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Old 01-03-2013, 01:39 PM   #26
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how do you figure this is an engineering problem ?
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The engineers are more at fault for the falling ice than the accidents on the bridge today due to icy conditions.

Face it - many of us in Vancouver do NOT know how to drive in winter conditions.
They should have heated the whole bridge. Cables and the actual road. We pay so much for the tolls, they should be able to afford it!

Typical Vancouverite response.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:41 PM   #27
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Port Mann traffic chaos - Noon News Hour - Videos | Global BC

Fog and icy conditions — plus a lack of proper de-icing — on the Port Mann Bridge early Thursday morning caused a series of crashes, creating what one commuter called a “traffic nightmare.”

Emergency crews responded to multiple crashes involving about 25 vehicles on the slippery span in both directions, as traffic crawled across the bridge amid thick fog around 7 a.m.

After the fog and traffic cleared later in the morning, RCMP confirmed that 40 vehicles had been damaged and one person suffered minor injuries during the rush-hour pileup.

By mid-morning, the Transportation Investment Corporation, the agency that operates the bridge admitted that the bridge had not been properly de-iced — the salt solution was too weak.

Roads and bridges across Metro Vancouver were left icy after the temperature dipped well below zero overnight.

But although there were black ice conditions along other roadways, no other bridges suffered the same kind of driving chaos.

TiCorp apologized for the oversight and the hazard it created for drivers.

It was the second time since the new $3.3-billion bridge project officially opened in December that bad weather caused chaos on the world’s widest span.



Read more: Fog, ice and inadequate de-icing cause traffic chaos on new Port Mann Bridge
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:05 PM   #28
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So ... what, TiCorp sends out an apology letter "Sorry for fucking up 40 cars by leaving a skating rink out in the middle of the bridge, we'll do better next time, peace out" and that's it?
You don't think they would at least try help compensate for the damaged cars?...
So all the cars will just get their rates jacked up by ICBC or pay deductible to get their cars repaired?
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:12 PM   #29
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no deicing... and ice avalanches and tolls

sounds like a bad movie
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #30
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the roads on and leading up to the port mann are newly paved and poured too, so it's smooth already without ice. add a little bit of ice here and there and at least half the people in the GVRD would crash

but you've gotta blame someone, why not the engineers, right?

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Old 01-03-2013, 06:25 PM   #31
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Funny how you could get fined and/or sued if you don't shovel the snow in front of your house and somebody slips, but the company that owns the bridge doesn't de-ice the road, causes 40 cars to be damaged with 1 personal injury, and they just get a "damn sucks to be you" ?
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:26 PM   #32
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It's definitely taken its toll
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:06 PM   #33
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Still not seeing how this is the fault of anyone but the drivers.

I can't count the number of times I've gone over a bridge that had a sign that said: "Bridge deck may be slippery" or "Bridge deck prone to icing."

And what about after a fresh fall of snow or sudden temperature change? Are people supposed to expect that all roads and bridges will be 100% ice free all the time? What's next, complaining that the steep hill you decided to drive down that was iced up causing you to crash?

I would never drive in poor conditions and assume the road/bridge was in perfect condition, regardless of whether fresh gravel/salt or whatever was just applied.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:18 PM   #34
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Still not seeing how this is the fault of anyone but the drivers.

I can't count the number of times I've gone over a bridge that had a sign that said: "Bridge deck may be slippery" or "Bridge deck prone to icing."
If the bridge has a sign like this, 100% of the blame can be placed on the drivers because they were given due notice.

On the other hand, if there's no sign, then I could see why some blame could be put on the company managing the bridge.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:27 PM   #35
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If the bridge has a sign like this, 100% of the blame can be placed on the drivers because they were given due notice.

On the other hand, if there's no sign, then I could see why some blame could be put on the company managing the bridge.
Now that I think about it, the old Port Mann used to have electronic warning signs and lights that would indicate less than ideal conditions on the bridge (along with the occasional speed trap warning... )
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:43 PM   #36
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Ok, so they had signs to warn of the slippery bridge deck
fair enough

so what about the comments that clearly the bridge WASN'T prepared for properly well knowing the temp was dropping below zero

I think the latter is something TiCorp has to make sure the bridge is properly maintained to prevent such incidents from happening.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:12 PM   #37
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Funny how you could get fined and/or sued if you don't shovel the snow in front of your house and somebody slips, but the company that owns the bridge doesn't de-ice the road, causes 40 cars to be damaged with 1 personal injury, and they just get a "damn sucks to be you" ?
Are you fucking kidding me? Should whistler/blackcomb have to pay for car accidents in their parking lots when its icy? Cypress pay for towing when cars get stuck in snow in their lot? Drivers need to take responsibility for their actions. If its icy, slow down! The lack of accountability here is disgusting. The rest of Canada gets ice on their roads, and bridges too! Write a letter to city hall next time you slide on a wet Vancouver road and see what they tell you. If it doesn't say "fuck off" they are being too easy on you. Maybe we should start expecting nature to pay for our accidents if its bad weather. Or make deer and elk have insurance so if we hit them we don't get fucked over?

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Old 01-03-2013, 08:48 PM   #38
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Still not seeing how this is the fault of anyone but the drivers.

I can't count the number of times I've gone over a bridge that had a sign that said: "Bridge deck may be slippery" or "Bridge deck prone to icing."

And what about after a fresh fall of snow or sudden temperature change? Are people supposed to expect that all roads and bridges will be 100% ice free all the time? What's next, complaining that the steep hill you decided to drive down that was iced up causing you to crash?

I would never drive in poor conditions and assume the road/bridge was in perfect condition, regardless of whether fresh gravel/salt or whatever was just applied.
Mother nature causing icing is one thing, a works company fucking up in using a weak brine solution which actually makes the icing worse is another. There should definately be some liability on their part.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:04 PM   #39
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bahah I love that gif.....

It's so nice not crossing that fucking bridge to work!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:10 PM   #40
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right before 160th off ramp heading west bound there is a digital sign

right after brunette heading east bound there is a digital sign
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:27 PM   #41
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Are you fucking kidding me? Should whistler/blackcomb have to pay for car accidents in their parking lots when its icy? Cypress pay for towing when cars get stuck in snow in their lot? Drivers need to take responsibility for their actions. If its icy, slow down! The lack of accountability here is disgusting. The rest of Canada gets ice on their roads, and bridges too! Write a letter to city hall next time you slide on a wet Vancouver road and see what they tell you. If it doesn't say "fuck off" they are being too easy on you. Maybe we should start expecting nature to pay for our accidents if its bad weather. Or make deer and elk have insurance so if we hit them we don't get fucked over?
You are pulling this out of context. Obviously when you are driving up towards a MOUNTAIN, it's expected that it will be colder and icy, 90% of the time you are going up to ski or snowboard right?

Driving over a bridge to and from work is a completely different story. I'm not saying accountability isn't an issue, but 40 cars?! ... c'mon this ain't Richmond ... 40 cars is pretty ridiculous which would somewhat identify just how dangerous the conditions were. How do you not know that the cars were already going 20km/h and still end up sliding a few meters because the ice was that slippery?

How come there were no accidents reported on any of the other half dozen bridges around the city? TiCorp themselves admitted they fucked up the de-icing of the pavement, which could I could be wrong but doesn't that actually make the conditions WORSE because then there would be HALF-melted frost, turning into water then re-freezing again into black ice?
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:30 PM   #42
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It's definitely taken its toll
Mann, they really got to find a way to bridge all these problems. Maybe port over some real experts to solve them...
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:39 PM   #43
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I had a tricky time getting to my truck, slick as hell. Had a bad feeling something stupid like this would happen somewhere in the city.

Why doesn't vancouver use sand on the ice? I Seen that all the time in alberta. Sure it's ugly as hell in may but it at least gives you traction for the time being.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:54 PM   #44
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Mann, they really got to find a way to bridge all these problems. Maybe port over some real experts to solve them...
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:00 PM   #45
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You are pulling this out of context. Obviously when you are driving up towards a MOUNTAIN, it's expected that it will be colder and icy, 90% of the time you are going up to ski or snowboard right?
Just like you should expect a wet 0 degree day in Vancouver on a newly paved bridge deck to get slippery. If it was too dangerous for cars to get across with proper driving, then everyone would have crashed. Its the port mann, people are going 30 over at the worst of times and I guarantee that the 40 people that crashed, it was either their own fault, or the fault of another driver. How many thousands of cars got across that bridge fine today? Also, once the first cluster crashed, its all related right. If there were 40 individual accidents you'd have a point about the amount of cars proving the out of the ordinary danger on the bridge, but only mistakes from a handful of drivers would be needed to cause a chain reaction like this.

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Old 01-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #46
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Is it just me, or does the "new" Portmann bridge seem to be causing a lot more headaches then good.
They also reported a number of crashes and cars off the road around 264th... it's nothing to do with the "new bridge" and everything to do with ice on the road.

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It's much more basic than just driving skill - it's a bloody lack of common sense.
One traffic report on Global this morning, they said everything was moving along fine until one woman saw all the brake lights ahead, slammed on her brakes, and... well, you know the rest.

What Gh0stRider's article leaves out, but a spokesman covered in some details on the radio this afternoon, is that they put down what is generally considered to be sufficient de-icing solution, and that at 5am crews went through with salt trucks that are equipped with sensors to monitor the air temps, humidity, road surface temps, and other factors, and they all showed that things were fine and didn't require additional de-icing at that point.

It's not like there's just some guy sitting there in his warm kitchen watching Madryga on TV and thinking, "Nah, we won't bother with salt today...".
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:56 PM   #47
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What a disaster. Bad driver or bad bridge design or poor maintenance...
I'm just so glad I don't live anywhere near that bridge nor do I ever drive over it except maybe once a year, in the summer.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:17 PM   #48
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What a disaster. Bad driver or bad bridge design or poor maintenance...
I'm just so glad I don't live anywhere near that bridge nor do I ever drive over it except maybe once a year, in the summer.
So your contribution to this debate is how fortunate you are to not have to be a part of it...

The bridge was controversial from the beginning, and haters are going to jump on any chance to rip the bridge and everyone associated with it a new one.

Whether or not that's justified, I don't know. I don't remember the old bridge being this terrible, but maybe it just didn't make the news as much as it does now.

Of those that crashed, I will bet some of them had improper tires. Some may have been speeding and others were most likely inexperienced retard drivers who panicked and stomped on the brakes, and some were probably genuinely unlucky.

This bridge is going to be in the spotlight for years to come, so it would be wise of TICorp to get a handle on things, whether they're fully responsible for it or not.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:27 PM   #49
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They should have heated the whole bridge. Cables and the actual road. We pay so much for the tolls, they should be able to afford it!

Typical Vancouverite response.
Fire them all!

The politicians, the bureaucrats, the engineers - they're all useless. Give me the plans and the keys so I can run the damn bridge myself at a third of their salary!
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:15 AM   #50
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what was wrong with the old bridge?
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