?

Grand Performance Auto Centre: Lyoness Benefits
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:50 AM   #79
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Consumers' Research Magazine. Jun99, Vol. 82 Issue 6, p12.
By: John Walsh

Quote:
Multi-level marketing--also called network marketing or the shorthand MLM--takes an almost evangelistic approach to selling. It's been around for a long time. But, for most of the past 50 years, it's been frowned upon as a sleazy way to do business. This reputation is due, in part, to how much MLM resembles a Ponzi scheme.

In the 1970s, the frowning started to fade. MLM began gaining credibility in mainstream business circles. From a corporate perspective, the strength of MLM is that it shortcuts the traditional retail distribution mechanism with all of its attendant support costs--marketing, sales, inventory, and distribution.

Several interlocking trends have contributed to the growth of MLM, including technology advances, economic changes, job insecurity, and the twin desires for financial security and control of one's destiny. (Frankly, some of these trends have also encouraged Ponzi schemes.)

There's no doubt that technology has made MLM more appealing to potential recruits who would otherwise be reluctant to handle the chores of sales, recruiting, inventory, deliveries, and record keeping. In the age of Windows, these things can be managed in 10 minutes a week, using any of numerous $99 software packages.

But the economic motives are more powerful. "We're seeing a much more highly educated group of people coming in," says Neil Often, president of the Direct Selling Association, an MLM lobbying group. "We're seeing a lot of middle-management executives who've been laid off because of corporate downsizing. The American reality of 'you work hard, play by the rules, and your talent will get you to the top' is not true any more in the corporate world."

As experienced managers are downsized or forced to take early retirement, they take with them tidy retirement packages. They also have expanded networks of business acquaintances and friends...and the entrepreneurial determination never to be downsized again.

A caveat: According to the Direct Selling Association, 90% of MLM distributors earn less than $5,000 a year. Another--bigger--caveat: MLM is a ripe hunting ground for Ponzi perps. The lines of demarcation between legitimate MLM and illegitimate pyramid schemes have always been...and remain...fuzzy.

MLM companies sell products into the distributor system at a discount deep enough to make the products or services inexpensive, compared to competing products. But this usually leaves enough margin to fund the commissions and bonuses that drive the system.

The company will also fund the commissions and bonuses by charging new distributors a nominal amount--usually less than $500--as a franchise fee for joining.

Not only does the MLM distributor receive accumulated commission on the sales made from his or her recruits, but also from the commission on the sales made by each recruit's recruits--and on down the line.

But the fat-check math that drives most MLM schemes is often calculated selectively to make the strongest impression. Consider another, disinterested, calculation: If one person recruits six distributors, each of whom recruits six others, the total number of people in the program is 43 by the third level. It's 9,331 by the fifth. And more than 10 million by the ninth.

That's the exploding hunger of geometric progression. It's the same thing that makes all Ponzi schemes eventually fail.

To overcome the hard numbers, most MLM programs appeal to recruits' hearts rather than their brains. Informational and motivational meetings are one of the most common methods for introducing potential recruits to an MLM program. This is where the evangelism comes into play. The meetings use many of the same motivation devices that religious revival meetings use.

Meetings often include songs and testimonials, stressing dedication to the business. Some companies go further, encouraging their distributors to follow an approved way of life.

"Every illegal pyramid is an MLM company," says Robert Ward, a Michigan assistant attorney general. "But not every MLM is an illegal pyramid." Ward says that, in his state, the average multi-level marketer remains in business just 18 to 24 months. This observation is generally true. The turnover rate in MLM sales is high; in most programs, as many people drop out as join up in a given year. Which means, eventually, the MLM is going to run out of distributors.

In the end, the difference between legit and bogus schemes is simple: an illegal pyramid focuses on recruitment of new members to make money; a legitimate MLM program focuses on selling product.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:12 PM   #80
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has anyone been recruited to join "Nu Skin"? Its also a pyramid scheme where they get ppl to buy their beauty products etc. A guy I know who I am not close with posted a picture of a cheque he got from them for $6000 rescently. I am just waiting for the day that he gets f*cked over

He also tried to recruit me into and I just ignored his message

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Old 05-13-2013, 06:07 PM   #81
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has anyone been recruited to join "Nu Skin"? Its also a pyramid scheme where they get ppl to buy their beauty products etc. A guy I know who I am not close with posted a picture of a cheque he got from them for $6000 rescently. I am just waiting for the day that he gets f*cked over

He also tried to recruit me into and I just ignored his message

Nuskin Scam? What You Must Know! - YouTube
Hes not going to get "fucked over" lol. The worse that can happen is he doesn't make as much as much money, or none at all.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:28 PM   #82
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Hes not going to get "fucked over" lol. The worse that can happen is he doesn't make as much as much money, or none at all.
...or he's got $12k worth of inventory in his garage that he can't move, and worse, put that order on mastercard.

That is getting fucked over.

Happens all the time, when the dream overtakes the reality. You have 50 people at these meetings telling you, "you can do it, champ!" Or, "you aren't successful because you aren't devoting enough time/money/effort into it" OR, the best one..."here, you need to listen to this tape...its $49.95...we'll add it to your order"

I hate to tell you guys but looks can be deceiving. It happens to more than just these people. You can have a pretty house...5% down man. Mercedes in the driveway? Sure. You lease that shit. Hell, you can rent a fucking tv for the living room. You can have all the toys in the world, and not have $5 to put gas in.

People get sucked in...super fucking easy.

So you go to these meetings, and people drive up in the brand new got-to-have bimmer, and you look and go 'wow'...yippee doo. I got dragged to a meeting, and the guy running it was a douche. My friend is doing well enough with it...'cause he's a douche. A nice douche. But serious, a douche. He talks people into it that he runs across in his day job, which happens to be meeting a lot of dull receptionists that dream of something more.

It's all show, and its being orchestrated for YOUR benefit.

I knew a realtor that was selling stuff on craigslist to pay the bills in early 2009 when everyone just hit the brakes on every purchasing decision. He had the pimpy apartment and the lexus...and was selling used crap on CL to keep the lights on. He was that close on cash flow.

But to the outside world..he was still rocking it.

It's a show.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:53 PM   #83
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^ reminds me of the time I went to an amway meeting where the local "Michael Jordan" of the business came in a pontiac sunfire with a missing hub cap. He was talking like he used $100 bills to wipe his ass. Since then I could never take MLM's seriously!
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:16 PM   #84
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Speaking of MLM scams, if you see Vector Marketing or Cutco advertising at your college or university campus ("college student work, guaranteed $17/hour"), AVOID! I speak from experience. They make you buy a demonstration set (WTF?!) and use your friends and family as initial contacts.

Same thing with Canadian Property Stars-basically, if they don't ask to see a resume at some point in the process, it's TGTBT. I have heard positive stories from CPS but it requires over the top work ethic and upper body strength.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #85
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^ I do not really understand how post-secondary institutions allow Vector Marketing to advertise their postings. It's almost as if the career services of schools are oblivious to their practices.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:23 PM   #86
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^ I do not really understand how post-secondary institutions allow Vector Marketing to advertise their postings. It's almost as if the career services of schools are oblivious to their practices.
In comparison-McDonalds offers paid training. After my training I got a paycheque for $190, minus CPP and UI. You make $10.25 as a crew memeber, uppable to $13-and you're not fucking hawking knives to people, you're working the register or cleaning the lobby (or working the grill or fryer if you do kitchen work)
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #87
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^ reminds me of the time I went to an amway meeting where the local "Michael Jordan" of the business came in a pontiac sunfire with a missing hub cap. He was talking like he used $100 bills to wipe his ass. Since then I could never take MLM's seriously!
heh, me and my bud went to an "ACN" thing once (there was free beer...) and this girl no more than 25 was saying how she makes 250k a year, and my buddy (who was somewhat drunk) went on a massive rant during the middle of the meeting about how "dr's go to school for 10 years to make that much, yet some girl with no schooling under her belt can make the same" lol, the questions he threw at her, and watching her attempt to answer them were just awesome lol.

if anyone knows of any of these pyramid scheme meetings coming up that offer free beer (usually the ones held at someones house), let me know im up for some free beer
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #88
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heh, me and my bud went to an "ACN" thing once (there was free beer...) and this girl no more than 25 was saying how she makes 250k a year, and my buddy (who was somewhat drunk) went on a massive rant during the middle of the meeting about how "dr's go to school for 10 years to make that much, yet some girl with no schooling under her belt can make the same" lol, the questions he threw at her, and watching her attempt to answer them were just awesome lol.

if anyone knows of any of these pyramid scheme meetings coming up that offer free beer (usually the ones held at someones house), let me know im up for some free beer
Here's a question I ask, that gets me dirty looks.

Inevitably, there will be a roll call on income.

"Sally, our top earner, cleared 35k last month!!! And John, John did 22 thousand!"

And all the other people in the room cheer.

And you put up your hand and ask, "what are the average earnings in this office?"

And you will get a variation that they don't like to talk averages, because its all the effort each person puts in, and averages can be easily skewed by one number, either higher or lower.

Basically, Sally ain't enough to average out the shit money that the 55 other clapping clowns aren't pulling in, and they don't want to give you that number because it shows you that, while they want to sell you Sally's success, the odds are heavily weighted to make you a clapping clown.

So ask them what the median income is.

And hello! dirty looks.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:31 PM   #89
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Here's a question I ask, that gets me dirty looks.

Inevitably, there will be a roll call on income.

"Sally, our top earner, cleared 35k last month!!! And John, John did 22 thousand!"

And all the other people in the room cheer.

And you put up your hand and ask, "what are the average earnings in this office?"

And you will get a variation that they don't like to talk averages, because its all the effort each person puts in, and averages can be easily skewed by one number, either higher or lower.

Basically, Sally ain't enough to average out the shit money that the 55 other clapping clowns aren't pulling in, and they don't want to give you that number because it shows you that, while they want to sell you Sally's success, the odds are heavily weighted to make you a clapping clown.

So ask them what the median income is.

And hello! dirty looks.
Oh god, that sounds to a T like the Cutco sales pitch I experienced in "training".
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:56 PM   #90
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Oh god, that sounds to a T like the Cutco sales pitch I experienced in "training".
You think these people re-invent the wheel each time?

New product, same old shit.

Honestly, I want to steal their shit and go pimp out cutlery.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #91
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ive come across a couple contacts who tried defending or shoving this pyramid shit down my throat

A common theme i've noticed:
Fresh university/post secondary grads who have no real career prospects at the moment. Maybe they are working an odd job, but nothing of the sort of profession they were hoping for. So these are prime targets for this pyramid bonanza who will ripely pick them off like rice farmers when they are riding in a helicoptor with a machine gun.
--they may feel kind of lost, and this is the kind of glimmer of hope they can turn to

ive come to the conclusion to just let them be, and let them figure it out for themselves that its a waste of their fucking skin. i tried even logically reasoning with one of them, and he just completely shut me out. it IS a cult. now i just tell these kinds of people, I am not interested. And do not bring this shit up with me again.
--because they have turned to this cult as a kind of haven for their career prospects, they are incredibly defensive of it.

eventually they will figure it out (hopefully)

Unless it is a family member or super close friend (your fucking broski), I would not invest too much energy in trying to convince them otherwise. And yes its been said in this thread before, it burns bridges

if anything, it shows the naivety of some people. im interested to see if this is generally a north american phenom or not, i definitely need to travel more on a side note
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[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:56 AM   #92
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If Lyoness is a scam then how come one of the Revscene sponsors are among their loyalty merchants?

Grand Performance Auto Centre: Lyoness Benefits
If one of RS's sponsors is getting scammed, that doesn't have anything to do with RS itself.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:49 AM   #93
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I have signed up with Lyoness and I treat it like a shopping club.
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #94
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my neighbor in one of my offices is vector marketing. lots of people go in for their 'training sessions' and pay for their knives. yes they ask for all of your contacts. they give you 'bonuses' to give them more contacts whether it be on fb or on your mobile. I'm surprised no one asked me yet...
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:03 PM   #95
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I once saw a dude post on another dudes facebook wall saying how they are going to be able to buy a BMW M3 by the end of the month working for USANA healthcare or some shit

Its been like 3 years since that time and they are still driving their parent's old car
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:57 PM   #96
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steps of life (something like this):

kindergarden
first bike
highschool
first job
first blow job
post seconary

and right after you grad you get thrown into the real world and the first thing in the jungle to try to eat you is a pyramid scheme.

it's like initiation to the real world. EVERYONE goes through this lesson in one way or another just like some class in school. lol!
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nipples neways...wat is with those fuck'n asians! i mean you would think they've never seen a dentist in their life. are dentists really that rare over there in ricey ricey and? looks like they're star trek ferrengi rejects! fuck'n have broken glass for teeth! goddaymn! and the smell....did a rat crawl in there and shit itself then marinate in its own shit as it decayed?ewwwwwwwwww! i swear...if one of those ferrengi asian girls gave head...when u pull the dick out it looks like it went thru a meat grinder! prolly shaved off a few slices of meat! *shudder*
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silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:47 AM   #97
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one can argue the current economic system is a pyramid scheme, but this one is just more pronounced
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[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
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